Originally Posted by NissanTun3r
Again I don't think hp numbers or anything like that matter. I mean true driving experiance.
The M3 has a soul. A life to it. The GTR is just an expensive piece of steel, glass, plastic and rubber.
Again I don't think hp numbers or anything like that matter. I mean true driving experiance.
The M3 has a soul. A life to it. The GTR is just an expensive piece of steel, glass, plastic and rubber.
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Maybe, but unless you've driven a GT-R, you shouldn't imply it has no life...It could suprise you. But maybe you're one of the types of people who make up their mind about something based on absolutely nothing...and are too ignorant to open your eyes and see the truth. Ignorance is bliss right? I'm not saying the GT-R is the best car ever, I just don't understand how you can say a car has no soul without ever having driven it....
The new M3 is a blast to drive, the new GTR is like driving on GT4. Sure it's fun, but it's vague and forgivable.
Driving should make a person feel like this....
Exactly
I agree it costs. The funny thing is they are 2 months behind yet review the same vehicles our magazines here get. IMO, well worth the money.
I'm also a Porche fan so Excellence, Total 911 are musts, and I get the occasional other P mag...
Yes, go to B&N or Borders. With Borders, you can sign up as a member for free and get 5% off by just showing your card or giving them your e-mail.
Its worth every penny. The only reason I get C&D or anything like it is if I get them for free or a $2 subscription.
EVO/CAR/TOP Gear are $10 a piece, damn Dollar vs Euro keeps making the mag higher.
BUT THE BEST AMERICAN MAG TO BUY IS "SPORTS CAR INTERNATIONAL"!!!!
I've subscribed for years, it is on par with the Euro mags. They NEVER test SUVs or TRUCKS. Everything from Civic Si to Bugatti's. Once its sporty, they test it. Great writing and pics and only $5.
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I'm guessing you've never driven a high hp n/a car then...
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^Obviously not lol.
I THINK that a nice NA car is 10x more fun then a boosted car.
Lets just look at the M3s progression
E30-I-4
E36-I-6
E46-I-5
E90/92-V-8
However, Audi will ditch the V-8 in the S4 and go back to a TT V-6 ala B5 the new generation.
And we have seen chipped TT 335s run with M5s and M3s..
Different strokes for different folks. My fav is a nice torquey V-8. Check the sig
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I'm sorry but I'd still choose the GTR as well and for the most part I do not like the car. Its very practical, has a back seat, nearly no turbo lag, and the power curve of a torquey V8. The M3's V8 is hardly torquey but does sound sick. Nissan lost much of their engine sickness when they ditched the RB, not many engines sound like a built RB singing at 9K. I like the new BMW's but they are for the crowd that wants a good handling luxury car with power. Its extremely comfortable and has been tamed down on each new edition. Yes the motors have always been wonderful and the suspension always tight and predictable but it just keeps getting heavier. The E30 M3's were still the best in my opinion in both true M performance and looks. Ever since then the M division has been building too much luxury into the car. The GTR has the luxury and the weight but has the traction and power to cope with it but it does lack some of that driving experience that BMW has always had. This is the first version on this platform, it will get better.
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E46 was I6Lets just look at the M3s progression
E30-I-4
E36-I-6
E46-I-5
E90/92-V-8
However, Audi will ditch the V-8 in the S4 and go back to a TT V-6 ala B5 the new generation.
And we have seen chipped TT 335s run with M5s and M3s..
Different strokes for different folks. My fav is a nice torquey V-8. Check the sig
Car & Driver must be on BMW's payroll.
Really though, that car must be incredible.
I would rather have a M3 over the GTR. I saw the top gear review on it, and tailsliding it around the track looked extremely fun. Plus it can haul the family around in comfort. It's win win in my book.
98 Subaru Legacy GT
89 325i. 400hp hoon-mobile.
Is everyone forgetting the GTR has a back seat, they always have. Its about the same size as a G35 coupe back seat which is plenty big enough for kids or small adults.
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Reguardless of the back seat or not, BMW makes a better car.
The M series cars are the top notch vehicles around. The are the balance between a powerful sports car, and then roll up the windows turn the A/C on and youve got quite a luxary car.
The GTR to me is just a faster 350z. I don't even understand why they made it look like they did. It looks nothing like the R34 or the previous skylines.
The M3 however, follows quite a family of stylish cars.
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That's because it's not really supposed to. The GT-R is the next chapter in the GT-R story and they wanted to start fresh. They carried over the tails and thats about it.
I do wonder however if they will make a CSL of the new M3 or not cause that would be a serious contender.
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CSL? the C63 AMG is already faster than the M3
lol,nvm i feel dumb.........M3 CSL
M3 ftw!!!!!!!
Oh the things you could do to the M3 with that extra $20 grand you didn't spend on the GT-R...
I'm glad BMW decided to be true to the M badge and up the displacement instead instead of adding boost to the mix. The E92 exhaust note is honestly one of the most deadly sounding cars I've ever heard. 8k is music.
I'm pretty biased against the GT-R. I enjoy driving my cars, not being driven by them.
I think it was Chad who on the first page called the M a "luxury coupe" and the R35 a sportscar...I'm sure someone pretty soundly disproved that one already (without reading through the rest of the thread). The M is still 100lbs lighter than the GT-R. I'm not sure why folks are complaining about the E92's weight.
I guess I'm a purist for the most part, and the GT-R is as far from a pure driving experience as it gets these days. I'll drive a minivan if I want to let the vehicle do the driving and reacting for me.
///M ftw.
For me its like, Corvette Z06/ZR1>>GT500>C63 AMG>E92 M3>GTR.
Mine's the red one.
i agree with that...the M3 is a beast and an AMAZING car that i would not mind owning at all. i guess it kinda comes down to your taste and what you want out of a car.
in my eyes the M3 vs GTR is like accord coupe VS camaro
2 different classes of cars really. the M3 is one of the best, if not THE best luxury coupe ever made...but in the end it is a luxury coupe where the GTR is a sports car. i think they were built for 2 different kind of car people.
i want both
A M3 has always been a luxury coupe?!!? WTF is wrong with you?? HOW IS A GTR A SPORTS CAR???
And then you go on to say BMW made the M3 to be a pimp or something...BMW made the M3 as a street legal track car. I have seen a new M3 do nice FAST laps at Road Atlanta all day. They are fast on track. BMW has racing heritage, the M is like THE BMW.
A M3 has always been a luxury coupe?!!? WTF is wrong with you?? HOW IS A GTR A SPORTS CAR???
And then you go on to say BMW made the M3 to be a pimp or something...BMW made the M3 as a street legal track car. I have seen a new M3 do nice FAST laps at Road Atlanta all day. They are fast on track. BMW has racing heritage, the M is like THE BMW.
the gtr isnt a sports car?
Yeah I know that will get some arguments going..
Anyway as if I wasn't already convinced on the M3 I see these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEFV4...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx_6NLWhOWc&feature=user
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcKUP...eature=related
Honestly I know it would be crazy to choose an M3 over the GT-R, I absolutely love the look of the R35 and everything but I just don't care for turbos really. Naturally aspirated just adds to the whole driving experience and I will take high rev with a sweet exhaust note over low torque any day.
Sometimes its not about how fast you get from point A to point B, I think as you get older you appreciate the experience in getting there more than the speed itself.
Havent driven either one so obviously my opinion isn't worthon both cars but
+1.
I.M.O the cars are not very comparible. It's like comparing a Vette and an M3.They are in a different class...Saloon/Touring GT vs GT. Both are amazing at what they do. Both can be considered class leaders of their own class.
Compared to Vette's/Skylines, M3's just feel like a completely different car, it's still very civilized and the looks say that. You can pick up a client and not feel like your making anyone else uncomfortable. I guess you'd have to drive these cars to really understand what i'm saying, but they are simply apples and oranges that can throw down some good numbers.
As far as turbo's you have to drive the GTR in order to compare the two like that but I also do not prefer a car with forced induction from past experiences... and lots of seat time in ..However some new F.I cars (our A3 loaner, my neighbors 997 GT2) are simply so good I don't even feel that turbo hatred I have but it's still not enough to make me boost my car over an S54 swap..despite a 200whp difference.
No actually it's not...the gtr isnt a sports car?
lol if u say so..
neither the GTR or M3 are sports cars,thier both sport coupes or sport sedan
^Right.
i guess!
I dont see why people are obsessed with back seats.
This is America - we have a car for each person and the rear seats are used about 1% of the time even with 4D sedans. I only have 2 seats and I've yet to miss the rear seats.
I think the E92 is a great car, but BMW may have shot themselves in the foot with the 335. I have a hard time justifying that kinda money for the M3.
I just configured two BMWs:
335x 48000
M3: 61000
For 13k, I dont know.. the M3 may be a good upgrade!
You guys make a good point about "who drives who?".
I didn't want any compromises, so I went with the Z06. No regrets at all.
I think the GTR is AMAZING at making the most of what power it has.
The idea of an SMG or DSG transmission sounds pretty cool, but it does replace talent with technology.
Any way you look at it, many are envious of those who have the dilemma of chosing between such cars
I see people's point of "why a GTR?" I saw a 50 years old looking guy driving a GTR the other day and wondering why a GTR but not a 911....
But I do not get people's point of you are driving more of a car as in M3 to GTR. You still get more than enough gadgets in new performance cars now than ever. Electric throttle control, traction control, whatever shift the fastest gear box, ABS, etc (Yes, the M3 almost have all of these things too). You want to drive a "real car," you need to live in the 60's. And there is not a lot of people who can handle a 4/500 whp cars without any electric assistant anyways.
I will talk about which one I want once I have the ability to own one of them.
Last edited by chituntang; 08-25-2008 at 05:51 PM.
True. But those old cars had horrible handling compared to cars today.
I like the idea of having the option of turning off the T/C system instead of not having it at all (ahem viper).
Not saying you are, but implying that NOT having T/C makes the driver a lesser man is ridiculous. Thats the kinda sentiment the viper alley lives on.
Last edited by Atlblkz06; 08-25-2008 at 06:29 PM. Reason: Cant type...
One of the biased things for me is, Ive owned older german cars. The things even the old german cars do, the Japs still havent done.
For instance, my 1988 Jetta GLI had a average mpg feature. That was a cheap sport fwd German car made in the 80s. I have yet to see a similiar Japanese car with something as cool.
Or, the E36 coupe BMWs windows roll down about a half an inch when you open and go back up that half an inch when you close to make better aero-dynamics.
Specs mean nothing to me, overall driving experiance and how the cars are made are more to me.
**Also, the GTR is a Turbo 6 cylinder. When you give it some hell the turbo has to spool up to get the rear end sideways.
However... The M3 is a V8 HOSS. Take off the TC and itll romp those tires at 2k all you want.
Moving on to exhaust tones.... The GTR sounds cool when the turbo spools up and whines up the motor... Where-as the V8 M3... You can hear from a mile away roaring like hells angels coming to rip your face off.
Now, to me a sports car should sound like something is coming to kill you, your family, and wreck your town in the process. And truely, there is nothing like the V8 throating sinister growl.
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if most of the cars out didnt have traction control people would kill themselves..
I am not degrading any driver driving with any driving aids. I just do not like the people saying the GTR is like playing playstation, when the M3 is not. Hell, if you can set how long the headlight stays on after the car is shut off, I guess you are not driving anymore. You are just a computer administrator. Sure, the GTR does more on its own in driving aids, but this is my point:
You drive the M3, the other guy drives the GTR. You lose in every race you had with him, on the track, 1/4 mile, etc. But then you talk to your friends saying "he won because of his car."
WTF??
If you want to buy a M3, there is hardly any reasons to choose a GTR over it. GTR has as much, if not more than the M3 in terms of soul and passion, as it has its name in racing since like the 60's. M3 only started in the mid 80's. But when you buy either one, the reason behind your decision would be different.
I don't understand why people don't like paddle shifters, it has nothing to do with talent vs technology. It has everything to do with making the car faster. Its the next step in making cars faster. People threw up this same BS when synchros became popular and now no one even thinks about them. If you can't drive a standard 5/6 speed you're still going to suck in any one of the current crop of performance cars. Yes the computer can make an idiot look good but still can't overcome stupidity. If you're fast you will be faster with a proper paddle shifted car. If you want a car for the shear feel and experience of driving there are plenty of examples to choose from. When we get to this level of performance you pay for a faster car. If you want a subdued comfy cruiser that can still be respectable on the track buy the M3 and love every second in it. If you want a technology driven car that can go faster on the track and look more "modern", get the GTR. If you want to still go faster than open your wallet farther and buy something else. I agree these two cars are in completely different classes and its truly hard to lump them together because the people wanting a car in whichever class are still going to choose that one. No one in this thread could walk into a dealership and buy either of them and only a very few have even driven either car or even ridden in one. Everyone who is knocking on car vs the other who haven't driven them on the street and on the track are talking out their ass and need to leave the magazine rhetoric on the rack. I haven't driven either and can't buy either but I even know what they each are good for and honestly neither fit my tastes. I'd much rather prefer an E30 M3 Dinan turbo car myself. Everyone that hates boosted cars probably has yet to drive in any newer boosted car. The new 135/335's have nearly no lag and pull like mules, the same for the GTR. Personally if I was going to buy a new BMW it would be a 135 and spend the rest on some mods and have a car that was actually what I wanted and could outperform an M3. I could care less what badge is on the rear. Both were racing and dominating in different classes at about the same time. Both had versions outlawed because they were too fast. Both of their racing heritage is based on cars that weren't very close to the street cars anyways so honestly who gives a **** about it. That's like saying you're going to buy a Ford because they did well in Nascar.
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I dont have anything against paddle shifters, but list EVERY insane little technological thing the GTR has, and things that make the car fun.
Compare M3 to GTR, the only thing that makes the GTR less fun is the computerized AWD system. That's about it.
I disagree, paddle shifting has everything to do with talent vs technology.
I bet you I could sit in the GT-R, engage Launch control, put it in R6 mode, slam through the gears and hit good 1/4 mile times CONSISTENTLY. The only thing I have to do is steer and even that is taken away by the genius ATTESA system!
If an expert can hit 11.6 in that car, I can hit 11.8.
Take a RWD car in comparison, if an expert can hit 11.5, I can perhaps only hit 12.5. IT takes lots of practice to launch, shift and steer correctly.
it really doesnt have as much as u think..
it has alot of equipment so u can set the car up to how u like.
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