Quote Originally Posted by superboost
Anyways, I've driven both and I"ll give it to the bimmer. The reason why you add turbos to improve driveability is because there is this little force that turbos tend to add to an engine known as torque. Torque moves the car. Torque gets the car off the line sooner. HP and torque working together move the car down the road at a high rate of speed, which we are all fond of. Now if said vehicle is turbo charged in such a way as to allow the torque to come in sooner, it will accelerate faster, easier and more linearly than its NA cousin...Hence more driveable. The m3 on the other hand actually still makes more power than its boosted derivative, yet the turbo'd cousin will move off the line sooner and be more driveable as a result due to the greater (earlier) torque.
You obviously didn't get what I was trying to say.

NA vs NA, the Lexus STILL does and DID beat the BMW head-to-head. No question about that. THAT is my point. NA to NA is a true even keel level playing field comparo. Last year, the IS350 beat the 3 series BMW by more than a full sec to 60 and about the same in the 1/4. That's TROUNCING. THAT is the main reason why the twins were added to the 3 series and NOT the M series. That they added more torque and better off the line.....well, DUHHHHH!!! My whole direct point is simple:

Without the twins the BMW's performance compared to the IS350's is WHAT????? Look it up. Look back at previous head-to-head tests. The BMW has always had the incredible chassis and handling. No question. Just as the fit and finish go to the Lexus too. No question. But when you compare raw performance numbers, it is IMO highly unfair and biased if you compare an FI car with an NA car, even IF the HP numbers are close to each other because......drum roll......TORQUE....which in the NA motor can only come from ONE place whereas in the turbo motor is a function of simply turning up the boost. Get what I'm saying?

And lets not compare turbo IS3's to turbo M3s. We all know how beastly they can get.
I used this to illustrate how it wasn't fair to the M3 to pit it against a TURBO IS300 either. TURBO IS's SHOULD romp on NA M3's.....THAT is the point. It's NOT a fair comparo. Just like it's silly for everyone to be all goo goo and ga ga over BMW's 335 hitting 300 HP and great torque.....DUH, it has 2 turbos.....DUR, DUR!!!


Now if next gen, Toyota/Lexus decides to boost the IS, i'm sure it would be pretty cool. After all, they've been doing it longer/more than BMW have. They should have greater experience.
Look, I'm not a blinders on Lexus diehard. I love all kinds of cars, some BMW's included. Lexus is going to counter next year with the IS-F, although I think that's more geared toward competing with the M series. I actually like the look and technology behind the 335i. I've not yet driven one, but I'm certain I'll love it when I do. I wouldn't take anything away from a car that's a perenial winner. No doubt about it.

I just wanted to point out how it's ironic that all the automotive world and spectators are all a buzz about this "IS350 Killer" when if you want to truly break it down.....they did add twins to get to the same HP level that the Lexus has NA. Right or wrong? They did get beat rather handedly when it was NA vs NA. Right or wrong? Like I said above, the 335i is a very cool car. It has gobs of additional potential on top of already great attributes. Not taking anything at all away from them at all. I'm merely pointing out that it is not entirely fair to compare an NA car to an FI car as if they were complete equals because there is no way they can be IMO.