Originally Posted by thegovanator
3 rotor beats KA
rb26 > everything.
3 rotor beats KA
rb26 > everything.
Yea everyone misses Icemark, but nut swinging??? how is IA any better?
Try not. Do or Do not.
My old car. Stock body + OEM wing. With the right wheels would look good.
RX-7 with a KA-T.
i say go with the 240
RX7>240 IMO
^^x2
Not to bash on 240s here, but they're everywhere, 7s aren't as common. 7s have superior chassis stock for stock, 7s have better brakes, 7s rev higher, 7s have the same straight line performance stock for stock. You're comparing a grand touring sports car to an entry level sports coupe. The choice should be obvious.
^^ Yeah, I drew a frame of a man running on each fan blade. That is him running at idle
superior chassis stock for stock? have you flipped your lid? 240sx sits on a platform shared with the Silvia and Skyline. Hicas > you. S13 Skyline won 29 of 29 races its first year and followed that up by winning 50 of 50 and carrying the championship each year. The chassis the 240sx sits on is far superior to an rx7.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that a U.S. spec 240, even a hicas comes factory with all wheel steering, 4 piston brakes up front, 2 in the rear(wrapped around 10.7 inch discs and 10.3 front/rear respectively), with a clutch-type LSD (Viscus type is crap), 50/50 weight distribution and low center of gravity that only a rotary can provide. Also, the S chassis is not the same a skyline chassis. They can share similar architecture but similar =/= same. The 240 is NOT a spectacular car, I have driven my room mate's wonderful example of a 240, and I have driven countless 2nd generation Rx-7s. You can't deny the laws of physics, the 2nd generation Rx-7 has a far superior chassis than the S chassis especially the worst of the S-chassis cars, the one with the truck-sourced KA24DE.
^^ Yeah, I drew a frame of a man running on each fan blade. That is him running at idle
i never saw nissan win le mans either.
787b is not a rx7.
in base trim rx7>240. In race trim 240>rx7. Make fair comparisons... a na 2nd gen is not a spectacular car either. Rx7 is trimmed better stock... easy observation to make. Compare chassis potential vs the nearest trim of s13. Compare a TurboII to a Silvia Ks
but if were talking US stock models,the RX-7 wins.
and no the 787B is not a 7,but its a rotary engine....just stating that a nissan powered car hasnt done that.
I was talking stock for stock, and no, I will not compare a TII you can pick up here for $3000-$4000 to a car never sold in America. You act like, that for the purposes of this thread, the owner is choosing between a Hicas 240 and an N/A FC, or a TII and a Silvia Ks. That's just not the comparison. If the OP has Hicas money, he's also looking at a tII, if he doesn't he's compairng most likely a 240 SE hatch to a GXL or GTU Rx7. Youre telling me to make fair comparisons. I also don't have a clue what you're talking about in terms of bolt ons. Both can get coil overs, both can upgrade the brakes (although most find they never need to as the TII has the same brakes as the FD). They both can make insane power, although I'll admit that with power you'll hit a 200 HP ceiling in an N/A FC really fast and the 240s have LOADS of powertrain options. For all intents and purposes though we'll start with stock vs. stock, then we must ask what the purpose of the car will be. 7s were built to do nothing BUT handle, so I really think that anything short of long course road racing, or drags strips, you won't find any major advantages to the S chassis. I mean, sure, you can put 300ZX brakes on a 240, but then you'll just be where the Fc started..... the rest of the aftermarket supplies a plethora of quality parts for both chassis. I know you know way more than I about 240s, but having lived with a guy for 4 months who owned a 240 and getting really personal with it, as well as having owned an Rx-7 myself, I think I know more about the 2 chassis together.
^^ Yeah, I drew a frame of a man running on each fan blade. That is him running at idle
I might be a little bias since the op is looking at my 7 right now that I have up for sale. I have driven stock 240's and a 240 with coilovers and a sr20 swap. The 240 may not always be a cheaper solution a sr swap costs just about the same as a turbo rotary swap and a turbo rotary will make more power than a sr20 will make because at some point that sr is going to need rods and pistons.
the biggest difference as stated was that the rx7 is a much more luxurious car over all. Its a much smooth and solid drive over a 240.
Granted parts are easier to find for a 240 and you don't have to go re learning a whole new engine setup.
And to plug my own car, my main focus while I have had the car is making sure mechanically the car is in awesome shape...I keep getting asked why I am selling since the car is running awesome.
Ohhh and one big downside to the rx7...a 240sx will never be as loud as a na rotary lol.
if the OP is shopping. I've got this for sale.
one of the very few unmolested 240s. Purchased from the garage of a retired old lady. crack free and undamaged interior. Ac works, trim panels, seals and glass are all excellent. car is straight as an arrow. 5 speed, cd player,ac, instrument panel works perfect. Rare find in the 240 world. An untouched canvas ready to be created.
Silvia left out in the rain while the 240sx sleeps in comfort.
s2000 out in the rain while the 240sx sleeps in comfort.
I just bought my second FC. Great car and ungodly potential.
One thing to consider with a rotary is that it takes twice as much Fuel and Air to make the same power as a piston engine. That is why you have so many people running around in the rotary world with 1600cc secondary injectors. Its why I am about to order 1000cc secondary and I will be making in the 375-400 HP range on high boost, where a piston engine would not need nearly the same amount of fuel. On another not you will never have to worry about pistons hitting valves or timing chain/belt issues with a rotary. Before anyone starts pissing and moaning about Apex Seals you can buy a rebuild kit for the engine for under $1300 do that with a piston engine.
Try not. Do or Do not.
A FULL OEM rebuild kit for a KA is under $600.
This thread went down after i left. Most of the post around have seemed more bias from the people who own it. Also some dude stating "i wouldn't get a 240 because its common is no way to judge the car", that a very bad point and shows more a biased side. Also to the "stock for stock RX7 beats 240" okay whats your point the cars are over 10 years old that was back when they where "NEW" and before chassis flex took effect.
That was another bad statement. Okay so back in the early 90's lets say the Rx-7 was better. Well who has a better suspension aftermarket community?i would guess the more COMMON one, because company s are hear to make money, in order to do that they need to meet demands.
I actually though this was going to be a decent thread, but i noticed some fan-bitch shit in here.
Another thing is, a buddy of mines had a FC, and it was ragged on (motor was to shit) and don't get me started on how much body roll that thing, had, but dont get me wrong my "stock" coupe has plenty of it too. I wonder why, OH because they are old fucking cars.
Now, because most bias shit i heard lets list some cons of the Rx-7 : They are TQ-less, highmaint,OLD (just like the 240), the rebuild kit is $1300, You need to know something about it before you get it.
Just using facts the KA IS a more reliable motor then the 13b/NA or turbo. Face it, it has more tq, rebuild kit is less then $600. I could keep going on but i would sound bias. Hell in my opinion i think the KA is a very underrated motor. hell, its practically a truck motor.(nissan hardbody)
Did i also tell you how shity 13b MPG are?
I'm not trying to bash anyone hear, especially the seller, but some of this shit posted was just retarded.
I hope you (OP which this rant was directed to) get the car right for you, not because its "UNCOMMON" or it had a better chassis over 10 years ago, but because you want that car.
Honestly if i could i would have a RX7. (wouldnt trade it for my 240 though)
Now if you want facts i would suggest you go look online about Cons and pros of both cars.
Some Cons about the 240 are, immature kids get it and think its the best thing out on the road, and the tear it up. The seat belt (s13) = fail sauce, UNDERPOWERED, window seal are done improperly and over time will leak, and the list goes on.
Actually i hope you get the Rx-7 if you can handle it, you just need to know some facts about them before putting your self in a bad position. (financially)
EIDT: its not like your buying a BRAND fucking new rx-7 vs 240, so get that stock for stock bullshit out.
/rant.
Anyhow i hope you get a great car/deal and enjoy every moment just like i do with my 240.
also i don't give a shit because "sooo many people have it" to me that sounds like a failed attempt to be different.
Sorry for typos or skipped words, i think faster then i type and don't have time to proof read this. So fill in the blanks if any.
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.
If you're buying stuff actually worth putting on a car, well built, quality stuff, both cars will take benefit of parts with about the same quality, performance, and price. Now, since one is more common, there will be a lot more JUNK available for it. In order to get companies a quick sale. This can often disguise itself as "being cheaper to mod". Tell me one part you can buy for the 240 that they just plain don't make for a 7 because of popularity, don't get smart with me and list engine internals.That was another bad statement. Okay so back in the early 90's lets say the Rx-7 was better. Well who has a better suspension aftermarket community?i would guess the more COMMON one
^^ Yeah, I drew a frame of a man running on each fan blade. That is him running at idle
Ok, first of all why would i list engine internals if i specifically said suspension? Sounds like your getting smart with your self, chief. Also when did i say the" 240 has parts the Rx7 doesn't."
BUT with you imagining things that are in my post, i hope your aren't another Rx7 bias guy, so far with what you "read" it seems like it, If so just end the conversation here.
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.
I read your WHOLE post then clipped that one part to address it without rereading it, my mind narrowed it to "240s have more aftermarket support" that I was arguing. Which I reinterpreted as "you can buy more stuff for the 240" which makes me raise the question, what could you buy for a 240 that you couldn't upgrade on your 7 just as well? You also don't get a more supportive community than Rx-7s. Mechanics DON'T know how to work on these cars. The owner has to learn. Because of this, we really have to stick together for info, and helping hands. We're all really close because we all have to basically do the work ourselves and know we need the knowledge of other members, but a community argument is entirely different. (By the way, the engine internal stuff wasn't for you, I just didn't want to have to back up the sentence "Name one thing you can buy for a 240 that they don't make for the Rx-7" with a bunch of people reading it quickly, quoting me, and saying dumbass things like "piston rings" "cams" "headgaskets" etc.). I am not biased.I like the Rx-7s, but I am well aware of what it can and cannot do. What it does well, and doesn't do well. I am not one of those ro-tards (rotary retards) that'll say he prefers a rotary to an Ls1 any day, I do like my 7s to have rotaries though). The Rx-7 is a great car, I am not being biased when I am comparing it to a car that nissan made to squeeze more money out of their S-chassis as cheaply as possible. Also, some(don't feel like finding who said it, you or someone else) argue that you can get a 240 for cheap and spend the difference making it as fast or better than the 7, this is not true. Decent running N/A7s go for anywhere from $700 to $2000 depending on condition of cosmetics and touchy things like coolant systems and such because the rotary engine is misunderstood by so many,so people are scared to jump into it and the prices drop. 240s, being so common, are popular, and you're paying more money for the fact that everyone wants one rather than what the car is actually worth. An N/A Rx-7, although not too quick is priced competitively with a 240, a TII is considerably more, but you get considerably more car for the money as well. Once again, a stock 240 really isn't all that special, and an true N/A 7 isn't either, but it's still going to outperform the 240 stock for stock. If you try to argue that with the age of the cars, I bet they both held up the same pretty well, if one started off better than the other, chances are it's probably still ahead, both cars are going to be aging.Ok, first of all why would i list engine internals if i specifically said suspension? Sounds like your getting smart with your self, chief. Also when did i say the" 240 has parts the Rx7 doesn't."
BUT with you imagining things that are in my post, i hope your aren't another Rx7 bias guy, so far with what you "read" it seems like it, If so just end the conversation here.
I just want to somethings up. I am comparing stock for stock for simplicity, there are specs for these comparisons, there are component types (most of which the N/A 7 and 240 are the same, and the TII is much better), as well as a baseline for depreciative price points and such. My whole point with he aftermarket was that it really shouldn't matter much about the car itself, with cars liek these, it differs too little to effect the purchase of the vehicle itself. I will say that N/A 7s have a huge hp ceiling, where at 180 to 200-ish hp, it's going to start getting REALLY expensive if you want to get more power, where the 240 has MANY options for power delivery, which include, but are not limited to, light Ka upgrades, engine swaps, induction setups, easier timing adjustments and whatnot. The S-chassis also has the benefit of taking some really good parts directly from the 300ZX, Skyline, and Silvia cars, with little or no fab work. The 240 gets better gas mileage, makes more torque, has back seats, will pass emissions easier, generate less heat, hold up better (I will argue that the engine's are every bit as reliableaseach other if you know what you're doing, the heat and average running RPM or a rotary will wear out the accessories faster, cooling/oil systems etc.). The 240 won't (well shouldn't) burn oil, doesn't need as thorough of warmups(although you should thoroughly warm up any car), and there is more mainstream knowelege and shops can actually work on your car fi you're stumped with something. See, I am not close minded, I can take in to account all of these factors. I of course prefer an Rx-7 in terms of the preference alone.
ONCE AGAIN for the purpose of this comparison, I use the simplist comparo, stock for stock, the 7 is a better car. You start off farther ahead. If you want to tackle nothing but suspension, I say keep in mind that the 7 was BUILT for handling, it was sculpted around the rotary, JUST to turn. You will run into HUGE power delivery disadvantages, but it's al about what the car is built for.
( might also add to this short novel of writing, that I am benchmarking handling by roadholding and predictability, I am not sure if someone considers "good handling" the ability to drift or w/e)
^^ Yeah, I drew a frame of a man running on each fan blade. That is him running at idle
Rear seat floormats.
i can buy re-built small block chevy's all day for less than 1k. and get a warranty.
Another point no one has made yet is while driving you utilize the power differently. It is hard to explain but when you start to drive any rotary you'll find out what I am talking about.
Try not. Do or Do not.
thanks for all the help guys im leaning towards the 7 a lot. lol i have always liked the styling of them and i dont plan on doin anything major to the motor for a while. and thanks for the input SHADOW, will be lookin forward to seein the car in person tomorrow. again thanks for all the input guys!!
lol no problem...i do know one thing if the car wasnt a vert i would be keeping it hands down but it just doesnt fit with what i want to do with the car...i know sooner or later i will be picking up a TII.
Hey eraser let me check with my guy and see if he has any of those radio surrounds...dude lives up in buford area and has every conceivable part i have needed.
^ Good choice
btw eraser I'm in the process of hunting you down a radio surround
Heck yeah man. LMK what you find. I am going to be listing my C/F one for sale tomorrow.
Try not. Do or Do not.
all the guy wanted to know which car would make him look better, and of course the 7 wins!!
Peek-a-boo mofucka what now?!
rx7 hands down!
buy my FC Turbo
IA Rules doesn't allow these images in sigs
- IA Mgmt
I still don't get why people think the rotary is high maint.
To address the suspension thing the rx7 has as much if not more options than the 240...you have to remember the rx7 has been around longer, is much more popular for club racing, and the 240 has only been a big tuning platform since the inception of drifting back in the early 2000's where as the rx7 has been an icon sports car from the day it was released.
Not trying to be some fan boi but way too many people talk about the rx7 and more specifically the rotary engine without the actual knowledge of what that engine is all about and understanding just how simple the engine is.
Im sorry i avoided everything but this one line. Please tell me your joking or are you being hypocritical and making the same assumptions people are with "rotarys" you claim?
Honestly man, options? Okay, let me check the options of my 09 rx...... oh wait never mind. if i wanted a pure sports "new" car i would have bought a Ferrari. The motor compaired to the KA the KA is build more stout then the 13b, (more so the bottom end) but thats the facts man. Yea sure it has three working parts, but you have avoided the main point, this guy was asking advice on which one. I pointed Pro's and cons of BOTH (though not all) im sorry but saying this is a clubs man car, is more worthless information.
RELIABLITY:240
MPG:240
Power out the box:rx-7 (turbo)
Mod FRIENDLY:240
Clubman(though really who gives a fuck?):Rx-7
Stouter motor:KA
^thats just a few.
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.
LOL, he's saying club racing over the course of 20-30 years has developed a lot of QUALITY race proven parts, and a very decent aftermarket support. You are basing your aftermarket support with a 10 year old drifting fad of cheap college kids and young-20 somethings wanting to go sideways cause it looks cool, and a movie came out about it. Look who is sounding biased now......
Also, I did say I would argue reliability of a 13B block to a KA block. An engine is as reliable as its owner, you have to shake the rotary horror stories you hear, because most of them are caused by idiots. If you do want to argue that the Ka is stronger, you and I could meet up and have a"who can hold 7K RPM for longer" competition, followed closely by a "observe how loud the 240s lifter ticking is" competition. Oh, but we might not have time for "who's intake and exhaust timing has worn due to age and chain wear competition".
Last edited by 87 Turbo II; 08-28-2009 at 01:00 AM.
^^ Yeah, I drew a frame of a man running on each fan blade. That is him running at idle
you just proved to me im not a fan boy, but i am all in the same sentence. Why would i bash my after market support and sound biased?
I guess the 70-80k Apex seal fault line has nothing to do with reliability?
Holding high RPM's doesnt mean the car is reliable.
The KA is a long stroke motor, she dont like high RPM. lol chain wear i guess 240's with over 200k and the STOCK timing chain is bad?i prefer the chain over the belt lol. but that is another backing up of my reliablity to KA
EIDT: i will honestly say i dont know much about rotarys, i just want to back the 240 up, in the least bias way possible.
Also, in your post about the motor is all about the owner, if you noticed i said that in my previous post as well, BUT im stating KA can take a bit more.
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows public opinion.
I am confused, but I think you're referring to a part of my post where I got a bit insulting and out of hand.you just proved to me im not a fan boy, but i am all in the same sentence. Why would i bash my after market support and sound biased?
No one told my 230,000 mile engine it was supposed to blow up before I got my 13B swap, only FDs do that and thats because twin turbos develop a lot of pressure and heatI guess the 70-80k Apex seal fault line has nothing to do with reliability?
Depending on your gearing, and the track you run, it very well may be, at least for us 7 guys, the powerband is all above 5K, so we shift to keep it up there(I'll admit I don't know where the powerband is on a stock cam 240, or the shift points, so this figure might not matter.Holding high RPM's doesnt mean the car is reliable.
If the Ka wasn't made to see high RPM, it shouldn't redline at 7,200 like it does, and yes, chain > belt, but the Rx-7 relies on only one belt, and it's to keep the alternator and water pump going, our timing is fixed for the life of the engine, so it doesn't creep with wear.I'm pretty sure... no wait you dont, The KA is a LONG stroke motor, she dont like high RPM. lol chain wear? lol belt<chain. i guess 240's with over 200k with the STOCK timing chain .
still trying to keep the same respect we had going earlier, these are just, based on my knowelege how I feel. And I am sorry if I started getting a little fanboy, or immature, or bashing towards the 240s, but the other guy kind of pissed me off.
^^ Yeah, I drew a frame of a man running on each fan blade. That is him running at idle
i'll close with this.....
I've seen a lot more rx7s with Nissan engines than i have Nissans with mazda engines. The only people who like rotary engines are the rotary fan boys.. and there's no convincing them otherwise. They all like to talk about how great and reliable the rotary engine is... yet probably about 50% of the rx7 population has a piston engine in it.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
