Obama ...........delusional? or just outright deceitful

[Vteckidd]

Last night during his news conference he said something that really just made me go "DID THAT REALLY JUST HAPPEN?"

He said and i QUOTE:

"As a result of the actions we took in those first weeks, we've been able to pull our economy back from the brink,"

The comment was made after he said he had inherited the worst recession since the great depression.

Couple of Key Points:

1) Unemployment was at 7% when Bush Left Office IIRC, Obama passed Stim 1 cause if we didnt, 8% unemployment was going to happen. We are at 9.6% NOW and almost every economist even the FEDERAL RESERVE says we will top out 10% before the year is out.

The administration vowed to use stimulus policies to keep the jobless rate below 8 percent; it is now just shy of 10 percent.


2) Jobless claims have steadily continued to RISE DESPITE Stimulus 1 being passed. This month was 550,000 (50,000 more than expected)

3) As of now, only about 5-8% of the Stimulus money has been SPENT and is actually doing anything. Most economists estimate little to no jobs have been created since it was passed in FEB. The bulk of the money will not be spent until 2010. And this was a STIMULUS that had to be enacted NOW or we were certain for collapse :lame:

[Vteckidd]

Now onto this Healthcare FARCE

I keep hearing 3 lines that REALLY piss me off.

Obama Line 1
"If you like your coverage you can keep it"

That is an OUTRIGHT LIE. If you think for 1 second, that you can keep your existing health coverage under his plan please read up on what is going through congress RIGHT NOW. Here is how simple economics work, SUPPLY, DEMAND. Lets keep it simple shall we:

Lets assume his plan is going to cost you $50 per month. Your CURRENT Employers insurance costs $100 per month. On top of that like he said last night, he wants to TAX YOUR EMPLOYER AKA anyone making over $280,000 a year a surcharge to pay for the extra 1/3 cost of Healthcare he doesnt have in his budget.

Think about that. WHo do you think EMPLOYS YOU? The people making $280,000+. they are the bulk of Small Business. They are getting hit the hardest right now.

So do you really think your EMPLOYER who has these 2 Options A) Pay $50 for health care or half of what you are offering now or B) keep offering twice as expensive healthcare AND add a tax to that price.

HELL NO HE IS GOING TO GO WITH THE CHEAPER OPTION. Which means your coverage WILL CHANGE. It will change to the Government option.

Obama Lie #2
"The Healthcare system is broken and we cannot sustain it any more"

What is so broken about it? do things need to be changed? Absolutely. Changed in 30 days, no. Look they got the economy wrong. We passed a 787 Billion dollar stimulus cause it had to be done then or catastrophe was going to strike, and they were WRONG. He is pushing CAP and TRADE saying "If we dont pass these green jobs then we are in dire circumstances"

See a pattern here? Its Fear mongering plain and simple. Healthcare is expensive, but under him costs will RISE not lessen. YOu cant simply add 47 million people into the system that is ALREADY burdened with shortages in doctors and nurses and expect quality to IMPROVE.

Imagine waiting in line to see the new Star Wars movie (or Harry potter or whatever). YOu are 10 people back in line. All of the sudden 1000 people show up to see the same movie, but the movie theatre only seats 100 people. Movie theatre is your HOSPITAL. Sure before you were standing in line for a marginal wait to get in, now you have to wait HOURS ie MONTHS before you get to see the movie. YOu think its bad now, wait till all those people hit the system at the same time.

DId anyone notice he said he wanted to cover all 47 million people last night. What he didnt tell you is that 10-12 million of those people are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. So we cant find them to kick them out of the country, but we can find them to give them a free benefit paid for by the taxpayers? Genius.

Obama Lie #3
"I dont want to ration healthcare"

He has no choice BUT to ration care. The only way you cut costs in Medical care is
A) DENY TESTS/CARE
B) CUT WAGES IE DRIVE DOCTORS AND NURSES OUT

Look if a man or woman goes to school to be a surgeon, let him make $500,000. Im all for it. But what Obama wants to do is cap their salaries cause "they make too much". Thats going to drive people out of the medical care profession, and that is going to increase your wait time to see a doctor or specialist. I mean if you have 5 people for every doctor now, you really think its going to be better when its 100 people for every doctor?

How are you going to lower costs? He said it last night in plain english. He is going to tell YOU whether you are eligible for a test or not. He wants the medical profession to be more efficient, but since when is Govt been efficient at running ANYTHING?

Last night he said "I want to cut down on the patient going to this doctor, that doctor, getthing this test then that test, then the same test again....."

Obama isnt a doctor, WE PAY DOCTORS TO TAKE CARE OF US, dont we think the majority of them know what tests are needed and what is best for us? Tests arent absolute. Sometimes more tests and Xrays are needed. Sure there is some waste and fraud in there im sure, but thats the cost of doing business.

Fact is your doctor will be hamstrung and have to get approval from Washington DC before doing any major test on you. His pay will be cut drastically. They will tell you how and when to get care. This is how they will "cut waste" or at least that is what they will say. In reality its rationing care.


Obama and his underlings have figured out the 1 thing that matters, how to get votes.

They realize the following:

About 50% of the nations population, DONT PAY ANY TAXES and actually get money back through the EIC every year.

About 25% of the population pay very little to almost none in taxes

About 25% pay 86% of the nations total Income tax burden

Obama has realized (and the dems) that all they need is the bottom 50% which they get through offering entitlements like Free Healthcare and big welfare checks (I say welfare,not tax refunds because these people pay no taxes), and 1/3 of the middle 25% and they win elections. Period.

Hes pandering to an already poor or poorer population. Why should they care what taxes get imposed on the "rich" , its not their problem. Hes also going after the Latino vote by offering illegal immigrants healthcare, and you watch , he will offer them all amnesty soon.


I could go on but i think this is enough for now.

[81911SC]

Deceitful. He knows most of the American public will not look into the facts and that they will more than likely buy what he says. Which is sad but true. /End Metallica

[preferredduck]

my girlfiend had some other interesting points about this plan. you need surgery and there will be a lotto system in place for ti so population control is coming wow everyone thought i was crazy a year ago but alot of the things i have said have come to be. i need to find an asland in the pacific and move there and take animals and crops and get the hell out of dodge while i still can.

[carbon_crash]

I find it completely retarded that Obama wants to cap Dr. salaries "cause they make too much" when pro athletes collect way more and have very little responsibility compared to a doctor

[BanginJimmy]

I find it completely retarded that Obama wants to cap Dr. salaries "cause they make too much"

Should ahve stopped right there to prevent an ignorant statement. It is not the govt's place to cap salaries on anyone but federal employees. This is like my employer telling your employer, who is in the same market, that he can only pay his employee's X dollars a year.

[carbon_crash]

Should ahve stopped right there to prevent an ignorant statement. It is not the govt's place to cap salaries on anyone but federal employees. This is like my employer telling your employer, who is in the same market, that he can only pay his employee's X dollars a year.

So you saying my statement was ignorant? I think it is ridiculous for the govt to limit anyone's pay unless they are your employer. Did you misunderstand what I said originally? I was making an example out of the rather large amounts of $$ pro athletes collect for "entertainment" when Doctors actually serve a purpose and should be entitled to make whatever they want

[preferredduck]

So you saying my statement was ignorant? I think it is ridiculous for the govt to limit anyone's pay unless they are your employer. Did you misunderstand what I said originally? I was making an example out of the rather large amounts of $$ pro athletes collect for "entertainment" when Doctors actually serve a purpose and should be entitled to make whatever they want

i wouldn't let micheal vick operate on me at all, i might have a dog in my ass afterwards!!! LOL i see both of your points, the gov't should only regulate gov't employees pay and not a dr's pay

[BanginJimmy]

So you saying my statement was ignorant? I think it is ridiculous for the govt to limit anyone's pay unless they are your employer. Did you misunderstand what I said originally? I was making an example out of the rather large amounts of $$ pro athletes collect for "entertainment" when Doctors actually serve a purpose and should be entitled to make whatever they want

I didnt misunderstand you, it was an ignorant statement. You are saying that profession A is overpaid and profession B is ok. Your time and skills are worth whatever someone will pay you for them, not a penny less. If you can get someone to pay you 1M a year to bag groceries at Kroger, then that is what you are worth. It doesnt matter that a cashier is only making minimum wage.

[SampaGuy]

Don't all nations strive to diminish the gap between the rich and the poor to expand the middle class? Isn't that exactly what he is doing here? Not saying that its fair. This is directed at the OP.

[SampaGuy]

I didnt misunderstand you, it was an ignorant statement. You are saying that profession A is overpaid and profession B is ok. Your time and skills are worth whatever someone will pay you for them, not a penny less.

Yes, that is the way it should be. But if Mr. Obama doesn't want it that way and we can't do anything about it, shouldn't he at least target athletes and the other overpaid extremes rather than doctors? I think this is carbon_crash's opinion and I don't see anything wrong with it.

[tony]

I didnt misunderstand you, it was an ignorant statement. You are saying that profession A is overpaid and profession B is ok. Your time and skills are worth whatever someone will pay you for them, not a penny less. If you can get someone to pay you 1M a year to bag groceries at Kroger, then that is what you are worth. It doesnt matter that a cashier is only making minimum wage.

If that is the case then Malpractice Lawsuits should not be capped either, you can cap their liability but not their salary? Interesting..

On Obama's plan, its one of those either you're against it or for it. If you're paying $200+ a month for medical insurance I don't see why anyone in that situation would be against reform. As I stated before, other countries rising economically have a universal plan and the healthcare industry is flourishing in those countries. All I can say is I support the universal plan that benefits those who have a harder time affording coverage rather than the current plan where people like myself can afford coverage but those that have lower wages and a larger family cannot.

[Andyc3020]

a doctor cant make 500k a year, but a baseball player can mkae 4 million a year....

who is being paid too much again?


not that it matters. it is supply and demand. it is capitalism. that is how our country is run.

im going to go with deceitful

[Vteckidd]

The problem with the pro sports analogy is that they are making money.

The Auto Industry workers were overpaid, why, because their companies couldnt make a profit. NBA players and NFL, Baseball, they arent overpaid because their teams are making money and can still afford them.

Doctors get paid a different way the majority of them get re-imbursed through insurance claims and other stuff.

Tony, how do you expect to cover 47 million more people when we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses. No other developing nation has the population we do. The only places that have healthcare similar to what Obama and the Dems want is CANADA and France, and we know how bad those places are.

[BanginJimmy]

If that is the case then Malpractice Lawsuits should not be capped either, you can cap their liability but not their salary? Interesting..

Liability and damages are 2 different things. Liability should absolutely be capped while punitive damages should not be. With that said, tort reform is an absolute must if you want to have any shot and bringing healthcare costs down. Every sector of healthcare does excessive testing for nearly every illness because if the standard round of testing misses something, they will probably get sued for malpractice.

On Obama's plan, its one of those either you're against it or for it. If you're paying $200+ a month for medical insurance I don't see why anyone in that situation would be against reform. As I stated before, other countries rising economically have a universal plan and the healthcare industry is flourishing in those countries. All I can say is I support the universal plan that benefits those who have a harder time affording coverage rather than the current plan where people like myself can afford coverage but those that have lower wages and a larger family cannot.

As I have said before, if you are paying less than 300 a month for healthcare you will spend more with socialized healthcare and get lesser care in the process. Taxes will have to go up significantly to pay for this.

Next you will want to say we have a choice right? You could not possibly more wrong. This bill is designed to eliminate private insurance and force everyone onto the govt plan.

If I wasnt married, I wouldnt pay for anything more than a major medical plan that covers anything more than 2k or so. I VERY rarely goto the doc and I can afford a dentist visit every 6 months for less than I pay for insurance. Under the House plan, I would be fined an additional $2500 a year. How do you like that choice?

[Tracy]

Dan is pissed because he will be forced to pay a huge amount for health care for our staff. We will go out of business if we have to do that.

[BanginJimmy]

Dan is pissed because he will be forced to pay a huge amount for health care for our staff. We will go out of business if we have to do that.

He could save money by simply paying the 8% fine.

[Tracy]

He could save money by simply paying the 8% fine.

Oh, I didn't know about that. Ha Ha. I will have to tell him that.

[tony]

Liability and damages are 2 different things. Liability should absolutely be capped while punitive damages should not be. With that said, tort reform is an absolute must if you want to have any shot and bringing healthcare costs down. Every sector of healthcare does excessive testing for nearly every illness because if the standard round of testing misses something, they will probably get sued for malpractice.



As I have said before, if you are paying less than 300 a month for healthcare you will spend more with socialized healthcare and get lesser care in the process. Taxes will have to go up significantly to pay for this.

Next you will want to say we have a choice right? You could not possibly more wrong. This bill is designed to eliminate private insurance and force everyone onto the govt plan.

If I wasnt married, I wouldnt pay for anything more than a major medical plan that covers anything more than 2k or so. I VERY rarely goto the doc and I can afford a dentist visit every 6 months for less than I pay for insurance. Under the House plan, I would be fined an additional $2500 a year. How do you like that choice?

Is it forcing or is it cheaper? As with the case in Hawaii people were not forced to move their children off of the plan they had, they CHOSE to go with the cheaper coverage, Capitalism right? Individuals still have the option to maintain their employer coverage or buy private insurance, nobody is being forced to do anything. Your verbiage sounds like it comes straight from Republican rhetoric rather than actual critical and factual arguments. Is the plan expensive? Yes it is but accomodations can be made (Such as the cut of the F-22 program for example) to better the quality of life of the people in this country.

On average the cost of the Uninsured as it is now is $1,000 per family (Source: https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstr...pdf?sequence=1) so while you may be afraid of the tax burden I'll be relieved that these people will have coverage AND I wont be taking up their uninsured costs any longer.

[tony]

Tony, how do you expect to cover 47 million more people when we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses. No other developing nation has the population we do. The only places that have healthcare similar to what Obama and the Dems want is CANADA and France, and we know how bad those places are.

You just created more jobs in the country, hmm.. not a bad idea considering the unemployment rates.

[Tracy]

My friends in Canada say they love the health care system.

[Vteckidd]

You just created more jobs in the country, hmm.. not a bad idea considering the unemployment rates.

Who will want to be a doctor or nurse now if they are going to make LESS money, and oh by the way, you will be told how to administer care. And guess what doctor/specialist, thanks for your 10 years of hard work through medical school, you know how im going to reward you? Im going to tax you because you make over $280,000 a year to pay for the very people im telling you how to treat.

you realize that many doctors go into business for themselves and hold their own private practices. How are they going to do now that they get told what they will be paid, they will have to ration care, and we are going to raise their taxes?



This will create just as many jobs as the stimulus plan did.

[tony]

My friends in Canada say they love the health care system.

So do those in France, Britain.. their system is not that great but you still get coverage. I assume Dan would be a bit more at ease if he didn't have to worry about covering his employees and they could afford their own coverage.

[Vteckidd]

Dan is pissed because he will be forced to pay a huge amount for health care for our staff. We will go out of business if we have to do that.

So will Mainstream, Topspeed and any other business owner. If you dont provide the healthcare you will be fined. to me that is rediculous.

Healthcare shouldnt be mandated, and if the Govt doesnt know, its the number 1 leading killer of small business. Places with under 10 people employed cannot afford healthcare its too expensive. The answer isnt to MAKE the provide it.

I mean which would Brandon rather have , healthcare or a JOB?

[tony]

Who will want to be a doctor or nurse now if they are going to make LESS money, and oh by the way, you will be told how to administer care. And guess what doctor/specialist, thanks for your 10 years of hard work through medical school, you know how im going to reward you? Im going to tax you because you make over $280,000 a year to pay for the very people im telling you how to treat.

you realize that many doctors go into business for themselves and hold their own private practices. How are they going to do now that they get told what they will be paid, they will have to ration care, and we are going to raise their taxes?



This will create just as many jobs as the stimulus plan did.

Hmm.. a job as a Dr/Specialist making maybe $70k-$90k as opposed to the alternatives out here right now which is next to nothing. Who out here is going to say, nahhh I don't want to be a doctor because I can't make $280k a year?

Its the same people who decide to become teachers for less than $30k a year, firefighters and policemen barely hitting $40k a year. I don't know about you but I didn't join the military for the pay, I did it because it is what I love to do. Trust me, I'd rather have the passionate professional who isn't there for salary as opposed to the one who went through med school to uphold a certain lifestyle.

[81911SC]

I just can't fathom who would support this shit.

[Vteckidd]

My friends in Canada say they love the health care system.

they are in the VAST minority then.

They prob love it because if it didnt exist they would have no care anyway. Its about choice really.

Anyone i have ever talked to in canada, UK say the system is horrible and driving people bankrupt.

These facts DO NOT LIE

The Average waiting between the time patients first saw their family physician and the time they actually got treated is 18.3 weeks. In 1993 in Canada it was 9.3 weeks. Is it reasonable to have to wait 4 months for treatment?

Less than half-44 percent- of all new drugs approved by the Canadian government in 2004 were covered by the govt insurance program. To get them? Over a 1 year wait on AVERAGE.

1.7 Million canadians, about 5 %, couldnt access a family physician in 2007

4 Years ago the average waiting time in a non urgent cardiac surgery in Manitoba was 19 days. Today it is 77 Days

Colon cancer rates are much higher in Canada (6.8 per 100,000) united states is 4. 7 per 100,000. Oh but in Canada the death rate for Colon Cancer is 41%, here its 34%.

Breast Cancer death rates? Higher in canada by 16%

Why? Cause they ration care, and the govt decides how to treat you. It doesnt work, period

[David88vert]

I pay $200 month for excellent health and dental coverage through my employer's plan with Blue Cross/Blue Shield for myself, my wife, and my daughter. Obama's plan will give us much less access to care, more delays, and higher overall cost - and that is a fact.

[Tracy]

they are in the VAST minority then.

They prob love it because if it didnt exist they would have no care anyway. Its about choice really.

Anyone i have ever talked to in canada, UK say the system is horrible and driving people bankrupt.

They are actually millionaires. They own an oil business and have 5 homes in Jamaica...where we hang out when we go.

I think we should come up with something, but I am not educated enough to say what. I only know that if it is done this way, we won't make it. And Brandon would rather have a job.

[Vteckidd]

Hmm.. a job as a Dr/Specialist making maybe $70k-$90k as opposed to the alternatives out here right now which is next to nothing. Who out here is going to say, nahhh I don't want to be a doctor because I can't make $280k a year?

Its the same people who decide to become teachers for less than $30k a year, firefighters and policemen barely hitting $40k a year. I don't know about you but I didn't join the military for the pay, I did it because it is what I love to do. Trust me, I'd rather have the passionate professional who isn't there for salary as opposed to the one who went through med school to uphold a certain lifestyle.

You cannot compare a teacher making 30K a year to a Doctor that makes $280,000 a year tony.

A Dr. Comes out with AVERAGE $200,000 in LOANS he has to pay back. He is not going to go through 10 years of study to make $80,000 a year.

Would you ?

Teacher 4 year degree
Police/Firefighter, no degree 10 month training program

You are going to compare those to what it takes to me a HEART SURGEON? are you serious? Not everyone is going to sit around and sing koombaya because the job market sucks. Doctors deserve a certain amount of pay and respect, they should get it IMO.

The answer to healthcare is not rationing it and lowering wages. That will have the opposite effect on things. The answer is to find ways to lower cost by eliminating waste and fraud.

Look 70 % of america has healthcare RIGHT NOW through their employer or some other means. Of the 47million that dont

12 Million (some say as high as 18-20 million) are illegal immigrants. so take that away.

Whats left are 2 groups of people
1) People who CHOOSE NOT TO HAVE INSURANCE
2) People who cannot afford insurance

Category 1 are usually people mid 20s early 30s with no family, making over $40,000 a year, generally in good health and just see it as an expense. You now want to FORCE them to have coverage

Category 2 are usually middle to low income familes, more than 1 kid, make less than $40,000 a year and they cannot afford private insurance. However, there is care available for their family through the govt, its already provided. The states have programs like ga has Peach Care for children, etc.

So in reality VERY FEW are "not covered"

[BanginJimmy]

Is it forcing or is it cheaper?

The house plan does force people onto the govt option because of costs. First, there is a $2500 fine if you decide you dont want health insurance. Second, a private company is required to pay for health coverage or pay a fine equaling 8% of their payroll. Third, healthcare benefits will be taxed at the corporate income tax rate. Considering those last 2 things, a small to medium sized business is forced to drop their coverage and simply pay the 8% fine as it will be far cheaper.

As with the case in Hawaii people were not forced to move their children off of the plan they had, they CHOSE to go with the cheaper coverage, Capitalism right?

This isnt about competition, it is about using unfair business practices. Hawaii is actually a perfect example. It was designed to cover the kids without insurance, exactly like the house plan is. Instead, everyone moved to the free coverage. According to the Gov of hawaii, 85% of the kids on the plan had insurance before joining the govt one.

Individuals still have the option to maintain their employer coverage or buy private insurance, nobody is being forced to do anything.

Go back to my first response. And if you do decide to keep your own healthcare, you will be forced to pay for both plans instead of just your own.

Your verbiage sounds like it comes straight from Republican rhetoric rather than actual critical and factual arguments.

And yours are just as empty as Obama's talking points. Completely ignore details in favor of talking points and rhetoric. Read the bill. There is nothing in there that will maintain current care standards. There are provisions for an appointed board to determine what coverage levels certain people should get. There is also plenty of talk about heavily reducing a doctor's compensation to reduce costs.

Is the plan expensive? Yes it is but accomodations can be made (Such as the cut of the F-22 program for example) to better the quality of life of the people in this country.

Cutting the f-22 program completely will not pay 1% of the costs of this. All I have heard so far as ways to pay for this is cutting medicare and tax the rich.

On average the cost of the Uninsured as it is now is $1,000 per family (Source: https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstr...pdf?sequence=1) so while you may be afraid of the tax burden I'll be relieved that these people will have coverage AND I wont be taking up their uninsured costs any longer.

Why is it my responsibility to buy someone else's insurance? EVERY group, including the CBO, that has looked at the house plan says it will lower quality and raise costs.

[Vteckidd]

They are actually millionaires. They own an oil business and have 5 homes in Jamaica...where we hang out when we go.

Interesting none the less. But they can prob afford to go somewhere else if they ever got a serious illness.

For instance there was a story of a lady with a Brain Tumor. She needed surgery. Because she was 47, Canada was apprehensive of operating on her. Her survival rate was very low. Canada told her it would be 9-12 months before she could see a SPECIALIST to SCHEDULE her operation.

She fled to the USA, was operated on in 2 months, and she lived. Had she waited 9-12 months in canada she would have died.

thats just 1 story

[Andyc3020]

is all goes back to having rich people pay to take care of poor people

read the bill of rights. i dont see a right to healthcare.

we have equil opertunities, not always equil results.

its so basic. its so simple. so why does obama insist on ignoring these basic values?

[BanginJimmy]

Hmm.. a job as a Dr/Specialist making maybe $70k-$90k as opposed to the alternatives out here right now which is next to nothing. Who out here is going to say, nahhh I don't want to be a doctor because I can't make $280k a year?

Would goto school for 10 years and spend nearly half a million dollars on education related expenses to making 70-90k a year? I know I wouldnt.

Its the same people who decide to become teachers for less than $30k a year, firefighters and policemen barely hitting $40k a year. I don't know about you but I didn't join the military for the pay, I did it because it is what I love to do. Trust me, I'd rather have the passionate professional who isn't there for salary as opposed to the one who went through med school to uphold a certain lifestyle.

A teacher MIGHT have a masters and have 50k in their education. A cop or fireman in GA more than likely have only a HS education and later on get an assoc. or BA.

[Tracy]

is all goes back to having rich people pay to take care of poor people

read the bill of rights. i dont see a right to healthcare.

we have equil opertunities, not always equil results.

its so basic. its so simple. so why does obama insist on ignoring these basic values?

We aren't rich by any means. I can tell you that...but based on our GROSS income, it seems that way. Based on these tax and health care proposals, we are rich.....but will go out of business if any of it happens. So it is def flawed.

[Vteckidd]

We aren't rich by any means. I can tell you that...but based on our GROSS income, it seems that way. Based on these tax and health care proposals, we are rich.....but will go out of business if any of it happens.

thats the point.

You are "rich" because on paper it says some number that is above the "line" that obama says is "too much"

He will raise your taxes, you wil go out of business.

Sounds like the end of the recession to me

[Tracy]

thats the point.

You are "rich" because on paper it says some number that is above the "line" that obama says is "too much"

He will raise your taxes, you wil go out of business.

Sounds like the end of the recession to me

I agree that this isn't the right way, but I feel like the way it is now is not the right way either. It is going to be a long hard road for sure. I'm glad we have friends in Jamaica. It is seeming less and less corrupt by the day if you compare it to the US

[Vteckidd]

Trust me i was scoping things out when i was in the caymans too. I think i could live on a lot less money and be happy

[Tracy]

Trust me i was scoping things out when i was in the caymans too. I think i could live on a lot less money and be happy

It will happen for us. Already in the works

[EJ25RUN]

Plan is BS.

Anyone who supports it will believe whatever lie Obama wants to add to our debt.