*-*H23/VTEC*-*H-Series Build Questions

[TheChosenOne]

I have done my fair share of research on Honda-Tech, so there shouldn't be any reason for me to wear a flame suit for this one, boyzzz.

I'm gunna need all of my true Georgia builders to chime in on this one.

I want to build a beast. GSR??? Nahn... B20/Vtec??? Ehn uhn. B is too low in the alphabet for me, I wanna build an H23/Vtec.

Now, for all those who don't know, the H23/Vtec, in a nutshell, is a H22 Vtec head mated with a H23 non-Vtec block. Now, enitialy, I related it to what I knew... a Ls/Vtec or a B20/Vtec... just build it right and use ARP head studs, and it should be fine. Right...?

...this was my thinking in the beginning.

After days upon days of thread lurking I have these major questions to address:

1. With F-H series compatabilites, what can/should I use from the H22, and what can/should I use from the H23?

2A. Taking into the considerations the limitations of the H23 block, how much attention/money should I put into the rotating assembly?
2B. Are the stock h23 rods sufficient to handle 7k RPMs?
2C. Are Type-S pistons a grey area like CTR pistons are with a Ls/Vtec?

3. Are the oil squirters completly neccessary?

I know it's a lot to throw at cha in one thread, but help a brutha out IA!

[ATK_Designs]

Last I looked into it, people did that. However, headaches isn't worth it. To be honest, I'd take a H22 and build it up from there.

[G.C]

i feel the same way. With the money saved from the h23 vtec you can make more power on a h22a. but its your project my .02 dont matter. and sorry i dont know any answers to your question. try asking allmotoronly. he knows a lot bout h22 and stuff since he built many himself.

[TheChosenOne]

Last I looked into it, people did that. However, headaches isn't worth it. To be honest, I'd take a H22 and build it up from there.

I don't want to build an H22. Reason being is because... I just don't wanna. lol, but for real, there is no replacement for displacement. I don't want to bore or stroke the H22 because they have different cylinder walls than most B & D series.

i feel the same way. With the money saved from the h23 vtec you can make more power on a h22a. but its your project my .02 dont matter. and sorry i dont know any answers to your question. try asking allmotoronly. he knows a lot bout h22 and stuff since he built many himself.

...I beg to differ. Just two weeks ago, with the IA Parts For Sale section in my corner, I was able to spot a complete H23 for $100 obo, and a h22 head without cams for $100 bux. Go look in the For Sale section now and tell me how much a "disassembled H22 longblock is going for...$800 Phacking dollars.

Thanks for the replies guys! Keep um comming.

[eze_ka-t]

???? so i see what you're doing with your moneyz lol. good luck man.

[TheChosenOne]

???? so i see what you're doing with your moneyz lol. good luck man.

... I wish I had money. This is Check-2-Check Motorsports right here, my man.

Shyt... I'm still paying for maintenance that my mechanic did to my car for me upfront.

I just want to get everything spec'd out and understood before I waste any money. All-in-all. I am going to put this motor together for under $2000.

[xdavidscenex]

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=510617&page=1

ftw. good luck with the build!

[EmminoDaGreat]

Why not just buy the H23 vtec? Its a blue top... Honda actually "created it"... and no its not an F20B I am talking about...

[DC2NR]

Sounds like a fun build ... keep me posted

[TheChosenOne]

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=510617&page=1

ftw. good luck with the build!

Thanks dude, but I almost could recite the first couple of page for you...

They never REALLYYY say whether or not the oil squirters are a must.

[TheChosenOne]

Why not just buy the H23 vtec? Its a blue top... Honda actually "created it"... and no its not an F20B I am talking about...

1. Cause I'm a broke asss and it's not the easiest thing to get your hands on
2. Cause I want to BUILD a H23/Vtec... not buy one. I would just feel better if I drove something that I built instead of bought...

[Sushi]

1. Cause I'm a broke asss and it's not the easiest thing to get your hands on
2. Cause I want to BUILD a H23/Vtec... not buy one. I would just feel better if I drove something that I built instead of bought...

man with that kind of mindset you might as well make your own motor. start melting down some metal!

Also if you don't have money to began with then you probably aren't gonna want to start a hybrid motor build. Go with whats proven and reliable LS/VTECs are reliable but have to be built right the first time and that means spending those EXTRA DOLLARS. So if you don't have money. H22 would be a more cost effective swap. You cant always get everything you want so work with what you got!

[TheChosenOne]

man with that kind of mindset you might as well make your own motor. start melting down some metal!

Also if you don't have money to began with then you probably aren't gonna want to start a hybrid motor build. Go with whats proven and reliable LS/VTECs are reliable but have to be built right the first time and that means spending those EXTRA DOLLARS. So if you don't have money. H22 would be a more cost effective swap. You cant always get everything you want so work with what you got!

... you almost swayed me there... .

uhhhhmmmm, back to the point of this whole thread...

[Sushi]

its simple. H22A > H23/VTEC

[TheChosenOne]

its simple. H22A > H23/VTEC

Dude, I already thanked you for you opinion once. I don't want to be a duche but the next time you post something off topic I'm gunna neg rep you.

If I needed anyones personal opinion on whether or not the H23/Vtec was worth it, that wold have been the phacking thread title!

Now, here are the questions that I needed answered, AGAIN:
1. With F-H series compatabilites, what can/should I use from the H22, and what can/should I use from the H23?

2A. Taking into the considerations the limitations of the H23 block, how much attention/money should I put into the rotating assembly?
2B. Are the stock h23 rods sufficient to handle 7k RPMs?
2C. Are Type-S pistons a grey area like CTR pistons are with a Ls/Vtec?

3. Are the oil squirters completly neccessary?
Now you tell me if you, Sushi, have answered anything I needed to know...

[Sammich]

JUST FOR MY INFO..WHAT ENGINE WAS DONE BY HONDA THAT IS THE 'H23/VTEC'?

ALSO I WOULD EITHER..KEEP THE F22 BLOCK AND THROW THE H22 HEAD ON IT..OR JUST DO THE H22 SWAP...

[southside]

you could check out the parts from the bluetop and see if you can find some of that stuff.Like rods and pistons so your car will hold up at higher rpms.Also have you checked the bore of h23 pistons and other compatible motors with same bore.That way you can use better oem pistons ,rods and save cash.

[eze_ka-t]

... I wish I had money. This is Check-2-Check Motorsports right here, my man.

Shyt... I'm still paying for maintenance that my mechanic did to my car for me upfront.

I just want to get everything spec'd out and understood before I waste any money. All-in-all. I am going to put this motor together for under $2000.

haha i hear dude. well good luck with the build.

[G.C]

JUST FOR MY INFO..WHAT ENGINE WAS DONE BY HONDA THAT IS THE 'H23/VTEC'?

ALSO I WOULD EITHER..KEEP THE F22 BLOCK AND THROW THE H22 HEAD ON IT..OR JUST DO THE H22 SWAP...

Accord Sir-T Wagons

[IntegraXTR]

People are trying to give you the answer that you need but you're still stuck on the h23 vtec thing.

1st, if its really that serious then just get a Euro R motor, red top, h23a2. enough said
2nd, I see that you stated "is it worth it to invest into the rotating assembly?" Well if you're gonna take the motor apart anyways then why not bore to a 2.3? This would be a little more cost efficient. Reason for is you can pick up a H22 for $800 and under.
3rd, the h23 rods do not like revs, so 7k would be about it for you. ARP rod bolts would be a good investment for the long run.

Those are just my opinions, so don't get offended. But if you're planning to build for about $2k, then I would just go h2b, you won't regret it. This is not an opinion, this is a fact. The m2b4 tranny is pretty much the only option for a tranny if you're going H, every other tranny sucks. But with a b-series tranny you can take advantage of the torque that a H puts out.

Last, you're right about there is no replacement for displacement, but you're gonna be pretty disappointed when a h2b comes around. 2.3 isn't a big diff.

Disregard all that if you're dropping this motor into a accord.

[G.C]

Well if your a broke a$$, you shouldn't do this swap. All the labor,Machine Shop,Time,Parts your going to spend on it. Its not worth it for a minimum gain.

[K24cb7coupe]

i thought we take about this already. h23 vtec hybrid are trash. either buy the h23 vtec from japland or buy my built h22. or build a sohc monster like you were planning. i started mine already, where you at???

[Sammich]

h23a2??

[IntegraXTR]

h23a2??

yes, EURO R motor. Honda actually produced this.

[Sammich]

LINK TO IT?? I DIDNT SEE IT ON EGAY

[Code-Aye]

oh sh1t jay whats going to be coming out of your crazy grage now.
My motor is rod knocked so...i got mad plans

[00CelicaGT]

PM DAKILLA4EVA

THIS IS A FRIEND OF MINE THAT BEEN DOING HIS RESEARCH FOR OVER A YEAR ON THE 23/VTEC BUT HAS STRAYED AWAY FROM THAT PROJECT TO WORK ON SOME OTHERS. HE HAS SPOKEN W/ A HAND FULL OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE SUCCESFULLY BUILT A 23/VTEC AND SOME THAT HAVE BLEW THE PISS OUT OF THEM. HE WILL PROBABLY BE THE BEST SOURCE OF INFO SINCE U CAN TALK TO HIM DIRECTLY.

MOST PEOPLE ON IA ONLY MESS WIT B,D SERIES ENGINES... SO I WOULN'T EXPECT TOO MUCH HELP FOR THEM.

GOOD LUCK

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

I have done my fair share of research on Honda-Tech, so there shouldn't be any reason for me to wear a flame suit for this one, boyzzz.

I'm gunna need all of my true Georgia builders to chime in on this one.

I want to build a beast. GSR??? Nahn... B20/Vtec??? Ehn uhn. B is too low in the alphabet for me, I wanna build an H23/Vtec.

Now, for all those who don't know, the H23/Vtec, in a nutshell, is a H22 Vtec head mated with a H23 non-Vtec block. Now, enitialy, I related it to what I knew... a Ls/Vtec or a B20/Vtec... just build it right and use ARP head studs, and it should be fine. Right...?

you should be fine relate to other questions

1. With F-H series compatabilites, what can/should I use from the H22, and what can/should I use from the H23?

you should use the pistons complete and complete top end of the h22, including new valve locks especially if you upgrade the valve train.... h23 rods, and crank....

2A. Taking into the considerations the limitations of the H23 block, how much attention/money should I put into the rotating assembly?

you should get the crank balanced and what nots like new bearings and stuff like that

2B. Are the stock h23 rods sufficient to handle 7k RPMs?

no the h23 bottom end will not hold the revs you will be stuck with the stock redline of a h23..... that is the major downfall of a 23vtec everybody revs it out to h22 redline kill the low reving h23 bottom end..

2C. Are Type-S pistons a grey area like CTR pistons are with a Ls/Vtec?

type s pistons will fit and even work in the h23 stock as a high compression pistons and will work with a h23 mild cam and give great power increase and they will work on the 23vtec

3. Are the oil squirters completly neccessary?

YES!!! vtec motors require more oil and you need the oil squirters
remember do it once do it right and cheap + fast = not reliable good luck with the build keep us posted and you might want to join preludezone.com and chit chat with 98vtec he has done it and it has been reliable

[h23bb2]

why not build an all motor H23?

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

why not build an all motor H23?

lack of perfomance parts basically.....you have one brand of cams made for the h23 i think it is crowler.... one intake manifold which is garbage it is the obx mani..... you could use h22 pistons(performance) but you have to do the calculations right i think the mahle 11:1 pistons in a h23 make almost 12.8:1 compression if i am not mistaken so if this is goin to be daily driven you can't do that unless your willing to pay the 10+ dollar a gallon for race fuel

[Vteckidd]

Now for the answer you dont want to hear.

ITS STUPID, DONT DO IT.

Unless you have $5000 to spend, you wont be able to do it right and youll end up like youre last car, tons of problems and selling it for a discount.

If you can really sit here and rationalize to the NA Gurus of IA that .1 liter is worth the effort of doing stupid unreliable hybrid crap, please, enlighten me.

The H23/H22 Vtec is not nearly as simple as the LSVTEC. The h23 bottom end is a long stroke which means you cant utilize the RPMs that VTEC needs to make power.

The H23 is usually a tired old worn out engine, ive never seen one in good shape. So that means youre going to be doing a rebuild at minimum. Bearings, ARP Bolts, Balancing, etc.

Then you have the pesky Conversion to do, not hard, but now you need a headgasket, oil lines, machine work, etc.

Unless you are doing a BUILT motor the Hybrid VTEC stuff is STUPID.

Buy an H22, it will make 190whp STOCK. And H23 VTEC will make the same but unless you rebuild it WILL BLOW UP/SPIN A BEARING/BLOW A HEADGASKET.

You can sit here an try to justify how much BETTER it is, but ive been around a long time, unless you have the CASH to really rebuild it and do it RIGHT, its a WORTHLESS SWAP.

Youll have more headaches on your hands than power.

H22 longblocks are $900-1000 COM<PLETE. If you are bitching about that, then you shouldnt be doing a H23/VTEC swap, you just dont have the money to do it right, and thats ok.

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

Now for the answer you dont want to hear.

ITS STUPID, DONT DO IT.

Unless you have $5000 to spend, you wont be able to do it right and youll end up like youre last car, tons of problems and selling it for a discount.

If you can really sit here and rationalize to the NA Gurus of IA that .1 liter is worth the effort of doing stupid unreliable hybrid crap, please, enlighten me.

The H23/H22 Vtec is not nearly as simple as the LSVTEC. The h23 bottom end is a long stroke which means you cant utilize the RPMs that VTEC needs to make power.

The H23 is usually a tired old worn out engine, ive never seen one in good shape. So that means youre going to be doing a rebuild at minimum. Bearings, ARP Bolts, Balancing, etc.

Then you have the pesky Conversion to do, not hard, but now you need a headgasket, oil lines, machine work, etc.

Unless you are doing a BUILT motor the Hybrid VTEC stuff is STUPID.

Buy an H22, it will make 190whp STOCK. And H23 VTEC will make the same but unless you rebuild it WILL BLOW UP/SPIN A BEARING/BLOW A HEADGASKET.

You can sit here an try to justify how much BETTER it is, but ive been around a long time, unless you have the CASH to really rebuild it and do it RIGHT, its a WORTHLESS SWAP.

Youll have more headaches on your hands than power.

H22 longblocks are $900-1000 COM<PLETE. If you are bitching about that, then you shouldnt be doing a H23/VTEC swap, you just dont have the money to do it right, and thats ok.

hate to say it but i agree with his statement with the money spent on an h23 vtec you could have bought a type s motor, euro r motor, or bought a h22a.... then bought the type s pistons cams and euro r intake mani and built your own type s... but like i said you can do what you do just do it right the first time

[southside]

dang KiDD

[h23bb2]

lack of perfomance parts basically.....you have one brand of cams made for the h23 i think it is crowler.... one intake manifold which is garbage it is the obx mani..... you could use h22 pistons(performance) but you have to do the calculations right i think the mahle 11:1 pistons in a h23 make almost 12.8:1 compression if i am not mistaken so if this is goin to be daily driven you can't do that unless your willing to pay the 10+ dollar a gallon for race fuel

try two or three companies making cams and valvtrain: crower, delta (not 100% sure about them), and bisimoto. spoke to davis the other day and we discussed compression ratios.
stock H22A4 piston w/ H23 head= 11.8:1 pushing the limits of piston/valve clearance and pump gas if you use aftermarket cams
Mahle H22 9.0:1 compression pistons w/ H23 head= 10.8:1 which is milder than the 11.8 but alot better than the stock 9.8:1



general build information

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1046336

results

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1052811

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1495684

Excellent company that's well known in their SOHC exploits with D series and F series, but build superb products for all honda applications

http://bisimoto.net/store/index.php?main_page=index

cams etc..

http://bisimoto.net/store/index.php?...Path=3_9_17_38

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

try two or three companies making cams and valvtrain: crower, delta (not 100% sure about them), and bisimoto. spoke to davis the other day and we discussed compression ratios.
stock H22A4 piston w/ H23 head= 11.8:1 pushing the limits of piston/valve clearance and pump gas if you use aftermarket cams
Mahle H22 9.0:1 compression pistons w/ H23 head= 10.8:1 which is milder than the 11.8 but alot better than the stock 9.8:1



general build information

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1046336

results

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1052811

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1495684

Excellent company that's well known in their SOHC exploits with D series and F series, but build superb products for all honda applications

http://bisimoto.net/store/index.php?main_page=index

cams etc..

http://bisimoto.net/store/index.php?...Path=3_9_17_38

where do you think i said the h22 11:1 pistons would skyrocket the compression to dangerous levels i have heard of bisimoto and so on and so on.... when i said lack of performance parts i mean there is nothing except the valve train that is specified for the h23 and if you look 90% of parts for hseries are for h22.... an all motor h23 is goin to take a whole lot more research than a all motor h22 considering the research has been done for a h22....trust me i may not have it on hand like d with all his research on his computer but i can get to it just like him i have done my research and on my desicion i am better off with my h22....

[clean CD5]

ok bro i was attempting this plann of action and here's what i came across!

H23- great motor for torque but like any honda VTEC engine it makes it's horsepower on the top end of the powerband, yes i know the 2.3 will give you more grunt on low end but that block has about a 6500rpm redline and dosent like to go far beyond that! i could see taking an H22 and throwing in a F23/H23 crank but now we are just defeating the whole purpose of what we want (VTEC, high revs, etc.) now maybe that can be sovled with a cam that makes VTEC changeover seemless (skunk 2 pro 2) but that only flattens the powerband and eliminates the classic VTEC change over witch makes daily driving a bit*h and sucky idle (you may not care tho)!

H22- this is what we want! a motor that is in fine working order has VTEC, has high revs, and makes horsepower the best way honda knows how! if you want an H-series beast here
68mm throttle body
H22 type s intake manifold
ported head
skunk 2 stage 2 cams
mahle 10.5:1 comp gold series pistons
shaved block (ups the comp. .5)
Ti valve springs retainers etc
decent header and exhaust
matted to an H22 trans.

keep in mind this is my first build but in the last month this is what i've learned! it's a hard pill to swallow but H22 just out weighs by sheer convience! i'll shut up now!

oh and feel free to get me straight if i did something wrong this IS my FIRST build, hope it helps tho!

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

ok bro i was attempting this plann of action and here's what i came across!

H23- great motor for torque but like any honda VTEC engine it makes it's horsepower on the top end of the powerband, yes i know the 2.3 will give you more grunt on low end but that block has about a 6500rpm redline and dosent like to go far beyond that! i could see taking an H22 and throwing in a F23/H23 crank but now we are just defeating the whole purpose of what we want (VTEC, high revs, etc.) now maybe that can be sovled with a cam that makes VTEC changeover seemless (skunk 2 pro 2) but that only flattens the powerband and eliminates the classic VTEC change over witch makes daily driving a bit*h and sucky idle (you may not care tho)!

H22- this is what we want! a motor that is in fine working order has VTEC, has high revs, and makes horsepower the best way honda knows how! if you want an H-series beast here
68mm throttle body
H22 type s intake manifold
ported head
skunk 2 stage 2 cams
mahle 10.5:1 comp gold series pistons
shaved block (ups the comp. .5)
Ti valve springs retainers etc
decent header and exhaust
matted to an H22 trans.

keep in mind this is my first build but in the last month this is what i've learned! it's a hard pill to swallow but H22 just out weighs by sheer convience! i'll shut up now!

oh and feel free to get me straight if i did something wrong this IS my FIRST build, hope it helps tho!

i like the build set up this site may help you with what you need www.zealautowerks.com

[TheChosenOne]

...


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..............


You guys...... .....


YOUR THE BEST!!!

Just when I was about to go do some ignorant niggga s****, ya'll bring my high asss back down.
I will admit, I was set on that phacking H23/Vtec, and only my mother with "Jesus", himself, in hand, would have stopped me! But all of you are right, and I just didn't want to hear it. But just hear what I wanted my setup to be, and see how something of this nature could have been appealing to Honda-Whore such as myself:

H22 head w/STOCK cams & valvetrain w/a mild port
OEM H22 Headgasket
ARP Head Studs
OEM H22 Type-S pistons
STOCK H23 Rods shot peened & polished
OEM H23 Crank balanced

(I would have had all of the bottomend balanced with the flywheel & clutch)
EVO H2B kit
GSR Tranny

...and I'M NOT DONE YET! I WANTED to put all this in a EG or a EJ. Now, of course this was going to take atleast two years to do, but I wanted to build the motor before I had the car.

BUT... With that being said... .

...ashes to ashes and dust to dust... ........

Aight NOW!!! Enough with that BITCHASSNESS!!


Now, I'll probably just keep saving up, and get the other CAR first, then work my way up to the H2Bizzie. I guess I was just trying to put the cart before the horse...

STOOPID reps to all ya'll for keeping me from phacking up my credit with credit card booboo's from chasing a Unicorn-motor.

[southside]

haha h23/vtec is like the Eleanor of Hondas lol

[TheChosenOne]

haha h23/vtec is like the Eleanor of Hondas lol

And the sad part is, I wanted to phack her until 10 minutes ago...