Requirements for Heaven?

[GTScoob]

I dont claim to be Christian by any means but I think I live a fairly moral and good life.

Now there are dozens of religions in this world, each with their own deities and beliefs on the afterlife. I've always believed that getting to heaven is more a matter of living a good life, not lying/stealing/cheating, instead of aligning yourself with a certain God and set of beliefs.

How do other religions feel about this viewpoint? I'm a big believer in karma and how it will affect the afterlife (if there is one).

[Jaimecbr900]

Where did you get your idea of heaven from? Heaven is a religious idea. How did you arrive at your personal belief?

[4dmin]

Where did you get your idea of heaven from? Heaven is a religious idea. How did you arrive at your personal belief?

heaven isn't a religious ideas as it was a place for the afterlife.... you have to remember the term heaven is older then christianity itself. so its very easy for one to have an idea of an afterlife in heaven w/o being chrsitan.

i understand exactly where your coming from. i by no means claim anything but i do believe i live a more moral life than others of faith that i know.

[GTScoob]

Where did you get your idea of heaven from? Heaven is a religious idea. How did you arrive at your personal belief?

I was raised Christian and went to church every weekend until I turned 11 or 12.

I arrived at this belief because its common ground with many religions (Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, etc). I see religion more as guidelines to live your life by but I havent found one that I truly believe so far.

[Jaimecbr900]

I was raised Christian and went to church every weekend until I turned 11 or 12.

I arrived at this belief because its common ground with many religions (Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, etc). I see religion more as guidelines to live your life by but I havent found one that I truly believe so far.

I understand totally. I was raised Catholic all my life until I was grown. Just about my entire family, except for my Jehova's witness Grandmother and an aunt and uncle that were Pentecostal, is Catholic. I found my own Church, although it's not too far left or right of the Catholic idealogy. I too felt the same things most people feel about the Catholic church for myself. That's why I looked until I found one that fit me and my family and we are comfortable attending.

One question though, it's obvious that you have read atleast some of your Bible at one point or another, right? What does your Bible say it takes to get into Heaven?

[Jaimecbr900]

i understand exactly where your coming from. i by no means claim anything but i do believe i live a more moral life than others of faith that i know.

And that is probably true, but let me ask you a question then (just to keep the debate going ):

IF you don't believe in God; IF you don't believe in Heaven; Why not just act like a total heathen and do exactly whatever you like and don't worry about what's going to happen later? Is it some kind of built-in gyroscope that keeps you the majority of the time grounded and atleast trying to do the right things?

This is just going towards the same lines of what I'm always saying: Isn't believing in God the surest bet out there? IF there is "no God", then no harm no foul, right? IF there is, then you will be glad you chose to believe. What is the downside then?

[4dmin]

And that is probably true, but let me ask you a question then (just to keep the debate going ):

IF you don't believe in God; IF you don't believe in Heaven; Why not just act like a total heathen and do exactly whatever you like and don't worry about what's going to happen later? Is it some kind of built-in gyroscope that keeps you the majority of the time grounded and atleast trying to do the right things?

This is just going towards the same lines of what I'm always saying: Isn't believing in God the surest bet out there? IF there is "no God", then no harm no foul, right? IF there is, then you will be glad you chose to believe. What is the downside then?

i've stated many times "no gods no masters, choose your heaven". i read that a long time ago and i completely agree. you hold the power in your hands to do what you want but you have a understanding of what is right/wrong. influenced by what is socially acceptable.

you are made to feel that killing someone is wrong. could i walk right up and shoot someone in the face. yes. will i. no. why? b/c i've designed an image in my mind of the things that are right/wrong. this has nothing to do w/ faith but personal choice. i know if in life the wronged will reedem revenge on the wrong doers, in either physical/mental state. if i kill someone i will either go to jail and/or feel the guilt of taking ones life. cause/effect is the only thing that keeps non believers at bay w/ moral judgements.

[C22H19N3O4]

A FICO score of 750 or above gets you into heaven.

IF you don't believe in God; IF you don't believe in Heaven; Why not just act like a total heathen and do exactly whatever you like and don't worry about what's going to happen later? Is it some kind of built-in gyroscope that keeps you the majority of the time grounded and atleast trying to do the right things?

Are you implying that morality is solely inherent to God and/or religion?

[Jaimecbr900]

A FICO score of 750 or above gets you into heaven.

And a good rate on your loan too.

Are you implying that morality is solely inherent to God and/or religion?

I didn't imply anything. I asked a question noone has answered yet.

Why if there is nothing holding us accountable do people act the way they do? IF there is NO God, how does someone believe in "heaven"? Where did their idea of what heaven is or isn't come from if heaven is a place reserved for people that believe in God? It seems like an oxymoron to me.

You can't be both. I've seen people here profess themselves as athiest, but still believe and more importantly follow the ten commandments. How's that work? How if we're a product of our environment do people from the same environment think totally different?

[Hulud]

Why if there is nothing holding us accountable do people act the way they do?

cmon jaime you know that belief in religion does not correlate with morals

IF there is NO God, how does someone believe in "heaven"? Where did their idea of what heaven is or isn't come from if heaven is a place reserved for people that believe in God? It seems like an oxymoron to me.

dunno, maybe his beliefs are correct? just a thought

You can't be both.

cause your god said so? no one knows for sure with 100% certainty what you have to do to reach this place you all believe in

I've seen people here profess themselves as athiest, but still believe and more importantly follow the ten commandments. How's that work? How if we're a product of our environment do people from the same environment think totally different?

i dont know how they could believe in ALL parts of the 10 commandments, you should ask them

[Jaimecbr900]

cmon jaime you know that belief in religion does not correlate with morals

Both you and pharm teg are trying to twist it around and I'm not going to let you.

Why don't either one of you just answer the simple question? I am asking WHY or WHAT keeps people who DON'T believe in any GOD from merely doing anything and everything they see fit since THEY believe there is NO GOD to hold them accountable for those bad choices LATER???? It's a simple enough question. Answer that and I'll explain how it correlates to religion.

dunno, maybe his beliefs are correct? just a thought

Well, again, answer the question and we can see IF he/she is.

cause your god said so? no one knows for sure with 100% certainty what you have to do to reach this place you all believe in

Show me where an Atheist gets their information about THEIR idea of "heaven" from. THAT is the question AGAIN being avoided. THAT is what I mean by "both ways". How can you say on one hand that GOD does NOT exist and then say you believe in "heaven"? How do those two correlate? THAT is my question. It's not at all about what I or MY "God" thinks. I'm asking HOW a person can be BOTH and Atheist AND a believer in "heaven"?

i dont know how they could believe in ALL parts of the 10 commandments, you should ask them

I have and it has not been answered yet.

[4dmin]

Show me where an Atheist gets their information about THEIR idea of "heaven" from. THAT is the question AGAIN being avoided. THAT is what I mean by "both ways". How can you say on one hand that GOD does NOT exist and then say you believe in "heaven"? How do those two correlate? THAT is my question. It's not at all about what I or MY "God" thinks. I'm asking HOW a person can be BOTH and Atheist AND a believer in "heaven"?

i answered that question already please read previous post.

[Jaimecbr900]

i answered that question already please read previous post.

No, all you said was that the "idea" of an after life was old. "Heaven" is different from re-incarnation although both occur IN the "after life".

What other "religion" believes in a heaven?

[Hulud]

Both you and pharm teg are trying to twist it around and I'm not going to let you.

im not twisting anything around, thats what you said

Why don't either one of you just answer the simple question? I am asking WHY or WHAT keeps people who DON'T believe in any GOD from merely doing anything and everything they see fit since THEY believe there is NO GOD to hold them accountable for those bad choices LATER????

theres the fear i have been talking about

It's a simple enough question. Answer that and I'll explain how it correlates to religion.

because i have morals, is that good?
i dont fear if theirs a god out there judging me because im a good person i do what i feel is right to not hurt anyone and to treat everyone with respect, unless they have not done the same.

Show me where an Atheist gets their information about THEIR idea of "heaven" from. THAT is the question AGAIN being avoided. THAT is what I mean by "both ways". How can you say on one hand that GOD does NOT exist and then say you believe in "heaven"? How do those two correlate? THAT is my question. It's not at all about what I or MY "God" thinks. I'm asking HOW a person can be BOTH and Atheist AND a believer in "heaven"?

i dont know, im just throwing ideas out there

I have and it has not been answered yet.

jackasses, lets kick their ass lol

[{X}Echo419]

"comence question dodging"

[Jaimecbr900]

im not twisting anything around, thats what you said

Yall were both angling to try and say that morality does not have anything to do with religion.

theres the fear i have been talking about

Does your "fear" of facing a judge keep you from killing someone?

It's not always about "fear" that keeps people in a straight line. It may just be simple accountability and not necessarily "fear".

because i have morals, is that good?
i dont fear if theirs a god out there judging me because im a good person i do what i feel is right to not hurt anyone and to treat everyone with respect, unless they have not done the same.

That's exactly my question: Where did those morals come from? Upbringing? Nature vs Nurture? Environment? Some built in gyroscope? Where? I am asking WHERE does the morality of an Atheist come from since morality is built on an individual belief system? Where does an Atheist draw their line in the sand at? IF Christians are supposed to use the Bible as a guide to their morality, where or what do Atheists use to guide themselves since they believe they don't have to be accountable to any supreme being?

[Hulud]

Yall were both angling to try and say that morality does not have anything to do with religion.

thats not what i was saying at all, what i was saying is that they dont neccesarily go hand in hand. ie you dont have to believe in a religion to have good morals

Does your "fear" of facing a judge keep you from killing someone?

It's not always about "fear" that keeps people in a straight line. It may just be simple accountability and not necessarily "fear".

no, it does not. im sorry but i wouldnt kill another person, unless i felt justified, and at that point i would not fear anything

That's exactly my question: Where did those morals come from? Upbringing? Nature vs Nurture? Environment? Some built in gyroscope? Where?

my morals come from the fact that i dont see a need to treat someone else differently because they may have different views. and i dont feel the need to unnesessarily hurt someone, mentally of physically.

I am asking WHERE does the morality of an Atheist come from since morality is built on an individual belief system? Where does an Atheist draw their line in the sand at? IF Christians are supposed to use the Bible as a guide to their morality, where or what do Atheists use to guide themselves since they believe they don't have to be accountable to any supreme being?

i am trying to tell you that i cant answer for athiests

[{X}Echo419]

Yall were both angling to try and say that morality does not have anything to do with religion.




Does your "fear" of facing a judge keep you from killing someone?

It's not always about "fear" that keeps people in a straight line. It may just be simple accountability and not necessarily "fear".





That's exactly my question: Where did those morals come from? Upbringing? Nature vs Nurture? Environment? Some built in gyroscope? Where? I am asking WHERE does the morality of an Atheist come from since morality is built on an individual belief system? Where does an Atheist draw their line in the sand at? IF Christians are supposed to use the Bible as a guide to their morality, where or what do Atheists use to guide themselves since they believe they don't have to be accountable to any supreme being?

it's not like someine woke up 1 day and said, "it's ok to do this but not to do that."
unless you lead your life by Hammurabi's Code(sp) your "morals" or our laws came from "religon"

[4dmin]

No, all you said was that the "idea" of an after life was old. "Heaven" is different from re-incarnation although both occur IN the "after life".

What other "religion" believes in a heaven?

no Heaven is nothing more then an idea, so its its not different. and as i stated Heaven isn't a christian idea it is far older the Greeks/Romans/Eygptians long before christians believed in heaven.

enviroment dictates everything. if you grew up in a bubble you would have alot of questions and no answers.... you obviously would not know Jesus from the Devil was

Lincoln echo 7 your going to the island!

I am asking WHERE does the morality of an Atheist come from since morality is built on an individual belief system? Where does an Atheist draw their line in the sand at? IF Christians are supposed to use the Bible as a guide to their morality, where or what do Atheists use to guide themselves since they believe they don't have to be accountable to any supreme being?

i already answered this too jaime,... people build their morality on enviroment alone. your racist your teach your children to do the same. society deems certain acts as wrong so people of learn these morals and apply them as they see fit.

[Hulud]

it's not like someine woke up 1 day and said, "it's ok to do this but not to do that."
unless you lead your life by Hammurabi's Code(sp) your "morals" or our laws came from "religon"

so what your saying is that back before organized religion it was OK to kill?

[{X}Echo419]

no Heaven is nothing more then an idea, so its its not different. and as i stated Heaven isn't a christian idea it is far older the Greeks/Romans/Eygptians long before christians believed in heaven.

enviroment dictates everything. if you grew up in a bubble you would have alot of questions and no answers.... you obviously would not know Jesus from the Devil was

Lincoln echo 7 your going to the island!

???

[Jaimecbr900]

no Heaven is nothing more then an idea

To someone that doesn't believe it exists maybe.

and as i stated Heaven isn't a christian idea it is far older the Greeks/Romans/Eygptians long before christians believed in heaven.

They believed in an afterlife, again that's different than heaven.

I think we are looking at this from two different definitions of heaven. To Christians, Heaven is the FINAL stop period. No more changing bodies, no reincarnation into a different animal, no simply decomposing, no long sleep....other religions and beliefs have their own ideas of where they are going after they die, but just because they have the idea of life after death doesn't mean they believe in "heaven".

enviroment dictates everything. if you grew up in a bubble you would have alot of questions and no answers.... you obviously would not know Jesus from the Devil was

Then why aren't you a Jehova's Witness/Catholic if environment dictates everything? That was your religious environment growing up, wasn't it? If it's everything, how are you the exception to that rule?

Lincoln echo 7 your going to the island!

Have no clue what that is.

i already answered this too jaime,... people build their morality on enviroment alone. your racist your teach your children to do the same. society deems certain acts as wrong so people of learn these morals and apply them as they see fit.

See above. You were taught a religion when you were growing up, yet you chose a different path, right? I was brought up Catholic but am Catholic no more, why is that? Our society doesn't see premarital sex as wrong, but religion does.

[4dmin]

They believed in an afterlife, again that's different than heaven.

I think we are looking at this from two different definitions of heaven. To Christians, Heaven is the FINAL stop period. No more changing bodies, no reincarnation into a different animal, no simply decomposing, no long sleep....other religions and beliefs have their own ideas of where they are going after they die, but just because they have the idea of life after death doesn't mean they believe in "heaven".

no actually HEAVEN as the bible described has been described before. as i previously noted some ancient groups believe in reincarnation but some believed there was a final resting spot... you technically you are born again in heaven if you are christian. you are starting a new life. doesn't matter the point is not to get so technical in the definition. words are just words the meaning is what counts

Then why aren't you a Jehova's Witness/Catholic if environment dictates everything? That was your religious environment growing up, wasn't it? If it's everything, how are you the exception to that rule?

actually i'm a product of enviroment as many are... see why my views are so fucked up how many catholics do you know marrying JW? na but there are exceptions to rules but your breaking it down to small... i said grew up in a bubble w/o mention of either you would know know Jesus from the Devil

Have no clue what that is.

did you see the movie THE ISLAND? my example of a bubble

See above. You were taught a religion when you were growing up, yet you chose a different path, right? I was brought up Catholic but am Catholic no more, why is that? Our society doesn't see premarital sex as wrong, but religion does.

again your looking to far into it... just b/c i'm not religious doesn't mean i don't know right from wrong. now what is debatable is what exactly i deem right from wrong. but how do i classify something right/wrong... i know what i was taught growing up, i know what i've learned from soceity, so i then apply it to real life how i see fit.

[3ll3nwood]

Mere Christianity by C.S Lewis. This topic relates directly to everything that book is about.

[C22H19N3O4]

Both you and pharm teg are trying to twist it around and I'm not going to let you.

Why don't either one of you just answer the simple question? I am asking WHY or WHAT keeps people who DON'T believe in any GOD from merely doing anything and everything they see fit since THEY believe there is NO GOD to hold them accountable for those bad choices LATER???? It's a simple enough question. Answer that and I'll explain how it correlates to religion.

Again, you are in a round about way, implying that morality goes hand in hand with God. So without God there is no concept of morality? It's been debated for a very long time.

WHY or WHAT keeps people who DON'T believe in any GOD from merely doing anything and everything they see fit since THEY believe there is NO GOD to hold them accountable for those bad choices LATER????

Then what makes Christians continue to commit sins KNOWING it is immoral?
Obviously the perils of your Hell has not deterred them. Why is murder in the name of God acceptable? What is moral about welcoming a rapist or child molester into your religion and patting him on the back for accepting Jesus as his savior? Are we to assume that his/her sins have been forgiven in the eyes of God? Society and the courts say he/she should rot in prison. IMO, Christians love to quibble about the definition of morality as it suits their needs. What is your definition of morality?

I personally don't believe in a heaven or hell. I don't make moral decisions based on the Christian payout at the end, or the eternal damnation to a fiery chasm. Christians attempt to live by guidelines that will lead them to heaven, but is that not self-serving? Is that not selfish? I question Christian morality everyday.

I don't volunteer or donate money b/c there will be a place for me in heaven when I pass. Knowing that I've helped someone today is its own heaven. I don't care about whats out there after I die. It's just me in an empty box with some earthworms.

Anyhoo, my conscience prevents me from doing the wrong thing. My conscience is not defined by God or any religion. I don't commit heinous crimes b/c of the suffering it would cause to all those involved. It's not b/c I'll be judged by your God. It's the physical and emotional anguish I would suffer right here and now that deters me. I'm more concerned with the damage I do to someone's life more than entering heaven through the express lane. Why is that not enough? Why does there have to be a reward for Christians at the end?

If the idea of heaven is so magnificent why don't more Christians find a way to end their lives and get there a little sooner? That comment wasn't directed to anyone in particular. I just couldn't resist.

BTW, I don't have to subscribe to any religion or God to accept their moral concept.

Answer that and I'll explain how it correlates to religion.

I already know what you're going to say. Just limit your response to 5 paragraphs.

[fastct9a]

How many people that claim they are christian really are? Very few. Reason being is to be a christian means to be christ like not in the since that your perfect in everything you do but you do your best to live your life according to his word.

ILL comment on the requirments on Heaven.

3 eay steps

1. Repent- asking Jesus to forgive you of your sins(meaning not going back to what you use to do)
2. Be Baptized. ( big discusion in itself between different religions but there is only one way to be baptized and thats in the NAME OF JESUS not the father, son, holy ghost.
3. Rieceve the Gift of the Holy Ghost. the evidence of speaking in other tongues( speaking a language that is never taught to you or self taught. its when you spirit talks to Jesus.

You can read it in the bible it gives it just like i said in ACT 2:38

In the Bible it says no man can enter heaven if he not born of the Water( being baptized in Jesus name) and of the Spirit(reiceving the Holy Ghost).

So thats the requirments to get to Heaven. Its not my own rendering its all in the Bible for you to read no matter what religion you are its written in the Bible.

[Romeyo07]

How many people that claim they are christian really are? Very few. Reason being is to be a christian means to be christ like not in the since that your perfect in everything you do but you do your best to live your life according to his word.

ILL comment on the requirments on Heaven.

3 eay steps

1. Repent- asking Jesus to forgive you of your sins(meaning not going back to what you use to do)
2. Be Baptized. ( big discusion in itself between different religions but there is only one way to be baptized and thats in the NAME OF JESUS not the father, son, holy ghost.
3. Rieceve the Gift of the Holy Ghost. the evidence of speaking in other tongues( speaking a language that is never taught to you or self taught. its when you spirit talks to Jesus.

You can read it in the bible it gives it just like i said in ACT 2:38

In the Bible it says no man can enter heaven if he not born of the Water( being baptized in Jesus name) and of the Spirit(reiceving the Holy Ghost).

So thats the requirments to get to Heaven. Its not my own rendering its all in the Bible for you to read no matter what religion you are its written in the Bible.

You must be pentecostal...

You only need to accept Jesus. Don't listen to this guy. Baptism is not a requirement, but something that should be considered for a few reasons. We're following in the footsteps of Jesus. It's symbolic of our death to the world and new life in Christ. When you truely accept Christ you receive the Holy Spirit. This is why there's a change in that person's life...not because of their own will to change who they are, but by the work of the Holy Spirit within someone.

Luke 23:41-43
"We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'

What does this say? The criminal acknowledged Christ's position as an innocent man being martyred. He was not baptised nor "received the holy spirit". Jesus said that he would send someone after his death (i.e. the holy spirit). Jesus had not died yet...

As for your verse:

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Peter did not say that the way to get to heaven was to do so. He is saying to do so to follow in the footsteps of Jesus. Again, it is NOT mandatory, but one who truely accepts Christ desires to do as he did.

Romans 10:13 "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved!"

Romans 10:9,10 "...If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

I suggest you find the truth on your own studying of the bible rather than spitting out what's taught to you by your preacher.

[{X}Echo419]

so what your saying is that back before organized religion it was OK to kill?

yeah, that's what I'm saying...

[fastct9a]

You must be pentecostal...

You only need to accept Jesus. Don't listen to this guy. Baptism is not a requirement, but something that should be considered for a few reasons. We're following in the footsteps of Jesus. It's symbolic of our death to the world and new life in Christ. When you truely accept Christ you receive the Holy Spirit. This is why there's a change in that person's life...not because of their own will to change who they are, but by the work of the Holy Spirit within someone.

Luke 23:41-43
"We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'

What does this say? The criminal acknowledged Christ's position as an innocent man being martyred. He was not baptised nor "received the holy spirit". Jesus said that he would send someone after his death (i.e. the holy spirit). Jesus had not died yet...

As for your verse:

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Peter did not say that the way to get to heaven was to do so. He is saying to do so to follow in the footsteps of Jesus. Again, it is NOT mandatory, but one who truely accepts Christ desires to do as he did.

Romans 10:13 "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved!"

Romans 10:9,10 "...If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

I suggest you find the truth on your own studying of the bible rather than spitting out what's taught to you by your preacher.

Is Being Pentecostal Wrong? Im not coming on here to stick my nose in the air and say Pentecostals are the only ones going to Heaven. Not every pentecostal is going to Heaven either. And actually Im Apostolic. I do my own studying and I dont take just what just my preacher says.

Well at least you see why being Baptized is important. You say it not a requirement but then you say it should be considered.

The reason the man that died on the cross went to paradise is because he died before the Holy Ghost was part of getting into Heaven. The Holy Ghost Is what Jesus sent us so that he would be living in each of us. Its something we recieve not something everyone has. I talk from a personal experience not just from someone taught.

You must have some Pentecostal background or something? I might be wrong

This deff not soemthing for me to get on her to say Im better than you, just shareing what the Bible says and my Belief.

[Romeyo07]

I'm not saying you think you're better or not, but biblically there's only ONE thing you need to do to become saved.

There's a difference between you MUST do and you SHOULD do. Baptism is asked of us when we accept Christ. Remember, its not the nature of God to force anything upon anyone.

The requirements to get to heaven haven't changed...that's a horrible answer you provided. How about you find a scripture where the requirements you listed are shown. I'll beat you to it...its not in there.

John 14:6 - I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast."

and again...layed out plain and simple

Romans 10:9-10 - "If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

[fastct9a]

So your saying all I have to do is accpet Jesus as my Personal Lord and Savior and Believe in Him and Ill be saved? So If I go out and do something thats wrong but because i belive in Jesus im still going to heaven. I think not.

Wouldnt God want us to wak in his steps and not be like the world that is part of being a Christian. So then Being baptized is us turning and having our sins washed away. You said: (We're following in the footsteps of Jesus. It's symbolic of our death to the world and new life in Christ. When you truely accept Christ you receive the Holy Spirit. This is why there's a change in that person's life...not because of their own will to change who they are, but by the work of the Holy Spirit within someone.)

So I get baptized to symbolize the death of the old man I use to be and come up a new person. wouldnt that be what Jesus would like us to do, kill the Old us and become new with Him in us.

I wish it was as easy as just saying God I believe in you and accept you to get to Heaven. I just dont see that. Everything you qouted was before the Death of Jesus and when the Holy Ghost wasnt sent to us. Now that it is, that what we have to go by. Jesus walked with them during that time. He walks with us by means of the Holy Ghost living inside us.

nice chatting with you dude.

[Romeyo07]

No matter what, you will sin, and God understands that. It's where you heart is when you do sin that matters. We were born into sin, and will continue to sin for the rest of our lives.

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Romans 6:23b "...But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Salvation is a free gift from God. You can't earn this gift, but you must reach out and receive it.

Romans 5:8 "God demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us!"

God knows we will sin, but understands that and see's the blood of Christ rather than our sin. You think you're going to be perfect and not "do something wrong"?

Romans 10:13 "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved!"

I'm quoting verses after his death. I think your problem is accepting that its that easy. God does want us to follow Jesus and in His footsteps, He wants us to get baptised, He wants us to leave our old lives and walk in a new. He does NOT force us to do anything though. We have our free will to choose to live a life for Christ. If you truly do accept Him, your desire will be to next become baptised, then continue to build your personal relationship with Him....but it is NOT required to get into Heaven.

I'll give you an example. Someone come's to Christ on a Sunday morning...does he get baptised right then and there? No...why? It's a personal decision for that person to take that next step. If he decides to do it, but gets in a wreck and dies before he gets baptised, what happens then? He accepted Christ but didn't get baptised...you don't have an answer for that because you don't know what will happen.

Your thought process leaves room for error and doubt. It leaves room for a loophole. It's not a three step process...there's just one. God makes it easy so that NO ONE has an excuse not to follow Him.

As I mentioned, you do not need to "receive" the Holy Spirit "down the road", because as you said when you truely accept Christ, that very instant you've just received it.

I grew up believing what you did and left the church around 18. I came back after finding the truth 6 years later...What does he want from me? All Christ wants us to know is that He died for our sins. Now that our sins are paid for, we can get to the Father. Who are we to add to what Jesus said? Who are we to add more rules?

[rzaray89]

this is how i remember it when i was a kid
abc
accept the fact that we are all sinners and that we should be going to hell
believe that jesus came to die for all of our sins so that we wouldnt have to go to hell
confess that you are a sinner and that you want to repent your sins.

ephesians 2:8-9
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

"being a good person" might work for other religions, but its all about your faith

[metalman]

ephesians 2:8-9
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

"being a good person" might work for other religions, but its all about your faith

Yep. And if you continue that same line of thought/study you'll find that "faith without works is dead"..and worthless.
Therefore although all are saved by grace through faith, that true faith will lead to action....that being turning from away from sin to walk in a new life guided by Christ. The Bible defines that as keeping the commandments/Word of God.