Thoughts on E85

[TIGERJC]

I have been reading a lot threads on evom of ppl running e85 and wonder is this the way to go when it comes to getting the most performance without running race gas? My evo already has a meth kit on it (not in use) and I wondering would it be safer and cheaper to run E85 than meth/pump? I have read a few threads that say E85 can differ from pump to pump and would E85 do well in a daily driver

[bdydrpdmazda]

I am very curious aout e85 also. I hear its made life in mexico more expensive because of the amount of corn based foods they consume. i guess E85 has made the price of corn go through the roof.

[SPOOLIN]

cheaper yes, cheaper to inject, no.

Im switching to it right now in my race car only, and for my power, I have to get the fuel system of a damn semi truck to do it. Of course its fine in a daily, but youll only get about 20mpg if you are used to 30 mpg. Whatever setup you have now, you have to flow 1.5x times the capacity to support it at the same power level.

[NevrNufTorq]

^^^what he said

if you have the fuel system already not a bad way to save money since you're using premium the cost would work out, a lil saving on e85 with a lil less mpg for more expensive prem and better gas mpg. only thing you have to watch is most stations switch to a lower e80 or something in the winter and that wont work if you're not tuned for it, like putting 87 on a 93 tune. it'll run fine, but boosting it could go boom.

[Clark94T]

Best thing I've ever done with my supra. Just drove all the way to Miami and back on E85. I love this stuff.

I had to give it 33% more fuel. Change my paper 10micron aeromotive filter out to a 40micron stainless mesh.

I've run 30lbs of boost on an 88mm turbo on the street. I won't go any higher than that.

I'll still run racegas at the track, but eventually will switch that out to e98.

If you have enough fuel pump, injector, and tuner GO FOR IT!!

[TIGERJC]

thanks for the input. Nice to know that you can travel and be able to refill on e85 to complete your trip. I have to add another fuel pump but will add another one when I build the bottom. Would it be better to run a dual fuel rail so I can take advantage of the 1000cc I already had and just add 550cc to it or just run 1200cc and up injectors?

[SPOOLIN]

thanks for the input. Nice to know that you can travel and be able to refill on e85 to complete your trip. I have to add another fuel pump but will add another one when I build the bottom. Would it be better to run a dual fuel rail so I can take advantage of the 1000cc I already had and just add 550cc to it or just run 1200cc and up injectors?

it depends on what power you want, thats the determining factor.

e85 from the pump will support over 1000hp, atleast on a 4 banger it will i know that much. in the winter they actually can sell as low as E70(Class 3 minimum 70% eth) in our state so ask or call before you pump!

Clark or big Dave, do you know where to get a barrel of E98 or E85?

[NevrNufTorq]

it depends on what power you want, thats the determining factor.

e85 from the pump will support over 1000hp, atleast on a 4 banger it will i know that much. in the winter they actually can sell as low as E70(Class 3 minimum 70% eth) in our state so ask or call before you pump!

Clark or big Dave, do you know where to get a barrel of E98 or E85?

i just take a old c16 can and fill it up when i need it

[SPOOLIN]

i just take a old c16 can and fill it up when i need it

well yeah i can go to bremen to get e85, but im wanting to know where i can get a barrel of e98, and make my own blend.

That way i KNOW how much actual eth is in the blend.

[NevrNufTorq]

well yeah i can go to bremen to get e85, but im wanting to know where i can get a barrel of e98, and make my own blend.

That way i KNOW how much actual eth is in the blend.

gotcha, i can check with our guy in cartersville but he hasnt carried any ethanol before but i can see if he can get it

[Echonova]

Make sure you use hard-lines or Ethanol compatible fuel line hose. Ethanol is also a terrific corrosive and will eat through typical hoses over time.

[SPOOLIN]

Make sure you use hard-lines or Ethanol compatible fuel line hose. Ethanol is also a terrific corrosive and will eat through typical hoses over time.

this has been pretty much been busted.

Methanol does this, but ethanol doesn't, it can affect certain pumps though, a pump that is compatible with meth is best.

[Echonova]

this has been pretty much been busted.

Uh... That's news to me.

[B18c1Turboed]

Portcity in sugarhill sells e85 in a barrel. They might sell E98,not sure tough.

[SPOOLIN]

dont bother calling them i just did.

[Black R]

there's so many e85 stations now in GA.

idk about Rome, but I could daily drive on e85 if I wanted to.

I'd prefer to run an 87 octane tune for daily, and then switch to the e85 tune for when I fill er up and have some fun.

[SPOOLIN]

haha, i gotta drive 40 mins to get it. not bad. not gonna daily on it.

Most if not all of the people ive talked to who actually use it have reported no issues with fuel lines breaking down. When in doubt just get teflon coated lines...much easier to work with and not really more expensive.

[SPOOLIN]

yes YES do it DO IT

[slostang]

pretty much like clarke said everything ive seen says you're going have to flow around 30-35% more fuel, and gas mileage will decrease a little. also ive herd e85 expands alot more than regular gas when it is expelled as exhaust gasses. if that theory is true it might help quicken your spool.

[Z U L8R]

this is what i've noticed many times on the dyno. as far as adding timing, typical scenario:

i do a dyno pull with a car and it makes blah power and 8psi of boost, i check the base timing and it's a tad retarded, when i advance the timing and do another pull on the dyno it'll drop down to 7psi, yet make more power. i know it's because it's closer to MBT, i'm just sayin that's what i see.

i advance timing, boost drops. i haven't payed particular attention to if it made boost sooner, just saying that's what i see a lot.

pretty much like clarke said everything ive seen says you're going have to flow around 30-35% more fuel, and gas mileage will decrease a little. also ive herd e85 expands alot more than regular gas when it is expelled as exhaust gasses. if that theory is true it might help quicken your spool.

this may be where i got too naive.... throwing out adding timing since it has higher octane, put that aside, all things the same, the only difference in gasoline at stoich vs e85 at stoich...is this statement true or false?

when e85 is combusted at stoich it will create more exaust pressure than 93 octane pump gas combusted at stoich? true or false?

what are the EGT differences from e85 vs gas both at stoich or the same lambda ratio?



Dave

[SPOOLIN]

this is what i've noticed many times on the dyno. as far as adding timing, typical scenario:

i do a dyno pull with a car and it makes blah power and 8psi of boost, i check the base timing and it's a tad retarded, when i advance the timing and do another pull on the dyno it'll drop down to 7psi, yet make more power. i know it's because it's closer to MBT, i'm just sayin that's what i see.

i advance timing, boost drops. i haven't payed particular attention to if it made boost sooner, just saying that's what i see a lot.






Dave

are you talking about cam timing ?

[SPOOLIN]

yes testing has proved "quicker" spool.

[Z U L8R]

just figured i'd add some useful info from Tuner Badass Greg Banish since I was just reading this portion of a book of his the other day. I'm Paraphrasing but,

basically stoich on pump gas is 14.68 parts air to 1 part fuel. stoich for pure ethonal (which is pretty hard to find) is 9:1 with an octane rating of 129 RON (which is the higher of the two ratings, MON is the other one)

pure ethonal is typically a "research" fuel and thus is typically priced as one.

e85 is typically 85% ethonal and 15% gasoline. adding the 15% gasoline to the mixture greatly helps cold temperature evaporation rates and makes storage less of a concern for water absorbtion.

the blend between ethonol and gasoline results in a stoich balance of a 9.85:1 mass ratio instead of 14.68:1 like gasoline.

therefore a naturally aspirated engine looking to run at lambda ~ .86 x 14.68 (gasoline) would be at a 12.6:1 air fuel ratio

however using ethonal would be .86 x 9.85 (e85) = 8.47:1 air fuel ratio.

this is when lambda = 1.00 = stoich (for whatever fuel you're using) is easier to work with instead of an air fuel ratio you're not used to seeing.

e85 has an octane rating of ~ 105 (R+M)/2

also more useful info from mr greg says F.A.S.T. XFI standalone have the ability to monitor the gm fuel composition (part #12570260) when connected to the auxiliary discrete input. This means a single tune file can be used with premium pump gas as well as a summer blend of e85.

the reason the gas stations switch to e70 in teh winter is because that extra 30% gasoline mixture aids in cold starts as mentioned earlier.

anyways, long story short, whatever fueling you need for your current horsepower set up, basically double it since you're gonna need almost twice the flow volume to get the same air fuel ratio as you would with gasoline.

hope that helps,

one day matt the blue 510 will be alongside your hatch at the drag strip so you besta bee running ~7.5:1 air fuels in that thing, i wanna see -20 fuel lines and 2 x a1000's pumping that shit



Dave

[SPOOLIN]

not double, 1.5 times.

Methanol is the Double capacity fluid. its stoich in the 7's and people tune for 5's.

[Z U L8R]

not double, 1.5 times.

Methanol is the Double capacity fluid. its stoich in the 7's and people tune for 5's.

well yeah methanol stoich is 6.47:1

i'll show you 1.5 times the power to weight ratio in the 510 hahahahha

jk your hatch prolly weighs less than the 510

i didn't give any thought to the spool being improved tho...that's pretty bad ass...

i'm gonna put propane on the 510 @_@ that shit don't even have an octane rating ppfffft @ e85 lol

i'm bench racin the blue unicorn, then i'll tell josh green that i'll z u later

Dave

[SPOOLIN]

LOL josh just got back in the game besides helping me with his own little turbo toy.

PROPANE, is that exhaust gonna smell like a FART>?

[Z U L8R]

that's only if i run the propane methane mix ya kno wha sayin lol

before you change turbo's again lemme see before and after dyno's at the same psi, i'm curious to see the spool difference. you'll be done before me since i still got more fab work and a motor to fully deck out with some non existant cash flow till i get my settlement......ya kno wha sayin

ADVERTISE THAT! @ my poor sig being molested

i haven't seen you or josh in forever and congrats on the 10's man

tigerjc i still have your power inverter cigerette lighter to power outlet thingy majingy since that one day you rode in the Z 2 or 3 years ago........it's still in my tool box...that's about the only thing other people don't lose from inside my toolbox if....ya kno wha sayin!

anyways.....if my exaust smells like fart it's ok......only the slower cars will be the one's smellin it

then fuck Z U L8R, i'll change my license plate to TAKAWIF......

Dave

[TIGERJC]

that's only if i run the propane methane mix ya kno wha sayin lol

before you change turbo's again lemme see before and after dyno's at the same psi, i'm curious to see the spool difference. you'll be done before me since i still got more fab work and a motor to fully deck out with some non existant cash flow till i get my settlement......ya kno wha sayin

ADVERTISE THAT! @ my poor sig being molested

i haven't seen you or josh in forever and congrats on the 10's man

tigerjc i still have your power inverter cigerette lighter to power outlet thingy majingy since that one day you rode in the Z 2 or 3 years ago........it's still in my tool box...that's about the only thing other people don't lose from inside my toolbox if....ya kno wha sayin!

anyways.....if my exaust smells like fart it's ok......only the slower cars will be the one's smellin it

then fuck Z U L8R, i'll change my license plate to TAKAWIF......

Dave

Holy shit I forgot about that, just let me know know what meet you will be at next year and I will grab it from you

[X-Runner]

You can't mix E85 and 2 stroke oil can you? I believe the E85 won't mix well and/or separate from the oil.

[turbomirage]

I use E85 in my turbo Mirage... I will never run regular pump gas again. It is night and day when compared to regular pump gas. It is amazing and will lay down some serious power. My friend has a built 4G63 Colt... he has custom 11:1 Wiseco pistons in it, with a BB T3 GT35R. At 20 psi, he made 533whp and 385ft/lb - all with ZERO KNOCK, as read on his AEM EMS. He could of gone farther with his 1000cc's, but his fuel pump wasn't allowing it. I made 435whp, 406ft/lb with E85 using only 780cc's, and I will be going back soon to get 500whp with it. E85 FTW!!!

[cjhutch]

I wasn't a fan of the stuff before, but a lot of the Saab tuners are making E85 tunes now because the cars in Europe get the BioPower system. With nothing more than a slightly larger compressor wheel (18t), injectors, and 3" downpipe there is one tune out now that makes 320hp/350 ft. lbs. on E85 and that's a very conservative tune. That's on a 2.0 turbo that makes 210hp/220 ft. lbs. stock. I'm really considering going this route with my car if I decide to keep it.

[Z U L8R]

e85.....the next best thing since sliced bread......

seriously though...once the fuel system can handle it...it's cheap race gas...and will spool the turbo faster....

cons..just make sure you know what mixture's in your gas tank....

pro's vs cons.....sounds like a viable alternative imo

so twy's colt is up and running?

Dave

[turbomirage]

so twy's colt is up and running?

Dave[/quote]

Yes he did! He is going to go back and make a few adjustments... and spray the nitrous. I am sure he will be well over 600whp! haha

[slowdsm]

so twy's colt is up and running?

Dave

Yes he did! He is going to go back and make a few adjustments... and spray the nitrous. I am sure he will be well over 600whp! haha [/QUOTE]


thanks for the mention turbomirage. turn out the socks in the tank was clogged up from trash in the tank. everything is running good now. i am looking forward to making 600hp+.

e85 is the way. this stuff makes a car runs so smooth and clean. i love coming out of my car and not smelling like gas. i definitely love not paying $9.50 for c16.

[DirtyMechanic]

e85.....the next best thing since sliced bread......

seriously though...once the fuel system can handle it...it's cheap race gas...and will spool the turbo faster....

cons..just make sure you know what mixture's in your gas tank....

pro's vs cons.....sounds like a viable alternative imo

so twy's colt is up and running?

Dave

the turbo only spools faster because with E85 or race gas. you can add more timing. and with that timing you get your quicker spool.

[SPOOLIN]

the turbo only spools faster because with E85 or race gas. you can add more timing. and with that timing you get your quicker spool.

You cant compare Alcohol vs Gasoline in that manner. Everything is cooler in general which means it burns better and make more power

[DirtyMechanic]

You cant compare Alcohol vs Gasoline in that manner. Everything is cooler in general which means it burns better and make more power

im comparing alcohol to gas as to how it burns. but you do add timing with race gas because of the much higher octance. and with E85 you can add timing just the same. and the TIMING is where you get the quicker spool.

[B18c1Turboed]

I tought about running E85, but from what i understand is you can get diffrent blends. And that will cause a motor roo run lean and blow. Not sure if its true or not, Ill just stick to q16.

[SPOOLIN]

I tought about running E85, but from what i understand is you can get diffrent blends. And that will cause a motor roo run lean and blow. Not sure if its true or not, Ill just stick to q16.

You gotta ask the station you get it from what class they have in the tanks at that time!

[SPOOLIN]

I tought about running E85, but from what i understand is you can get diffrent blends. And that will cause a motor roo run lean and blow. Not sure if its true or not, Ill just stick to q16.

yes but if you tune on e85 and then get some e70 by accident, you will run rich due to the more gasoline. Example: If you are tuned for E85 and you switch back to gas you have to lean it out 30%, if you don't it will be a pig.