So what did ya'll think? I thought obama haded McCain his lunch on the ecconomy but that McCain MIGHT have slightly edged him on the rest.
Thoughts?
THE OFFICIAL DEBATE THREAD
So what did ya'll think? I thought obama haded McCain his lunch on the ecconomy but that McCain MIGHT have slightly edged him on the rest.
Thoughts?
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10Originally Posted by AlanŽ
i thought they were going to pull out baseball bats and start hitting each other.
but honestly i thought both of them were a little misinformed on the topics, especially the foreign policy topics.
They both seem to agree that the conflict in the Caucasus are 1 dimensional black/white good/bad. Which is not true. (Also, McCain said that the Russians put up a poster of Putin, when in fact is was the citizens of the breakaway republic that put the poster up on their own accord.)
They both stumbled a lot.
They both seem to agree that America and friends should be the God-given #1 supreme being on Earth. (and space?)
McCain is right when it comes to nuclear power, its good stuff.
Obama is right when he says we need solar and wind and stuff.
Obama is right about unconditional meetings with foreign leaders. You cant solve problems by alienating and belittling the other guy.
McCain is right when he says get rid of defense market cost-plus strategy, which im sure Obama agrees on cutting in the defense market too. But McCain will most likey cut less, even though we outspend most of the world's countries combined.
Last edited by Spektrewing386; 09-26-2008 at 10:11 PM.
And you know more then them how?
Obama kept interrupting like a damn child.
I was going to post this same thing. Dude's posting as if he's in the middle of all political affairs personally. Later, QD.
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They both gave extremely indirect answers from the first hour that I saw. I'm also waiting on the Republican uprising on Obama referring to him as "John" instead of "Senator McCain." Nothing either of them could say would get them my approval regardless.
Besides the fact that it was the best flame war I've seen in awhile, MCcain did much better than I thought his old ass would. But in the end, he won one question (the spending cuts one; Obama avoided it.) they essentially said the same thing on a couple questions, but I think Obama won on taxing and foreign policy.
McCain was incredibly rude towards the end of the debate though. Which I personally found rather childish. Who else agrees?
Obama's policies render him defenseless on any spending cuts challenge, so that question was McCain's from the beginning, whom I personally agree with on that issue. How bad was it at the end? I only watched the first half, had to get a paper done. I agree on McCain, I thought he was going to look bad but he really didn't at all. Has it swayed me to him, no. But Obama is a no go for me anyway.
They were both incredibly indirect on the economy issue. The last half of the debate was much better than the first but still kinda indirect.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
Yea, both extended their answers to the clouds in pretty much every response in the part I saw. Still, I thought both handled themselves pretty well. Their was mutual ownage going down, and that surprised me.
Its called a debate. Not a damn tea party. Besides, both of them did that, as they damn well should have. It was pretty even, and I dont think there was really a clear winner... but unfortunately for McCain, even if he IS declared the winner, I don't think he was strong enough to gain back the momentum hes lost this week, and this debate was his big chance to shine, considering foreign policy is the cornerstone that hes building his whole "experience" schpiel on.
Thanks, I thought it was a tea party. Obama's was excessive though. Like a child tugging on his mothers skirt while she ignores him.
well im sure you dont have a preconceived bias that made it seem that way to you, especially considering your neutral, bipartisan sig. either way, im going to disagree with you.
Agree to disagree.
Both did okay and both did better than I thought on their weaknesses. However neither really "Wowed" me or swayed me either way.
I was disappointed with boths answers on the economic situation.
Vossen CV3 20x9 & 20x10.5
exactly
honestly i think both were weak on current economics probably due to the fact that they are still negotiations.
mccain was supposed to shine tonight and he didn't do it. i know it was mentioned about earmarks/spending yet obama held his tongue on bashing mccain for asking palin to join him in his race. alaska had more earmarks per capita than any other state in the nation. mccain also followed up w/ saying he would propose a spending FREEZE except for the war. sorry but he is out of touch. americans are in disbelief over the war. they are tired of it and want to see the focus on our economy.
call me bias that is how things went down w/ mccain. b!tching about obama calling him John - who gives a f*ck? it is not worse then mccain saying over and over obama doesn't understand. it sounded like he was scolding a child.
neither did great but mccain was set to win and he didn't clearly do that. mccain ran on his history and obama on policy/defending himself. polls are coming out as of now saying they think obama was stronger.
furthermore i think the time spent on talking to iran w/ conditions... it hasn't worked in the past 8 years and saying they are threat yet you won't talk to them is just dumb.
Agreed. But something I found disheartening by both was when asked what they would cut if they had was that they both seemed unwilling to do that.
Agreed again. 2 things though:mccain was supposed to shine tonight and he didn't do it. i know it was mentioned about earmarks/spending yet obama held his tongue on bashing mccain for asking palin to join him in his race. alaska had more earmarks per capita than any other state in the nation. mccain also followed up w/ saying he would propose a spending FREEZE except for the war. sorry but he is out of touch. americans are in disbelief over the war. they are tired of it and want to see the focus on our economy.
1. If Obama had decided to make that accusation it would have been just as easy for McCain to say while you are campainging on supposed "new politics" yet has a VP pick who is the 2nd or 3rd oldest member of congress
2.McCain said military not the war. While I agree with you that people are tired of the war I agree with McCain that not finishing the job or succeeding there will cause a much greater problem than we could possibly imagine. I also l liked the fact that he made the same argument I have been making for the past two years that what we did in Afghanistan in the 70's has had a major impact on the world we live in today and that we cannot repeat that mistake.
LOL x2 on the bitching about the name thing. Who cares. But I think that by sounding slightly condescending to Obama may have actually worked in his favor. It was risky but I think it worked.call me bias that is how things went down w/ mccain. b!tching about obama calling him John - who gives a f*ck? it is not worse then mccain saying over and over obama doesn't understand. it sounded like he was scolding a child.
I really believe that this Debate was a draw. I think the polls will reflect this for the most part simply because like you said McCain was expected to walk away with this. But Obama proved that he is much more savy on this than most would think but at the same time also proved he has a long way to go.neither did great but mccain was set to win and he didn't clearly do that. mccain ran on his history and obama on policy/defending himself. polls are coming out as of now saying they think obama was stronger.
My take on this is that the two of them really seemed to have a key disagreement on the definition of pre-conditions. I think that like Obama said we need more PREPREATION(not preconditions which seemed to be his definition of the term)to lead up to major talks with people like Chavez, Ahmedinijad, etc. But when it comes specifically to Iran I really don't see any chance of talks with them really succeeding.furthermore i think the time spent on talking to iran w/ conditions... it hasn't worked in the past 8 years and saying they are threat yet you won't talk to them is just dumb.
I'm going to say this and I can't believe I am doing this but Obama really had me going there for awhile and then somewhere along the line he lost me.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
yes but mccain can't go there either he has been doing OLD POLIITICS for over 25 years... the whole issue is a political spin. mccain went for it and obama didn't counter. +1 mccain - obama should of challenged better on that. he did i think score points addressing middle income america and mccain never even touched upon them. +1 obama
military spending includes the war - read between the lines2.McCain said military not the war. While I agree with you that people are tired of the war I agree with McCain that not finishing the job or succeeding there will cause a much greater problem than we could possibly imagine. I also l liked the fact that he made the same argument I have been making for the past two years that what we did in Afghanistan in the 70's has had a major impact on the world we live in today and that we cannot repeat that mistake.
we dont' know if talks w/ iran will or will not work yet b/c we have refused them so far... i don't think either shined completely tonight but this was the debate that should of been mccains strong point and his to win in the polls. he is down by double digits. he didn't do it.
i'm sorry but i think the worst is to come for reps next week w/ palin vs biden. if couric/gibson interviews were what is to come palin stands no chance in this type of debate w/ biden.
You're right and I think that it's exactly why he didn't. McCain to me failed on the economic discussion because he really does have several good points and he simply failed to bring them up. I think part of why Obama took the lead in the debate was because he was willing to attack him early. It seemed to me that it took McCain a minute to work up the nerve to go after him effectively.
I realize that but the war in Iraq is nearing a close. And soon we will bea able to do what Obama wants and go back and focus on Afghanistan, which I agree with him on.military spending includes the war - read between the lines
I agree with you. The only poll that I have seen showing him ahead based on who won the debate in the double digits is CNN's. Go figure.we dont' know if talks w/ iran will or will not work yet b/c we have refused them so far... i don't think either shined completely tonight but this was the debate that should of been mccains strong point and his to win in the polls. he is down by double digits. he didn't do it.
I'm hoping that we will be having this exact same discussion next week. I think that Palin will surprised Biden.i'm sorry but i think the worst is to come for reps next week w/ palin vs biden. if couric/gibson interviews were what is to come palin stands no chance in this type of debate w/ biden.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
BTW It's on again for those that may have missed ANY part of it.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
i was alittle lost when mcCain was talkin about people in korea being 3-4 inches shorter...lol
Yea I wentWTF. I see what he was getting at but it ws a dumb way to convey his point.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
Yea I went
lol he was saying some weird things all nite..
it must be just me, but i think they both addressed the economic issue to the best of their knowledge. the current idea/bill hasn't been set in stone yet, so neither of them could really give a definitive answer as to how it will change their policies. they've planned and fine tuned these policies on a daily basis, for a long time. within the past couple of days, a major monkey wrench has been tossed into the game.
aside from that, i would've loved to see a few harder attacks (specifically, from obama). i caught myself yelling at the tv on more than one occassion. one thing that i've noticed with mccain (as well as with his supporters) is that he doesn't fully know AND understand obama's policies...."know thy enemy."
lol, i like how obama brought up the fact that mccain has been supporting bush policies for the past 8 yrs, and mccain's only response was ".....i'm a maverick....and i've got a good partner that's a maverick too....*smile*" mccain did get him pretty good with the earmarks/spending issue. all in all though, it was a fairly decent debate, nothing too great.
after hearing biden's comments about the debate, i'm scared for palin. that dude is BRUTAL!
all you sheep can keep believing that increasing spending 800 billion and cutting taxes is going to work. Obama had no answers last night period. It was all generalizations
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bahhh but running on against earmarks yet choosing the governor w/ the most is... maybe he should make palin "famous" since he said he would do that to pork spending. how about no tax breaks for america? when i mean america i mean the majority which is 95%
What the hell are you talking about. It has already been shown that under both presidents that every one will see a tax decrease. Only under Obama the people that are already paying the most will be paying more.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
sorry let me clarify the tax decrease between the two is significantly different for the under 250k. obamas tax plan is designed around the majority of america and mccain hasn't considered helping those who truly under financial burden. which is 95% of america and that is the majority of consumers.
regulations = govtThe government has proven time and again that it can't manage anything well. We need to make government smaller. But at thje same time we need to correct our mistakes and regulate areas that have had lax restrictions and where it the lack of regulation and enforcment has been grosely been taken advantage of
sorry but we need more gov in the corp market. the lack of has got us here. mccain himself is even on the record stating such even though he is trying to run on a smaller gov platform
Again this demonstrates how little you know, and i mean that respectfully. Paul REALY go look at the Taxes thread, unless i missed something you are completely wrong and are making this up, NO TAX CUTS for Middle America? are you serious?
Whatever you say that is two faced and hypocritical about Mccain choosing Palin, ill say the same thing about Obama.
Obama is running on the CHANGE THE OLD BOY NETWORK, and the NEW POLITICS IN WASHINGTON and he chooses a 30 year CAREER SENATOR WHO HAS NEVER CROSSED PARTY LINES AND IS THE EPITOME OF "OLD WASHINGTON"
POT CALLING KETTLE.....
Mccain has proposed TAX BREAKS FOR EVERYONE ACROSS THE BOARD. GO LOOK AT HIS PROPOSAL, no tax breaks for 95% of America? are you insane?
His just benefit the people that
A) PAY THE MOST TAXES
B) CREATE THE MOST JOBS
But they CERTAINLY do lower the middle classes taxes as well.
how about this, OBAMA wants to let the BUSH TAX CUTS EXPIRE! Tax cuts that were designed for people in the middle class!
So lets be rational, hes going to let TAX CUTS EXPIRE so your TAX RATES GO UP, then he will propose a TAX CUT ON TOP OF THAT. So lets not sit here and lie to ourselves.
Hes going to INCREASE SPENDING BY 800 BILLION, YET LOWER TAXES! Come on Paul, so how do you increase spending but lower taxes an that wil jump start the economy? Even last night he was cornered and he said "some things may not be able to be done right away or they wil be put on hold" so hes already setting himself up .
Pulling out of IRAQ is only 120 billion a year, wheres the other 680 BILLION going to come from? Taxing the Rich? gimme a break
Yes Obama stated last night that he thinks the way to grow the economy is to do it from the bottom up. That is his opinion and i think he is wrong, Carter proved that, but i digress.
I never said people that are VOting for OBAMA are dumb, i never called anyone in this thread dumb, i said the AVERAGE AMERICAN VOTER IS DUMB. which IMO is a true statement because they are too lazy to think for themselves.
LOL at you people thinking i was calling you dumb, little pretentious of you gus.
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Are u a middle class???
here is what really happened w/ your bush tax cuts... who is in denial?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080913/ap_on_el_pr/mccainBush promised that his tax cuts would create jobs, but they didn't. A conservative-dominated Congress enacted two sets of Bush tax cuts, in 2001 and 2003. Job creation was a major Bush selling point, especially in 2003, when the administration asserted that the tax cuts would create 5.5 million jobs from July 2003 through the end of 2004. Instead, only 2.4 million jobs were added during that period1.7 million fewer jobs than the economy was expected to produce without any tax cuts. [Center for American Progress] Today, the impact of the Bush tax program is clear: 8.5 million Americans are unemployed2.5 million more than when Bush took office. [Joint Economic Committee]
Bush promised that his tax cuts would pay for themselves, but they didn't. Conservatives persistently repeat the myth that, as Bush put it, "You cut taxes, and the tax revenues increase," or as John McCain declared in March, "tax cuts as we all know, increase revenues." But as Time magazine reported, "Virtually every economics Ph.D. who has worked in a prominent role in the Bush Administration acknowledges that the tax cuts enacted during the past six years have not paid for themselvesand were never intended to." [Time] In fact, Bush took office with a $236 billion surplus and will leave with a 2008 deficit of more than $400 billion. [The New York Times] The Bush tax cuts, which cost $300 billion last year alone, are primarily responsible for that deficit. [Center for Budget and Policy Priorities]
Bush promised that his tax cuts would help the middle class, but they didn't. During the 2000 campaign, Bush said his tax cuts focus "on low- and moderate-income families," and would provide the "greatest help for those most in need." [The New York Times] But in fact, the Bush tax cuts gave an average tax break of $118,000 to those who make over $1 million per year and only $740 per year to middle-income households. The bottom 20 percent of households received an average tax break of only $20. [CBPP]
Alan Greenspan says the country can't afford tax cuts of the magnitude proposed by Republican presidential contender John McCain...eliminating congressional earmark spending estimated at $17 billion annually cannot offset McCain's proposed tax cuts.
"That's a huge amount of money, but it's not even a drop in the bucket to pay for $3.5 trillion in tax cuts," she said. "So, every time he throws up earmarks and he's asked how he's going to pay for it, he knows he's being disingenuous, he knows he's not being forthcoming."
Hold up. I have watch this last night with 3 of my uncles and we was on this.
Mccain could not really answer questions. He goes off talking just runing his mouth.Mccain said some facts but Obama drilled him the whole time.
Its was funny how Mccain just goes off talking bout other ****
Then ive heard that Bush was holding a meeting at D.C
on the day of the Debate. So Mccain wanted to cancal the debate
Obama says no its only 1 and 30 mins. Bush could have hold this meeting 2 weeks ago.
Last edited by Mr.Big; 09-27-2008 at 04:34 PM.
Wow wait a tick have you not been paying attention to what happened this week?
Wednesday McCain came out and put his campaign on hold. Later that night Bush calls Obama and asks him to come to meeting at the White House. Thursday meeting takes place and Dems come out and blame McCain for backwards step during meeting.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
Wow wait a tick have you not been paying attention to what happened this week?
Wednesday McCain came out and put his campaign on hold. Later that night Bush calls Obama and asks him to come to meeting at the White House. Thursday meeting takes place and Dems come out and blame McCain for backwards step during meeting
that might be true i dont know
it means they suffer from malnutrition.
Did you guys watch, the discussions after the debate. They were talking about commonly used lines by both senators: Obama - "JOHN" "Mccain is right"
Mccain "He doesn't understand"
It is so interesting to see people break those down and it's clear why both parties used the terms they used, but it's always open to interpretation.
I think the both shined in their "Areas of Expertise," however Obama surely didn't seem inexperienced when it comes to the war, and spoke more cleary about his economic policies and how they'd affect the middle class.
Mccain did a great job @ stressing his experience and personal interactions regarding the war when he spoke about visits and prior war strategies. I expected Obama to be somewhat "over-shined" in terms of foreign policy but his firmness was strong.
The attacks got nasty at times, whether direct or indirect but they both were swift on their feet.
Someone had a clear edge in this one.
Exactly, people want a resolution and they want it NOW but that's clearly not possible and will take time. Neither of them want to jump the gun with some pseudo-plan only to be blamed for it later. The most they can do is take a step and I don't even think they are firm on what the first step is.
Exactly. but i think Asians might be offended.
Leisa and S. 4 Life NM?
I watched the whole thing, my impression;
With McCain being down in the polls he needed to really establish himself last night. Foreign Policy is McCain's strong point and while he was solid, he didnt knock it out of the park. I do have that much more respect for him for his performance.
Obama, I've watched him debate since the primaries started. If you have followed Obama last night was an 8 out of 10.. he's come a LONG way. But he's playing on a big stage now and McCain is no pushover. I personally liked how Obama did go after McCain on issues and if he didnt go after him.. he at least went toe to toe.
McCains last line on him being ready on day one was strong, very strong (albeit right out of the Clinton handbook) and Obama just didnt have a response as it pertained to experience. The bad thing about this for the McCain campaign is that Palin has that same problem but she hasn't done 32 debates like Obama. As good as Obama was last night he absolutely SUCKED at debating when all this started (frustrated the hell out of me) there has been a learning curve, Palin hasnt had that and god bless her when she gets on the stage.
I think both sides sucked. Obama still never directly answers a question he was long winded at times. Call me crazy but he kept interrupting and saying "not true" and "john" I think that was a strategy to piss mccain off and it didn't work. It was a ploy to make them seem as equals or friends to make obama appear on the same level.
I think to the average (dumb) voter obama was the winner because most of them don't have a brain to think for themselves. Obama made his case to the handout crowd and that will resonate with them
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I'm hardly "dumb," Mike. I thought you knew. Later, QD.
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lol boy you are a funny guy.... most people have enough respect for other peoples opinion not to say simple minded ignorant BS like that.. But you just cant help it i see... Go back to not posting please!
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