For those that don't like God

[Jaimecbr900]

I wasn't born "anything". I was born me... I was "directed" by a very religious family and I had doubts even then. The older I got, the more opinionated I became... and the more EDUCATED I became.

That was my point. You said earlier that we are a product of our environment and since we didn't choose where we are born, we just follow the masses, right??? Well, how come YOU can be different? You may be educated, but you certainly aren't the ONLY educated person on earth, right? So, how did environment force YOU to do anything?

It keeps MOST of the people happy MOST of the time... helps people sleep better when they THINK that some big bad supernatural boss "has their back" when they do not realize that the drunk driver beside them on the highway has MORE control over the next 30 seconds of their life than *God in *Heaven.

Why do you always look at God as a force merely associated with Death? It seems like a lot of your examples on why you don't believe center around death and God's "control" over it or lack thereof.

If you trip and fall in front of a train, you WILL DIE, period. God fearing or not. You WILL DIE. Does that mean the train was controlling you? Does that mean the train should be in charge of everyone from there on out? Why does a "drunk driver" have any more control over me than God does? How many "drunk drivers" do you pass by WITHOUT DYING every single day? More than one, I'm sure. Did those drunk drivers that did nothing to you not count?

I guess I'm just having a hard time understanding why you center God's existance or lack thereof (according to you) around death and destruction and mayhem? What about the good things that happen? Who gets credit for those? Luck? Martians? Leprechauns? Who? Why is it that people question why bad things happen, but don't give credit when good things happen?

I am NOT stupid... I KNOW that there is a higher power... but I simply believe that's about the extent of... there's a higher power. Over ALL beings, not "just" Christians.

What is this "higher power's" purpose?

[4dmin]

maybe its just me but i dont' have a void to fill. my life is complete i'm not worried about my afterlife or this shell i live in. i think its easy for those on the outside to think non beleivers don't feel or haven't tried to...

if i honestly sat here and ask for a sign from above it won't happen; some will say well its b/c your not supposed to test god or its b/c you don't want it. why not? prove to anyone the glory and they will follow. its that easy.

test of faith... we'll walk to the edge of the cliff you step off will your faith save you? i know i have no problem stopping at the edge and waving goodbye to ya

[Jaimecbr900]

maybe its just me but i dont' have a void to fill. my life is complete i'm not worried about my afterlife or this shell i live in. i think its easy for those on the outside to think non beleivers don't feel or haven't tried to...

I thought you said you did believe in an afterlife, just not the one "religion" foretells about?

if i honestly sat here and ask for a sign from above it won't happen; some will say well its b/c your not supposed to test god or its b/c you don't want it. why not? prove to anyone the glory and they will follow. its that easy.

The point is NOT to be easy, it's to believe when others don't that proves you truly believe in something.

BTW, role reversal: You could also sit there and tell yourself that if there was NO GOD, somehow you should receive final confirmation of that somehow. How long do you think you'd be waiting for that? Probably not long because you honestly BELIEVE God doesn't exist. How come you can have that kind of "faith" on nothing, yet profess that it's silly to believe in something you can't see? Aren't you doing the same thing only in reverse?

test of faith... we'll walk to the edge of the cliff you step off will your faith save you? i know i have no problem stopping at the edge and waving goodbye to ya

How's that a test of faith? Find anywhere in the Bible or anywhere else where it says that if you jump off a cliff and you are a true believer God will miraculously save you somehow. Find any passage that mentions people committing suicide is a way to show "faith".

[4dmin]

I thought you said you did believe in an afterlife, just not the one "religion" foretells about?




The point is NOT to be easy, it's to believe when others don't that proves you truly believe in something.

BTW, role reversal: You could also sit there and tell yourself that if there was NO GOD, somehow you should receive final confirmation of that somehow. How long do you think you'd be waiting for that? Probably not long because you honestly BELIEVE God doesn't exist. How come you can have that kind of "faith" on nothing, yet profess that it's silly to believe in something you can't see? Aren't you doing the same thing only in reverse?




How's that a test of faith? Find anywhere in the Bible or anywhere else where it says that if you jump off a cliff and you are a true believer God will miraculously save you somehow. Find any passage that mentions people committing suicide is a way to show "faith".

i dont' believe in an afterlife, but if there is one i don't think its anything we've seen described in a book but what we have created for ourselves.

the point jaime is the why don't I believe. simply i don't have faith in something i don't believe exsist. you on the other hand have faith correct? i've heard the term 'miracle' thrown around many times and 'faith'... well as i said we walk to the cliff i'll wave goodbye b/c no amount of faith is going to save you. and its not commiting suicide if you have faith, b/c if your faith was strong enough you would know that god himself will take your life when its ready and protect you from any harm.

[Jaimecbr900]

i dont' believe in an afterlife, but if there is one i don't think its anything we've seen described in a book but what we have created for ourselves.

That's double talking my friend. You either believe there is or isn't, not both. I understand what you're trying to say, but you'd be better served by merely saying the first part and not adding the latter. It makes it sound like you're sitting on the fence.

My car is faster than yours. <---That is a statement of straight belief and convinction.

My car is faster than yours, BUT IF it isn't it's because I have a weak cylinder. <----That is a statement that is much weaker than the above one because I'm leaving myself an "out" which shows I have atleast SOME doubt or possibility of getting beat.

See what I'm saying?

the point jaime is the why don't I believe. simply i don't have faith in something i don't believe exsist. you on the other hand have faith correct? i've heard the term 'miracle' thrown around many times and 'faith'...

You have said you do believe there is a "higher power" before, just not the as described in the Bible. That's awful close to the definition of having "faith" in something, right????

Question: What exactly is this "higher power" you DO believe exists going to DO for YOU?

well as i said we walk to the cliff i'll wave goodbye b/c no amount of faith is going to save you. and its not commiting suicide if you have faith, b/c if your faith was strong enough you would know that god himself will take your life when its ready and protect you from any harm.

It is suicide to do something that you KNOW will cause you to die.

Show me where in the Bible or in the definition of "faith" it refers to "faith" as a shield or saving you from jumping off cliffs or from committing suicide. How is jumping off a cliff going to prove faith or lack thereof then?

faith ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fth)
n.
Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
A set of principles or beliefs.

[Romeyo07]

Wouldn't you think that believing in a higher being is thinking outside the box? If its not, then it's natural to believe that such a thing exists. I know you acknowledge a higher being, but why not an "over all" God?

Ever think that maybe there's a chance that what you believe was told to you, not so much something you derrived on your own. An influence brought to you, not spoken, but thoughts and theories that you've come to accept. This has then become part of you and now what you fully believe. As convinced you are that there is no God by your own "proof", we believe as strongly as you do about our convictions.

So what does it come down to? You and I can agree to disagree. I'll be providing you with my facts that I find true and that you find no value in. All in all, I will continue to act as the Christian I should, and in my eyes, hopefully you'll see "the light". In your eyes, you'll continue to be who you are because you are self justified. I'm sure you don't care what I do with my personal beliefs, so long as they don't trample on you or yours.

[4dmin]

Wouldn't you think that believing in a higher being is thinking outside the box? If its not, then it's natural to believe that such a thing exists. I know you acknowledge a higher being, but why not an "over all" God?

believing in higher being is outside the box, now believing in JESUS is not.

Ever think that maybe there's a chance that what you believe was told to you, not so much something you derrived on your own. An influence brought to you, not spoken, but thoughts and theories that you've come to accept. This has then become part of you and now what you fully believe. As convinced you are that there is no God by your own "proof", we believe as strongly as you do about our convictions.

everything one believes is derrived from previous knowlege. no one wakes up and say i'm a christian, atheist, muslim, etc.

I'm sure you don't care what I do with my personal beliefs, so long as they don't trample on you or yours.

i don't care if you don't agree w/ me but if you stand in my way we have a problem. does that answer your question?

[{X}Echo419]

I think, "thinking outside the box" is a relative term.

how could he stand in the way of your beliefs?

this is kinda why I think debating religon is foolish. no one is ever(at least on here) to change their religon or whatever. that is something someone has to do on their own.

[Hulud]

this is kinda why I think debating religon is foolish. no one is ever(at least on here) to change their religon or whatever. that is something someone has to do on their own.

no ones trying to change anyone

this forum was brought up to enlighten others, on others ideals. not to convert anyone

[{X}Echo419]

no ones trying to change anyone

this forum was brought up to enlighten others, on others ideals. not to convert anyone

maybe if this was more of a Q&A but these threads look more like Debates, to me at least...

[Hulud]

maybe if this was more of a Q&A but these threads look more like Debates, to me at least...

of course they are debates, but no one is saying "you should believe god" or vice versa

[4dmin]

That's double talking my friend. You either believe there is or isn't, not both. I understand what you're trying to say, but you'd be better served by merely saying the first part and not adding the latter. It makes it sound like you're sitting on the fence.

sorry what your not seeing is i'm not stupid... i'm saying i don't believe there is one, but i could also be wrong i'm not going to say what i believe is right shit i haven't been dead yet but if i'm wrong i don't think its what your book is led you to believe.

What exactly is this "higher power" you DO believe exists going to DO for YOU?

do i believe are are unexplained forces about? sure there are always going to be unanswered questions... is there some higher being, obviously... doesn't mean GOD, shit aliens can be higher being if you wanted them to be.... hell i don't know all i know is we live in a complex world w/ complex questions yet one can truely answer. so until then on the side of caution i dont' believe everything i read nor do i take it to be 100% false. the bible very well may be the gateway to something else but that doesn't mean that its true or that its a gateway to anything one would want to be apart of.

It is suicide to do something that you KNOW will cause you to die.

Show me where in the Bible or in the definition of "faith" it refers to "faith" as a shield or saving you from jumping off cliffs or from committing suicide. How is jumping off a cliff going to prove faith or lack thereof then?

good i was awaiting you to comment on this i wrote that for a reason... Jaime do you believe in MIRACLES? You obviously believe in PHROPHECY of the bible or you wouldn't believe in jesus.

[Jaimecbr900]

sorry what your not seeing is i'm not stupid...

A heathen, yes....stupid, no......

i'm saying i don't believe there is one, but i could also be wrong i'm not going to say what i believe is right shit i haven't been dead yet but if i'm wrong i don't think its what your book is led you to believe.

Again, double talking. See my car example in the previous post.

What you are essentially saying is that you DON'T truly believe something then, right? You are in fact riding the fence.

You do realize that once you're "dead" you don't have a chance to change your mind about anything, right? So whatever you believe, have done, have NOT done, etc when you die is what you die with, right? So, leaving yourself an "out" for AFTER you die is totally worthless.

do i believe are are unexplained forces about? sure there are always going to be unanswered questions... is there some higher being, obviously... doesn't mean GOD, shit aliens can be higher being if you wanted them to be.... hell i don't know all i know is we live in a complex world w/ complex questions yet one can truely answer.

Again, you believe in a higher being...fine.

What does this "higher being" do for you exactly?

so until then on the side of caution i dont' believe everything i read nor do i take it to be 100% false. the bible very well may be the gateway to something else but that doesn't mean that its true or that its a gateway to anything one would want to be apart of.

That's just it, you cannot expect to be given anything (good, bad, or indifferent) if you ride the fence your whole life.

good i was awaiting you to comment on this i wrote that for a reason... Jaime do you believe in MIRACLES? You obviously believe in PHROPHECY of the bible or you wouldn't believe in jesus.

I'll bite.....I do believe in miracles.

[Hulud]

I'll bite.....I do believe in miracles.

reel him in paul LOL









sorry i had too

[4dmin]

Again, double talking. See my car example in the previous post.

What you are essentially saying is that you DON'T truly believe something then, right? You are in fact riding the fence.

You do realize that once you're "dead" you don't have a chance to change your mind about anything, right? So whatever you believe, have done, have NOT done, etc when you die is what you die with, right? So, leaving yourself an "out" for AFTER you die is totally worthless.

i'm not double talking... i believe one thing and am fully aware its possible i'm wrong.... the difference between me and you is you SAY YOUR RIGHT, but w/o acknowledging possibly your wrong. I dont' believe in your heaven/hell but if i'm wrong i know where i'm going

b/c i acknowledge i maybe wrong doesn't say anything... i rather die open minded then die blindly. besides your sounded quite closed minded, like you've died before you can't say 100% what is/isn't you only know what you believe to be real. you may very well be 100% wrong and it will be a big surprise to you. i don't pretend to have all the answers.

What does this "higher being" do for you exactly?

nothing you took out of context what i think a higher being is.. i don't have a defintion for a higher being, when i meet one i'll tell you.

the problem w/ religion is we take calculus and try to break it down to simple addition. you can't do that w/ religion. just b/c i say i think divine intervent starts a cycle to which man has gotten to doesn't mean i believe in GOD doesn't mean this divine power has any bearing on our situation. we are merely pons in a big game of chess

so to planly answer you question. nothing. higher being has no power over me. i am my own god.

That's just it, you cannot expect to be given anything (good, bad, or indifferent) if you ride the fence your whole life.

thats what your not getting i'm not riding the fence i'm content w/ dying and going nowhere. thats what i believe at this time. but i'm not dead yet so i can't tell you if what i believe is correct as you can't tell me what heaven is like b/c you've never been there.

how about this if i die before you and i'm wrong if i go to hell i'm getting a hall pass to haunt the fuck out of you till your last days in this hell on earth. if i'm right, you can visit me at my grave sleeping.

I'll bite.....I do believe in miracles.

ok you have faith in the miracles, you have faith in the prophecy of the bible, but you dont' have enough faith that god will keep you out of harms way? what the fuck are you praying for if you don't believe your HIGHER BEING is answering you?

[BABY J]

If any of you are truly car enthusiasts i am sure you refer to your haynes manuals for technical info, and daily problems. A lot of your mislead inturpretations can be clearified through your own studies which you will only truly understand after the basic knowledge of the Bible is learned and believed.

thanks for your time, and all the unnecessary comments that i am sure will follow, joe

So, hmmm... let's say I'm MUSLIM. I tell you to refer to the manual (the Quran) and educate yourself and turn from your silly Christian ways. Based on what you just said this should work right? You will learn the "truth" and convert to what's REALLY real... ISLAM!

See where your error is?

[Jaimecbr900]

So, hmmm... let's say I'm MUSLIM. I tell you to refer to the manual (the Quran) and educate yourself and turn from your silly Christian ways. Based on what you just said this should work right? You will learn the "truth" and convert to what's REALLY real... ISLAM!

See where your error is?

I think he was trying to say that some of the misconceptions about "religion" come from people that haven't even read the bible and only pass on urban myths.