For the stance kiddies/hardparkers...
And other style queens that think bolt in cages are cool JUST so you can say you have a cage...
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2727654
See the main hoop that punctured through the chassis?
This is why proper cage installation and form is critical.
And if it's a repost/old news, I don't give a fuck.
-91 240SX -- CA18 Power...SOLD, now terrorizing the streets of Alabama
I bet Austin can make a good bolt in cage. I mean, he can cut two cars in half and weld them back together....
pretty cage is pretty weak...
Ugly Cage is ANGRY WHEN TAUNTED!
The whole fucking thing flattened.
daaamn...that sucks....anybody know what brand bolt-in cage this is so i know to never buy one lol
this needs to be directed at the wanna be racers, with shitty cages...lol id like to see this bitch flip...lol
weird thing is that stanced cars and hardparkers usually don't find themselves driving the cars on a track at high speeds...
-jonathan
[/URL]
Jesus Christ is my Savior
I can post some pics of my Golf with an Autopower that went over 3 times at speed and I drove the car home......
I think this is the exception, not the norm.
It was an Autopower cage. Fact remains, having the tube WELDED to a 6"x6" floor plate is a lot safer than a handful of bolts going through the chassis and a little plate.Originally Posted by CH@Dbee
Shit, I forgot that people NEVER get into accidents on the highway, or go over 65 mph. Damn I'm stupid.weird thing is that stanced cars and hardparkers usually don't find themselves driving the cars on a track at high speeds...
-jonathan
-91 240SX -- CA18 Power...SOLD, now terrorizing the streets of Alabama
Damn, how was the driver? Thats crazy
Got a MINI?Don't talk to me.
FUCK your FADS
He lived, thankfully. I don't know if he suffered any injuries.
-91 240SX -- CA18 Power...SOLD, now terrorizing the streets of Alabama
Yeah, looking at this more, this is definately an issue with the floor of the car, not necessarily the cage. It's punched out.
I have raced, instructed, and done track days for 15+ years and seen dozens of cars roll, most with Autopowers (or whatever passes SCCA tech). I have never seen this happen, not even with shitty NHRA bars on drag cars.
A man much wiser than myself once told me: You're only as safe as the amount of money you're willing to spend on safety when racing. Hence why I'd rather spend the extra money to get one welded in than a few hundred bucks to install a bolt-in cage. But that's just me, and I know some people are out there racing on a budget. That's cool and all, but people really need to think about what deserves the budget buy when modding their car. That goes for EVERYONE, style queens and racers alike.
-91 240SX -- CA18 Power...SOLD, now terrorizing the streets of Alabama
Bolt in cages are not all that unsafe, it's how they're mounted. REAL bolt in cages usually straddle the frame rails. My ITC Civic had a bolt in cage and there's no way it would of came through the floor.
These show and Cusco bullshit cages are unsafe for other reasons not just the fact they bolt to a floorboard. The bend at the dash is unsafe, the way it's all bolted together is a joke. A real bolt in cage/bar is made with a sleeve and two bolts through the sleeve, you see these Cusco styled bars/cages having a hinge type of deal.
I also don't know what mounting plate thickness they use but...
Weld in is of course cheaper and not hard to do. I've known people who bolt in a cage then weld it.
As for Tnomud, I doubt every car you saw rolled with an Autopower cage lol, not many people run them anymore anyway, isn't SCCA banning or did ban bolt in cages? It'll come soon.
I've thought this way before, that a race car should be stupid safe and a intense cage and all, but honestly I drive balls out on the track and fully expect to crash, I don't want to ruin a expensive cage. I'd rather risk death then have to spend 2k on a custom cage again. lol Just kidding...or am I? I dunno.
remember, I am old and have been tracking for 20 years now. But, not the "whatever passes SCCA tech" part. Shit, NHRA cage standards are as loose as a $100 stipper at a bachelor party and those guys crash shit every weekend. NHRA cages won't pass SCCA Tech with $100 bills padding the doorbars. I am just saying, I instructed for Police and GOtv. driving for years. We crashed hundreds of Caprices and Crowns, most had bolt ins, 100% of them were injury-free exits.
I race motorcycles, anything with doors seems safe to me...........you pussy's
this needs to be directed at the wanna be racers, with shitty cages...lol id like to see this bitch flip...lol
riding low is like a religion
Ok well I've been tracking for 15 years.remember, I am old and have been tracking for 20 years now. But, not the "whatever passes SCCA tech" part. Shit, NHRA cage standards are as loose as a $100 stipper at a bachelor party and those guys crash shit every weekend. NHRA cages won't pass SCCA Tech with $100 bills padding the doorbars. I am just saying, I instructed for Police and GOtv. driving for years. We crashed hundreds of Caprices and Crowns, most had bolt ins, 100% of them were injury-free exits.
I race motorcycles, anything with doors seems safe to me...........you pussy's
Doing police work also isn't road racing. lol. Unless you all were hitting walls at 150mph and then barrel rolling that really isn't very useful information here. Like I said though, a properly bolted in roll cage/bar can be safe, if it's mounted just to the floor board though, it's GOING to fail.
Most motorcycle racers say cars are much scarier to race then a bike.
I mean we could sit here and debate FIA versus SCCA cages too and how to mount a harness belt.
I wasn't trying to say you GOTTA have a jungle gym inside your car for road racing, I was mainly talking about the basics of cage construction...material composition, installation process, and cage design (ensuring proper bends, harness bar location, main hoop/halo location in regards to the driver location).
In other words, not paying some dude to do it just because he has a welder and he wants to try building a cage and says he'll save you a buncha money.
-91 240SX -- CA18 Power...SOLD, now terrorizing the streets of Alabama
I know, I was mainly talking to the other guy.
Im just pointing out.......over the many moons of my racing/instructing career, I have yet to see a total failure of ANY bolt in cage like that. I put my ITS GTI on the roof a few times (over and over) and didnt even crask the paint in the pan, and drove it home.
I think this Mustang Scenario is the exception, not the rule.
NOTE: the tactical driving classes I taught were gutted vics and caprices, bolt in cages, high speed pit and tactical driving manuvers. Well into the triple digits.
VR6 GTI?
I didn't say all bolt in cages fail, as I said it depends mainly how it's mounted, but weld in is ALWAYS safer then bolt in.
That's exactly what it is. Those plates appear to be like 4" x 4" lol! I want to see close ups of it and how it punched through. There is nothing wrong with properly mounted bolt in cages and in this case I don't think a weld-in mounted in the same spot would have mattered...still would have punched through.
Even gutted they aren't light either...so they tumble HARD lol!
Oh I know, I watched a guy toss a Vic on the roof hard and get tagged by another Vic. The Vic on the roof didin't budge much.
I am not dogging weld in cages, I have had plenty of them over the years. I have also had plenty of bolt in's too, and had personal luck with those.....not by choice.
For a 50/50 car, I prefer bolt-in's. It's a royal PITA to pound out a panel, or do any work inside the car if you have a weld-in. That's just my .02.
I am pretty realistic. WHen you numbers up, your numbers up. I race bikes at high speeds, I'd be a fool to complain about anything not being safe.
Racing bikes at high speeds is safer then cars, even pro superbike racers agree with that.Oh I know, I watched a guy toss a Vic on the roof hard and get tagged by another Vic. The Vic on the roof didin't budge much.
I am not dogging weld in cages, I have had plenty of them over the years. I have also had plenty of bolt in's too, and had personal luck with those.....not by choice.
For a 50/50 car, I prefer bolt-in's. It's a royal PITA to pound out a panel, or do any work inside the car if you have a weld-in. That's just my .02.
I am pretty realistic. WHen you numbers up, your numbers up. I race bikes at high speeds, I'd be a fool to complain about anything not being safe.
I have been to a few funerals that would contradict that. I have a couple $400K+ hospital stays to back that up too?Racing bikes at high speeds is safer then cars, even pro superbike racers agree with that.
TO be honest, I got injured WAY more racing motocross and supermoto, than literbikes. But, when you wreck sportbikes, it minor or huge.....usually no in-between.
Put the crack pipe down. There is NOBODY in this world that can back up that claim with facts lol! A bike is never safer than a legal race car...at any speed.Racing bikes at high speeds is safer then cars, even pro superbike racers agree with that.
All the AMA riders I talk to and other riders such as WERA and such swear they will never get in a race car. I use to think the AMA guys were crazy but they're really not.
Talk to the AMA/WERA riders that used to race cars, or the ones that switched from bikes to cars...they will tell you.
Just as an example, the last time I can think of someone that died in a car at Road Atlanta was Bob Akin at the 2002 Mitty in a 1988 Nissan GTP ZX-Turbo. Since then there's been several cart and motorcycle deaths, including one decapitation.
To put it into perspective, 227 motorcycle riders have died at the Isle of Man since 1907 yet only 48 have died on the Nürburgring and the most deadly track is Indianapolis with 56. Hell, add up all the automobile deaths of the top 5 most deadly tracks: Indianapolis, Nurburgring, Monza, Daytona, & Le Mans equals 182 which is still 20% less than just the Isle of Man alone...
Well when you go into detail on TRACKS that's different, Isle of Man is a death trap anyway.
Obviously the risk factor to DIE on a bike is higher then a car.
They also don't release all deaths to the public, the Nurburgring has many street car deaths per year. Karts aren't bikes they're cars without a seat belt. lol
I'm just saying most I've talked to have always said they feel much safer on a bike then in a car strapped in a metal cage and Tnmound or whatever keeps throwing out he tracks a bike like we should be impressed or think he has big balls or something. lol
You ever ridden a bike on a track? Since the last time I checked, there has never been a neck or back injury with anyone wearing a Hans device, not once, since the early 90's (Yet NASCAR drivers refused to wear them for like 8 years until the light bulb came on but that's a totally different story). You're just about guaranteed one on a bike every time you go down. If you're lucky you just slide and don't high side it throwing you around like a rag doll...hopefully not hitting anything solid or getting hit by another bike in the mean time. In a car it is highly unlikely you'll be injured as long as you have your safety devices properly fitted, even when you get hit by another car.
You'll have a tough time finding a rider that hasn't had serious medical bills but most professional car drivers have not had anything other than checkups after incidences. Motorcycle riders are crazy, you have to be, but it comes natural for most of them because they've been riding since they could walk. If I was given the chance I would race bikes though lol!
MY INJURIES RACING CARS:
-bumped head w/o helmet getting into car
MY INJURIES RACING SPORTBIKES/MOTOCROSS/SUPERMOTO:
-11 dislocated shoulders
- broken pelvis
-9 or 10 broken ribs
-3 broken ankles
-3 broken wrists
-1 broken vertabrea
-1 broken collar bone
-1 broken knee
-1 collapsed lung
-1 punctured lung
-1 broken nose
-1 broken hip
- countless broken fingers
- 100 plus stitches
- 50 plus staples
- 1 fractured skull
bikes are still more fun though
Holy shit. That's amazing he survived.
Well either you're doing it ALL wrong or something is just really messed up. lol.
I've never been able to scare myself on a bike. Only things I've done that was really scary was when I tested a superkart.
Motocross is the devil. I run 12 hour enduro races, you tend to get a little sloppy after a few hours. This is over 15 years of riding/racing, 3 variants of motorcycles. My record holder involved a drunk in a truck, was not on the track.
Its just a law of averages. It's not a matter if "if", but "when" and "how severe".
In the past 12 months, I personally had 2 friends go (1 motocross, 1 supermoto) in competition. One on the street, not counting my street excursion that put me in a trauma center for 3 weeks on life support.
Enduros are bad ass.Motocross is the devil. I run 12 hour enduro races, you tend to get a little sloppy after a few hours. This is over 15 years of riding/racing, 3 variants of motorcycles. My record holder involved a drunk in a truck, was not on the track.
Its just a law of averages. It's not a matter if "if", but "when" and "how severe".
In the past 12 months, I personally had 2 friends go (1 motocross, 1 supermoto) in competition. One on the street, not counting my street excursion that put me in a trauma center for 3 weeks on life support.
Sorry about your friends.
Any fear goes away as soon as you sit on a bike...or it does for me anyways. I can watch video after video of crashes, look at photos of the aftermath, repeated hospital visits and funerals of friends, yet all that goes away once you get on it and take a few turns.
I would say I have limited experience on a bike yet I was comfortable enough to slide my 955i when wet and rode smooth enough to put any passenger to sleep in the mountains. Even scrapped the triple collector which is typically only done with slicks on a track. I could ride hard but still respected what could happen any second. I can only imagine what being head to head on a race track is like! Obviously safer than the street but still triple digits with nothing between you and objects exactly forgiving but of composite material and a helmet.
Hitting a air fence on a track will always be better then hitting a tree. lol
I know what you mean about bikes though, it took me a week to be knee sliding the first time I ever got on two wheels.
120MPH on a road course on a 185 lbs 2 stroke bike
Cool?120MPH on a road course on a 185 lbs 2 stroke bike
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