the fact that you keep arguing with these retards amazes me....:thinking:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
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the fact that you keep arguing with these retards amazes me....:thinking:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
LOL! after seeing the vid of u and mike race u and luis(KIZDAWAY) r on the top of my list:goodjob::goodjob:Quote:
Originally Posted by NEMO
x2, discusstion is one thing. arguing.....:gay:Quote:
Originally Posted by punkr6
some people are ignorant as hell that why i stopped answering pm's about people building engines and everything. assholes ask for advice and then go against what i say and tell me what they are going to do wether it works or not even when i tell them it's a bad idea.
people don't realize everything has been done by someone one time or another with good and bad results just because you have the same setup as someone doesn't mean your going to make the same power because every engine is different, but you can't tell people that.
and the reason ctr pistons suck ass is because they are the heaviest piston you can put in engine the dome hurts flame travel in the chamber and for the slight bump in compression and the extra weight the same power can be made with a different piston.
when you get to a certain hp number volumetric efficiency plays a big role in how much air a engine can pump weight matters and what cams work best with a certain compression number are important. thats why the same people keep doing stuff the same way and don't ever have good results is because they have to realize they are not the exception to the rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
i've said this and i usually get this lol:2up:
reps for Vteckidd holding his ground and everything he says makes sense.you dont have to always be using the biggest shit out there cause at one point it doesn't help
biggest shit requires the biggest velocity. And when all your ports are "small" and you have big ass cams the velocity of air going in will be slow making for an inefficient motor. Biggest is only best when you have other parts to accomodate it. That is why so many people are dissapointed when they buy all these "stage 3" cams and have way high compression that don't make shit tons of power. Plus when you have really large cams it's gonna be hard to get enough air in at high speed with vtec at a normal crossover point. Power bands move way up, otherwise you have huge dips in power.
how about i made 300 hp and 240wtq on my d series boosting 10psi
Flat top pistons only, get your compression from the head. I have a fantastic clover leaf P72 head that will yield 13:1, somewhere, never got around to using it. Domes are bad, VE good. To the OP, if your looking for mileage, go with stock. Like Kidd said, stock ITR motor, Pro1's, good header, job done. Ive only built one forged B series that went over 25K miles, all others needed rings at that point.
Lies. :) Give me a xmas tree or statue of liberty topped slug that inhibits airflow into and out of the head and that weighs 8 pounds each. LOL. I also like the fact that said slug breaks the flame front into 2 "separate" explosions in the cylinder - this definitely can decrease the amount of the mixture that gets burned - but that's okay bc I like pissing my fuel away and making less power. Lol. All the kids are doing it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenson
I think people fail to realise that this builds have been going for years. I remember this same BS in 2001.
I'm happy to see where the knowledge has gone:rolleyes:.
Either way Im not one to jump ont he bandwagon But U dont have to listen to vteckidd or anyone else not following your "set up" But take the advise given to u and at least do some homework. dint go by what some shop told you.
I remember getting flamed for degreeing cams in my garage back in Cali. Getting flame by my friends of friends saying well this shop said u didnt need to they just slap it on and made power. wow thats why very few shops are still around
I guess Piston speed, VE, rod ratio,
i cant beleive i missed this thread.
go H!! i made over 200whp
^^^LOL, thats easy though.
lol at this thread just came to see were i was on the list lol. Ill make a deal ill take 4,000 dollars and the k series man takes 4,000 dollars and we will see who makes more power and runs a faster time in the quarter . PS i would like longhorn for supper cause you will be buying it sir. I made 236 with a stock bottom end trying to build a dailey driver and now it makes 252 and gets 34.5 miles to the gallon and is driven every day. Now im building my race car.
You keep saying let me see and how much tq so here is my dyno sheet. Ill make you a deal ill take 4,000 dollars and you take 4,000 dollars and we will build our motors of choice and ill make more horse power and run a faster time at the track you will be buying me long horn that night sir. I have been arguing this point 10 years ago when i was out running all my friends turboed b series with stock h22 for less then 2,000 for the swap. Take a stock h22 or f20b through it in a civic run mid to low 13s for less then 2,000 bone stock no header no nothing . Take a bone stock k series 4-6,000 run low 13s maybe a high 12. Take a stock gsr 4,000 maybe a little less now run 14.2 .now take the extra 2-4,000 dollars left over put it into the h run low 12s now that is facts period nothing to argue there. Spooling which has one of the highest hp b series on here and this man loves his b series will even tell you all motor go with a h simple as that. Go on honda tech pull up this cool ne g build there doing making 255hp with stock shit then look at the date 5 years ago lol none of this new none of its hard what people need to learn its not what you bolt on its how you massage your motor and make everything work as one. Ok buy the most exspensive header now buy the most exspensive head put them together if one has square ports and one has oval ports not gonna make power its got to flow together. I have a stock throttle body and 2.5 inch exaust on the car making 252hp im sure if i put a 70mm throttle body and 3 inch exaust it will pick up 6-10 hp but if im not gonna strip the car and make it a race car that little bit of power on the streat realy doesnt matter to me we will see what the race car does when i finish it . dollar for dollar a h series will make more all motor hp period and i can prove it . Ill bet the guy on ht making 330 hp running 10s with a h series has half of what kseries does making same power remember no replacement for displacment sometimes mike bigger is better lol ha ha. Honestly the head work,cams,pistons and all of this stuff for b,h,and k series cost about the same so there for its just the intial investment that is so much greater which is were the problem is with k series and why i can build a 250 hp h series for what a stock k series cost.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../dalesdyno.jpg
LOL! Man u r funny................ I WILL MAKE U NUMBER ONE ON MY LIST IF U PREFER! Car will b finished soon enough, but honestly do u know my setup??? If u did i SERIOUSLY doubt u would b as confident.Quote:
Originally Posted by h22 jones
PS, where ur tq is at 252whp i would make at least 15lbs more. simple i/h/e and mild cams:goodjob: NOT hard to get a k series(with more tq obvisously) to make ur numbers AT ALL!! VERY VERY VERY SIMPLE!
www.k20a.org:goodjob: u should go there!
nobody is arguing weither its simple or weither your k series is badder its weither you have twice as much money in it as i do for the same if not less hp your answer to that is what? Are you building your motor ? I said it was simple but at the same time for some people its unachievable just depends on how much you know or how deep your pockets are so which one are you mr. deep pockets or mr. smarty pants lol .Realy im just wondering if you buying a bunch of shit you read and bolting it togehter hoping for a number that somebody else made because alot of guys get there feelings hurt that way . If you know how to cc a motor and balance and blue print one ,make everything flow together then congrats your goals are very easy to reach but still gonna cost twice as much because your setup did to start out with whch is my point . You seem to think everybody is bashing k series were i have much respect for them just not for the price thats all.
I posted my dyno chart of a dailey driver that gets 34.5 miles to the gallon that gets driven everyday and still out run most if not all the all motor cars on here on any given day were is yours? If you want respect from me show me a old build show me something anything hell lol just prove that you know your shit ill give you reps instead of throwing out this big number power your gonna make .You know as well as i do half the noobs on here do eactly what you are doing right now hell you might be legit but right now you just another noob to me untill then you no were to make the call outs in the kills forum good luck.
And there using k series pistons in the g build so maybe there is something good out of a k series that doesnt cost more than a new kia lol.
1) The bottom line is this - the K series is NOWHERE near as practical - no matter how much money you make. Will it get there? Sure. But that time is not right now - we still need a million more ricers to crash their RSXs and Acuras :) The ONLY people that think the K makes sense financially are the people that are building one and eating Ramen Noodles everyday. :) TOday you can build a K Killer for MUCH less than it takes to source and build a K-swapped car - PERIOD.
2) Even though I said the above, BUILD WHAT THE FUCK you want to build. As long as you build it for you who cares - I've been called stupid for building and "all-motor" B18B (when it's not even an ALL-MOTOR setup - it was built as a nitrous car from the jump) but I haven't lost to 1 VTEC car yet since getting my gearing dialed in (yes there are plenty on this board that will smack my ass if I'm off the gas).
3) The K series guys feel that they have to defend their purchase/direction when in reality they don't. I don't know why we get into this shit. You don't have to defend Hondas - you don't have to defend the direction you take - just roll with it.
4) Stop bench-racing on a setup that hasn't even hit the rollers yet. Sometimes saying less is more bc you get to save face later. Even though you may make more power on the rollers if you sit down with Jones then that more power/torque could be your curse as you are spinning and he is winning. There is only so much traction to be had FWD --- I'd much rather just reduce the weight of the car than to keep searching for TQ - but what do I know, I've only been doing this shit for 16 years.
Happy hunting.
No i'm Mr. SarcasticQuote:
which one are you mr. deep pockets or mr. smarty pants lol
LOL! U got a FB page?? Type in Gregg T Stephens and look at my car pics from 2007 there. First in ATL at that time to make 300whp@15psi. Maybe Scotty can post the dyno sheet for me cause i cant find mines.lolQuote:
Originally Posted by h22 jones
My new Go-Power Cams for my setup
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0/S6001172.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0/S6001173.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0/S6001179.jpg
My manifold
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0/S6000847.jpg
WHOOPS................. I meant this one. LOL
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0/P1010236.jpg
SOOOOO MUCH MORE, but y list them. Dont want to bench race here. Just meet me on the pavement when i'm ready
Um, J, i STILL eat Steak,Lobster etc etc all way down to the double stack on wendys dollar menu, and I'M IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FASHION RICH OR "WELL OFF" proly broker than u r. Just know how to budget and have patience. That all:DQuote:
Originally Posted by BABY J
B/C ppl that dont have the patience/money r ALWAYS talking shit about k series! They act like it cost $100,000 damn dollars to build one! K SERIES R SOOOOOOO MUCH CHEAPER TODAY TO BUILD, EVEN BUY STRAIGHT OUT SWAP, THEN THEY WERE 5 YEARS AGO!!Quote:
3) The K series guys feel that they have to defend their purchase/direction when in reality they don't.
Plenty of guys on k20a.org been selling FULL type s swap for $2500-3500 and its getting cheaper! Swap parts r EXTREMLY CHEAPER NOW THEN BACK THEN. Used that is:goodjob:
Dont really bench race J, i'm just bored so dont mind talking a LITTLE shit. But its all in fun. If H22JONES or anyone else is taking offense, then i stop. Dont have time for crybabies.Quote:
4) Stop bench-racing on a setup that hasn't even hit the rollers yet. Sometimes saying less is more bc you get to save face later.
J, I'm not making 400whp all motor and jones isnt making 175whp all motor. So we'll see how it goes. In other words its not like i WILL b spinning and he has so much less hp/tq that he'll hook and go! I wont have that much more hp all motor than he will. Is that good or bad? All depends on what u want. Yes its cheaper to do a H2B build than a k, BUT that doesnt make it better! I wanted to do a K swap b/c of the end result in power. Try to understand J.Quote:
Even though you may make more power on the rollers if you sit down with Jones then that more power/torque could be your curse as you are spinning and he is winning.
LOL! SO HAVE I J, SO HAVE I:goodjob:Quote:
but what do I know, I've only been doing this shit for 16 years.
BTW, J, how the wagovan doing??? My fiance was asking about u the other day. She thinks ur a funny guy.
all i will say it more TQ=MORE SPIN
Oh and Jones is one of the nicest guys ive ever met, his point is basically just that hes got a relatively inexpensive engine that makes 250+whp.
Again like i said before
1) ITS NOT ALL ABOUT NUMBERS, ive beaten and seen people get beat PLENTY of times when they were making "more hp"
2) Dyno Graphs mean nothing, they neglect to show you weight, gearing, etc
3) K Series are more expensive than any other engine to build or swap, PERIOD. The old technology still can compete with the new stuff in terms of HP/$
4) K20A.Org is full of shit and so is Nikos, 99% of Nikos graphs are a rolling advertisement for IPS you will NOT SEE THE NUMBER HERE IN GA that they see on those forums. Ask Chunky and anyone else with a K Series why they dyno 15-20whp less in Atlanta than anywhere else but B Series dont do that. Wonder Why? Its cause the K Series guys are way more caught up in numbers because they have something to prove for their investment IMO
5) TQ doesnt really mean that much from a roll race
6) This is all just bullshit talk really as no one in here (including me) has anything to race, well maybe Baby J and Jones can run lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
LOLOL, this most definately.
NO MIKE! NIKOS IS FULL OF SHIT! NOT THE SITE! And as far as numbers go u know i know, BUT I REALLY REALLY HOPE I CAN PROVE U AND CHUNKY WRONG on the number for K series here in ATL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
^^^ I would hope so too if I had spent that much money . LOL.
Didnt spend that much! thats what i've been trying to say!! STILL UNDER $3K!! Motor was free due to trading my GSR tranny with new gears for it.:goodjob: And really finished. Taking parts to shop soon.:goodjob:Quote:
Originally Posted by Starrfire
FYI, dont get caught up in all the "this guy spent $10k on his k swap and only made 210-220whp!" crap. That was 5 YEARS AGO!!!!!
PATEINCE YOUNG CATERPILLARS, PATEINCE!
I disagree, K20a.org is a bunch of number jockeys. I cant tell you how many guys post "230whp with just a SSR header and Skunk2 Stage1s and KPRO" and people believe it. I cant tell you how many 230-250whp graphs ive seen off there that are such bullshit because they had IPS cams.Quote:
Originally Posted by 112480
Chunkys "R" motor barely made 210 (Type R Pistons, type-R cams)
Chunkys "Built" motor with IPS K2s barely made 230whp (other people online were claiming 250-260 with similar builds
Chunkys Built motor with IPS K2s MK IIIs and my header 240whp (about the same amount of money to build his motor as my old 2.0lLSVTEC which made the same numbers) so i saw absolutely no benefit in going with a K series. It makes sense for chunky because he has a K Powered car already.
That kid Jay made 255whp with a K24, SKUNK2 STAGE 3s, 12.5:1 compression, inline pro motor, $1000 header all kinds of shit. I just dont see where you are going to pick up an extra 20-30whp.
Point is the K guys can argue all they want, but for street cars there are far better options ALL MOTOR for far less money. Those setups have been posted in this thread numerous times. If you are starting from scratch with an EG hatch as your car, K series is overpriced for the HP you get IMO, and more for bragging rights.
Id rather build a 250whp $6000 H2B than a 275whp $10,000 K24, but for other people it doesnt matter.
K20a is a cool site, i know a lot of people on there, but i stopped logging in when Nikos hacked into my PMs and posted my results without my consent after chunky and i did 20 hours of testing to show HIS USERS the difference between Skunk2 and IPS cams something nobody had done at the time. We had nice write ups and information and interviewed the people involved with the test, and rather than wait 2 hours for me to post the results, he broke into my PM account (since he owns the site) and leaked the results (which were not even the right dyno graphs) to Omniman in hopes of putting out false information to save face for IPS. Ever since then ive lost all respect for him, his site is just a advertising forum for IPS. So any graph i see on there, its cool, its nice, but i guarantee the cars making XXX hp wont make that here in GA, which in the end is all that matters.
come on man trading shit thats worth money is still spending money and you have yet to answer any of my questions mr sarcastic do you get your finger nails dirty or are you buying a bunch of shit that somebody else has hoping to make the same power they do by bolting them together im just trying to see if you got what it takes to build a 270 motor car and nas far as i can see since you keep dodging questions is your full of shit. I bet for every motor on here that gets built there is 15 more people that spent there 10 thousand dollar credit card bought a bunch of nice shit took pictures of it bragged about making 270 hp and parted it off 6 months later cause they dont have a clue what there doing and not enough money to finish PAYING SOMEBODY ELSE TO DO IT. Now your gonna say owe i got the money to pay to finish my car but that doesnt answer the question are you building it yourself or do you have a reputable shop doing it . Holding up nice cams means nothing to me man the cams in my car are 6 years old came out of a customers car that decided to go with pro2 i mean if nyou wanna get down to swapping i have 800 dollars in my motor lol ni almost have as much in getting it tunned as building it but we are talking about the average joe that has to purchase everything and k series are exspensive. You cant get on here and say hey man my grandma wrtecked her rsx gave me the motor and i built it you just got to be patient and you can build one for cheap lol come on get real. Is that your car in your sig cause about three pages ago a guy said something about you putting your motor in and taking it back out to build it and you said no you building it firts so if thats not even your car in your sig then thats just funny as shit man and explains everything . Your buddys might think since you have a bunch of high priced shit laying around that your king of the streets but not here and my offer stands 4000 build two motors see what they do i got a few hatch bodies ill let you use one so we can keep the weight the same what you wanna do you get your deals and i get mine?
Damn i didnt know NIKOS WAS THAT SHADY!! LOL! doesnt matter as i have NEVER liked him anyway, but on the $ comment i would rather build a $6000 H2B to rather than a $10k, kswap with only 25hp more. BUT!!!! I didnt spend $10k and i'm just knocking on $3k door!! So this hp/$ thing is crap. Ur urgument on that would have been VERY VERY VALID YEARS AGO! But NOT TODAY! I didnt spent $1600 for IPS CAMS like chunky did! I have ips NOTHING! DAMN NIKOS AND HIS EXPENSIVE ASS IPS CREW!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
Shit if i were IPS THIS AND IPS THAT,THEN I would spent $10k+ LOL!!
I have never got on any car forum and seen vteckidd ,me ,spoolin , as a matter of fack anybody that has a fast car makingn great power get on here and start threwing out high ass numbers looking for attention but noobs. i hope you enjoy your attention you sure paid enough for it going with a k series lol. Dont worry man you can say what you feel i dont get pissed off honestly im just as bored as you are lol.
IPS K2 MARK 3/KME'S/KT1 OR 2'S ETC WITH EIBACH VALVETRAIN=$2000
IPS MANIFOLD=$2000+
Thats $4k+ right there and all u have is cams and a damn manifold!
My cams=$900(had to buy them new)
My direct port rbc manifold=FREE!! with the NOS kit i bought from the guy for $200!!
Thats just $1100 plus ur header and other CHEAP supporting parts!!!
LOL, not a noob and not trying to get attention threw high numbers! this is someone else thread and i was just telling that person what i think he should do based off what he was asking, but as usual these type of thread ALWAYS go off in a different direction. LOL! soon enough it becomes a debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by h22 jones
and once again I AM STILL UNDER $3K!!
And ay H22jones u ever get those pics of the c.f hatch for me yet and figure out how much u want for it on top of my hatch??
Gregg i think you can agree that 95% of the poeple on here cant built your engine swap, setup for $3000 thats just wishful thinking.
K20A2 Head $600-900
K24 NON TSX Block $500
Rods and pistons $800
Springs and ret $500
Cams $900
Header $400-600
Tranny $500-1000 depending on EP3 or TYpe-S
then you have the intake manifold, karcepts kit, wiring harness, engine mounts, head work, kpro, axles, fuel system, clutch, flywheel, TB, gaskets, i mean the list goes on and on. I cant see anyone doing that swap even hunting down deals for under $7000-8000 if you pay a shop to build the motor, do the machine work AND THE SWAP.
I think you swapped a lot of parts you previously bought or parted out your D series, so you still have to account for the INITIAL cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
Traded ur header for b series plus $200Quote:
K20A2 Head $600-900
FREE!! TRADED MY GSR TRANNY FOR IT!!Quote:
K24 NON TSX Block $500
Pistons$550,Rods$175(Used but for only for 500 miles)Quote:
Rods and pistons $800
$250 ON A GREAT DEAL! A STEAL ACTUALLY!Quote:
Springs and ret $500
Cams $900
UR HEADER!!! $300 RIGHT? OR WAS IT $350?Quote:
Header $400-600
FREE! cause had a lot of ls/vtec parts at the time for sale and just got the type-s tranny and then went and traded it for a Ep3 tranny later when i figured out how much more hp i was adding. Didnt want to spin the whole time in each gear.LOL!!Quote:
Tranny $500-1000 depending on EP3 or TYpe-S
then you have the intake manifoldFREE wit nos kit purchase,
karcepts kitUSED$50!,
wiring harnessUSED$75!,
engine mountsNEW!$200! A FREAKING STEAL!,
head workT.D headwork that he o'd me from d series parts,
kpro[havent got yet BUT it goes for $1k but i'm trying to get one from this guy for $300 right now[/b],
axles$100,
fuel system$125,
clutchchad gave me a GREAT deal one one but cant remember how much i paid for it,
flywheel$100,
TBtraded parts for Sk2 70mm t.b,
gasketsonce again sold other stuff so no money out of pocket!,
i mean the list goes on and on. AND I CAN TOO MIKE!
I cant see anyone doing that swap even hunting down deals for under $7000-8000 if you pay a shop to build the motor, do the machine work AND THE SWAP.:ninja::ninja::ninja:
I think you swapped a lot of parts you previously bought or parted out your D series, so you still have to account for the INITIAL cost.LOL! nice try mike! LISTEN TO ME! U CANNOT COUNT THE INITIAL COST IN THIS SITUATION CAUSE I DIDNT PAY THE "INTIAL" PRICES!
If u price EVERYTHING BRAND NEW THEN YEAH ITS EXPWNSIVE!
Like i said, PATIENCE YOUNG CATERPILLAR!, PATIENCE!
Oh and for other ppl, i'm not lying about what i bought MY parts for cause i could give a shit what ppl think about me spending a certain amount on my build, i just dont want a noob to read this thread and all the B AND H Series guys scare them away from k series b/c of so called HIGH PRICES!!
I'm not gonna argue but I know what you spent l your d series, your b series parts didn't just magcally appear in your garage nor did the d series parts there is a cost associated regardless.