So what did ya'll think? I thought obama haded McCain his lunch on the ecconomy but that McCain MIGHT have slightly edged him on the rest.
Thoughts?
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So what did ya'll think? I thought obama haded McCain his lunch on the ecconomy but that McCain MIGHT have slightly edged him on the rest.
Thoughts?
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10Originally Posted by AlanŽ
i thought they were going to pull out baseball bats and start hitting each other.
but honestly i thought both of them were a little misinformed on the topics, especially the foreign policy topics.
They both seem to agree that the conflict in the Caucasus are 1 dimensional black/white good/bad. Which is not true. (Also, McCain said that the Russians put up a poster of Putin, when in fact is was the citizens of the breakaway republic that put the poster up on their own accord.)
They both stumbled a lot.
They both seem to agree that America and friends should be the God-given #1 supreme being on Earth. (and space?)
McCain is right when it comes to nuclear power, its good stuff.
Obama is right when he says we need solar and wind and stuff.
Obama is right about unconditional meetings with foreign leaders. You cant solve problems by alienating and belittling the other guy.
McCain is right when he says get rid of defense market cost-plus strategy, which im sure Obama agrees on cutting in the defense market too. But McCain will most likey cut less, even though we outspend most of the world's countries combined.
Last edited by Spektrewing386; 09-26-2008 at 10:11 PM.
And you know more then them how?
Obama kept interrupting like a damn child.
They both gave extremely indirect answers from the first hour that I saw. I'm also waiting on the Republican uprising on Obama referring to him as "John" instead of "Senator McCain." Nothing either of them could say would get them my approval regardless.
Besides the fact that it was the best flame war I've seen in awhile, MCcain did much better than I thought his old ass would. But in the end, he won one question (the spending cuts one; Obama avoided it.) they essentially said the same thing on a couple questions, but I think Obama won on taxing and foreign policy.
McCain was incredibly rude towards the end of the debate though. Which I personally found rather childish. Who else agrees?
Its called a debate. Not a damn tea party. Besides, both of them did that, as they damn well should have. It was pretty even, and I dont think there was really a clear winner... but unfortunately for McCain, even if he IS declared the winner, I don't think he was strong enough to gain back the momentum hes lost this week, and this debate was his big chance to shine, considering foreign policy is the cornerstone that hes building his whole "experience" schpiel on.
Both did okay and both did better than I thought on their weaknesses. However neither really "Wowed" me or swayed me either way.
I was disappointed with boths answers on the economic situation.
Vossen CV3 20x9 & 20x10.5
Thanks, I thought it was a tea party. Obama's was excessive though. Like a child tugging on his mothers skirt while she ignores him.
Obama's policies render him defenseless on any spending cuts challenge, so that question was McCain's from the beginning, whom I personally agree with on that issue. How bad was it at the end? I only watched the first half, had to get a paper done. I agree on McCain, I thought he was going to look bad but he really didn't at all. Has it swayed me to him, no. But Obama is a no go for me anyway.
well im sure you dont have a preconceived bias that made it seem that way to you, especially considering your neutral, bipartisan sig. either way, im going to disagree with you.
They were both incredibly indirect on the economy issue. The last half of the debate was much better than the first but still kinda indirect.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
Agree to disagree.
exactly
Yea, both extended their answers to the clouds in pretty much every response in the part I saw. Still, I thought both handled themselves pretty well. Their was mutual ownage going down, and that surprised me.
honestly i think both were weak on current economics probably due to the fact that they are still negotiations.
mccain was supposed to shine tonight and he didn't do it. i know it was mentioned about earmarks/spending yet obama held his tongue on bashing mccain for asking palin to join him in his race. alaska had more earmarks per capita than any other state in the nation. mccain also followed up w/ saying he would propose a spending FREEZE except for the war. sorry but he is out of touch. americans are in disbelief over the war. they are tired of it and want to see the focus on our economy.
call me bias that is how things went down w/ mccain. b!tching about obama calling him John - who gives a f*ck? it is not worse then mccain saying over and over obama doesn't understand. it sounded like he was scolding a child.
neither did great but mccain was set to win and he didn't clearly do that. mccain ran on his history and obama on policy/defending himself. polls are coming out as of now saying they think obama was stronger.
furthermore i think the time spent on talking to iran w/ conditions... it hasn't worked in the past 8 years and saying they are threat yet you won't talk to them is just dumb.
Agreed. But something I found disheartening by both was when asked what they would cut if they had was that they both seemed unwilling to do that.
Agreed again. 2 things though:mccain was supposed to shine tonight and he didn't do it. i know it was mentioned about earmarks/spending yet obama held his tongue on bashing mccain for asking palin to join him in his race. alaska had more earmarks per capita than any other state in the nation. mccain also followed up w/ saying he would propose a spending FREEZE except for the war. sorry but he is out of touch. americans are in disbelief over the war. they are tired of it and want to see the focus on our economy.
1. If Obama had decided to make that accusation it would have been just as easy for McCain to say while you are campainging on supposed "new politics" yet has a VP pick who is the 2nd or 3rd oldest member of congress
2.McCain said military not the war. While I agree with you that people are tired of the war I agree with McCain that not finishing the job or succeeding there will cause a much greater problem than we could possibly imagine. I also l liked the fact that he made the same argument I have been making for the past two years that what we did in Afghanistan in the 70's has had a major impact on the world we live in today and that we cannot repeat that mistake.
LOL x2 on the bitching about the name thing. Who cares. But I think that by sounding slightly condescending to Obama may have actually worked in his favor. It was risky but I think it worked.call me bias that is how things went down w/ mccain. b!tching about obama calling him John - who gives a f*ck? it is not worse then mccain saying over and over obama doesn't understand. it sounded like he was scolding a child.
I really believe that this Debate was a draw. I think the polls will reflect this for the most part simply because like you said McCain was expected to walk away with this. But Obama proved that he is much more savy on this than most would think but at the same time also proved he has a long way to go.neither did great but mccain was set to win and he didn't clearly do that. mccain ran on his history and obama on policy/defending himself. polls are coming out as of now saying they think obama was stronger.
My take on this is that the two of them really seemed to have a key disagreement on the definition of pre-conditions. I think that like Obama said we need more PREPREATION(not preconditions which seemed to be his definition of the term)to lead up to major talks with people like Chavez, Ahmedinijad, etc. But when it comes specifically to Iran I really don't see any chance of talks with them really succeeding.furthermore i think the time spent on talking to iran w/ conditions... it hasn't worked in the past 8 years and saying they are threat yet you won't talk to them is just dumb.
I'm going to say this and I can't believe I am doing this but Obama really had me going there for awhile and then somewhere along the line he lost me.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
BTW It's on again for those that may have missed ANY part of it.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
yes but mccain can't go there either he has been doing OLD POLIITICS for over 25 years... the whole issue is a political spin. mccain went for it and obama didn't counter. +1 mccain - obama should of challenged better on that. he did i think score points addressing middle income america and mccain never even touched upon them. +1 obama
military spending includes the war - read between the lines2.McCain said military not the war. While I agree with you that people are tired of the war I agree with McCain that not finishing the job or succeeding there will cause a much greater problem than we could possibly imagine. I also l liked the fact that he made the same argument I have been making for the past two years that what we did in Afghanistan in the 70's has had a major impact on the world we live in today and that we cannot repeat that mistake.
we dont' know if talks w/ iran will or will not work yet b/c we have refused them so far... i don't think either shined completely tonight but this was the debate that should of been mccains strong point and his to win in the polls. he is down by double digits. he didn't do it.
i'm sorry but i think the worst is to come for reps next week w/ palin vs biden. if couric/gibson interviews were what is to come palin stands no chance in this type of debate w/ biden.
You're right and I think that it's exactly why he didn't. McCain to me failed on the economic discussion because he really does have several good points and he simply failed to bring them up. I think part of why Obama took the lead in the debate was because he was willing to attack him early. It seemed to me that it took McCain a minute to work up the nerve to go after him effectively.
I realize that but the war in Iraq is nearing a close. And soon we will bea able to do what Obama wants and go back and focus on Afghanistan, which I agree with him on.military spending includes the war - read between the lines
I agree with you. The only poll that I have seen showing him ahead based on who won the debate in the double digits is CNN's. Go figure.we dont' know if talks w/ iran will or will not work yet b/c we have refused them so far... i don't think either shined completely tonight but this was the debate that should of been mccains strong point and his to win in the polls. he is down by double digits. he didn't do it.
I'm hoping that we will be having this exact same discussion next week. I think that Palin will surprised Biden.i'm sorry but i think the worst is to come for reps next week w/ palin vs biden. if couric/gibson interviews were what is to come palin stands no chance in this type of debate w/ biden.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
i was alittle lost when mcCain was talkin about people in korea being 3-4 inches shorter...lol
it must be just me, but i think they both addressed the economic issue to the best of their knowledge. the current idea/bill hasn't been set in stone yet, so neither of them could really give a definitive answer as to how it will change their policies. they've planned and fine tuned these policies on a daily basis, for a long time. within the past couple of days, a major monkey wrench has been tossed into the game.
aside from that, i would've loved to see a few harder attacks (specifically, from obama). i caught myself yelling at the tv on more than one occassion. one thing that i've noticed with mccain (as well as with his supporters) is that he doesn't fully know AND understand obama's policies...."know thy enemy."
lol, i like how obama brought up the fact that mccain has been supporting bush policies for the past 8 yrs, and mccain's only response was ".....i'm a maverick....and i've got a good partner that's a maverick too....*smile*" mccain did get him pretty good with the earmarks/spending issue. all in all though, it was a fairly decent debate, nothing too great.
after hearing biden's comments about the debate, i'm scared for palin. that dude is BRUTAL!
Yea I wentWTF. I see what he was getting at but it ws a dumb way to convey his point.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
Yea I went
lol he was saying some weird things all nite..
it means they suffer from malnutrition.
Did you guys watch, the discussions after the debate. They were talking about commonly used lines by both senators: Obama - "JOHN" "Mccain is right"
Mccain "He doesn't understand"
It is so interesting to see people break those down and it's clear why both parties used the terms they used, but it's always open to interpretation.
I think the both shined in their "Areas of Expertise," however Obama surely didn't seem inexperienced when it comes to the war, and spoke more cleary about his economic policies and how they'd affect the middle class.
Mccain did a great job @ stressing his experience and personal interactions regarding the war when he spoke about visits and prior war strategies. I expected Obama to be somewhat "over-shined" in terms of foreign policy but his firmness was strong.
The attacks got nasty at times, whether direct or indirect but they both were swift on their feet.
Someone had a clear edge in this one.
Exactly, people want a resolution and they want it NOW but that's clearly not possible and will take time. Neither of them want to jump the gun with some pseudo-plan only to be blamed for it later. The most they can do is take a step and I don't even think they are firm on what the first step is.
Exactly. but i think Asians might be offended.
Leisa and S. 4 Life NM?
I was going to post this same thing. Dude's posting as if he's in the middle of all political affairs personally. Later, QD.
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I watched the whole thing, my impression;
With McCain being down in the polls he needed to really establish himself last night. Foreign Policy is McCain's strong point and while he was solid, he didnt knock it out of the park. I do have that much more respect for him for his performance.
Obama, I've watched him debate since the primaries started. If you have followed Obama last night was an 8 out of 10.. he's come a LONG way. But he's playing on a big stage now and McCain is no pushover. I personally liked how Obama did go after McCain on issues and if he didnt go after him.. he at least went toe to toe.
McCains last line on him being ready on day one was strong, very strong (albeit right out of the Clinton handbook) and Obama just didnt have a response as it pertained to experience. The bad thing about this for the McCain campaign is that Palin has that same problem but she hasn't done 32 debates like Obama. As good as Obama was last night he absolutely SUCKED at debating when all this started (frustrated the hell out of me) there has been a learning curve, Palin hasnt had that and god bless her when she gets on the stage.
I think both sides sucked. Obama still never directly answers a question he was long winded at times. Call me crazy but he kept interrupting and saying "not true" and "john" I think that was a strategy to piss mccain off and it didn't work. It was a ploy to make them seem as equals or friends to make obama appear on the same level.
I think to the average (dumb) voter obama was the winner because most of them don't have a brain to think for themselves. Obama made his case to the handout crowd and that will resonate with them
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I'm hardly "dumb," Mike. I thought you knew. Later, QD.
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lol boy you are a funny guy.... most people have enough respect for other peoples opinion not to say simple minded ignorant BS like that.. But you just cant help it i see... Go back to not posting please!
I think that McCain could have come away from this a lot stronger than he did if he had just stepped up in the beginning of the debate and directly adressed the issues the Obama called him out on. Obama kept saying 95% of Americans will get a tax cut. McCain should have countered that with "That's all well and good but under my plan EVERYONE will get a tax cut". When he got attacked about corporations exploiting loop holes in the tax code he should have countered that its suffocating small businesses more than large corporations.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
i think someone's pu$$y hurts... sorry but your boy didn't do that great and his political show this week trying to delay not only the bailout but the debates back fired. he still had to show up and he didn't hit any home runs.
rep supporters like yourself must be equally dumb if you think otherwise.
What defines a winner? Just because there isn't a knockout doesn't mean someone did not win, sometimes simply keeping the other team from scoring means victory.
McCain is down in the polls, he had much to lose if he didn't make a strong presence last night and he did not. Obama simply had to keep things even because in doing so he still holds his position.. Obama did that so technically the victory goes to him.
Look, Obama had this exact same strategy with Hillary and while it annoyed the hell out of Obama supporters that he doesn't attack aggressively.. in the end slow and steady won the race. Obama's strategy is to get a lead in the polls early and then maintain, he does it well.
exactly - if he gets too aggressive undecided voters may get turned off. keep composure and work through the debates stating flaws in ideas/policies
all you sheep can keep believing that increasing spending 800 billion and cutting taxes is going to work. Obama had no answers last night period. It was all generalizations
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bahhh but running on against earmarks yet choosing the governor w/ the most is... maybe he should make palin "famous" since he said he would do that to pork spending. how about no tax breaks for america? when i mean america i mean the majority which is 95%
As much as I hate to say this, he does have a point. I stayed up till like 2 and watched it again on my least favorite network CNN, at the bottom of the screen they showed the crowed reactions from Republicans, Democrats, and Independents and everytime Obama began to talk about his new federal programs the Dem and Independent reactions went through the roof. And that's something I don't agree with.
The government has proven time and again that it can't manage anything well. We need to make government smaller. But at thje same time we need to correct our mistakes and regulate areas that have had lax restrictions and where it the lack of regulation and enforcment has been grosely been taken advantage of
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
What the hell are you talking about. It has already been shown that under both presidents that every one will see a tax decrease. Only under Obama the people that are already paying the most will be paying more.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
sorry let me clarify the tax decrease between the two is significantly different for the under 250k. obamas tax plan is designed around the majority of america and mccain hasn't considered helping those who truly under financial burden. which is 95% of america and that is the majority of consumers.
regulations = govtThe government has proven time and again that it can't manage anything well. We need to make government smaller. But at thje same time we need to correct our mistakes and regulate areas that have had lax restrictions and where it the lack of regulation and enforcment has been grosely been taken advantage of
sorry but we need more gov in the corp market. the lack of has got us here. mccain himself is even on the record stating such even though he is trying to run on a smaller gov platform
You know what if he would consider dropping the Corporate tax rate 5-15% then i would seriously consider voting for him. I don't see it happening but it's somehting that needs to be addressed. It's crazy high.
See i'm not a mindless repub sheep
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
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