A.Originally Posted by EJ25RUN
B. Just sayin'. He doesn't really need a reason.
A.
B. Just sayin'. He doesn't really need a reason.
It's a given that we disagree on this matter.A.
B. Just sayin'. He doesn't really need a reason.
But, you don't see me speaking for others if i don't have a clue what they are talking about. If the opportunity ever pops up, don't answer for me. Just PM me and let me say what i want to say.
Did I quote you or something? Pretty sure I didn't. I'm also pretty sure I said everyone was entitled to their opinion and to post it if they had oneBelieve me when I say, you're beating a dead horse....* Oh noes, please don't charge me*
Financing and having a place where the fighting occured is the same as torturing and willfully killing AN ANIMAL I guess....Lulz...common sense...
and Tracy, I never said you were not allowed to have an opinion or express said opinion....but by the same token, I am allowed to express my varying opinion on something that I deem to be utterly retarded...Just like you, I am allowed to be upset over YOUR opinion, right?
Also, if you are eating the animal, it's a different story. Did Vick eat any of those dogs after he tortured them? Are you guys saying what he did was ok because I eat chicken and beef? Seriously?
Hypocrisy would mean that I actually torture animals then argue that Vick shouldn't. Your example is not and example of hypocrisy.
I actually volunteer at animal shelters. I don't agree that they put them to sleep. You are trying to add all of these points in here based on nothing. This thread isn't about all of the things we think are wrong when it comes to animals. To stay on topic, I am not arguing each and every animal treatment issue. I made this thread to discuss Vick and PETA. You want to discuss animal shelters? Make another thread
I have to go with Tracy on this one about them being ate. If the animals are killed for human consumption then that is one thing....dogs are domesticated PETS...not food. HE was using them for pleasure and entertainment. CRUEL. The dogs did nothing but try to obey their master like they are driven to do. Driven to kill each other and basically commit suicide. Fighting a game cock is just as inhumane IMO but this is not about that. This is about Vick being a rep for PETA.
Hypocricy would mean that I actually torture animals then argue that Vick shouldn't. Your example is not and example of hypocrisy.
I actually volunteer at animal shelters. I don't agree that they put them to sleep. You are trying to add all of these points in here based on nothing. This thread isn't about all of the things we think are wrong when it comes to animals. To stay on topic, I am not arguing each and every animal treatment issue. I made this thread to discuss Vick and PETA. You want to discuss animal shelters? Make another thread
So because you don't kill the animals that you consume, that makes the "offense" ok? I'm sure you keep tabs on how humanely every one of your meals containing animal or animal bypriducts left life on this earth before being broken down by your stomach acids, correct?
Oh, and I can post smiley faces too. See:
Oh and in keeping with the thread topic, I think Vick representing PETA is idiotic...I mean, it doesn't come across as very sincere, given the nature of the situation...
I'm not mad at you bud, that's why I am putting the smiley faces. I don't want to offend anyone over an intelligent debate. Got me?So because you don't kill the animals that you consume, that makes the "offense" ok? I'm sure you keep tabs on how humanely every one of your meals containing animal or animal bypriducts left life on this earth before being broken down by your stomach acids, correct?
Oh, and I can post smiley faces too. See:
And yes, I am saying it is ok to eat a non domesticated animal. I eat organic free range only and no I don't keep tabs on how they are killed. I leave that to the gov't who regulates what can be packaged as organic and free range. I don't kill them myself. That being said, it is not illegal to kill a chicken or cow for consumption purposes, it is however illegal to have dog fights.
Anymore points you would like for me to address? I would like for you to address my question. Do you think what he did was ok?
Great, then we are on the same page, so what exactly is your point? Now I am confused. You think it is ok to have dog fights, but not cool that PETA would consider him for a spokesperson? Please explain a little more.
what he did was stupid and wrong. A multi millionaire fighting dogs is like ai didn't around Philly with a gun and weed in his trunk.
What he did IMO was inhumane. Breeding animals to fight is one thng. But subjecting them to electrocution torture drowning is morally wrong. Killing a cow for Me to eat not wrong IMO.
He was using animals for blood sport. Actually his main charges weren't for animal cruelty they were for racketeering and gambling
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a.Do I see an issue with dog fighting? No...Animals are animals, afterall....Humans choose to humanize animals...silly practice, I might add....
b. Vick representing PETA is about as smart a decision as an accussed pedophile being a representative for the Boys and Girls Club...it will not change his current image, it is counterproductive towards his objective of moving on, and like I said given the situation, it will not be looked at as a sincere move on his part considering the nature of his alleged crimes and all the blood thirsty people judging him.
Was it ever proven or was he ever directly accussed of any torture, murder, or of actually fighting dogs himself? Serious question because I don't know....
Him personally there were accusations don't know if it was proven. He however knew it was going on and condoned it and that's as guilty as doing it.
I'm not arguing if what he did was as bad as xxxx, but he broke the law and big time for that he deserved what he got
Now he's out served his time. I say let him be PETA spokesperson
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At the end of the day, he broke the law and should have been punished...that I agree with, regardless of my opinions on anything else...I just feel like he should be allowed to go on with his life and be able to pursue whatever endeavors that may come his way.
Dog fighting isnt natural though. Those dogs are trained to fight, and are tortured if they dont fight. That has nothing to do with animals being animals. It is a matter of human exploiting and torturing animals for the fun of it.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...ined_fami.html
Vick was involved in hanging and drowning under performing dogs. I found a few mentions of electrical shock being used, but none said that Vick was involved in that.
I'll give you the points you made on Vick's charges. That I can't dispute.
However, dogs and most all animals fight in the wild....so that being said, if dogs weren't domesticated, instinctually they would fight. Shit, even domesticated dogs still fight each other...
Show me a single mention of putting a dogs life over a human's in general? I have said on several occasions that I do put a dog's life over Vick's, but that is because of a choice Vick made. It is not a general statement. I have no problems killing a dog as humanely as possible. I shot one on the side of the road a few months ago. It had been hit by a car and was obviously in pain. I shot it in the head and felt good about it.
Onto the idiot's guide to defending Vick question.
Yes, I do eat meat. The animals are typically stunned unconscious by a captive bot gun, like the one used by the killer in No Country For Old Men. This keeps the heart beating, but makes the killing painless for the animal. Jewish and Islamic slaughter houses kill their animals in a different fashion. They slit the animals throat without stunning it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_bolt_pistol
VERY few animals fights in the wild end in death. Most are just a power play over food or a mate and the loser runs or walks away with little injury.
I wont go into the animals that kill for food as that is a completely different discussion and my opinions would make most people here would think I was sick.
This I agree with. Even if he is 100% sincere in his motives it will be seen as a PR stunt and further enrage most people. That rage will go public and might do more harm than good to his chances of getting back into the NFL. If I was on his PR team, the advice I would give him is to do his $10/hr job as quietly as possible and not even petition to get back into the NFL until next off season. Give this a little time to quiet back down.
Agree 10000% do the crime do the time. He did let him go on
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YES! Google it. I had to do a project on this. Dont have the time to look it all up again.
Come on now....let him be a spokesperson for something that is against what he DID!? How does that work? He is not sincere!! At all!! He has psychological problems to treat a dog like that.
THat is like the example provided about a pedi working for boys and girls club. It is just plainly not right.
Ok so lets play devils advocate.
Say a guy robs a liquor store, and gets caught. He goes to jail for 4 years. He gets out. Should we brand him as a habitual armed robber the rest of his life?
There is such a thing as rehabilitation. It has yet to be seen if he has "learned his lesson". But i think him trying to be a spokesperson for an organization that champions (although a little looney) the rights of animals is a step in the right direction.
Was he wrong , YES. Should he be allowed to correct those mistakes, YES.
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I am not saying brand him for life as that, but I DO NOT agree with him being a spokesperson for them. I think it is all too fresh still. He has not even had time being back in the real world to see what he is going to do. He might relapse and do it again. It is proven that gambling is a habit. He might be in that trap with dog fighting and still continue to do it, because he is one of those people that do not care about dogs well being and are heartless to have ever done it in the first place. I think he needs to just be released back in the real world and leave PETA alone. THat is just trying too hard IMO to get his public image back.
But this wasnt a 1 time thing. To compare apples to apples, lets try this.
A man has a 200K a year job and starts robbing 1 liquor store a week. He finally gets caught after he robs 10 of them. Should we brand him an armed robber for life? Yes, we should. No amount of money is going to be enough to make him stop and his worsened financial situation will only make it worse.
That example is FAR closer o the Vick situation than your's is.
relapse?, come on guys its dog fighting not heroine.
Last edited by SPOOLIN; 05-19-2009 at 11:58 AM.
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Wasn't he charge for financing dog fights and wasn't proven to be at any of fights actually. Here is my point that I will have you guys and gals decide.
Man gets shot 50 times(true story) by 4 officers of the law. Not even a charge for manslaughter for excessive use of force
Next a mans family is running a dog fighting ring from time to time an animal will die. Man happens to be famous and rich, so its know he provided the area for the fights. Man gets 24 months in jail.
Compare the two and this is why madoff and bush was able to do what they did cause, cause as americas I think we focus on the wrong things
Now before someone goes super CNN analyst on me. This is my opinion and nana bobo....lol
He was charged with RICO, that is far worse than dog fighting. It is the same thing that was designed to fight the mob.
simple difference, the man shot by the cops was a criminal and posed a credible threat to the cops. Show me any court president or law that tells you how many times a criminal can be shot to be called excessive. Then maybe you can play that game.
It wasnt the just the man's family that was fighting the dogs. You are acting like Vick wasnt involved. He was personally involved in the fights, and in the killing of the dogs. There are reports of him being involved in the torture, but no proof of that.
What is there to compare? Two completely separate situations, 2 completely different outcomes. Madoff will go to jail for FAR longer than Vick did. He will also end up paying back a very alrge portion of the money he stole. It will leave him broke, and it will probably lead to his wife losing everything also.
I'm not sure where you are going with Bush. He did nothing illegal. Then again, I have learned to expect the ignorant people of this country to take every shot at Bush they can. They dont even care if their shot at him is even pertinent to the conversation.
This last sentence really showed your level of intelligence. You dont care if it is in any way reasonable or based in fact. You just want to have an opinion to claim to have an opinion.
Not sure what your point is, but being a sociopath means he will most likely commit more crimes on top of the ones no one knows about yet.
the man shot by the cops was a criminal and posed a credible threat to the cops. Show me any court president or law that tells you how many times a criminal can be shot to be called excessive. Then maybe you can play that game.
with comments like this it can easily be shown that you just want to be right so i will let you have it. and also i was raised with sean bell and he wasnt a criminal and last time i check it only take 1 bullet to kill someone
i do feel bad for the dogs but once a debt has been paid, it has been paid and at least give him the chance to make rights in the world.
Really? I know more than a couple people that have been shot and lived. Shooting someone 50 times is excessive in the literal sense, but is perfectly fine in the legal sense just so long as it was legal to shoot him 1 time.
No one has said that Vick should be executed for his crimes. What this thread is about is the hypocrisy and uselessness of him speaking on behalf of PETA.
ehh i think you guys calling him a sociopath over dog fighting is a stretch of the imagination.
What he did was wrong, and what he financed was illegal. He got caught. Most criminals do multiple crimes BEFORE they are caught, thats nothing knew. After you do it a few times you think you can get away with it. IMO it doesnt mean a person cant be rehabilitated.
Vick was found guilty of RACKETEERING AND GAMBLING in both state and federal cases.
He never actually was at any of these fights from what i can see and read about. He was more of the bankroll. He setup and financed the living arrangements and houses where the fighting took place. But i cant find anything that says he was actually present.
He apolagized, donated 1 million to the dogs that were fighting, and if he thinks being a PETA spokesperson would help, why not?
People make mistakes, they can correct them. Even though what he did and condoned was disgustingly brutal, i think he should be given a second chance.
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THANK YOU!!!
[QUOTE=BanginJimmy]Really? I know more than a couple people that have been shot and lived. Shooting someone 50 times is excessive in the literal sense, but is perfectly fine in the legal sense just so long as it was legal to shoot him 1 time.
yes, i knew him and ive meet with his friends that was with him but as for the comment about literal and legal senses.....i have no more words for you
thank you x2, good grief this whole thing was blown way out of proportion.
I dont call him a sociopath because of the dog fighting, but because of the torture he inflicted on the dogs. Anyone that can take pleasure in torturing a dog will not hesitate to do the same to a human.
He never admitted to being there, but it is taken as fact that he was present at, and participated with the hanging and drowning of at least 6 dogs. There have also been several dog fighters come forward, anonymously of course, that said he was at some of the fights and one called him a big man in the scene because of his high dollar better habits.
I wont call it a mistake because mistakes dont happen continuously over at least 7 years. I do think he has done his time and he should be allowed to rejoin the human race, but that doesnt mean the NFL should allow him back within their ranks. I hope Goddell stands up and tells him that he went too far and he is no longer eligible to play NFL football.
yeah i just meant to say....people are talking about how he could relapse....this isn't a drug addiction or a chemical addiction, its just some dude making side money...the wrong wrong way...he got busted, im sure he would not do that crap again. lol
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Gambling is an addiction, no matter how much money you have. What makes you so sure he wont do it again?
EXACTLY.
And only point I have left besdies for the fact of hating him and thinking that he is a cold hearted motherfucker, is that he should not be a spokes person for them. That is insane.
Hey go shake a few babies and then work for the March of Dimes....I mean wtf?!
I have no respect for people that abuse animals....or dont take care of them properly....it is rediculous!! No excuses!!!
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