For the stance kiddies/hardparkers...
And other style queens that think bolt in cages are cool JUST so you can say you have a cage...
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2727654
See the main hoop that punctured through the chassis?
This is why proper cage installation and form is critical.
And if it's a repost/old news, I don't give a fuck.
-91 240SX -- CA18 Power...SOLD, now terrorizing the streets of Alabama
I bet Austin can make a good bolt in cage. I mean, he can cut two cars in half and weld them back together....
pretty cage is pretty weak...
Ugly Cage is ANGRY WHEN TAUNTED!
The whole fucking thing flattened.
daaamn...that sucks....anybody know what brand bolt-in cage this is so i know to never buy one lol
It was an Autopower cage. Fact remains, having the tube WELDED to a 6"x6" floor plate is a lot safer than a handful of bolts going through the chassis and a little plate.Originally Posted by CH@Dbee
Shit, I forgot that people NEVER get into accidents on the highway, or go over 65 mph. Damn I'm stupid.weird thing is that stanced cars and hardparkers usually don't find themselves driving the cars on a track at high speeds...
-jonathan
-91 240SX -- CA18 Power...SOLD, now terrorizing the streets of Alabama
Yeah, looking at this more, this is definately an issue with the floor of the car, not necessarily the cage. It's punched out.
I have raced, instructed, and done track days for 15+ years and seen dozens of cars roll, most with Autopowers (or whatever passes SCCA tech). I have never seen this happen, not even with shitty NHRA bars on drag cars.
A man much wiser than myself once told me: You're only as safe as the amount of money you're willing to spend on safety when racing. Hence why I'd rather spend the extra money to get one welded in than a few hundred bucks to install a bolt-in cage. But that's just me, and I know some people are out there racing on a budget. That's cool and all, but people really need to think about what deserves the budget buy when modding their car. That goes for EVERYONE, style queens and racers alike.
-91 240SX -- CA18 Power...SOLD, now terrorizing the streets of Alabama
this needs to be directed at the wanna be racers, with shitty cages...lol id like to see this bitch flip...lol
this needs to be directed at the wanna be racers, with shitty cages...lol id like to see this bitch flip...lol
riding low is like a religion
weird thing is that stanced cars and hardparkers usually don't find themselves driving the cars on a track at high speeds...
-jonathan
[/URL]
Jesus Christ is my Savior
I can post some pics of my Golf with an Autopower that went over 3 times at speed and I drove the car home......
I think this is the exception, not the norm.
Damn, how was the driver? Thats crazy
Got a MINI?Don't talk to me.
FUCK your FADS
He lived, thankfully. I don't know if he suffered any injuries.
-91 240SX -- CA18 Power...SOLD, now terrorizing the streets of Alabama
Bolt in cages are not all that unsafe, it's how they're mounted. REAL bolt in cages usually straddle the frame rails. My ITC Civic had a bolt in cage and there's no way it would of came through the floor.
These show and Cusco bullshit cages are unsafe for other reasons not just the fact they bolt to a floorboard. The bend at the dash is unsafe, the way it's all bolted together is a joke. A real bolt in cage/bar is made with a sleeve and two bolts through the sleeve, you see these Cusco styled bars/cages having a hinge type of deal.
I also don't know what mounting plate thickness they use but...
Weld in is of course cheaper and not hard to do. I've known people who bolt in a cage then weld it.
As for Tnomud, I doubt every car you saw rolled with an Autopower cage lol, not many people run them anymore anyway, isn't SCCA banning or did ban bolt in cages? It'll come soon.
I've thought this way before, that a race car should be stupid safe and a intense cage and all, but honestly I drive balls out on the track and fully expect to crash, I don't want to ruin a expensive cage. I'd rather risk death then have to spend 2k on a custom cage again. lol Just kidding...or am I? I dunno.
remember, I am old and have been tracking for 20 years now. But, not the "whatever passes SCCA tech" part. Shit, NHRA cage standards are as loose as a $100 stipper at a bachelor party and those guys crash shit every weekend. NHRA cages won't pass SCCA Tech with $100 bills padding the doorbars. I am just saying, I instructed for Police and GOtv. driving for years. We crashed hundreds of Caprices and Crowns, most had bolt ins, 100% of them were injury-free exits.
I race motorcycles, anything with doors seems safe to me...........you pussy's
Ok well I've been tracking for 15 years.remember, I am old and have been tracking for 20 years now. But, not the "whatever passes SCCA tech" part. Shit, NHRA cage standards are as loose as a $100 stipper at a bachelor party and those guys crash shit every weekend. NHRA cages won't pass SCCA Tech with $100 bills padding the doorbars. I am just saying, I instructed for Police and GOtv. driving for years. We crashed hundreds of Caprices and Crowns, most had bolt ins, 100% of them were injury-free exits.
I race motorcycles, anything with doors seems safe to me...........you pussy's
Doing police work also isn't road racing. lol. Unless you all were hitting walls at 150mph and then barrel rolling that really isn't very useful information here. Like I said though, a properly bolted in roll cage/bar can be safe, if it's mounted just to the floor board though, it's GOING to fail.
Most motorcycle racers say cars are much scarier to race then a bike.
I mean we could sit here and debate FIA versus SCCA cages too and how to mount a harness belt.
I wasn't trying to say you GOTTA have a jungle gym inside your car for road racing, I was mainly talking about the basics of cage construction...material composition, installation process, and cage design (ensuring proper bends, harness bar location, main hoop/halo location in regards to the driver location).
In other words, not paying some dude to do it just because he has a welder and he wants to try building a cage and says he'll save you a buncha money.
-91 240SX -- CA18 Power...SOLD, now terrorizing the streets of Alabama
I know, I was mainly talking to the other guy.
Im just pointing out.......over the many moons of my racing/instructing career, I have yet to see a total failure of ANY bolt in cage like that. I put my ITS GTI on the roof a few times (over and over) and didnt even crask the paint in the pan, and drove it home.
I think this Mustang Scenario is the exception, not the rule.
NOTE: the tactical driving classes I taught were gutted vics and caprices, bolt in cages, high speed pit and tactical driving manuvers. Well into the triple digits.
That's exactly what it is. Those plates appear to be like 4" x 4" lol! I want to see close ups of it and how it punched through. There is nothing wrong with properly mounted bolt in cages and in this case I don't think a weld-in mounted in the same spot would have mattered...still would have punched through.
Even gutted they aren't light either...so they tumble HARD lol!
Oh I know, I watched a guy toss a Vic on the roof hard and get tagged by another Vic. The Vic on the roof didin't budge much.
I am not dogging weld in cages, I have had plenty of them over the years. I have also had plenty of bolt in's too, and had personal luck with those.....not by choice.
For a 50/50 car, I prefer bolt-in's. It's a royal PITA to pound out a panel, or do any work inside the car if you have a weld-in. That's just my .02.
I am pretty realistic. WHen you numbers up, your numbers up. I race bikes at high speeds, I'd be a fool to complain about anything not being safe.
Racing bikes at high speeds is safer then cars, even pro superbike racers agree with that.Oh I know, I watched a guy toss a Vic on the roof hard and get tagged by another Vic. The Vic on the roof didin't budge much.
I am not dogging weld in cages, I have had plenty of them over the years. I have also had plenty of bolt in's too, and had personal luck with those.....not by choice.
For a 50/50 car, I prefer bolt-in's. It's a royal PITA to pound out a panel, or do any work inside the car if you have a weld-in. That's just my .02.
I am pretty realistic. WHen you numbers up, your numbers up. I race bikes at high speeds, I'd be a fool to complain about anything not being safe.
I have been to a few funerals that would contradict that. I have a couple $400K+ hospital stays to back that up too?Racing bikes at high speeds is safer then cars, even pro superbike racers agree with that.
TO be honest, I got injured WAY more racing motocross and supermoto, than literbikes. But, when you wreck sportbikes, it minor or huge.....usually no in-between.
Put the crack pipe down. There is NOBODY in this world that can back up that claim with facts lol! A bike is never safer than a legal race car...at any speed.Racing bikes at high speeds is safer then cars, even pro superbike racers agree with that.
VR6 GTI?
I didn't say all bolt in cages fail, as I said it depends mainly how it's mounted, but weld in is ALWAYS safer then bolt in.
bikes are still more fun though
Holy shit. That's amazing he survived.
Any fear goes away as soon as you sit on a bike...or it does for me anyways. I can watch video after video of crashes, look at photos of the aftermath, repeated hospital visits and funerals of friends, yet all that goes away once you get on it and take a few turns.
I would say I have limited experience on a bike yet I was comfortable enough to slide my 955i when wet and rode smooth enough to put any passenger to sleep in the mountains. Even scrapped the triple collector which is typically only done with slicks on a track. I could ride hard but still respected what could happen any second. I can only imagine what being head to head on a race track is like! Obviously safer than the street but still triple digits with nothing between you and objects exactly forgiving but of composite material and a helmet.
Hitting a air fence on a track will always be better then hitting a tree. lol
I know what you mean about bikes though, it took me a week to be knee sliding the first time I ever got on two wheels.
120MPH on a road course on a 185 lbs 2 stroke bike
Cool?120MPH on a road course on a 185 lbs 2 stroke bike
This entire arguement is pretty dumb.
1. The car passed Tech at a Road Race venue. Hallett Raceway in OK to be exact if the other thread is to be believed. So it PASSED a Tech, most likely an SCCA tech. So whatever he did, he did it right. Either that, or the Tech Inspectors up there are fucking stupid.
2. Weld in or Bolt in, the car upended and landed flat on the roof. It was a flat hit. Not a side glance or a roll but a flat fall straight on the roof. That will test the best of bought cages. When I safetied for a Stunt man friend of mine, he welded one up for a Pipe Ramp roll for in a Limousine, it was welded the entire length of the Limo insides. He hit the ramp too close into center and lazy flipped it. The only thing that kept his from pushing through was that he landed on a bed of cars. It he would have landed flat onthe pavement, same thing would have happened.
3. As for bikes being safer than cars. That's a toss up. Anytime you go skidding across the ground on some Cow Skin, then do a tumbleweed in the grass, you are going to get hurt. I know AMA racers who are good, and they are injured about 30% of the time. Missing work and other things. I don't see that of my Amatuer Auto racing friends. Not by a long shot.
So...none of you know what kind of cage it was, what size the feet were, if they were welded or bolted in....so whats the arguement and how in the hell does this have a thing to do with Stance people? That's about the dumbest statement i've heard in this entire thread. OP, if you would have shown a thread of a Hella Flush guy with a bolt in Cusco cage who flipped it in the mountains of North Georgia...I would agree with you. But you chose a track teched race car that landed on a flat hit. Plus....you are 25 years old, you aren't much past Kiddie status yourself.
So go try and pick on another style of vehicle....or at least post a photo and thread of the style you are trying to make fun of. This entire thread reeks of stupid.
Garage-Sixgun
If you're gonna do it, overdo it.
Dirty Octopus Photography. Magic with a shutter!
I think two people were in the car, I've never been to a track day where the tech inspection includes looking at the cage or bar, a simple glance is fine, but they've never actually looked at it.
Hell NASA let me on track at Road Atlanta in a Civic with a half finished cage and it didn't even have rear braces.
Lol. My tech inspections at SOLO II in the Bucaneer region checked the cage welds in my Honda. I went to them in Atlanta too when they used to be at Lakewood....checked them there too. I can't think of a time when they weren't checked. Oh well. Maybe they checked em cause it was an ITB car. I dunno but they for sure went in through the pasenger side, looked at each one and checked my upper seat securing and my belt bar. They were Nazis.I think two people were in the car, I've never been to a track day where the tech inspection includes looking at the cage or bar, a simple glance is fine, but they've never actually looked at it.
Hell NASA let me on track at Road Atlanta in a Civic with a half finished cage and it didn't even have rear braces.
Garage-Sixgun
If you're gonna do it, overdo it.
Dirty Octopus Photography. Magic with a shutter!
For Solo 2? Why? The chance of hitting anything is rare as hell lol. They NEVER checked my ITC cage there or the bar in my Miata.
www.stancefails.weebly.com
It was an Autopower cage.
As far as the argument thing goes, I enjoy harassing stance kids/hardparkers. Call it my sinful indulgence, and of course I wasn't expecting this thread to be taken 100% seriously. If that were my goal, I would've simply put up pics of the car, and left out the parts about raggin on hardparkers.
Reason I DID choose to include it was b/c I saw these pics, and was reminded of this thread.
Let's be real. Stance/hardparker/show guys all do their thing for one reason. Attention. You know it, I know it, and a few others do too, but most of the guys participating in it won't admit it, rather they try to say "I'm just down with the scene, man." Ghetto crap work done in the name of trendsetting is a terrible thing, but yet you see it all over the place!
People are gonna disagree with what I just said, probably call me a motherfucker and talk shit whenever they see my ragged ass 240, but the fact is that I chose to modify my car because I enjoy driving it. I don't care if anyone else thinks it's ugly, slow, gay, whatever. Shit don't bother me, but I've noticed that it ain't like that with the aforementioned group of hipster kids of the car community. Fuck going with the flow. Trends are for kids that only care about how others perceive them. It ain't my cup of tea, so I'll continue to rag on people who gotta play up to others just to feel accepted.
-91 240SX -- CA18 Power...SOLD, now terrorizing the streets of Alabama
That was a very well put post. I will agree with about 90% of it.
The 10% I don't agree with is that EVERYONE, no matter who you are, fixes their car up for themselves...as well as others. No matter how much you say you don't care....you do. Anyone that says differently is lying through their teeth. Yes you drive a 240 because you say you like driving it and you say that you don't care what the guy looking at it thinks but I will be the first one to bet that when someone says, "Holy crap man, I love the way that looks", you will dammm sure not tell them you don't give a shit what they think.
It's great when people who claim they don't care, are the first ones to talk about what they did to their car and how they did it when someone compliments it. Funny how that works.
Hardparkers, Stancers.....whatever you want to call it, you are no different from them. They all say the same thing you are.
"I don't build my car for anyone, I build it for me....fuck what everyone thinks".....until everyone is complimenting on it, then they are all goo goo gaa gaa.
Garage-Sixgun
If you're gonna do it, overdo it.
Dirty Octopus Photography. Magic with a shutter!
Lol at this thread.
I'll stick with my bolt-in autopower rollbar over a cusco deathtrap "cage" anyday.
The op car looks like a dedicated track car - any idea why he didn't go with at least a 6 point weld in cage?
It's an Autopower bolt in. Not sure why it's not a weld in but either way if he welded it wherever it was bolted I'd expect the same result. A bolt in cage or weld in is only as safe as it's mounted. In this case it looks like straight to the floorboard.
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