German Muscle vs. Japanese Hustle (335i vs IS350)

[superboost]

a famous man once said "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races". Looks like it applies here too.

available torque ftw by the bmw.

[BlkCD5]

There should be a poll. Honestly, who on here cares about the ownership costs of these two vehicles as a purchasing factor?

[Jaimecbr900]

Hmmm, so it took twin turbos to reach the performance level of an NA and that is some kind of "accomplishment"???? What's going to happen when Lexus comes out with their own "turbo" version of the IS?????

[Ran]

Hmmm, so it took twin turbos to reach the performance level of an NA and that is some kind of "accomplishment"???? What's going to happen when Lexus comes out with their own "turbo" version of the IS?????

They will complain about power delivery, harshness, or it just being too powerful for it's class. If you truly want a luxury car with reliability and excellent service, you'll get a Lexus.

I've seen repair costs from Volvo, Audi and similar upper-class companies for their turbo vehicles. The maintenance on a turbo BMW is going to kill some people.

[Jaimecbr900]

They will complain about power delivery, harshness, or it just being too powerful for it's class. If you truly want a luxury car with reliability and excellent service, you'll get a Lexus.

Preaching to the choir brother, preaching to the choir.....

I've seen repair costs from Volvo, Audi and similar upper-class companies for their turbo vehicles. The maintenance on a turbo BMW is going to kill some people.

Well, and that was kinda my point. Lexus has no factory turbo cars, probably one of reasons they are ranked so high in reliability every year. They like to build ultra reliable NA cars, and BMW was actually a lot like that up until now. I suspect that although BMW had larger displacement (up until the IS350 came out) and won every comparo (although I think some are very biased anyway) they got complacent. When Lexus took their crown, they pulled out all the stops and the 335i came about.

My question is this though:

Although I am biased, why would the automotive world be all giddy about a car that REQUIRES not 1 but 2 turbos to keep up???? Anyone can do that, right? Can they build an NA motor and put it in the 3 series to compete head-to-head though? That's just on the performance side, also remember interior, reliability, costs (both initial and maintainance), resale value, etc. should also be taken into consideration to truly crown a mid-size sport sedan like this. Question is, has the new 335i been upgraded enough to be so good all around to be on top of the heap???

BTW, what's going to happen when the IS-F comes out next year with over 400 NA HP???? Is BMW going to go QUAD turbo on us to keep up?????

[superboost]

Preaching to the choir brother, preaching to the choir.....




Although I am biased, why would the automotive world be all giddy about a car that REQUIRES not 1 but 2 turbos to keep up???? Anyone can do that, right? Can they build an NA motor and put it in the 3 series to compete head-to-head though? That's just on the performance side, also remember interior, reliability, costs (both initial and maintainance), resale value, etc. should also be taken into consideration to truly crown a mid-size sport sedan like this. Question is, has the new 335i been upgraded enough to be so good all around to be on top of the heap???

BTW, what's going to happen when the IS-F comes out next year with over 400 NA HP???? Is BMW going to go QUAD turbo on us to keep up?????

WEll, we all know that is a load of crap. They've put the turbos on for driveability, but not for power. When you look at this I6 vs the outgoing M3's I6, the 3.2 liter M3 engine it made 333hp in its regular NA trim and 350hp in its CSL trim. BMW has made powerful, reliable (albiet expensive) NA motors for years, so lexus making ultra-powerful, reliable NA motors or the fact that BMW requires turbos to keep up is just a cop out.

I think BMW did this more to improve the driveability of the car. To "keep up", if they wanted to do all out power, they could easily crank the boost, or add larger turbos, but they decided to reign things in to keep the torque peak high, yet even. The way it was engineered, the power comes on extremely early ,peaks early and is very broad. Contrast this to the high strung lexus motor, its apples and oranges, but due to the earlier peaking torque, the bimmer is going to take off earlier, no doubt about that.

However, to say they "require" turbos is bullshit. If anything, lexus/toyota delved into turbos much more than bmw with the Supras/ soarer etc. Until this particular car, BMW has always been known for its powerful, high revving NA motors and if you wanted to go that route, you know an M3 would easily trounce the IS350.

Its a nice car, but the m3 of old, or an M3 CSl would destroy the IS....but they're in two different classes entirely. All i'm saying is that BMW make legendary NA motors. Don't take that away from them.

[Jaimecbr900]

They've put the turbos on for driveability, but not for power.

Ummm, you smoking crack???? So according to YOU, the turbos were NOT added for power but to make the car "DRIVE" better????? That makes about as much sense as having sex with a prostitute without a condom....NONE at all.

When you look at this I6 vs the outgoing M3's I6, the 3.2 liter M3 engine it made 333hp in its regular NA trim and 350hp in its CSL trim. BMW has made powerful, reliable (albiet expensive) NA motors for years, so lexus making ultra-powerful, reliable NA motors or the fact that BMW requires turbos to keep up is just a cop out.

Apples to 747's. Even below you admit that the M series is NOT a comparo with the IS350, so why compare their engines then????

I think BMW did this more to improve the driveability of the car. To "keep up", if they wanted to do all out power, they could easily crank the boost, or add larger turbos, but they decided to reign things in to keep the torque peak high, yet even. The way it was engineered, the power comes on extremely early ,peaks early and is very broad. Contrast this to the high strung lexus motor, its apples and oranges, but due to the earlier peaking torque, the bimmer is going to take off earlier, no doubt about that.

To quote you, this is all a "cop out". So let me get this straight, BMW put in twin turbos NOT to regain their sports sedan performance title but for driveability yet all you talk about here refers to PERFORMANCE.....how's that work again? BTW, the ONLY reason they have a torque curve as nice as they do IS the twin turbos, no other reason.

However, to say they "require" turbos is bullshit. If anything, lexus/toyota delved into turbos much more than bmw with the Supras/ soarer etc. Until this particular car, BMW has always been known for its powerful, high revving NA motors and if you wanted to go that route, you know an M3 would easily trounce the IS350.

Wow, and BMW delved into airplanes before Toyota......what's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

Name a factory STOCK turbo Lexus. Name one. That's what I said, right? Not Toyota, Not Nissan, Not Mitsubishi....LEXUS has always and continue to make remarkably reliable NA motors in their entire line. BMW USED to be the same way. The real bottomline is that in a comparo test you should NOT be able to compare an NA motor to a TT motor if you are going to put so much emphasis on "performance" because that truly is an uneven playing field. THAT was my point.

Its a nice car, but the m3 of old, or an M3 CSl would destroy the IS....but they're in two different classes entirely. All i'm saying is that BMW make legendary NA motors. Don't take that away from them.

So why compare them or bring it up? My car is faster than a stock Lexus too, so why would that be a comparo? I know of several turbo IS3's that would smoke an M3. Again, what's that got to do with it? The comparison is of an IS350 vs 335i, not M series. As you acknowledge, it's not a fair comparo otherwise.

[ash7]

BTW, what's going to happen when the IS-F comes out next year with over 400 NA HP???? Is BMW going to go QUAD turbo on us to keep up?????

What's going to happen is there is going to be another poll, and everyone will talk about how awesome toyota is [for the exact same reasons you've outlined here].

NA FTMFW any day of the week

-jonathan

[DinanM3atl]

What's going to happen is there is going to be another poll, and everyone will talk about how awesome toyota is [for the exact same reasons you've outlined here].

NA FTMFW any day of the week

-jonathan

They will compare it to the e92/e90 M3... which has 400hp also!??!? OMG and it is NA...

The M3 will win it and then everyone will say "Well for the money I save on the IS-F I can make it faster". BMW only need 4L to make 412hp. Toyota needed 5

Plus it is ugly as fuck. Look at the exhaust? What fucking drunk fuck came up with this?





Plus F = Fast?

Wow! Is the Apple marketing team working with lexus? I really want it now!

[nbennettksu]

They will complain about power delivery, harshness, or it just being too powerful for it's class. If you truly want a luxury car with reliability and excellent service, you'll get a Lexus.

I've seen repair costs from Volvo, Audi and similar upper-class companies for their turbo vehicles. The maintenance on a turbo BMW is going to kill some people.

Maintenance on a turbo BMW is freefor 5years/50,000 miles

not 1 but 2 turbos to keep up

uhh...they put 2 on there to eliminate any turbo lag

[Ran]

Maintenance on a turbo BMW is freefor 5years/50,000 miles

Yeah, Lexus offers the free maintanance as well but, when you drive as much as I do (25-30K) a year in a new car, warranties don't tend to last very long.

In the end, I'd still be looking at the Lexus as I'd prefer having to maintaining a N/A Toyota motor as opposed to a turbo BMW one.

Note: If I was going to get a BMW, it would definitely be the new M Coupe on the Z4 platform.

[nbennettksu]

Hmmm, so it took twin turbos to reach the performance level of an NA and that is some kind of "accomplishment"???? What's going to happen when Lexus comes out with their own "turbo" version of the IS?????

then bmw will will put bigger turbos on there. They have kept the 335 engine somewhat restricted, for when things such as the turbo IS (which will probably never happen) come along.

Same concept that Honda/Acura did with the J seriese engine.

[Jaimecbr900]

then bmw will will put bigger turbos on there. They have kept the 335 engine somewhat restricted, for when things such as the turbo IS (which will probably never happen) come along.

Same concept that Honda/Acura did with the J seriese engine.

They won't put bigger turbos because of the engineering involved in having to do that.

Besides, the Lexus IS-F is going to be N/A and over 400 HP. Simply adding a bigger turbo(s) is not going to get them there.

Maintenance on a turbo BMW is freefor 5years/50,000 miles

What happens AFTER 50K? Trade it in? Sell it? Get a second mortgage on your house??? It's a sales gimmick. Truly reliable cars don't depend on warranties to sell cars.

uhh...they put 2 on there to eliminate any turbo lag

Really??? I didn't know that.....

Turbo lag or ceramic ball bearing turbos .....didn't they NEED it to keep up???? THAT was my point. Look at the results the previous year and compare to now. What's the big difference???? TWIN TURBOS.....get it?

[The Green Monster]

Hmmm, so it took twin turbos to reach the performance level of an NA and that is some kind of "accomplishment"???? What's going to happen when Lexus comes out with their own "turbo" version of the IS?????

That's exactly what I was thinking


BMW'll change to twin t88's lol

[Jaimecbr900]

That's exactly what I was thinking


BMW'll change to twin t88's lol

It looks like atleast one person got it.

Too bad it falls on deaf ears when it comes to BMW diehards.

[nbennettksu]

There should be a poll. Honestly, who on here cares about the ownership costs of these two vehicles as a purchasing factor?

of you can afford one, you can afford the other...