Thoughts on E85

[crashtke]

Same injectors I am planning on. Either that or make a custom fuel rail and do the Ford OEM 160 lb injectors. I have been running E85 for around 20k miles I guess and love it. I ran it in the Subaru when it was my daily driver. I only found fuel usage to increase around 35% or maybe a little less. But, I was also able to lean things out quite a bit more under WOT.

[SPOOLIN]

I tought about running E85, but from what i understand is you can get diffrent blends. And that will cause a motor roo run lean and blow. Not sure if its true or not, Ill just stick to q16.

yes but if you tune on e85 and then get some e70 by accident, you will run rich due to the more gasoline. Example: If you are tuned for E85 and you switch back to gas you have to lean it out 30%, if you don't it will be a pig.

[NevrNufTorq]

yes but if you tune on e85 and then get some e70 by accident, you will run rich due to the more gasoline. Example: If you are tuned for E85 and you switch back to gas you have to lean it out 30%, if you don't it will be a pig.

simple rule for power 'have wideband and watch it'....only insurance you need other than actually lifting your foot it it does go lean

[crashtke]

simple rule for power 'have wideband and watch it'....only insurance you need other than actually lifting your foot it it does go lean

Thank you!

[DirtyMechanic]

e85.....the next best thing since sliced bread......

seriously though...once the fuel system can handle it...it's cheap race gas...and will spool the turbo faster....

cons..just make sure you know what mixture's in your gas tank....

pro's vs cons.....sounds like a viable alternative imo

so twy's colt is up and running?

Dave

the turbo only spools faster because with E85 or race gas. you can add more timing. and with that timing you get your quicker spool.

[SPOOLIN]

the turbo only spools faster because with E85 or race gas. you can add more timing. and with that timing you get your quicker spool.

You cant compare Alcohol vs Gasoline in that manner. Everything is cooler in general which means it burns better and make more power

[DirtyMechanic]

You cant compare Alcohol vs Gasoline in that manner. Everything is cooler in general which means it burns better and make more power

im comparing alcohol to gas as to how it burns. but you do add timing with race gas because of the much higher octance. and with E85 you can add timing just the same. and the TIMING is where you get the quicker spool.

[SPOOLIN]

ive increased timing a shitload on race gas in the past and it never really increases spool it does however increase power production until you reach the tipping point.

[Kason23]

In tests on my setup there were really only one thing that helped on spool. And that was going leaner during it. I messed with the timing and really got no difference in doing so. I run a assload of timing on 93 octane and 100% meth. I rather run meth because race gas is just to much to run ALL the time on a daily driver. If we did have E-85 around here I would jump all over it. That shit is insane imo.

So now I run 12.5-13.0 on spoolup but drops to around 11.5 on 100% meth and 27psi of boost and 28-30* of timing. Or should I say I WAS doing so. Things are in the works since I put the new AGP delta billet wheel turbo on the car.

[Z U L8R]

this is what i've noticed many times on the dyno. as far as adding timing, typical scenario:

i do a dyno pull with a car and it makes blah power and 8psi of boost, i check the base timing and it's a tad retarded, when i advance the timing and do another pull on the dyno it'll drop down to 7psi, yet make more power. i know it's because it's closer to MBT, i'm just sayin that's what i see.

i advance timing, boost drops. i haven't payed particular attention to if it made boost sooner, just saying that's what i see a lot.

pretty much like clarke said everything ive seen says you're going have to flow around 30-35% more fuel, and gas mileage will decrease a little. also ive herd e85 expands alot more than regular gas when it is expelled as exhaust gasses. if that theory is true it might help quicken your spool.

this may be where i got too naive.... throwing out adding timing since it has higher octane, put that aside, all things the same, the only difference in gasoline at stoich vs e85 at stoich...is this statement true or false?

when e85 is combusted at stoich it will create more exaust pressure than 93 octane pump gas combusted at stoich? true or false?

what are the EGT differences from e85 vs gas both at stoich or the same lambda ratio?



Dave

[Z U L8R]

thought this was a little interesting but still didn't answer the question
http://www.raceone85.com/

[crashtke]

Cooler combustion temp at all levels stoich or other (around 200*F cooler) and it also has a higher volume of gaseous expansion and a quicker flame front. I ran mine right at .81-.82 lambda I think it was at peak power...equates to 12.0 on the wideband. (Yes I leave it in gasoline mode and just look at the gasoline AFR I want to hit...easier for me in that manner). That is on my summer tune. That way if it richens up if a station goes to a different blend, I am ok and it is not STUPID rich, just a bit more and I can switch to winter blend tune.

[SPOOLIN]

this is what i've noticed many times on the dyno. as far as adding timing, typical scenario:

i do a dyno pull with a car and it makes blah power and 8psi of boost, i check the base timing and it's a tad retarded, when i advance the timing and do another pull on the dyno it'll drop down to 7psi, yet make more power. i know it's because it's closer to MBT, i'm just sayin that's what i see.

i advance timing, boost drops. i haven't payed particular attention to if it made boost sooner, just saying that's what i see a lot.






Dave

are you talking about cam timing ?

[Z U L8R]

thanks crash, so what you're essentially saying, and correct me if i'm wrong....

bottom line it's a more powerful explosion at the same relative lambda as gas, therefore pushing the top of the piston down with more force vs regular gasoline (more torque), even at the same fixed mechanical and ignition timing it will explode with more potency resulting in more power and better spool in all cases where the only difference is the fuel (e85 or gas). yes?

spoolin: adjusting ignition timing (cam angle sensor). correcting the base timing.

Dave

[crashtke]

No, just there is more volume to the exhaust flow. The flame front is a bit quicker than gas, so the timing between it and race gas will be similar. The burn is cooler though. So with a cooler charge AND higher octane, you are able to push it further without detonation. It keeps the combustion chamber a bit cooler resulting in less chance of the engine detonating when you push the timing and the boost (if a forced induction motor) further than you do with gas. I do believe that the higher exhaust volume does help spool a turbo a bit faster though. I noticed a bit faster spool at similar timing and actually had to reduce wastegate duty cycles to avoid going past the target boost point.

[Z U L8R]

that all makes sense, i'm just trying to isolate is the increase in spool any different if the ignition timing isn't advanced.

but i guess it's kind of relative...if you're running gasoline at it's tuned threshold of maximum efficiency, then operate e85 at the same level as gasoline, you're less than the capabilities of e85. therefore if it were apples and apples you'd have to run e85 at it's maximum threshold of efficiency, which means advancing ignition angle etc etc...

that'd really be the only way to get a fair comparison...otherwise it's like racing a bone stock car vs a race car tuned to the T, if both cars were tuned to the T the winner would be obvious.

i guess i just answered my own question lol

Dave

[slowdsm]

so twy's colt is up and running?

Dave

Yes he did! He is going to go back and make a few adjustments... and spray the nitrous. I am sure he will be well over 600whp! haha [/QUOTE]


thanks for the mention turbomirage. turn out the socks in the tank was clogged up from trash in the tank. everything is running good now. i am looking forward to making 600hp+.

e85 is the way. this stuff makes a car runs so smooth and clean. i love coming out of my car and not smelling like gas. i definitely love not paying $9.50 for c16.