KEEP IT SIMPLE, Vteckidds Guide to NA

[slowdsm]

I don't see how all motor guys on ia are serious about going fast and quick when no one has anything over 250hp. Unless their there are some forks that are incognito. This 2010. Go big or go toyata prius.

Vteckidd, I think these dudes need to come to you and break some whole wheat bread with you. They need to get those aluminum rods or titanium rods. Their are actually a forge steel rods that is as light as titanium. They need a butcher crank ffwd. They need behives spring so they can run a smaller retainer. They need to send their heads to endyn and have the combustion chamber welded. They need to drop some money for your header.

[all-mota]

I don't see how all motor guys on ia are serious about going fast and quick when no one has anything over 250hp. Unless their there are some forks that are incognito. This 2010. Go big or go toyata prius.

Vteckidd, I think these dudes need to come to you and break some whole wheat bread with you. They need to get those aluminum rods or titanium rods. Their are actually a forge steel rods that is as light as titanium. They need a butcher crank ffwd. They need behives spring so they can run a smaller retainer. They need to send their heads to endyn and have the combustion chamber welded. They need to drop some money for your header.

lol where you been man thats old shit. and my car makes plenty of power on pump gas, but i guess i'm incognito.

you don't need aluminum rods or any of the stuff you just said to make power my setup is simple and can be replicated all day long in fact i will have a new one in the works here soon to make even more, i'll be sure to post the graphs and the setup.

[turbomirage]

^^^ How much power are you making now with your current set-up?

[slowdsm]

lol where you been man thats old shit. and my car makes plenty of power on pump gas, but i guess i'm incognito.

you don't need aluminum rods or any of the stuff you just said to make power my setup is simple and can be replicated all day long in fact i will have a new one in the works here soon to make even more, i'll be sure to post the graphs and the setup.

How much is plenty?

Every gram matter in a n/a set up when you are working with small displacement. I know most n/a guys leave some room to make excuses when they lose a race. I know it is not the money issue because there is nothing cheap about a vtec b series or k series. It just senseless build a na setup with with heavy ass parts. Next time you get vteckidd to build you an na set don't tell him you want some weak apple sauce 175hp or even 200hp setup. Tell him you will bust your ass at work and you are going to give him some real money because you want 300hp+ from your b series. Anything less is unacceptable. This is 2010. Support the economy. Get the good parts if you insist on running na.

[Vteckidd]

How much is plenty?

Every gram matter in a n/a set up when you are working with small displacement. I know most n/a guys leave some room to make excuses when they lose a race. I know it is not the money issue because there is nothing cheap about a vtec b series or k series. It just senseless build a na setup with with heavy ass parts. Next time you get vteckidd to build you an na set don't tell him you want some weak apple sauce 175hp or even 200hp setup. Tell him you will bust your ass at work and you are going to give him some real money because you want 300hp+ from your b series. Anything less is unacceptable. This is 2010. Support the economy. Get the good parts if you insist on running na.

this is the most retarded statement ever.

Its NEVER about how much money you spend, its about the entire package working together. Sure you can pick up 3-4hp from running $1500 rods over $300 eagles, but how many people on this board are going to do that?

You miss the entire point of this thread. This was my KEEP IT SIMPLE GUIDE TO NA.

This thread is for your average to medium built motors for guys running STREET ENGINES. The shit you are talking about is for all out race engines, and if someone is building that kind of motor they arent coming to IA for advice.

I have made MORE POWER with OFF THE SHELF parts that almost anyone in GA, so has All-MOTA. Both of us have had engines break the 230+whp mark with OFF THE SHELF PARTS. Stuff that everyone can use an afford.

You AVERAGE street engine is fine with Eagles, CPs, Wisecos, Minimal port work, etc. You are talking about welding combustion chambers when there is stuff you can do WAY EASIER than than to up your compression SAFELY.

How much power have your setups made? 300whp out of a B Series? GImme a break kid thats only been done about 5 times in the world.

THESE GUYS ARENT BUILDING THOSE KIND OF MOTORS. This thread is for guys building 190-220whp engines with minimal money. Its about spending money in the RIGHT AREAS.

Learn that

[slowdsm]

this is the most retarded statement ever.

Its NEVER about how much money you spend, its about the entire package working together. Sure you can pick up 3-4hp from running $1500 rods over $300 eagles, but how many people on this board are going to do that?

You miss the entire point of this thread. This was my KEEP IT SIMPLE GUIDE TO NA.

This thread is for your average to medium built motors for guys running STREET ENGINES. The shit you are talking about is for all out race engines, and if someone is building that kind of motor they arent coming to IA for advice.

I have made MORE POWER with OFF THE SHELF parts that almost anyone in GA, so has All-MOTA. Both of us have had engines break the 230+whp mark with OFF THE SHELF PARTS. Stuff that everyone can use an afford.

You AVERAGE street engine is fine with Eagles, CPs, Wisecos, Minimal port work, etc. You are talking about welding combustion chambers when there is stuff you can do WAY EASIER than than to up your compression SAFELY.

How much power have your setups made? 300whp out of a B Series? GImme a break kid thats only been done about 5 times in the world.

THESE GUYS ARENT BUILDING THOSE KIND OF MOTORS. This thread is for guys building 190-220whp engines with minimal money. Its about spending money in the RIGHT AREAS.

Learn that

how do you know that you only going to get 3-4 horse from running the lighter rods? if i am building an all motor car, i will spend that money to get that 3-4hp.

increasing compression is only ne benefit of welding the combustion chamber. you will reduce significant piston weight from running a shorter dome. i am pretty sure you will free up significant amount of horse power to the wheel when the weight saving are combined with with a lighten crank, lighter rods, lighten flywheel, lighten wheels, 3 pucks clutch disc (more chatter but lighter than 6 or 4 pucks), behive spring (use a smaller retainer), narrow skirt pistons. you will have a better quench pad surface too which you can add a little more timing to pick up a little more power.

you are right. this thread is about keeping it simple. get everything done while the motor is out. spend a little extra money and have all the good bottom end and head mods. basically anything that require pulling the motor should be done ahead of time. this is important when you are paying someone to do the work for you because the money you pay for multiple shop visits can be use to buy the parts you needed to begin with. the complication is having to go back and explaining to your homeboy why you got dusted.

vteckidd. i know you are the all motor expert. i know you know a lot about all motor setups. tell these forks on here the truth and not what they want to hear. 200hp is not enough to hang anymore. tell them they need to spend money to go fast. tell them this is 2010 and there are only 5 b series in the 300hp range because they only want to spend money on some off the shelf pistons and eagle rods.

[Vteckidd]

how do you know that you only going to get 3-4 horse from running the lighter rods? if i am building an all motor car, i will spend that money to get that 3-4hp.

Because i know what im talking about. My engine builder tested TI rods for Omniman, and has done a ton of work with aluminum rods, A beams, H Beams, I Beams, etc.

If you were to take a motor making 240whp with EAGLE RODS ($300) and were to do nothing except CHANGE the rods out to TITANIUM ($1500 rods) the only gain you would see is from about 8500+ and it would be 3-5whp.

I dont know how to say this any simpler, but this thread is about KEEPING IT SIMPLE. That means most bang for the buck. If you can justify to a street car to buy rods that cost $1500 for 3-5whp of PEAK POWER, and also sacrificing reliability, then go for it. I wont.

increasing compression is only ne benefit of welding the combustion chamber. you will reduce significant piston weight from running a shorter dome. i am pretty sure you will free up significant amount of horse power to the wheel when the weight saving are combined with with a lighten crank, lighter rods, lighten flywheel, lighten wheels, 3 pucks clutch disc (more chatter but lighter than 6 or 4 pucks), behive spring (use a smaller retainer), narrow skirt pistons. you will have a better quench pad surface too which you can add a little more timing to pick up a little more power.

Show me results from lighter pistons vs off the shelf CP pistons. Show me results from knife edged cranks vs stock. Heavy rods vs light. etc.

The WHOLE POINT IF THIS THREAD is about KEEPING IT SIMPLE. Using off the shelf parts to make good RELIABLE power.

95% of all engine builds out there are fine with EAGLE Rods
95% of all engine builds out there are fine with off the shelf pistons

Most of these guys are on BUDGETS, they dont have $10,000 to spend on an NA Engine. most people have $2000-3000 tops.

Again you are trying to compare some all out race engine to a STREET ENGINE.

you are right. this thread is about keeping it simple. get everything done while the motor is out. spend a little extra money and have all the good bottom end and head mods. basically anything that require pulling the motor should be done ahead of time. this is important when you are paying someone to do the work for you because the money you pay for multiple shop visits can be use to buy the parts you needed to begin with. the complication is having to go back and explaining to your homeboy why you got dusted.

The methods you are recommending cost a ton more money with little better results. If they follow my methods they will made good power, be reliable, and if "they get dusted by their homeboy" so be it. Theres always someone faster.

You talk like 200-220whp isnt a lot. I cant name 1 person that has cracked 220whp with a B Series in the last 2 years NA. Where are all your builds that make tons of power?

My 200whp 1.8L CRX LOST to guys making 210-220whp out of 2.0 K Series or 2.2l H Series, and it didnt lose by much. It was a simple setup in a nice car.

vteckidd. i know you are the all motor expert. i know you know a lot about all motor setups. tell these forks on here the truth and not what they want to hear. 200hp is not enough to hang anymore. tell them they need to spend money to go fast. tell them this is 2010 and there are only 5 b series in the 300hp range because they only want to spend money on some off the shelf pistons and eagle rods.

The truth is more people have fun with a well rounded setup, than spending tons of money on parts that dont matter. That was the WHOLE POINT of this thread. Telling people you dont have to spend the most money, or buy the most trick parts, etc. Its about choosing the RIGHT parts.

If someone wants to try an build some crazy 300whp engine then obviously they arent on this site looking at this thread for advice.

200whp IS ENOUGH nowadays. Its perfectly fine. You arent going to beat 400-500whp cars, but if you are NA you already know that. Out of the 20 cars that dynoed at mainstreams dyno day yesterday, 1 cracked 200whp, there was about 10 in the 190whp range.

That says something.

Tbone on Honda-tech TRIED to build a 300whp NA B Series engine with about $20,000 he made 276whp. That was dry sumped, $1500 rods, $1000 custom pistons, Custom Cams, $2000 head work, $2500 ITBs, tons more trick stuff. I dont know about you, but who on here has that kind of money?

[all-mota]

How much is plenty?

Every gram matter in a n/a set up when you are working with small displacement. I know most n/a guys leave some room to make excuses when they lose a race. I know it is not the money issue because there is nothing cheap about a vtec b series or k series. It just senseless build a na setup with with heavy ass parts. Next time you get vteckidd to build you an na set don't tell him you want some weak apple sauce 175hp or even 200hp setup. Tell him you will bust your ass at work and you are going to give him some real money because you want 300hp+ from your b series. Anything less is unacceptable. This is 2010. Support the economy. Get the good parts if you insist on running na.

lol your funny 260whp and almost 300bhp on pump gas out of a 1.9 liter

theres not a cheap part in my engine trust me but that comes with spending the money for the best parts

just a quick add up of a few of the thing in my engine are

carrilo pro a rods $750
sleeved block $950
cnc ported head with hand work $1200
smsp header $1300
jenvey itb's $1600 which was a good deal

and i could keep going but all of the parts in my engine can be bought off the shelf i'll gladly post everything and someone is more than welcome to replicate it.

thats more than most people want to spend on there whole build but they want as much power as possible and want to cheap out every way they can thats why most of them just throw a turbo on their car and say it's fast there not commited to doing things right.

[slowdsm]

lol your funny 260whp and almost 300bhp on pump gas out of a 1.9 liter

theres not a cheap part in my engine trust me but that comes with spending the money for the best parts

just a quick add up of a few of the thing in my engine are

carrilo pro a rods $750
sleeved block $950
cnc ported head with hand work $1200
smsp header $1300
jenvey itb's $1600 which was a good deal

and i could keep going but all of the parts in my engine can be bought off the shelf i'll gladly post everything and someone is more than welcome to replicate it.

thats more than most people want to spend on there whole build but they want as much power as possible and want to cheap out every way they can thats why most of them just throw a turbo on their car and say it's fast there not commited to doing things right.

260hp. now that is not bad on pump gas for all motor. will we see some e85 or race gas with a little more timing to see if you will be the 6th person with 300hp all motor?

i am running a turbo because i think anything less than 500hp is a little boring. heck, i was told that you need 600hp on the street to be cool but that is a whole different discussion.

btw. there is a lot of e85 station around here now. has anyone try it on an all motor build on ia. this can be a simple and relatively cheap mod. you can definitely turn the timing up with e85.

[all-mota]

260hp. now that is not bad on pump gas for all motor. will we see some e85 or race gas with a little more timing to see if you will be the 6th person with 300hp all motor?

i am running a turbo because i think anything less than 500hp is a little boring. heck, i was told that you need 600hp on the street to be cool but that is a whole different discussion.

btw. there is a lot of e85 station around here now. has anyone try it on an all motor build on ia. this can be a simple and relatively cheap mod. you can definitely turn the timing up with e85.

all motor cars aren't like turbo cars you can't pick up 50whp with race gas and timing it's only worth about 10whp if your lucky

[turbomirage]

"thats more than most people want to spend on there whole build but they want as much power as possible and want to cheap out every way they can thats why most of them just throw a turbo on their car and say it's fast there not commited to doing things right."

Bingo, this quote says it all. No one wants to spend that much on an N/A set-up on here because that is retarded. They want to get as much power as they can, so they put a turbo on their car. Cheap out? Why wouldn't you want to go fast for cheaper? And what is not right about putting a turbo on your car? By doing this you gain the same power and more for less money than if you stayed N/A. Nothing is wrong with N/A, but if you want to go fast with N/A, go V8. It's just how it is.

And another thing, this "I love the instant power of N/A" is cool and all, but it's a poor excuse for not wanting to go turbo. Get real, it is not more fun to drive a N/A 4 cylinder than a turbo 4 cylinder. That is why you see all these guys on here wanting to go turbo with their Honda motors. They are tired of being slow and want to get with the program, or they want to go fast for cheaper. That's it. If N/A is for you, then all power to you. But I think you are you a little naive if you think putting a turbo on your Honda motor is "cheaping out."

Vteckkid, this is a good thread for guys wanting to stay N/A and gain some power. You are an expert in it as well as all-mota. Slowdsm was just trying to help give some info, that's all. But I think that was a stupid comment all-mota posted about going turbo, that's why I posted.

[Vteckidd]

260hp. now that is not bad on pump gas for all motor. will we see some e85 or race gas with a little more timing to see if you will be the 6th person with 300hp all motor?

This isnt the Turbo Forum , E85 doesnt add HP like that lol Neither does Race Gas.

i am running a turbo because i think anything less than 500hp is a little boring. heck, i was told that you need 600hp on the street to be cool but that is a whole different discussion.

want to know the difference between a 400whp street car FWD and a 600whp street car FWD? nothing, they both have zero traction.

THIS IS THE NA FORUM, have you EVER built and NA Honda Engine ?

btw. there is a lot of e85 station around here now. has anyone try it on an all motor build on ia. this can be a simple and relatively cheap mod. you can definitely turn the timing up with e85.

You can tune an NA Engine on 93octance very efficiently without the need for race gas.

Again, most street cars run 11-12:1 compression which is fine with 93 octane. Simple switching to race gas and adding timing isnt going to get you power, if it does its VERY little.

The only way you use RACE GAS is if you run a 13=15:1 motor, in that instance your engine NEEDS higher octane for a more efficient burn. But at that compression you arent a street car anymore.