Mazdaspeed Miata or Honda S2000

[spacelion]

Forget the "who's faster" argument.

She's looking for a fun, fast roadster with relatively row running costs. Forget about tuning and what not. Just focus on the car itself. Seeing that the MSM will probably be cheaper and better on insurance...it seems like that's the best bet. She's driven one of those already and is leaning towards it.

That'd be the better way to go since the S2000 is more expensive with insurance. Personally if money weren't the problem, I'd take the Honda over the Mazda, but if it came down to spendings, I'd take the Mazda. I don't think she'll be too disappointed with either.

The S2000 isn't as bad as everyone thinks. It's been compared to an NSX too. Take a look at the whole package instead of the "straight line take offs" or the power. Like Citynights10 said, it wasn't made for drag racing. It's a spectacle of design for a car of it's class and hard to top in it's stock form. Do me a favor and watch the S2000 prototype at Nuerburgring with Gan-San driving it on the Type-R BMI. I don't think a MSM could drive like that. I'm not against Mazda at all, but I think when it comes down to stock forms, the S2000's got the MSM covered. Just my opinions though!!

[GSRteg®]

Honda!

[VooDooXII]

Honda!

You would...

[welery]

Forget the "who's faster" argument.

She's looking for a fun, fast roadster with relatively row running costs. Forget about tuning and what not. Just focus on the car itself. Seeing that the MSM will probably be cheaper and better on insurance...it seems like that's the best bet. She's driven one of those already and is leaning towards it.

Yeah... MSM should be the pick then

[compufreak21]

Sooooo.... For you S2K owners, i have a question.

How much HP can you make AT THE WHEELS with $1500.. and thats buying NEW parts from vendors.... no ebay/friend/private sales. When i say $2k, i mean $2k or LESS.

I'd Love to see a S2K get 55-60 rwhp for $1500 (cost of the parts to go from 150rwhp to 203rwhp was actually $1355 + shipping)

Easy. AEM EMS fuel management ($1200 new) K&N Intake filter and cover delete mod ($50) and Invidia Exhaust ($550) and a decent tune from the stock maps the ems comes with. The s2000 is very conservatively tuned from the factory and alot of power potential lies in simply tuning it.


Honestly i like both cars but im sure you can see which one i chose. I did many a test drive to choose the right car for me. I liked the mazda speed miata but felt that the handling was a bit better stock in the s2000. Also i have owned a miata (93) and it was terribly unreliable. Finally gave it away for like $800. I have had my s2000 for a while now and has roughly 85,000 miles and hasnt needed anything besides a battery and oil changes... very quick and responsive and i average 30mpg on the highway back and forth to work daily. I also test drove the porsche boxster ('02) and the mercedes slk230('00) and i loved the boxster and hated the mercedes. The mercedes felt loose in the steering and had terrible pickup. A great cruiser i guess? and the boxster handled great but just didnt feel as "Sporty" as the s2000. Handled good but not as good and was fast just not as peppy in the high rpms. I loved the miata and the s2000 but just felt the s2000 was a better fit. I do like that the miata was turbo and that almost made the selling point for me but i also had been told that top hp potential in that car was around 350-400. There are many s2k's on the road pushing in excess of 600+. Mainstream performance sells bolt on kits for the s2k for about $3500 that push the s2k to about 350rwhp.

[OneSlow5pt0]

y would u want more than 250hp in miata?

[compufreak21]

y would u want more than 250hp in miata?

Exactly...it keeps coming up about hp and difference in s2k and miata and how you can have Such and Such hp in the Miata for this much...There is really no comparison when it comes to modding. The s2k has been compared with the likes of the 350z, nsx, etc. and has potential of being a very high hp street car. The miata itself handles very well and is a great track and road course car but in all fairness cant compete with s2k once the 300hp level has been broken. Like you said. Why would you want a miata with more than 250hp. The answer is you wouldnt. My question is why wouldnt you want 350+ in the s2k? its an amazingly agile car that handles high horsepower very well. Obviously the miata may be a better choice for the girl for many reasons but in a car vs car matchup it comes down to opinion i guess. As far as insurance goes i really dont understand. My 18 yr old gf's car insurance on her own plan is like $50 a month. She got quoted on a 2002 Celica GTS Full coverage $70 per month. For a females coverage..the differnce between the two cars on insurance should be no more than $15 a month. I would say skip eating out once a month and get the honda! lol

[OneSlow5pt0]

a miata weighs 2,200 pounds stock,250hp is more than anuff for that car to tear other cars up

[compufreak21]

agreed.

[JITB]

Since when is a miata not agile, and unable to handle high horsepower?

[compufreak21]

I dont think they are agile but how many miatas have you seen with 500+ hp and compete with supras, 350zs, nsx.... And are daily driveable? Who knows maybe it is capable of that. Just not something i have seen much of.

[JITB]

I dont think they are agile but how many miatas have you seen with 500+ hp and compete with supras, 350zs, nsx.... And are daily driveable? Who knows maybe it is capable of that. Just not something i have seen much of.

its only because noone builds them that way. but it is very possible. The miata could easily be made into a street runner.

[OneSlow5pt0]

its only because noone builds them that way. but it is very possible. The miata could easily be made into a street runner.

13BT or dare i say 5.0

[compufreak21]

i guess you could do that but then your sacrificing the handling and weight ratio that makes the miata such a fun car to drive. Just seems to me that you need to choose what is important to you with a miata (power vs agility) whereas the s2k's stock motor can be pushed to 500 hp and beyond while still keeping its great weight ratio and agility. Upgrade to some decent suspension to handle the added power and thats it. Please correct me if im wrong. I would love the idea of a 13bt miata. Wish i would have known about that when i still had my old miata!

[spacelion]

13BT or dare i say 5.0

LOLOLZ d00d that'd be sick shit for sure.

Compufreak you got some good points!

[JITB]

i guess you could do that but then your sacrificing the handling and weight ratio that makes the miata such a fun car to drive. Just seems to me that you need to choose what is important to you with a miata (power vs agility) whereas the s2k's stock motor can be pushed to 500 hp and beyond while still keeping its great weight ratio and agility. Upgrade to some decent suspension to handle the added power and thats it. Please correct me if im wrong. I would love the idea of a 13bt miata. Wish i would have known about that when i still had my old miata!

correct me if im wrong miata folks, but last ive heard is that the 5.0 swap in a miata doesnt really hurt the weight distribution as much as u would think, neither does the 13b swap, and i do believe the 13b is lighter than the iron block in the 1.8 miata, and the B6 1.6. BUt the stock motor in the miata is very very well capable of handling boost, the Bp is a NA version of a turbo motor..with alittle weaker rods. The weak part of miatas are their ability to make power NA, bp motors dont make good power na at all, compared to a honda..

[OneSlow5pt0]

correct me if im wrong miata folks, but last ive heard is that the 5.0 swap in a miata doesnt really hurt the weight distribution as much as u would think, neither does the 13b swap, and i do believe the 13b is lighter than the iron block in the 1.8 miata, and the B6 1.6. BUt the stock motor in the miata is very very well capable of handling boost, the Bp is a NA version of a turbo motor..with alittle weaker rods. The weak part of miatas are their ability to make power NA, bp motors dont make good power na at all, compared to a honda..

yea,the 13b is lighter.....but yea,like u said the 1.8L loves boost

[Kamikaze]

There was one guy I saw that dropped a KLZE in a Miata. Sounded bad ass.

[allmotoronly]

go with the s2k. you cant beat honda as far as reliability and RESALE VALUE go!!!!!

[Deaf Pimp]

Hands-down, if you want a cheap track car that is cheap with modifications, then get a Miata. You can't beat the bang for the buck on that car. I've driven quite a few Miata's and they are definitely fun, but they don't have the thrill/sports car factor that the S2k provides. I feel like I'm driving a race car when I'm in the S2k especially with my T1R exhaust. There is nothing more entertaining and more exilerating than picking up shifts at 9,000 RPM's daily. Yes, S2k's are expensive to modify. If you have $3500 you can get 330hp to the wheels.

Oh BTW, to the person with the black Prelude in the sig. 2002+ were glass and 2001 and below were plastic back windows. Sorry, you got it mixed up.

[Doppelgänger]

On a stock BP block, i have seen upwards of 300hp. On built blocks 300-400+ rwhp. But at 275-300hp... you're running with cars with 150+ more hp no problem.

I saw one of my friends 1.6 Miata take a C5 Vette pretty easily... and he was only at 236 rwhp. A Miata can handle the higher power, but can the driver?

The reason i think you dont see many Miatas runnign with the bigger cars is mostly because of the miata image. Any of you who are OG Moreland Ave peeps will know the name Humphrey (sp?)........

[VooDooXII]

Weird...I just visited a friend who lives by Moreland Avenue, Friday night.

[compufreak21]

wow this seems like it would be a pretty fun project to do. Especially since you can get early nineties miatas for next to nothing now. Wouldnt mind picking one up myself once ive done a few things to the s2k.

[OneSlow5pt0]

yea,u can get NA for decent price...just go for the 1.8L though,

[osnap]

this dilemma happens to be my wallpaper.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7...paper12gi8.jpg

[Maniaç]

Just ask her which one she thinks is cute.. lol! girls could careless anything about a car, if they're cute they'll get it.

[VooDooXII]

Just ask her which one she thinks is cute.. lol! girls could careless anything about a car, if they're cute they'll get it.

This girl's actually into cars...that's why she's after an MSM, not just the "regular" Miata.

[Maniaç]

This girl's actually into cars...that's why she's after an MSM, not just the "regular" Miata.

She still hasn't decided? wtf, this thread is pretty old.

I think she should go with the MSM, why.. cause they already come boosted, its a nice handling car, looks ok. plus the S2k was made for men, not women. lol!

[Leadfoot_mf]

okay i am late to the party but........ i like the look of the s2k but that is where it stops.
everyone talks about the s2ks hp because there is no torque to speak of.

i have driven a s2k at the gap and all i can say is honda successfully removed every aspect of "feel" from the car. the steering is light and vague. the shifter is vague. the clutch feels like u are stepping in butter.

my biggest complaint about the car has got to be the digital dash fuck how i hate them.

i did like the engine noise. looks interior. but for the money the miata hands down.

i have a 94 miata with 120k on it got it with 70k when ever i drive the car i go to redline in every gear until i hit cruising speed. every single time. only thing on car to break is the slave cylinder. car has great feel is nimble just slow but that is part of the fun being able to floor it for 4 gears and never break the speed limit. at every light it is a dig race to 10 over the limit and the only one who knows u are racing is u.

i have not driven a msm but would really like to.

in the end the only choice that matters is the one you make and the car that makes you smile as u walk to get in it every single time that is the car that is right. i dont care what u drive or own.

btw both cars are equally cool because they are rwd. and what is considered to be the original sports car. so good luck and drive the piss out of it and have fun.

[OneSlow5pt0]

^^nice write up,i agree.. my 97 was pretty fun car,funner than my celica and RX-7...man im already ready to get a MR2-S to have little fun roadster

[sprix!]

i have driven a s2k at the gap and all i can say is honda successfully removed every aspect of "feel" from the car. the steering is light and vague. the shifter is vague. the clutch feels like u are stepping in butter.

Ok, I agree with the torgue thing. MSM has S2k beat in that department. But the comments above? That is simply not true. If nothing else, the S2000 has always received high marks for its transmission, clutch engagement and steering feel. I don't think that anyone could say that an S2000 handles and drives as poorly as you just stated it did and be taken seriously. You have to be the only person ever who has thought of these characteristics so negatively. I would even go so far as to say I doubt you have driven an S2000. Just because you like your Miata, and would like to see the OP's friend get an MSM, does not mean you have to put the S2000 down like that...
Both candidates are great cars- just the MSM is moddable for much less money and more immediate results. Hell, it's basically that FI has more of an advantage tha NA in some cases. This seems to be one of those cases...
And S2000 insurance is eating me alive. It has more to do with the fact that these cars are often the targets of theft, vandalism, and a boy racer "9K RPM" image than anything else. If you get an S2000, people like stealing all of the parts. Engines, seats, antennae, wheels, etc.
OP- hopefully your friend will take time out to drive both cars and make an informed decision. If she is going to test drive an S2000, the worst test drive she can have is with a new car. She needs to test a car that has been broken-in in order to get the real feel. I am pretty sure it is the same way with the MSM, isn't it?
DeafPimp- you beat me to that Glass window correction...

[Ch0psticks11]

i would personally go with the s2k. yes it's a little pricey but i think it's worth it. you can get a used one for a pretty decent price too. n/a is also more reliable than boost. and the s2k responds well to bolt-on mods

[OneSlow5pt0]

Ok, I agree with the torgue thing. MSM has S2k beat in that department. But the comments above? That is simply not true. If nothing else, the S2000 has always received high marks for its transmission, clutch engagement and steering feel. I don't think that anyone could say that an S2000 handles and drives as poorly as you just stated it did and be taken seriously. You have to be the only person ever who has thought of these characteristics so negatively. I would even go so far as to say I doubt you have driven an S2000. Just because you like your Miata, and would like to see the OP's friend get an MSM, does not mean you have to put the S2000 down like that...
Both candidates are great cars- just the MSM is moddable for much less money and more immediate results. Hell, it's basically that FI has more of an advantage tha NA in some cases. This seems to be one of those cases...
And S2000 insurance is eating me alive. It has more to do with the fact that these cars are often the targets of theft, vandalism, and a boy racer "9K RPM" image than anything else. If you get an S2000, people like stealing all of the parts. Engines, seats, antennae, wheels, etc.
OP- hopefully your friend will take time out to drive both cars and make an informed decision. If she is going to test drive an S2000, the worst test drive she can have is with a new car. She needs to test a car that has been broken-in in order to get the real feel. I am pretty sure it is the same way with the MSM, isn't it?
DeafPimp- you beat me to that Glass window correction...

i could do 11k in my old car,and insurance was the same as my celica

[sprix!]

i could do 11k in my old car,and insurance was the same as my celica

You took what I said out of context. Consider the statement as a whole instead of just that one clause.

[Doppelgänger]

i would personally go with the s2k. yes it's a little pricey but i think it's worth it.

Sure you would, look at your name. If Honda offered a polished turd , people would still buy it jsut because it has a H badge on it.

n/a is also more reliable than boost. and the s2k responds well to bolt-on mods

Thats a REALLY educated answer


I do agree with Tim on how the S2K feels. A sports car should not be all light, easy and 'buttery'. People who complain that the shifter is 'notchy' on the Miata need to be driving a Civic anyway. The S2K shifter can just about be shifted by blowing on it.... waaaaay too light.

[OneSlow5pt0]

Sure you would, look at your name. If Honda offered a polished turd , people would still buy it jsut because it has a H badge on it.




Thats a REALLY educated answer


I do agree with Tim on how the S2K feels. A sports car should not be all light, easy and 'buttery'. People who complain that the shifter is 'notchy' on the Miata need to be driving a Civic anyway. The S2K shifter can just about be shifted by blowing on it.... waaaaay too light.

i thought the stock miata shifter felt great,very short and easy

[compufreak21]

okay i am late to the party but........ i like the look of the s2k but that is where it stops.
everyone talks about the s2ks hp because there is no torque to speak of.

i have driven a s2k at the gap and all i can say is honda successfully removed every aspect of "feel" from the car. the steering is light and vague. the shifter is vague. the clutch feels like u are stepping in butter.

my biggest complaint about the car has got to be the digital dash fuck how i hate them.

i did like the engine noise. looks interior. but for the money the miata hands down.

i have a 94 miata with 120k on it got it with 70k when ever i drive the car i go to redline in every gear until i hit cruising speed. every single time. only thing on car to break is the slave cylinder. car has great feel is nimble just slow but that is part of the fun being able to floor it for 4 gears and never break the speed limit. at every light it is a dig race to 10 over the limit and the only one who knows u are racing is u.

i have not driven a msm but would really like to.

in the end the only choice that matters is the one you make and the car that makes you smile as u walk to get in it every single time that is the car that is right. i dont care what u drive or own.

btw both cars are equally cool because they are rwd. and what is considered to be the original sports car. so good luck and drive the piss out of it and have fun.

So slow that no one knows ur racing but you = fun?? Yea i guess that would make the s2000 the wrong car for you....

[Leadfoot_mf]

geez you people need to lighten up and realize that just because you own said car and like means you can never find fault with it. i drove my friends stock i repeat stock s2k i dont remember what tires where on the car crappy ones i would assume. the car was one of the first cars that came here what ever year that was i dont remember it was at least 5 years ago i know it had the small motor. now the cars would have been improved over time manufactures tend to do that.

dont get me wrong the s2k is the best car that honda makes. hell the stupid nsx has a transverse mounted v6 how gay is that please if u are going to go to the trouble to build the nsx mount the fucking motor the wright damn way and use a transaxle that really pisses me off about the nsx. oh and the stupid ass interior i rally hate the fact if u feel asleep in a nsx and wont you couldnt tell what honda you woke up in.

[VooDooXII]

Alright...let this die.

She's way into the MSM, and the fact that insurance is a bit lower for it will just add to that.

Enough, please...this thread is three months old.

[JITB]

msm - 1

s2k - 0