you have all the rights you want thanks to the fact that america dont take shit from anybody. How is it a mistake to elimate people that are a threat to inocent people, people that use any means they need to in order to get things such as free gas and food. The war is ridding the world of people who pose a threat to the freedom of free countrys. The people that this war is eliminating are the people that threaten all the free countrys in our globe, those people have no place in our world.
iraq was not that big of a threat to the u.s., where are the wmds and all the huge stock piles of chemical weapons that he was ready to launch. WHERE IS IT AT????? Right onw many iraqis dont have power, security, food and a lot of iraqis are asking themeselves is this democracy.Originally Posted by bdydrpddualy
I don't blame iraq for not allowing ppl to see if they had wmds or not. Guess who is thier fucking neighbor, IRAN. I wouldnt want abybody to know what I had, if I had a enemy next door to me that has a nuclear facility and hates my guts.
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Show some data to back that up. I can google freakin' Saddam and SHOW you actual footage of what he SAID he was going to do TO us given the chance. He thumbed his nose at the pansy UN. He thumbed his nose at the world when they would not allow inspectors in when the INSPECTORS wanted to. Finally, he thumbed his nose at the U.S. and basically said, "come get me". We did and now the tree huggers are whining.
Probably buried somewhere in the million square mile sandbox that is that country. The politically correct pansy ass U.S. hatin' U.N. gave them what???....50 ANNOUNCED warnings giving them MONTHS to hide or destroy anything..... :jerkit:where are the wmds and all the huge stock piles of chemical weapons that he was ready to launch. WHERE IS IT AT?????
Where do you get this stuff from? Show me ANY proof that the majority of Iraqis think democracy sucks. I bet you can't. You are just pulling these things out of thin air.Right onw many iraqis dont have power, security, food and a lot of iraqis are asking themeselves is this democracy.
Common sense says that after decades of tyranny and murder ANY human being would look forward to ANY relief. The opposition right now are the minority which were probably getting something from that regime or want to hold on to power for themselves.
How come there was cheering in the streets today when they killed Al-Karsawi (sp?)?
#1 that's not a choice they have. Due to their OWN actions in truly attacking a neighbor FOR OIL, they have to DEAL with the sanctions levied against them in accordance to their surrender back in 1991. For YEARS, they didn't comply and the sissy ass U.N. let them get away with it.I don't blame iraq for not allowing ppl to see if they had wmds or not. Guess who is thier fucking neighbor, IRAN. I wouldnt want abybody to know what I had, if I had a enemy next door to me that has a nuclear facility and hates my guts.
#2 the entire world knows how many weapons WE have, why can't we (world) know how many and what kind of weapons a country that has a shaky dictatorship with a HISTORY of killing it's OWN people to test their own weapons????? Why not? The U.N. resolution said AND Iraq AGREED to do just that. Why all of a sudden made Hussein be able to unilaterally change that without any repercussions? Wouldn't that set an ugly precedent of any resolution not being worth the paper it's printed on if we allowed a country to call for mercy, only to buy time to regroup and plot again????? USE COMMON SENSE.
Show me one good reason FOR Saddam still being in power. ONE.
You can only fight 1 war at a time. Korea, Iran, Africa......in due time if need be.
Show one reason why the result is not valid.
+1....and as for everyone complaining about all of the soliders that have died...25-30 people die in murder related in detriot cases every month(thats only one US city, think about all the others). I'm not saying that i don't care about the soliders, but if people want to complain about people dieing, just look around). Hundards of thousands of people can live there lives because saddam is in captivity. And as for if we should be at war, YES! for what reason? I'm sorry, we were attacked on Sep. 11th, thousands of INNOCENT people died. Is that a good enough reason for us to be at war??Show some data to back that up. I can google freakin' Saddam and SHOW you actual footage of what he SAID he was going to do TO us given the chance. He thumbed his nose at the pansy UN. He thumbed his nose at the world when they would not allow inspectors in when the INSPECTORS wanted to. Finally, he thumbed his nose at the U.S. and basically said, "come get me". We did and now the tree huggers are whining.
Probably buried somewhere in the million square mile sandbox that is that country. The politically correct pansy ass U.S. hatin' U.N. gave them what???....50 ANNOUNCED warnings giving them MONTHS to hide or destroy anything..... :jerkit:
Where do you get this stuff from? Show me ANY proof that the majority of Iraqis think democracy sucks. I bet you can't. You are just pulling these things out of thin air.
Common sense says that after decades of tyranny and murder ANY human being would look forward to ANY relief. The opposition right now are the minority which were probably getting something from that regime or want to hold on to power for themselves.
How come there was cheering in the streets today when they killed Al-Karsawi (sp?)?
#1 that's not a choice they have. Due to their OWN actions in truly attacking a neighbor FOR OIL, they have to DEAL with the sanctions levied against them in accordance to their surrender back in 1991. For YEARS, they didn't comply and the sissy ass U.N. let them get away with it.
#2 the entire world knows how many weapons WE have, why can't we (world) know how many and what kind of weapons a country that has a shaky dictatorship with a HISTORY of killing it's OWN people to test their own weapons????? Why not? The U.N. resolution said AND Iraq AGREED to do just that. Why all of a sudden made Hussein be able to unilaterally change that without any repercussions? Wouldn't that set an ugly precedent of any resolution not being worth the paper it's printed on if we allowed a country to call for mercy, only to buy time to regroup and plot again????? USE COMMON SENSE.
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Great point, more Americans do die in America everyday than in the so called horrible war but one difference is that the ones that die in America leave there house everyday expecting to return home at the end of the day, when we leave we dont know what to expect, when I leave I know there is a strong possibility that myself or my friends might not make it back without serious injury or may never come back at all. We know to do whatever we can to see that our safety and our buddies safety is first priority.
I never complained about people dying, I've seen more death than 95% of the people on this board. Soldiers know damn good and well that dying and killing are in the job description. Afganistan was the result of an attack on our country by an uncoventional enemy, and as such an unconventional responce was used. That responce was generally more widely accepted by Americans and the global community, and is justified, although a little iffy, under chapter 51 of the UN charter.
The basis on which the war with Iraq was founded was; insufficent, losely compiled from sources with questionable creditability, as of yet is unfounded almost in it's entirety, and in violation of UN policy and decree. The UN was setup after WWll and acted as a succesor to the League of Nations. It's main purpose was to prevent Actions like those commited by Germany, unfounded agression towards peace, stability, human rights, and the like. The US went before the UN and lost it's case, plain and simple. They then managed to shoot most of the world the bird by acting on it's own. The salt in the wound is that for the better part the UN resolutions and actions were effective in their goals, which we voted on, allbeit narrow goals and the actions laden with a little corruption. The UN isn't perfect, nor is the US government.
This has opened up the door for other countries to express a desire to harm or enguage in conflict with this country based on percived threats (Iran). This is the precedence our actions, and the mannor in which we justified them, have established. However Iran has a better case: unfounded agression aganist a sovereign nation, actions contrary the UN charter and decree, stockpiling of chemicial, biological, and nuclear weapons, just to name a few. We have done more harm to the stability of the world through our actions than Iraq could ever do in it's post Gulf War l state. The results of our actions will become more clear as your childern inherit what we've left for them.
You can believe the war is justified, but I guarantee your basis for those belifes are compiled from a narrow and incomlpete examination and understanding of the wider implications. Like you pointed out you are statistically more likely to die living in the US, than in the war zone, and on the same note you are statistically even less likely to die from the acts of actual terrorism. Statistics aren't a substitution for knowlege, they're a tool for pacifing peoples need and/or desire to rationalize the variables in the equation.
Last edited by Big J; 06-16-2006 at 04:02 PM.
How so?
Remember this quote for later.....Soldiers know damn good and well that dying and killing are in the job description. Afganistan was the result of an attack on our country by an uncoventional enemy, and as such an unconventional responce was used. That responce was generally more widely accepted by Americans and the global community, and is justified, although a little iffy, under chapter 51 of the UN charter.
Since when does the U.N. regulate, propose, or direct U.S. policy? Are we not a sovereign nation? Then why do we have to wait on the permission of someone that has CLEARLY NOT had OUR best interest in mind for eons???? That's like asking Ray Charles to help you pick out a color to paint YOUR wall.... :jerkit: .The basis on which the war with Iraq was founded was; insufficent, losely compiled from sources with questionable creditability, as of yet is unfounded almost in it's entirety, and in violation of UN policy and decree.
The UN was setup after WWll and acted as a succesor to the League of Nations. It's main purpose was to prevent Actions like those commited by Germany, unfounded agression towards peace, stability, human rights, and the like. The US went before the UN and lost it's case, plain and simple. They then managed to shoot most of the world the bird by acting on it's own. The salt in the wound is that for the better part the UN resolutions and actions were effective in their goals, which we voted on, allbeit narrow goals and the actions laden with a little corruption. The UN isn't perfect, nor is the US government.
Hmmmm, is that the same U.N. you would have dictate what WE need to do to defend ourselves?????? :jerkit:
The U.N. is about as good as a kick in the nuts, and as worthless as the IRS.
And Iran liked us since when??????This has opened up the door for other countries to express a desire to harm or enguage in conflict with this country based on percived threats (Iran).
This is the precedence our actions, and the mannor in which we justified them, have established. However Iran has a better case: unfounded agression aganist a sovereign nation, actions contrary the UN charter and decree, stockpiling of chemicial, biological, and nuclear weapons, just to name a few. We have done more harm to the stability of the world through our actions than Iraq could ever do in it's post Gulf War l state. The results of our actions will become more clear as your childern inherit what we've left for them.
I've challenged others before and never been taken up on it, so I'll extend the same to you: Show how Saddam being in power was "good" for anyone but Saddam? He killed his own people for pleasure and to test weapons. He was a facist dictator for decades. He opressed his own people for the entire time he was in power. He CAME to power via a coupt, not any ELECTION AT ALL. He harbored and supported terrorists sworn to KILL EACH AND EVERYONE of us, including YOU.
You are right about one thing though. Our children will have to make tough decisions themselves some day because as history has proven, bad men don't just die and go away. There will be other Saddams. There will be other Ossamahs. But what are we to do? Sit in our cozy recliner and say "that's someone else's problem to deal with"???? What's going to happen when another 9/11 occurs? Who are the Liberals going to point their finger of blame to then for not "preventing" this from happening????
You got to rip weeds out by the root. Even if they are to comeback, it will take far longer to come back again than if you just pluck a petal here and there. Liberals want us to coddle criminals that don't give two dead shits about us, their own people, nor the world for that matter.
Statistics, smatistics.....domestic terrorism is not something that can be quantified in numbers. Body bags can be counted, but loss of freedoms can't. How much freedom have we lost, most of which gladly, to secure ourselves after 9/11? How much is YOUR freedom worth?You can believe the war is justified, but I guarantee your basis for those belifes are compiled from a narrow and incomlpete examination and understanding of the wider implications. Like you pointed out you are statistically more likely to die living in the US, than in the war zone, and on the same note you are statistically even less likely to die from the acts of actual terrorism. Statistics aren't a substitution for knowlege, they're a tool for pacifing peoples need and/or desire to rationalize the variables in the equation.
YOU want the U.N. to dictate what those freedoms are? Go for it. Personally, I'd rather have an AMERICAN decide what and AMERICAN is going to do instead of someone that has plenty of hidden agendas with our enemies.
Since you seem to like the U.N. so much, why are you glossing over it's secret ties FOR OIL with Iraq? Why do you think they like to coddle them? Why didn't they call foul when they weren't let in to inspect for WMD? Why did they give them so much heads up when they were coming? Why did they not make a resolution that had any teeth on it when Iraq was clearly in contempt of previous orders?
I'll tell you why: They are a bunch of U.S. hating, ultra liberal, hidden agenda having, run by a bunch of politically correct sissies.....
You want that telling you what to do, fine......move to France.
The fact that hunderds of thousands of people can now live freely and are saved from saddam is a good enough reason to go to war, not to mention 9/11. As for my beliefs being compiled from a narrow minded examination, what more do u need! We were attacked by these terrorist! They have threatend us on numerous occasions. I think its ironic that you're saying i'm close minded because you to are taking one side of the debate. I was giving statistics to show that just because 2500 soliders have died, i think(with no disrespect to soliders) that it is worth freeing the THOUSANDS of people and putting saddam in captivity. People are going to die, and i believe that it is justified. I have tried to look at it from others point of view, i really have. But when you look at the FACTS, i just don't see how people can think its unjustified. If the US didn't do anything, how many innocent lives would you like to see be taken before you think it is "justified" to go to war.
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Sadaam was harboring terrorists. He was stockpiling chemical weapons. We know this because he was using them on his own people as well as the Kuwaities. One of Sadaam's leutenants(sp) appeared on CNN a couple monthes after we invaded stating that the chemical and biological agents were shipped in convoys to Syria the moment the US crossed the border. WMD's were one of 16 counts of war against Sadaam. At the end of Desert storm Sadaam agreed to allow UN weapons inspectors into his country to screen for WMD's and chemical weps. He refused to give them access to his facilities. He may not have had nuclear capabilities at the time we invaded, but it is common knowledge that the was in the market. Iran doesn't have a running nuclear program and hopefully they never will. We don't fuck with North Korea because they have hundreds of nuclear ICBM's and Kim Jong whatever his last name is is crazy enough to use them. Iraq is in the reconstruction phase. That's why we are over there now.
As for the wars in Africa. Hit up Google and run a search on "Executive Outcomes." They were a freelance group of soldiers for hire who faught wars on behalf of the African governments and did this with astounding success. The reason they aren't over there still would be because Bill Clinton and the UN made them pull out and cancel their contracts. Executive Outcomes offered to go into Rwanda and the Clinton administration said "NO." The UN sent in 300,000 peacekeepers to stabilize Sierra Lionne and the rebels took it back. I would rather have a president who is willing to do what is necessary and defend those who can't defend themselves than a Democrat who would rather get paid for the weapons he's selling to African rebels so they can maim and murder civillians.
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