Michael Vick in Talks to Become PETA Spokesman

[tony]

So neither IMPORTchic or Jimmy believes an individual can be rehabilitated? That is damn near fundamental, damn near cognitive for humans to learn from experience (good or bad) and adjust accordingly. Someone who has done drugs is a much more believable advocate for prevention than another individual who has never faced the reality of it.

Furthermore those who are quick to draw conclusions on people like Michael Vick do not understand the culture and mindset of Dog Fighting. Its easy to point the finger when you struggle to see things through the eyes of who you accuse or understand where they came from. Was it wrong? Yes, and he's been punished but Vick is nothing more than a product of his environment, an environment that people have no problem judging but wont take the time to understand because most times they feel it is beneath them.

[Vteckidd]

Gambling is an addiction, no matter how much money you have. What makes you so sure he wont do it again?

What makes you so sure HE WILL DO IT AGAIN.

[FlipKing]

So neither IMPORTchic or Jimmy believes an individual can be rehabilitated? That is damn near fundamental, damn near cognitive for humans to learn from experience (good or bad) and adjust accordingly. Someone who has done drugs is a much more believable advocate for prevention than another individual who has never faced the reality of it.

Furthermore those who are quick to draw conclusions on people like Michael Vick do not understand the culture and mindset of Dog Fighting. Its easy to point the finger when you struggle to see things through the eyes of who you accuse or understand where they came from. Was it wrong? Yes, and he's been punished but Vick is nothing more than a product of his environment, an environment that people have no problem judging but wont take the time to understand because most times they feel it is beneath them.

Reps for being absolutely correct.

[VIP Style]

hmph, absolutely. lets see what they have to say about that.

So neither IMPORTchic or Jimmy believes an individual can be rehabilitated? That is damn near fundamental, damn near cognitive for humans to learn from experience (good or bad) and adjust accordingly. Someone who has done drugs is a much more believable advocate for prevention than another individual who has never faced the reality of it.

Furthermore those who are quick to draw conclusions on people like Michael Vick do not understand the culture and mindset of Dog Fighting. Its easy to point the finger when you struggle to see things through the eyes of who you accuse or understand where they came from. Was it wrong? Yes, and he's been punished but Vick is nothing more than a product of his environment, an environment that people have no problem judging but wont take the time to understand because most times they feel it is beneath them.

[Hondatwin23]

Ha! PETA sounds like they will have new members soon.

[Professor X]

I have read both sides of this and I can see both arguements. However, I agree with others in that he should not be branded as a dog fighter for life. I will use an example I feel that most of us can relate to.

I feel safe in saying that the majority of the members on this board have participated in street racing at some point in our lives, myself included; for some it was earlier today, for others it was years ago. I find it hard to believe that none of us were aware that it was illegal considering that we did it behind industrial buildings in the wee hours of the morning. That being said, alot of us have moved on to racing in legal sanctioned events or have moved on to other more productive and legal means of fun. We put our human lives along with other human lives in danger and although it didn't take the loss of a life for me to learn my lesson, unfortunately for some it might. I am definitely not a street racer, although I street raced on numerous occasions for years.

What does it take for a human to learn a lesson? We all are different in respects to learning so noone can say for sure whether Vick has learned his lesson or not.

[AirMax95]

Yeah, its amazing how people are on some Phd psychological type stuff in here.

"He is not sincere", "He will do it again". Since when is everyone now such a good judge of character? Drug addicts, prostitutes, womanizers, gamblers, street racers, liars, cheaters, etc. all have the capacity to be changed. Get off his back and support him on a road to a positive life.

Our society does not even treat domestic abuse and murder this bad (As far as AFTER their sentence has been served). Lets not get started on hate crimes and the like. Vick did something that is "bad", was caught, judged, and sentenced. He served his time, and now he is doing what he can to get back to the life he once had. Should he not get that chance? If PETA feels he is sincere and can make a difference in the animal rights world then let them do it.

...and to the people who are yelling that he should not play football again, STFU. I am not a hardcore football fan, but I don't think he should be denied his talent to play.

[FlipKing]

everyone acts like he is the only person to ever dog fight. Lets hang out on friday night, I could take you to 5. Just saying, alot of people do it and they dont all go to jail for a year and lose 120 mil.

[Professor X]

I'll play Devil's Advocate as far as Vick being a spokesperson for PETA. I can't think of a better candidate to speak out than someone who made a poor choice and paid substantially for it. During this string of events, Vick has gone from the highest paid player in the NFL to petitioning to be reinstated. After reinstatement, he still has to prove himself to potentially interested parties for a JOB! He will likely not make half of what he did before. This statement is not meant for anyone to feel sorry about Vick's financial situation, but to show how he has paid financially for his choices.

On another note, let's consider that PETA is trying to reach a different demographic that they believe Vick can appeal to. If a kid sees me on TV saying that animal cruelty is bad, they would likely care less. However, if Vick shows up on the TV screen, the message will carry a lot more weight. If we can get the message out there about how harmful this type of conduct is, hopefully people will avoid it at all costs.

[BanginJimmy]

So neither IMPORTchic or Jimmy believes an individual can be rehabilitated? That is damn near fundamental, damn near cognitive for humans to learn from experience (good or bad) and adjust accordingly. Someone who has done drugs is a much more believable advocate for prevention than another individual who has never faced the reality of it.

I believe most people can be rehabilitated if they have proper motivation, but not those that get their jollies through the suffering of others. Their is something very seriously wrong mentally in someone that enjoys that.

There is also the issue of a gambling addiction. If he had a healthy enjoyment of gambling, Vick had the money to head to Vegas at any time. Instead he chose to bet large sums on dog fighting. That tells me that he enjoys the rush of an illegal activity just as much as the gambling. Nothing in his actions give any indication of repentance. As I have said before, he could be 100% sincere in his work with PETA, but the average Joe will only see it as a publicity stunt and make the criticisms of his character even louder.

Furthermore those who are quick to draw conclusions on people like Michael Vick do not understand the culture and mindset of Dog Fighting. Its easy to point the finger when you struggle to see things through the eyes of who you accuse or understand where they came from. Was it wrong? Yes, and he's been punished but Vick is nothing more than a product of his environment, an environment that people have no problem judging but wont take the time to understand because most times they feel it is beneath them.

You can talk about social conditioning if you want, but that would be the same as excusing the actions of the SS during WWII. They were conditioned by German society to believe Jews were a lesser being than an Aryan. You say it was only a dog, the SS said it was only a Jew. Slaver owners said it was only a ******. Islamic terrorists say it is only an infidel. To say that this is any different than dog fighting is ignoring human nature and the power of social conditioning. The same social conditioning that humanizes dogs and makes them a very real part of our families.

[Tracy]

I'm not going to get into society and all of that mumbo jumbo. Like I said, this thread wasn't meant for everyone's laundry list of what they think is wrong with the US and society and blah blah blah. Just because we treat one thing a certain way doesn't make another crime less pertinent. They are all completely separate issues and should be dealth with as such.

This thread was meant to state that I PERSONALLY don't agree with what HE did in this situation. I don't think he would be a good, SINCERE rep for PETA (not that I entirely agree with PETA). I PERSONALLY feel that it is a PR move (I am in the business of PR actually, so I happen to understand it quite well).

I do believe people can be rehabilitated, but generally speaking, I don't think prison is the place you get rehabilitated (dog fighting, domestic abuse, drugs, whatever) and the whole prison system is way flawed in that respect...that is also another separate long thread topic. I think time, counseling, restitution and relevant community service, etc. (maybe in dog shelters and fostering services for abused animals) is the best form of rehabilitation (and he has started the process) IMO, let me restate, IMO, the time he did in jail wasn't enough alone to rehabilitate him.

I also have little sympathy for how he might have been "raised" or his culture as it pertains to dog fighting. I was raised by 2 coke head free-basers and I am not...despite how I was raised and the culture surrounding a house hold of junkies. To me, it's just not an excuse to do wrong. He went to college, he was socialized and he knows the difference between right and wrong. Point blank.

[Tracy]

Get off his back and support him on a road to a positive life.



.

When did it become my job to support him in his life choices? If it were my job, he wouldn't have been involved with dog fights to begin with. Moot point if you ask me.

[BanginJimmy]

Yeah, its amazing how people are on some Phd psychological type stuff in here.

"He is not sincere", "He will do it again". Since when is everyone now such a good judge of character? Drug addicts, prostitutes, womanizers, gamblers, street racers, liars, cheaters, etc. all have the capacity to be changed. Get off his back and support him on a road to a positive life.

Sorry, I'm currently in a criminology class and alot of the psycho babble is very fresh in my mind. We will actually be doing a discussion on the whole Vick thing next thursday. Part of the discussion on labeling and social conditioning.

Our society does not even treat domestic abuse and murder this bad (As far as AFTER their sentence has been served). Lets not get started on hate crimes and the like. Vick did something that is "bad", was caught, judged, and sentenced. He served his time, and now he is doing what he can to get back to the life he once had. Should he not get that chance? If PETA feels he is sincere and can make a difference in the animal rights world then let them do it.

And he is getting off FAR better than a 17yo kid that has sex with a 15yo and is labeled a sex offender for the rest of his life. Comparing the results of different crimes is a pointless argument.

...and to the people who are yelling that he should not play football again, STFU. I am not a hardcore football fan, but I don't think he should be denied his talent to play.

I dont think he should play again because he isnt all that good to start with. That is beside the point though. I think he will be suspended for the 09 season at a minimum. Then depending on his attitude Goddell will consider a petition to re-enter the league before the '10 draft.

[AirMax95]

When did it become my job to support him in his life choices? If it were my job, he wouldn't have been involved with dog fights to begin with. Moot point if you ask me.

You are correct, but being negative about the situation is not helping anyone. You don't have to support him, but slamming him is not helping anyone or anything.

[Tracy]

You are correct, but being negative about the situation is not helping anyone. You don't have to support him, but slamming him is not helping anyone or anything.

Really? How is my thread on IA affecting his situation? Enlighten me.

edit: I am not here to help anyone. Just having an intelligent convo. I never thought that my thread would change the world, hun...

[Vteckidd]

I dont think people should HAVE to support him, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Of COURSE its a PR move, and its a smart one. Vick is aiming to get back in the limelight and turn his image around. What better way to do that to work for an organization that is big into animal rights.

Whether people think he is sincere or not is yet to be determined. But if i were his agent, thats what i would have done.

It gets people TALKING about him, which there is no such thing as bad publicity. This next year will make or break his career (or comeback). He has to prove to the NFL that he is rehabilitated and ready to be a role model/citizen.

Whether you like it or not, being a PETA spokesperson will go along way with the governing body. Its like charity.

He would also be smart to do it without being paid

[Tracy]

I guess ignorant people value good PR over sincerity, so you have a point since there are more ignorant people in this world than not.

[BanginJimmy]

Gotta agree with Tracy on this one. This thing with PETA just reeks of desperation PR. Sport of like Gibbs does every time Biden opens his mouth. There is no reason to believe he is sorry for anything more than getting caught.

[Vteckidd]

I guess ignorant people value good PR over sincerity, so you have a point since there are more ignorant people in this world than not.

Ok, how do you think he should go about being SINCERE?

I mean the problem is you have 50% of the poeple that think he will NEVER be sincere, and 50% of the people that think he is making the right move.

IMO, its a lose lose for him. He cant win either way. If he kept his mouth shut and stayed below the radar, he has nowhere to go and people would think he wasnt sincere about his mistakes.

Now that hes going off about being a PETA spokesperson its a PR stunt.

Either way, we are talking about it and thats all that matters in his world

[Vteckidd]

Tracy you said in here that you were raised by drug addicts. If those people are now clean and on the straight and narrow, should we limit their interaction in society because of past transgressions?

I dont think so, i believe everyone CAN get a fresh start and start over.

thats my opinion of course.

[BanginJimmy]

Ok, how do you think he should go about being SINCERE?

I mean the problem is you have 50% of the poeple that think he will NEVER be sincere, and 50% of the people that think he is making the right move.

IMO, its a lose lose for him. He cant win either way. If he kept his mouth shut and stayed below the radar, he has nowhere to go and people would think he wasnt sincere about his mistakes.

Now that hes going off about being a PETA spokesperson its a PR stunt.

Either way, we are talking about it and thats all that matters in his world

There are other ways to get positive publicity than going too far to the other side. He could do simple things like working in a shelter cleaning cages for a few hours on saturdays without advertising it to the press, but making sure they know he was there and make sure they report it. A decent PR firm could easily make that happen. Little things like that will help ease him back into the press and set the stage for a MUCH more believable PETA add. I also think he would gain MUCH more credibility doing an ad for the SPCA before an ad for PETA. PETA has a horrible name in the animal right community.

[Vteckidd]

There are other ways to get positive publicity than going too far to the other side. He could do simple things like working in a shelter cleaning cages for a few hours on saturdays without advertising it to the press, but making sure they know he was there and make sure they report it. A decent PR firm could easily make that happen. Little things like that will help ease him back into the press and set the stage for a MUCH more believable PETA add. I also think he would gain MUCH more credibility doing an ad for the SPCA before an ad for PETA. PETA has a horrible name in the animal right community.

well i guess thats why they get paid the big bucks and we dont (PR people handling this)

[BanginJimmy]

well i guess thats why they get paid the big bucks and we dont (PR people handling this)

this is true

[Tracy]

Tracy you said in here that you were raised by drug addicts. If those people are now clean and on the straight and narrow, should we limit their interaction in society because of past transgressions?

I dont think so, i believe everyone CAN get a fresh start and start over.

thats my opinion of course.

You are asking the wrong person to prove your point when it comes to his. I haven't talked to my brother in 7 and I JUST started talking to my mother a few months ago after 10 years. They will never change. That being said...I already mentioned that I believe that people can be rehabilitated, BUT that PRISON is not the place to get that. It takes much more for most people than that. There are obviously exceptions to every rule. And if you want to make a little full circle out of this whole post, my family members practically live in prison and they are far from rehabilitated.

[Tracy]

Ok, how do you think he should go about being SINCERE?

I mean the problem is you have 50% of the poeple that think he will NEVER be sincere, and 50% of the people that think he is making the right move.

IMO, its a lose lose for him. He cant win either way. If he kept his mouth shut and stayed below the radar, he has nowhere to go and people would think he wasnt sincere about his mistakes.

Now that hes going off about being a PETA spokesperson its a PR stunt.

Either way, we are talking about it and thats all that matters in his world

Yea, that's all just life I guess. Most of the time you cant win with everyone. No matter how hard you try to please everyone. There will always be someone there to say you messed up.

I say that it takes a certain kind of person to do that in the first place. I just can't understand it and that's why I am so upset about it. I feel like my dog is my baby. I missed her so much when I was gone this weekend. She has such a personality and I always talk to Dan about how she could have very well been born into being a fighting dog. All of that personality—turned into a fighting dog.

I took some time to look at some pictures and some dog fighting videos, just to see how gruesome it was or was not) before I made a complete judgment. I watched 2 videos for about 10 seconds a piece. I was grossed the F out. Like I said, I just don't understand it.

[IMPORTchic]

So neither IMPORTchic or Jimmy believes an individual can be rehabilitated? That is damn near fundamental, damn near cognitive for humans to learn from experience (good or bad) and adjust accordingly. Someone who has done drugs is a much more believable advocate for prevention than another individual who has never faced the reality of it.

Furthermore those who are quick to draw conclusions on people like Michael Vick do not understand the culture and mindset of Dog Fighting. Its easy to point the finger when you struggle to see things through the eyes of who you accuse or understand where they came from. Was it wrong? Yes, and he's been punished but Vick is nothing more than a product of his environment, an environment that people have no problem judging but wont take the time to understand because most times they feel it is beneath them.

Could you please quote me where I directly said that he can not be rehabilitated.

I plainly just dont think prison is where that rehab is at. Him getting back into society is going to throw many things at him. Who knows what he is going to be around. I hope the dude can get his act together and no make the same mistakes, for the dogs lives.

I stated many times I just dont agree with him being involved with the PR with PETA. His ass should be doing community service with humane societies or something IMO. On the FREE to say the least.

[BobbyFresco]

Could you please quote me where I directly said that he can not be rehabilitated.

I plainly just dont think prison is where that rehab is at. Him getting back into society is going to throw many things at him. Who knows what he is going to be around. I hope the dude can get his act together and no make the same mistakes, for the dogs lives.

I stated many times I just dont agree with him being involved with the PR with PETA. His ass should be doing community service with humane societies or something IMO. On the FREE to say the least.

There is no course of action that Vick could take that would satisfy all those who judge him. As it has been stated previously in this thread, it is a lose/lose situation for him in regards to how he and his handlers should deal with rehabilitating his public image. Volunteering at humane socities and the like will most certainly not be anymore advantageous than being a spokesperson for PETA. Honestly, considering the image that PETA presently carries, I don't believe it is in his best interest to have that association anyway...IMO, he has paid his dues both legally and monetarily and he should not have to jump through additional hoops for anyone. He should lay low and work on getting his career back on track. I say again, let the man be and allow him to pick up the pieces of what is left of his life.

[tony]

Could you please quote me where I directly said that he can not be rehabilitated.

I plainly just dont think prison is where that rehab is at. Him getting back into society is going to throw many things at him. Who knows what he is going to be around. I hope the dude can get his act together and no make the same mistakes, for the dogs lives.

I stated many times I just dont agree with him being involved with the PR with PETA. His ass should be doing community service with humane societies or something IMO. On the FREE to say the least.

I said you believe it, not that you said it directly. Everything you've said about Vick here points toward that. You think him roaming free is somehow going to rehabilitate him but a couple of years in prison did nothing? Interesting logic.

Anyway, I agree with Bobby. Its not like PETA is this highly respected organization, he'd be doing less for his PR than more for theirs which leads me to believe 1 of 2 things;

a. His time in jail and the onslaught of attacks from PETA has his perception of the organization jaded and he thinks they are legitimate when really they're a laughing stock in the media.

b. He wants to set things right, doesn't know how and thinks PETA is the most notable way to go about it.

Theres some things I would try to explain to a lot of you about dog fighting and that culture but that would assume you're able to set aside prejudices (no, not racial) for a second and have an open mind. Judging by what I've seen here that would be a wasted effort.

[IMPORTchic]

I said you believe it, not that you said it directly. Everything you've said about Vick here points toward that. You think him roaming free is somehow going to rehabilitate him but a couple of years in prison did nothing? Interesting logic.

Anyway, I agree with Bobby. Its not like PETA is this highly respected organization, he'd be doing less for his PR than more for theirs which leads me to believe 1 of 2 things;

a. His time in jail and the onslaught of attacks from PETA has his perception of the organization jaded and he thinks they are legitimate when really they're a laughing stock in the media.

b. He wants to set things right, doesn't know how and thinks PETA is the most notable way to go about it.

Theres some things I would try to explain to a lot of you about dog fighting and that culture but that would assume you're able to set aside prejudices (no, not racial) for a second and have an open mind. Judging by what I've seen here that would be a wasted effort.

Yet again putting words in my mouth. I do not directly think he can not be rehabilitated, but only he can choose his path in life. I didnt say that him being in prison did nothing either, for him to roam free.... Prison was his punishment for his actions. Now he needs to make things right.

With the way you talk you must know first hand about dog fighting. So please enlighten us. I am very capable of having an open mind. What other prejudices are you speaking of?

[BanginJimmy]

a. His time in jail and the onslaught of attacks from PETA has his perception of the organization jaded and he thinks they are legitimate when really they're a laughing stock in the media.

b. He wants to set things right, doesn't know how and thinks PETA is the most notable way to go about it.

I agree with both of these statements. Someone has him convinced that PETA is the way to credibility.

Theres some things I would try to explain to a lot of you about dog fighting and that culture but that would assume you're able to set aside prejudices (no, not racial) for a second and have an open mind. Judging by what I've seen here that would be a wasted effort.

I would absolutely love to hear this.

It probably would be a wasted effort because outside of mental illness, there is no reasonable excuse for gaining pleasure from the suffering of others.

[Vteckidd]

what about the running of the bulls in spain?

Bullfighting?

Rodeos? i mean they cage an animal and then prod/spur it before they release it to intentionally piss it off.

How is that not inhumane

[tony]

Yet again putting words in my mouth. I do not directly think he can not be rehabilitated, but only he can choose his path in life. I didnt say that him being in prison did nothing either, for him to roam free.... Prison was his punishment for his actions. Now he needs to make things right.

With the way you talk you must know first hand about dog fighting. So please enlighten us. I am very capable of having an open mind. What other prejudices are you speaking of?

hmm...

EXACTLY.

And only point I have left besdies for the fact of hating him and thinking that he is a cold hearted motherfucker, is that he should not be a spokes person for them. That is insane.

He is not sincere!! At all!! He has psychological problems to treat a dog like that.

He might be in that trap with dog fighting and still continue to do it, because he is one of those people that do not care about dogs well being and are heartless to have ever done it in the first place.

Since you say I'm putting words in your mouth, I give you your own. And enlighten you? Enlighten yourself, I don't do long informative posts any more. People with such strong opinions tend to cling to them no matter how ignorant or judgemental those opinions are.

[Tracy]

I'm pretty open minded actually. Just sayin'.

[IMPORTchic]

what about the running of the bulls in spain?

Bullfighting?

Rodeos? i mean they cage an animal and then prod/spur it before they release it to intentionally piss it off.

How is that not inhumane

You semi have a point......then again though....dogs>bulls. Bulls have a brain about the size of a peanut it seems. I use to work with them every day. They are not domesticated pets. Also, I dont know much about bullfighting, but I know rodeos are not bad because they are not fighting til death. A bull in bull riding has its nuts tied up by a strap. That is no diff then you wearing tight underwear...



...not that you do or anything. lmao. *runs*

[Tracy]

what about the running of the bulls in spain?

Bullfighting?

Rodeos? i mean they cage an animal and then prod/spur it before they release it to intentionally piss it off.

How is that not inhumane

Oh damn. I was discussing this thread with someone last night and I actually introduced all all these "sports" as things I don't agree with. I get really upset even at the horses they use in places like New Orleans for drawing carriages. It hurts my feelings to see them out there with all of that crap on them and thing in their mouth in the baking sun. I could go on and on, but I won't because I am trying to keep on the subject as much as I would like to go off on tangents myself.

[IMPORTchic]

hmm...








Since you say I'm putting words in your mouth, I give you your own. And enlighten you? Enlighten yourself, I don't do long informative posts any more. People with such strong opinions tend to cling to them no matter how ignorant or judgemental those opinions are.

You are correct. I DONT think that prison rehabilitated his psychological problems. Although I DO think that there are forms of rehab in the real world he can seek if wanted.

WHat is your point?!

[IMPORTchic]

Oh damn. I was discussing this thread with someone last night and I actually introduced all all these "sports" as things I don't agree with. I get really upset even at the horses they use in places like New Orleans for drawing carriages. It hurts my feelings to see them out there with all of that crap on them and thing in their mouth in the baking sun. I could go on and on, but I won't because I am trying to keep on the subject as much as I would like to go off on tangents myself.

Horses>bulls.....that is all I am saying.

Do I think it is 100% right to have bull riding and stuff? No. But I do not have a strong opinion about it like I do dogs. My dog is my child.

EDIT: my American Staffordshire Terrier AKA Pit is my child.

[Tracy]

Tony, you are pretty good at sticking to your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make you closed minded just because you don't sway with the wind. Nah mean?

[tony]

I'm pretty open minded actually. Just sayin'.

lol I wasn't referring to you Tracy, I know you keep an open mind. You know how it is with IA, opinions go back and forth with nobody really taking anything away from the other.

*edited for a typo i had deleted

[Tracy]

lol I wasn't referring to you Tracy, I know you keep an open mind. You know how it is with IA, opinions go back and forth with nobody really taking anything away from the other.
er than football but feel comfortable labeling him a psycho.

Ok :P I just don't want anyone getting mad at me over Michael Vick and I am the one who started the thread. I just like some debate once in a while. It helps me keep me on my toes.