that all makes sense, i'm just trying to isolate is the increase in spool any different if the ignition timing isn't advanced.

but i guess it's kind of relative...if you're running gasoline at it's tuned threshold of maximum efficiency, then operate e85 at the same level as gasoline, you're less than the capabilities of e85. therefore if it were apples and apples you'd have to run e85 at it's maximum threshold of efficiency, which means advancing ignition angle etc etc...

that'd really be the only way to get a fair comparison...otherwise it's like racing a bone stock car vs a race car tuned to the T, if both cars were tuned to the T the winner would be obvious.

i guess i just answered my own question lol

Dave