One of the hardest CRXs I have ever seen.

[Bug-Rex]

This crx for this matter, does not reach and with hold speeds above 90MPH for a very long time (track dependent) from what I can tell, but I do not know everything about the car . Therefore the wing serves no purpose in creating usable down-force. It is instead creating a greater coefficient of drag, when I think it would be better off reducing it coefficient of drag. Instead of trying to produce D/F, I would consider trying to reduce its calculated blockage, and, try to create suction rather than D/F.

[BABY J]

Im sorry EJ, but the CRX is sick. Its a track car (could also be his time attack car) and the wing is there for one reason...downforce. If you know how setups work, wings on FWD cars is great.

Also for those who say autocross cars are nothing...your extremely wrong. Miata mike can chime in on this.

DING DING DING we have a winner.

The people that don't think a wing works on FWD obv have never have a FWD car over 90mph. It gets hairy. In addition to that, the EF is prob worse than all of the generations. High speed stability is achieved EVEN ON FWD w/ the addition of a LIGHTWEIGHT well designed air-foil.

Please don't make me post data. Just nod your head and agree.

[BABY J]

This crx for this matter, does not reach and with hold speeds above 90MPH for a very long time (track dependent) from what I can tell, but I do not know everything about the car . Therefore the wing serves no purpose in creating usable down-force. It is instead creating a greater coefficient of drag, when I think it would be better off reducing it coefficient of drag. Instead of trying to produce D/F, I would consider trying to reduce its calculated blockage, and, try to create suction rather than D/F.

It doesn't reach 90mph? You know this how?

[Bug-Rex]

Yes yes yes, but we were not talking about all FWD cars. We were, or I was at least, discussing the CRX that this thread is dedicated to.

[Bug-Rex]

It doesn't reach 90mph? You know this how?

I said I do not know this, but I am guessing that it does not hold this speed very long on a time attack course.

[matthewAPM]

I agree 100%.

A little setup FWD facts for a few people: As some know, rotation is what makes a FWD car fast (big rear bar, high rear rates, etc etc). For low speed corners, you want a good amount of rotation to get the car through the middle of the corner. At high speeds, you dont want as much rotation on the car (we are not drifters) so you use a wing to keep the rotation down. It makes it like you have 2 setups, one high speed, one low speed.

[matthewAPM]

I said I do not know this, but I am guessing that it does not hold this speed very long on a time attack course.

Even at say 90 that wing is making just enough downforce, to make a difference. It doesnt take much to make a car stable at 60+

[Bug-Rex]

Everything discussed here is just speculation for a car none of us hardly know anything about.

Period.

[BABY J]

This crx for this matter, does not reach and with hold speeds above 90MPH for a very long time (track dependent) from what I can tell, but I do not know everything about the car . Therefore the wing serves no purpose in creating usable down-force. It is instead creating a greater coefficient of drag, when I think it would be better off reducing it coefficient of drag. Instead of trying to produce D/F, I would consider trying to reduce its calculated blockage, and, try to create suction rather than D/F.

Grrrr. And you work w/ Formula 5 cars --- amazing. Some1 needs their money back.

Most FF cars have a front-rear balance ratio somewhere between 60/40 and 52/48 (you can google this). Adding downforce to the rear helps balance the car @ speed and keep the rear end stable. You may say why not do this with ballast?? Why? B/c ballast is dead weight. ALSO to do it w/ ballast where it's needed in a FF application is a death-sentence b/c you are adding that weight over the rear wheels. This negates the traction that ALL high(er) powered FF configurations need. A properly tuned/placed wing is 1) lightweight, and adds VARIABLE balance (based on vehicle speed).

I suggest you get smart... these guys have won at least once

http://www.realtimerl.com/content/acura-rsx

[Bug-Rex]

Grrrr. And you work w/ Formula 5 cars --- amazing. Some1 needs their money back.

Most FF cars have a front-rear balance ratio somewhere between 60/40 and 52/48 (you can google this). Adding downforce to the rear helps balance the car @ speed and keep the rear end stable. You may say why not do this with ballast?? Why? B/c ballast is dead weight. ALSO to do it w/ ballast where it's needed in a FF application is a death-sentence b/c you are adding that weight over the rear wheels. This negates the traction that ALL high(er) powered FF configurations need. A properly tuned/placed wing is 1) lightweight, and adds VARIABLE balance (based on vehicle speed).

I suggest you get smart... these guys have won at least once

http://www.realtimerl.com/content/acura-rsx

Pointless.

I don't know why people think I am against wings.

For the 5th and last time, I was referring to the the CRX that this thread was made for. Not FF cars, not that Acura team. Please chill out and lay off. I am sorry I offended you.

I would like to know your opinion if the CRX that was posted in THIS thread benefits from that wing.

[BABY J]

Everything discussed here is just speculation for a car none of us hardly know anything about.

Period.

No1 is speculating anything but you. That car can not even have an engine it and that doesn't change the fact that a vehicle (ANY vehicle) traveling at speed can potentially benefit from a REAL wing placed and tuned properly. You can post any car in the world, not just this one. Since you like to assume, you can ASSUME that a purpose built track car (road-race, drag, rally, you name it) will attain speeds needed for the air-foil to work. The car posted in this thread IS a purpose-built car.

I agree w/ your comment about drag. But the fact that drag is needed to produce downforce over an air-foil is negated by how efficient that air-foil is.

[matthewAPM]

EVEN IF THE CAR IS NOT SEEING MORE THAN 90 AVERAGES ONLY 60, THE WING IS WORKING.

[BABY J]

EVEN IF THE CAR IS NOT SEEING MORE THAN 90 AVERAGES ONLY 60, THE WING IS WORKING.

Thank you sir. Will you marry me?

[matthewAPM]

im down lulz

Some people just dont understand...

[Bug-Rex]

No1 is speculating anything but you. That car can not even have an engine it and that doesn't change the fact that a vehicle (ANY vehicle) traveling at speed can potentially benefit from a REAL wing placed and tuned properly. You can post any car in the world, not just this one. Since you like to assume, you can ASSUME that a purpose built track car (road-race, drag, rally, you name it) will attain speeds needed for the air-foil to work. The car posted in this thread IS a purpose-built car.

I agree w/ your comment about drag. But the fact that drag is needed to produce downforce over an air-foil is negated by how efficient that air-foil is.

I'm pretty sure after I said the wing is not needed, everyone speculated that it was a fully built race car, and started blabbering on about how it did.

You are preaching to the choir when talking about purpose built track car. But, the CRX may be purpose built, but we are unclear if it is indeed "built."

[Bug-Rex]

EVEN IF THE CAR IS NOT SEEING MORE THAN 90 AVERAGES ONLY 60, THE WING IS WORKING.

Agreed, but to what extent? Is there an advantage of not having it on?

I think we are all on the same page but don't know it. Hopefully this thread will teach someone something about aero though.

[matthewAPM]

Who fucking cares if it its a race car, or a track car, or a time attack car, or his DD that he tracks. Fact is, wings work. Some work better than others. But when you can put even 20lbs where you need it, when you need it...it works.

[Bug-Rex]

Who fucking cares if it its a race car, or a track car, or a time attack car, or his DD that he tracks. Fact is, wings work. Some work better than others. But when you can put even 20lbs where you need it, when you need it...it works.

Agreed again, but you can't convince me that a wing like that has any advantage on an autox course...

[BABY J]

I'm pretty sure after I said the wing is not needed, everyone speculated that it was a fully built race car, and started blabbering on about how it did.

You are preaching to the choir when talking about purpose built track car. But, the CRX may be purpose built, but we are unclear if it is indeed "built."

yeah - this is normal for everyday "Taco Bell" drive-thru shit:

FRONT LIP 3 INCH
FRONT SPLITER
SPORT BIKE MIRRORS
LEXAN WINDOWS
SPARCO FIBER GLASS DRIVER SEAT
SPARCO STEAL FRAMED SEAT
CUSTOM MADE DASH
FLARED REAR FENDERS
CUSTOM REAR WING
SIX POINT ROLL CAGE
UNDER BODY PANEL
REAR DIFFUSER
8 GALLON FUEL CELL
JDM BLACK RACING WHEELS 15X7 +35 OFFSET, 11 LBS EACH
HOOSIER R6 FULL SLICK RACE TIRES 205/50R15


:
(note the FPS: fire supression system)

:

:
AAAHHHHHHHHHHH --- Lexan

:




:::


Yeah - not built.

[BABY J]

Oh yeah... a lil brake ducting also for good measure.

[matthewAPM]

Agreed again, but you can't convince me that a wing like that has any advantage on an autox course...

Where the hell did you get autocross from?? He is at sebring. which means what? THE WING IS ON TRACK AND WORKING. No it wont work in a autocross but obviously he isnt autocrossing is he?

[BABY J]

I think I'm done w/ this topic - it's been fun: Happy racing. To the OP, good find. Be easy.


:

:

[Bug-Rex]

Who fucking cares if it its a race car, or a track car, or a time attack car, or his DD that he tracks. Fact is, wings work. Some work better than others. But when you can put even 20lbs where you need it, when you need it...it works.

You didn't specify that he was at a track which I did not know. Sure they work on that track, but your broad statement that "wings work" led me to believe that you meant any track.

[BABY J]

Hey Bug - where is the wind-tunnel located that you work at?

[matthewAPM]

You didn't specify that he was at a track which I did not know. Sure they work on that track, but your broad statement that "wings work" led me to believe that you meant any track.

Whats there to specify?! The damn pictures should give it away.

And yes, there are wings that work at autocrosses. Tod's AM car makes 1000lbs of down force at 60mph

[Bug-Rex]

Hey Bug - where is the wind-tunnel located that you work at?

Birmingham, Al.

I don't work there, just had access to it when needed.

[Bug-Rex]

Whats there to specify?! The damn pictures should give it away.

And yes, there are wings that work at autocrosses. Tod's AM car makes 1000lbs of down force at 60mph

Depends on the autox track.

[matthewAPM]

Depends on the autox track.

I hope your joking. Really are you that stupid. Who cares where the autocross is at. 60mph is 60mph. Fact is the car makes 1000lbs of DF.

Almost EVERY autocross is 2nd in a 5speed car. Which is 60 or so. For a fast car and open wheel cars is 70-80. And arguing with me about autocross is going to be a waste of your time.

[BABY J]

Save it man - he's the expert. That car isn't even built.

[Bug-Rex]

I hope your joking. Really are you that stupid. Who cares where the autocross is at. 60mph is 60mph. Fact is the car makes 1000lbs of DF.

Almost EVERY autocross is 2nd in a 5speed car. Which is 60 or so. For a fast car and open wheel cars is 70-80. And arguing with me about autocross is going to be a waste of your time.

I did not know you have seen all auto x track setups. Sorry for making you so angry. I personally have been to an autox where 60 mph was not reached. It was a VERY tight course.

I will agree that I am stupid once you tell me you have seen all autox tracks.

[Bug-Rex]

Save it man - he's the expert. That car isn't even built.

Done with this topic, eh?

[BABY J]

Done with this topic, eh?

Dumbness keeps pulling me back in here. You were shut down long ago - yet you are a glutton for punishment.

[matthewAPM]

I did not know you have seen all auto x track setups. Sorry for making you so angry. I personally have been to an autox where 60 mph was not reached. It was a VERY tight course.

I will agree that I am stupid once you tell me you have seen all autox tracks.

Im sorry but a jag club event isnt a real autocross.

Run any SCCA event and you will see 60mph...or you just suck ass.

All friendly talk,

Matthew B.
SCCA Atlanta Region co-Course Designer 2005-2007

[volk_ef9]

i wish i knew where to get a splitter like that when i had my crx thats a nice car though, i commend anyone who does shit theirselves. reps.

[matthewAPM]

I got a friend that has all the designs for front splittlers for EF's if your interested.

[Bug-Rex]

We agree to disagree I guess.

In all honesty though, I would love to get behind the wheel of this thing.

[EJ25RUN]

Im sorry EJ, but the CRX is sick. Its a track car (could also be his time attack car) and the wing is there for one reason...downforce. If you know how setups work, wings on FWD cars is great.

Also for those who say autocross cars are nothing...your extremely wrong. Miata mike can chime in on this.

Why do people keep thinking i don't know this already? If you look at the threads i made in 2007-2008 I'm sure you'd find examples where i am the one arguing for wings on FWD cars.

As i already told Zero Hatch. I was only making the point that i see a lot of CRXs without wings on racetracks. That is all. It is a similar statement to saying, "I see a lot of CRXs in the color black." Nothing more. Nothing less.

Oh, i read too much not to know how setups work. Currently, I'm reading the advantage a top attached rear wing assembly on LMP prototypes that is also found on the RSR's Jaguar GT2.



Just some sidebar: I will be taking an aerodynamics course next semester as well.

[Bug-Rex]

Just some sidebar: I will be taking an aerodynamics course next semester as well.

If they offer it at your school, see if you can get into a course studying the subject matter of Computational Fluid Dynamics. You will learn so much about aero it is an incredible subject.

[EJ25RUN]

If they offer it at your school, see if you can get into a course studying the subject matter of Computational Fluid Dynamics. You will learn so much about aero it is an incredible subject.

I'm in flight school so i have to take Aero but not fluid dynamics. The engineering students have to though.

[Bug-Rex]

What school?