WAR?????? PART 2
Yesterday I started a few threads about the war and it got alot of different reactions, some for it and some against it so I wanna try it again, Im ready for everybodys questions and I wanna hear what everybody thinks about the war that Ive been apart of for the last 10 months of my life? Its in its third year and over 2500 american lives have been lost and I am anxious to know what everyone thinks.
PLZ STAY FOCUS OVER THERE.
I will keep it simple first and then I will respond to all the right wing ppl (jaime,b18). I dont agree with the war and bush, but I do think the u.s. has to stay over in iraq to keep the country from becoming a bigger threat than the old Iraq
Last edited by TIGERJC; 06-08-2006 at 12:21 AM.
2006 Evo IX - Bolt ons
Originally Posted by TIGERJC
PLZ STAY FOCUS OVER THERE.
I will keep it simple first and then I will respond to all the right wing ppl (jaime,b18). I dont agree with the war and bush, but I do think the u.s. has to stay over in iraq to keep the country from becoming a bigger threat than the old Iraq
Boy, you just can't keep my name out of your mouth for some reason, huh???
I already responded to you in the other thread.
Bush haters will not like anything Bush does by definition. Doesn't matter if it's the war or how he wipes his ass. People are still bitter that he got RE-elected that they can't see around that regardless of common sense.
I don't agree with quite a few things our President has and is doing. I'm not a ultra right wing conservative, but I am a realist. Certain things need to get done and it takes MEN with BALLS to do it. Tree huggers and Political correctness has made this country go around their elbow to get to their ass.....yet those same tree huggers and liberal yuppies that want no war, want no drilling for oil, want to stop "global warming"....absolutely LOVE their "freedom" to bitch about a war they're too scared to fight in, like their life in suburbia, and love to show off their BMW to their yuppie friends. Talk about wanting their cake and eating it too.... :jerkit:
This war has been fought on two fronts; Iraq and the media.
Our soooo UN-biased
You know what? The world is a better place today withOUT Saddam Hussein and his regime than it was WITH it. Period. Show me, prove to me, that statement is wrong and I will agree we shouldn't be there. Until then you can bitch and moan and groan with the rest of the yuppified masses that love to drink their $7 Starbucks coffee but yet can't appreciate the simple fact that if a ICBM landed on that Starbucks parking lot.....they'd bitch NOONE did anything to PREVENT "innocent" people from dying..... :jerkit:
Yep, they've SHOWN they have no ill will towards us, can abide by World Law, and can be merciful and good to it's own people.......
You're right, we should have left them all alone and unchecked. Maybe if you saw a map of your area with a big bullseye over YOUR house on Saddam's desk in one of his multi million dollar palaces you'd change your mind then, wouldn't you?
It is completely neccasary for the U.S. to remain in Iraq until this thing is over but I dont see it ending anytime soon, the local forces here are becoming more capable of defending themselves everyday but the U.S. will have to stick around and babysit for a long time to make sure things dont get out of control again.
shit saddam could have done that for us, and he wouldnt have charged us anything
u didnt get the comment
Last edited by TIGERJC; 06-08-2006 at 12:40 AM.
2006 Evo IX - Bolt ons
saddam trained a horrible army that we beat in a matter of days back in the first gulf war. the war were fighting now is totally different from the previous wars the we have been involved in.
I expected alot more people to have somthing to say about this, everyone was all heated yesterday
There were a couple of reasons we could have used to go in. Rights pick the "war on terror" while lefts pick oil. Either way, Sadaam was reason enough IMO. Why do you think you're over there? What do you believe you are fighting for? Good luck and God bless.
I know why Im here, because its my job, the war were fighting is a war on terrorism, it may have started as somthing different but it has ended up being a war against all the people who use bodily harm and death to get what they want.
WOW, great points all throughout that post, finally smebody sees that there are ups and downs to this war but it has already been started and it must be finished, as a soldier in Iraq I can tell you that the main focus of the U.S. troops here now is training up the local forces to defend themselves, we are simply trying to make Iraq a better place for the people that live here, I dont see that as being a horrible thing.
For those who didnt know, ten major terrorists were eliminated today, one of them being the leader of all terrorists and the head of the Al-Quiada in Iraq and another one being the leading bomb supplier to the section of Iraq Im located in.
to add to what jaime said (he pretty much hit everything for me) alot of people over here want to play the race card on bush....LMAO, bush is not a racist. Did you see the votes of how many african americans voted him in?? Secondly, other than protecting OURSELVES, we dont need another reason to invade a country. Idont agree with the fact that we used WMD's as the excuse and havent found them BUT something had to be done or saddam would have. End of story. Anyone over here that is naive enough to think saddam wouldnt have bombed us is a dumbass. Iraq may not have had the technoloy, but money and other pissed off people at the US says Iraq can get bombs here. just my opinion on shit. no matter what you do or who the president is here, 50% of people are going to bitch for four years
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've never been in the millitary. I think you'll find the people whom actually have a chance of being put into harms way, for your sake, have a far greater chance of acctually being affected by "terrorism" than you ever will. You'll complain 'till your blue in the face that liberals and tree huggers never take a stand, your in the same boat as the liberals, just paddling in a diffrent direction. (think of a monkey fucking a football, a whole lot going on, but nothing getting done) Liberals talk, conseratives talk, everyone points fingers, soldiers bleed. It's all too easy to sit at your computer, safe and warm, and rationalize the narrow view you have of the situation. Complete safety has that effect on the population at large. If you are a veteran, well simper fi or hooah, but just from what you've had to say my money is on no.
It's easy to be willing to send people into harms way when you're not one of them. The people in the millitary know this is a chance they'll have to take when they sign up, but they hope carefull consideration and reserve will be used when the decision is made. In the case of Iraq it was not, plain and simple. Afganistan is another situation, and for the most part the opinion differs.
im kind of confused on your post here but if you would have read some of my other posts(search is you friend) you would already know that NO, i am not military but i didnt sign up because of my family situation at the time...
if you consider narrow and incomplete to be pictures and stories from 3 marines, 2 rangers and two of my relatives in the airforce, then you are welcome to that but unless YOU have actually been involved in this war and been to iraq, you really dont have any more room than i do to talk about narrow and incomplete
heres some pictures of my buddys trip to iraq of him. he is a urban combat instructor in the marines so here you go
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
I hate busters, when everyone in the world is happy we know something is wrong, Americans have had so many choices over the years that we bitch about having so many choices, well I dont but alot of Americans do.
some great points by all of you guys. My biggest problem with the war on Iraq, is the fact that the war was almost entirely based on wmd's in iraq. Yes saddam is a evil guy, but he is not the only one in the world. To me, Iraq was not the biggest threat at the time. I feel that u.s. should had focus all of thier attention to Iran and North Korea... I feel the war was started b/c of hidden agendas. To me it was never about wmd or about the freedom of iraqis, b/c there was no planning for the u.s. to be there in Iraq for more than a year.
Tis month 1500 iraqis have died already and its only the 8th of the June. I want the U.S. to succeed in Iraq, b/c we are over now. That doesn't mean that I agree with the war. To me if it was about wmd's and fighting fir freedom, the u.s would be in one of the many African countries fighting right now if that was true.
Who said anything about race b18?? I dont think he is racist at all, but I do think he is a sorry ass president
2006 Evo IX - Bolt ons
that is true, the US has bigger threats and why Iraq was first I dont know but it was and the american people need to accept that, as far as other countrys, dont worry Iran will fall to the ground very soon cuse we arent gonna fuck around when we attack them, there Army is a modern army like ours, amybe not as good as hours but they are not gonna lay down for us, alot of explosives will be used to make that one quick and painless.
i dont have to accept a god damn thing.
2006 Evo IX - Bolt ons
You dont have to accept it but it is reality, being ignorant is just a birth defct I guess
So I dont have the right to agree or disagree and I should aways follow my leader. yes we are there and I believe its a mistake. we are in a iraq now, that doesnt mean bush is off the hook just b/c we are in a war.
2006 Evo IX - Bolt ons
you have all the rights you want thanks to the fact that america dont take shit from anybody. How is it a mistake to elimate people that are a threat to inocent people, people that use any means they need to in order to get things such as free gas and food. The war is ridding the world of people who pose a threat to the freedom of free countrys. The people that this war is eliminating are the people that threaten all the free countrys in our globe, those people have no place in our world.
iraq was not that big of a threat to the u.s., where are the wmds and all the huge stock piles of chemical weapons that he was ready to launch. WHERE IS IT AT????? Right onw many iraqis dont have power, security, food and a lot of iraqis are asking themeselves is this democracy.
I don't blame iraq for not allowing ppl to see if they had wmds or not. Guess who is thier fucking neighbor, IRAN. I wouldnt want abybody to know what I had, if I had a enemy next door to me that has a nuclear facility and hates my guts.
2006 Evo IX - Bolt ons
Show some data to back that up. I can google freakin' Saddam and SHOW you actual footage of what he SAID he was going to do TO us given the chance. He thumbed his nose at the pansy UN. He thumbed his nose at the world when they would not allow inspectors in when the INSPECTORS wanted to. Finally, he thumbed his nose at the U.S. and basically said, "come get me". We did and now the tree huggers are whining.
Probably buried somewhere in the million square mile sandbox that is that country. The politically correct pansy ass U.S. hatin' U.N. gave them what???....50 ANNOUNCED warnings giving them MONTHS to hide or destroy anything..... :jerkit:where are the wmds and all the huge stock piles of chemical weapons that he was ready to launch. WHERE IS IT AT?????
Where do you get this stuff from? Show me ANY proof that the majority of Iraqis think democracy sucks. I bet you can't. You are just pulling these things out of thin air.Right onw many iraqis dont have power, security, food and a lot of iraqis are asking themeselves is this democracy.
Common sense says that after decades of tyranny and murder ANY human being would look forward to ANY relief. The opposition right now are the minority which were probably getting something from that regime or want to hold on to power for themselves.
How come there was cheering in the streets today when they killed Al-Karsawi (sp?)?
#1 that's not a choice they have. Due to their OWN actions in truly attacking a neighbor FOR OIL, they have to DEAL with the sanctions levied against them in accordance to their surrender back in 1991. For YEARS, they didn't comply and the sissy ass U.N. let them get away with it.I don't blame iraq for not allowing ppl to see if they had wmds or not. Guess who is thier fucking neighbor, IRAN. I wouldnt want abybody to know what I had, if I had a enemy next door to me that has a nuclear facility and hates my guts.
#2 the entire world knows how many weapons WE have, why can't we (world) know how many and what kind of weapons a country that has a shaky dictatorship with a HISTORY of killing it's OWN people to test their own weapons????? Why not? The U.N. resolution said AND Iraq AGREED to do just that. Why all of a sudden made Hussein be able to unilaterally change that without any repercussions? Wouldn't that set an ugly precedent of any resolution not being worth the paper it's printed on if we allowed a country to call for mercy, only to buy time to regroup and plot again????? USE COMMON SENSE.
Show me one good reason FOR Saddam still being in power. ONE.
You can only fight 1 war at a time. Korea, Iran, Africa......in due time if need be.
Show one reason why the result is not valid.
+1....and as for everyone complaining about all of the soliders that have died...25-30 people die in murder related in detriot cases every month(thats only one US city, think about all the others). I'm not saying that i don't care about the soliders, but if people want to complain about people dieing, just look around). Hundards of thousands of people can live there lives because saddam is in captivity. And as for if we should be at war, YES! for what reason? I'm sorry, we were attacked on Sep. 11th, thousands of INNOCENT people died. Is that a good enough reason for us to be at war??Show some data to back that up. I can google freakin' Saddam and SHOW you actual footage of what he SAID he was going to do TO us given the chance. He thumbed his nose at the pansy UN. He thumbed his nose at the world when they would not allow inspectors in when the INSPECTORS wanted to. Finally, he thumbed his nose at the U.S. and basically said, "come get me". We did and now the tree huggers are whining.
Probably buried somewhere in the million square mile sandbox that is that country. The politically correct pansy ass U.S. hatin' U.N. gave them what???....50 ANNOUNCED warnings giving them MONTHS to hide or destroy anything..... :jerkit:
Where do you get this stuff from? Show me ANY proof that the majority of Iraqis think democracy sucks. I bet you can't. You are just pulling these things out of thin air.
Common sense says that after decades of tyranny and murder ANY human being would look forward to ANY relief. The opposition right now are the minority which were probably getting something from that regime or want to hold on to power for themselves.
How come there was cheering in the streets today when they killed Al-Karsawi (sp?)?
#1 that's not a choice they have. Due to their OWN actions in truly attacking a neighbor FOR OIL, they have to DEAL with the sanctions levied against them in accordance to their surrender back in 1991. For YEARS, they didn't comply and the sissy ass U.N. let them get away with it.
#2 the entire world knows how many weapons WE have, why can't we (world) know how many and what kind of weapons a country that has a shaky dictatorship with a HISTORY of killing it's OWN people to test their own weapons????? Why not? The U.N. resolution said AND Iraq AGREED to do just that. Why all of a sudden made Hussein be able to unilaterally change that without any repercussions? Wouldn't that set an ugly precedent of any resolution not being worth the paper it's printed on if we allowed a country to call for mercy, only to buy time to regroup and plot again????? USE COMMON SENSE.
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Great point, more Americans do die in America everyday than in the so called horrible war but one difference is that the ones that die in America leave there house everyday expecting to return home at the end of the day, when we leave we dont know what to expect, when I leave I know there is a strong possibility that myself or my friends might not make it back without serious injury or may never come back at all. We know to do whatever we can to see that our safety and our buddies safety is first priority.
I never complained about people dying, I've seen more death than 95% of the people on this board. Soldiers know damn good and well that dying and killing are in the job description. Afganistan was the result of an attack on our country by an uncoventional enemy, and as such an unconventional responce was used. That responce was generally more widely accepted by Americans and the global community, and is justified, although a little iffy, under chapter 51 of the UN charter.
The basis on which the war with Iraq was founded was; insufficent, losely compiled from sources with questionable creditability, as of yet is unfounded almost in it's entirety, and in violation of UN policy and decree. The UN was setup after WWll and acted as a succesor to the League of Nations. It's main purpose was to prevent Actions like those commited by Germany, unfounded agression towards peace, stability, human rights, and the like. The US went before the UN and lost it's case, plain and simple. They then managed to shoot most of the world the bird by acting on it's own. The salt in the wound is that for the better part the UN resolutions and actions were effective in their goals, which we voted on, allbeit narrow goals and the actions laden with a little corruption. The UN isn't perfect, nor is the US government.
This has opened up the door for other countries to express a desire to harm or enguage in conflict with this country based on percived threats (Iran). This is the precedence our actions, and the mannor in which we justified them, have established. However Iran has a better case: unfounded agression aganist a sovereign nation, actions contrary the UN charter and decree, stockpiling of chemicial, biological, and nuclear weapons, just to name a few. We have done more harm to the stability of the world through our actions than Iraq could ever do in it's post Gulf War l state. The results of our actions will become more clear as your childern inherit what we've left for them.
You can believe the war is justified, but I guarantee your basis for those belifes are compiled from a narrow and incomlpete examination and understanding of the wider implications. Like you pointed out you are statistically more likely to die living in the US, than in the war zone, and on the same note you are statistically even less likely to die from the acts of actual terrorism. Statistics aren't a substitution for knowlege, they're a tool for pacifing peoples need and/or desire to rationalize the variables in the equation.
Last edited by Big J; 06-16-2006 at 03:02 PM.
Sadaam was harboring terrorists. He was stockpiling chemical weapons. We know this because he was using them on his own people as well as the Kuwaities. One of Sadaam's leutenants(sp) appeared on CNN a couple monthes after we invaded stating that the chemical and biological agents were shipped in convoys to Syria the moment the US crossed the border. WMD's were one of 16 counts of war against Sadaam. At the end of Desert storm Sadaam agreed to allow UN weapons inspectors into his country to screen for WMD's and chemical weps. He refused to give them access to his facilities. He may not have had nuclear capabilities at the time we invaded, but it is common knowledge that the was in the market. Iran doesn't have a running nuclear program and hopefully they never will. We don't fuck with North Korea because they have hundreds of nuclear ICBM's and Kim Jong whatever his last name is is crazy enough to use them. Iraq is in the reconstruction phase. That's why we are over there now.
As for the wars in Africa. Hit up Google and run a search on "Executive Outcomes." They were a freelance group of soldiers for hire who faught wars on behalf of the African governments and did this with astounding success. The reason they aren't over there still would be because Bill Clinton and the UN made them pull out and cancel their contracts. Executive Outcomes offered to go into Rwanda and the Clinton administration said "NO." The UN sent in 300,000 peacekeepers to stabilize Sierra Lionne and the rebels took it back. I would rather have a president who is willing to do what is necessary and defend those who can't defend themselves than a Democrat who would rather get paid for the weapons he's selling to African rebels so they can maim and murder civillians.
whether they had wmds or not they told us they did and they made verbal threats to the US and we need to let people know that we wont take that shit. Iran is talking the same shit and the end is near for them as well. The US has to let everybody know that we mean buisness, its not about what these other countrys say they are packing, its about the threats they are making on our country and the busters like yourself need to be thanking people like myself for defending your honor and freedom, I dont expect to be worshipped by every american I only expect the respect of the fuckin busters who sit at home and watch the news and bitch about the way that these poor countrys are being mistreated or how the american soldiers who have volunteered to do the job they do are forced to do a job they dont want to, every person who is here or who has been here has voluteered to do the job we do.
Buster, don't go calling ppl names. U want to have a fucking discussion about Iraq, not everyone is going to agree with everything and you need to fucking understand that. If you want to hear a lot of praise by ppl back at home, go to the damn whoreslounge. I appreaciate you and everyone that serves in the military, b/c yall are fighting for our country. I really wish you would get out of this section of the forum, u need to stay focus over there. I dont agree with the war or you, but I want all of our men and women to come home safe
2006 Evo IX - Bolt ons
im sure the reasons for us invading iraq are deeper than anyone outside the pentagon and the whitehouse could understand, im about 99 percent sure that the american people dont know the whole story about our invasion but we did it and I think all the american people can do is support the men and women who are fighting for the country or have faught for the country. hating on the president is one thing but hating on the troops seems a little unfair to me, somebody had to step up to do the job, and the hatred aimed towards the soldiers by some american people will always keep me wondering what we did to deserve it.
95% is is an estimate but 6 yrs as an EMT, emergency room tech, and Army medic pretty much put's me at the top.
Since we joined and agreed, allbeit in good faith, to abide to the charter of the UN, accept the responsibilities as a member nation and permanant member of the Security Council.
As for permission, we don't have to wait or be granted permission for anything, but we are, as agreed apon as a condition of membership, subject to the power of sanction, blockade, or military action, ect. as decreed by the UN (not that they'd ever actually do anything)
It is not OUR best intrests they work to protect, it is the collectives best intrest. Just because we don't get our way doesn't give us a reason to cry about it. "We here in the US are limited to having paved roads, free education, tecnogicaly advanced health care, etc. Who cares about global aids and starving people, US, US, US, wahhhh"
Who says Ray's method of chosing paint is wrong. If you agreed <----remember that word.... to let him help you choose you would face a delima: use the paint he chose, or switch it out when he wasn't looking
What you fail to realize is UN peacekeepers die as the result of UN action protecting people. The disarmament agreement involved nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons, and delivery methods (missles w/ a range greater than 150 miles) NOT most coventional weapons, let's clear that up. The UN is a topic ignored in the US, a body that is misunderstood, discreidited, and belittled. If you had a need for, and they delivered food and water to you you'd probably feel diffrently. OUR need for the UN, is almost nonexistant in any capacity that effects our daily lives, and as such is easily written off by the majority of the American public.
Hmmmm, is that the same U.N. you would have dictate what WE need to do to defend ourselves?????? :jerkit:
The U.N. is about as good as a kick in the nuts, and as worthless as the IRS.
We liked either Iraq or Iran since when? Know anything about the Iran-Contra Affair? Who was fighting who? Who was getting weapons? That's not politically correct, very little we do is politically correct.And Iran liked us since when??????
That's a question I can't answer, that's a question noone can answer. How much wood would a wood chuck? It's simply a distraction used by you in an attempt to offer a substitution, for the truth, that somehow Sadam wasn't just a good enough reason to go to war but is the reason. He swore to kill me, didn't happen, wasn't worried. The issue is the pretences for this war were false, thay have been proven to be so far. I'm never going to be comfortable with the substitution of that reason for the orginal, or liberating the Iraqi people. So if the reason changes again, are you goint to push it along with this one too?
I simply don't have the time to refute all your points but I will this one, and any other you specifically ask me to.
You seem to think terrorism is a threat that surrounds you. You have a far greater threat of losing some bit of freedom to the war on terror than you do terror itself. If you would gladly give up what was the foundation of this country because some people hate us for what we have and have accomplished, the terrorists had the desired effect.
From wikipedia: Terrorism refers to a strategy of using violence, social threats, or coordinated attacks, in order to generate fear, cause disruption, and ultimately, bring about compliance with specified political, religious, or ideological demands. The targets of terrorist attacks typically are not the individuals who are killed, injured, or taken hostage, but rather the societies to which these individuals belong. Terrorism is designed to subvert existing political atmospheres, often with the aid of the mass media's influence. Other intended effects of terrorist activities on targeted societies include the curtailment of civilian standards of living and civil liberties associated with greater security demands, economic hardship linked to the costs of war, hopelessness to defend against assaults, depression, and disintegration of morale. These objectives are parallel to the objectives of unconventional warfare.
Duly noted.
You proved my point. The U.N. is about as useful and fair as the IRS is to each and everyone of us. So why in the world would we want to follow or worse....be TOLD/DICTATED what to do by an organization like that? Name ONE thing that the U.N. GIVES the U.S. that the U.S. couldn't get on it's own.As for permission, we don't have to wait or be granted permission for anything, but we are, as agreed apon as a condition of membership, subject to the power of sanction, blockade, or military action, ect. as decreed by the UN (not that they'd ever actually do anything)
The U.N. "sanctions" are only as good as the countries that are willing to follow. Much like laws are only really followed by law abiding citizens and criminals wipe their hind quarters with them. Same with U.N. sanctions and actions (or lack thereof actually). Financial burdens or slaps on the wrists do absolutely nothing to tyrants and extremists hell bent on their own agenda. So sometimes force needs to be met with force, if for nothing else to prevent even worse tyrants and extremists from thinking they too can do it only better.
YOU as an EMT and public servant should know this fact first hand. How many policemen do you know that were there when a crime OCCURED? How many EMT's happen to be there when an accident happened? They do their job to pick up the pieces AFTER something happens 99.9% of the time, right? So therefore WHO should be vigilant and responsible as FIRST LINE of DEFENSE 100% of the time????? OURSELVES. The same idea should be in place for our country and it's well being. Why should we depend on the U.N. or anyone else to determine when and how we see fit to defend ourselves, be it pre-emptive or be it provoked or be it well deserved???? That's like saying that you don't want to put an alarm in your house or car because you KNOW the police will make sure nothing ever happens to you. How could they? It's impossible 99.9% of the time. Same with the U.N.
See above.It is not OUR best intrests they work to protect, it is the collectives best intrest. Just because we don't get our way doesn't give us a reason to cry about it.
Since when is the U.N. looking out for OUR best interest? NEVER. We absolutely have every right to look out for ourselves.
The U.N. WAS consulted and even asked for permission BEFORE launching the first troop to Iraq. They BS'd around and sided with chicken shit French, Germans, and their own politically correct interests. The U.S. THEN decided, "hey, you're not going to look out for us, we'll do it ourselves....". End of discussion.
Anyone that has WORKING eyes.....Who says Ray's method of chosing paint is wrong.
Even best friends can and do disagree. Does that mean they're no longer best friends? Maybe. Maybe not. Point is that you don't have to agree just to be a pacifist and take the easy way out. Sometimes you have to take a stand, and our security is just as good a reason IMO as any. We've fought for far less before and never heard anywhere near as much for it.
Exactly. Once again you've proven my point again. WHY do we NEED the U.N. if it is going to fight us tooth and nail everytime we go to it for something?What you fail to realize is UN peacekeepers die as the result of UN action protecting people. The disarmament agreement involved nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons, and delivery methods (missles w/ a range greater than 150 miles) NOT most coventional weapons, let's clear that up. The UN is a topic ignored in the US, a body that is misunderstood, discreidited, and belittled. If you had a need for, and they delivered food and water to you you'd probably feel diffrently. OUR need for the UN, is almost nonexistant in any capacity that effects our daily lives, and as such is easily written off by the majority of the American public.
BTW, have you looked at the figures of how much the U.S. gives out in AID every single year? Compare that to the U.N. (which gets it's "aid" from MULTIPLE countries
The U.N. is the Post Office idea of the world....a good idea initially, but far outdated and soon to be unnecessary due to the ever changing world. When we had Axis powers and the Cold War, it was vital to have a neutral and diplomatic avenue to communicate to AVOID world catastrophe of Nuclear War. Now, the U.N. tries to regulate the world the same way eventhough the threats are totally different. Trying to put out a fire by spitting on it. Doesn't work.
If you were a burglar that got a HEADS UP on police coming to your house to find your hidden loot and you buried it in your backyard......does that change the fact that A: you're still a criminal, B: you still stole something, and C: you still have access to it??????That's a question I can't answer, that's a question noone can answer. How much wood would a wood chuck? It's simply a distraction used by you in an attempt to offer a substitution, for the truth, that somehow Sadam wasn't just a good enough reason to go to war but is the reason. He swore to kill me, didn't happen, wasn't worried. The issue is the pretences for this war were false, thay have been proven to be so far. I'm never going to be comfortable with the substitution of that reason for the orginal, or liberating the Iraqi people. So if the reason changes again, are you goint to push it along with this one too?
The world stood by while the inept U.N. tried to "police" and enforce something Iraq VOLUNTARILY AGREED TO back in 1991 (more than a decade ago I remind you). Iraq unilaterally picked what part of that they would follow AFTER. Why is that allowed without so much upheaval, but when the U.S. does what the U.N. SHOULD HAVE DONE years ago.....it's suddenly a big to do????
It's this exact mentality that the terrorist community banks on. "We're the little guy in the corner...", "We are in far away lands...", "You're perfectly safe forever...." Ask any of the family members of 9/11 victims if they still feel that way.You seem to think terrorism is a threat that surrounds you. You have a far greater threat of losing some bit of freedom to the war on terror than you do terror itself. If you would gladly give up what was the foundation of this country because some people hate us for what we have and have accomplished, the terrorists had the desired effect.
People here have a similar mentality about crime at home. IF criminals KNEW that there was a HIGH probability their "victims" would have the ability to fight back and possibly reverse the tables.......would they be as quick to try their crime? Absolutely not. Why? Because there are far more weaker and easier targets elsewhere. Why would you roll over and play dead then?
So if you let Iraq do as it pleases, what would stop any other from doing so? This is how world wars get started. Unchecked abuse of power that directly points at eliminating everything and everyone that doesn't agree with you.
http://forums.importatlanta.com/showthread.php?t=67012
This is but ONE of many examples of PUBLICIZED plots, let alone how many (due to security) are NOT even known to John Q public. Yet there are still people that believe that terrorism is only a passing thing and not something we need to worry about......
Like I said, that's exactly what the terrorists are banking on to make us let our guard down long enough for them to park another airplane into another building or build a home-made bomb to go off in the middle of a shopping mall or ballgame.
...i think that how we just nailed al-zippo-whathisname 20km north of baghdad is proof enough that we're doing the right thing by being there. I'd rather have a war over in another country now than one on this soil in 30 years. I believe that the war on terrorism will go on for the rest of our lives... but if it's keeping America safer by doing so (which it is, by nippin' a problem in the bud), then it's 100% justified and something that needs to be done.
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