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Thread: My day out at the police range.....

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    King of the Mountain Truegiant's Avatar
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    shooting at something without aiming at it huh. Sounds effective.
    Only two men ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. Defend your rights or lose them forever.

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    Team Korupshun DamnDisLaOsBoY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truegiant
    shooting at something without aiming at it huh. Sounds effective.
    yeh its what the police call like a muscle memory thing i forgot what its really called. they say once you are in a situation and if a guy is pulling out a gun or so, you do not have time to pull out and aim with your sights. thats why we pull out and fire twice each time. i think its pretty effective and more suitable for a real life scenario. they say aiming is good to know for sure. but this is for more of a instant drill. we went in that trailer and did a scenario actually. he told me to walk through the hallway aiming, all your concentration is on your sights. and if someone pops out and fires, you are a dead man. if you have your firearm right below you and use that pull u and shoot method, you still have your whole tunnel vision with that reaction we practiced. some people may be against it but hey, its what the police/swat was teaching me the most effective way to shoot in reality. Aiming is for more of a distance thing. notice we practiced at like 15 yards max. and i pretty much almost hit the target on like atleast 90% of the shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnDisLaOsBoY
    yeh its what the police call like a muscle memory thing i forgot what its really called. they say once you are in a situation and if a guy is pulling out a gun or so, you do not have time to pull out and aim with your sights. thats why we pull out and fire twice each time. i think its pretty effective and more suitable for a real life scenario. they say aiming is good to know for sure. but this is for more of a instant drill.
    muscle memory is for drawl stroke, including pushing out to the target (and being on target each time).

    we went in that trailer and did a scenario actually. he told me to walk through the hallway aiming, all your concentration is on your sights. and if someone pops out and fires, you are a dead man.
    eyes on front sight after PID is established. when searching your eyes are scanning looking for a thread, once PID is made then eyes go to front sight.

    if you have your firearm right below you and use that pull u and shoot method, you still have your whole tunnel vision with that reaction we practiced. some people may be against it but hey, its what the police/swat was teaching me the most effective way to shoot in reality. Aiming is for more of a distance thing. notice we practiced at like 15 yards max. and i pretty much almost hit the target on like atleast 90% of the shots.
    There is a delicate balance between distance and quality of aiming. Alot of cqb is front sight only type thing. as your distance gets closer, the less precise of aiming you have to do. But for someone to tell you not to use your sights in a engagement under 15yards is insane to me. And remember with 90% accuracy you killing 10 innocent babies for every 90 badguys you kill. As a civilian thats not acceptable. I train to hit close to 100% as possible, as fast as possible.

    my underlying point here is not using your sights when less than 15 yards is not a fair assumption imo.
    "The 1911 is a collection of subsystems that must work together. Each part must be prepared and fit properly not only in and of itself, but also with regard to the other parts with which it must operate for the gun to function and appear as desired."

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    Team Korupshun DamnDisLaOsBoY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny
    muscle memory is for drawl stroke, including pushing out to the target (and being on target each time).



    eyes on front sight after PID is established. when searching your eyes are scanning looking for a thread, once PID is made then eyes go to front sight.



    There is a delicate balance between distance and quality of aiming. Alot of cqb is front sight only type thing. as your distance gets closer, the less precise of aiming you have to do. But for someone to tell you not to use your sights in a engagement under 15yards is insane to me. And remember with 90% accuracy you killing 10 innocent babies for every 90 badguys you kill. As a civilian thats not acceptable. I train to hit close to 100% as possible, as fast as possible.

    my underlying point here is not using your sights when less than 15 yards is not a fair assumption imo.
    yeh i feel you. i totally need to step up my aiming and distance game but i just thought it was a cool method to know. i personally would not use it everytime but it would be good for a face to face situation or certain different scenarios.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnDisLaOsBoY
    yeh i feel you. i totally need to step up my aiming and distance game but i just thought it was a cool method to know. i personally would not use it everytime but it would be good for a face to face situation or certain different scenarios.

    a drill i like that may interest you is shooting soon as you are extended and on target (zero delay). These are aimed shots, that train you to pick up the sights fast and muscle memory to present the weapon the same way each time. this eliminates the "time to aim" argument, and also practices safe gun handling by aiming what your shooting at.

    that may be the solution your looking for?!?!
    "The 1911 is a collection of subsystems that must work together. Each part must be prepared and fit properly not only in and of itself, but also with regard to the other parts with which it must operate for the gun to function and appear as desired."

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    King of the Mountain Truegiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny
    a drill i like that may interest you is shooting soon as you are extended and on target (zero delay). These are aimed shots, that train you to pick up the sights fast and muscle memory to present the weapon the same way each time. this eliminates the "time to aim" argument, and also practices safe gun handling by aiming what your shooting at.

    that may be the solution your looking for?!?!
    The best way to practice this drill is with standard sights and not night sights or any form of tridium sight. It really gets you to practice muscle memory because you dont have that nice pretty front white dot to stair at.
    Only two men ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. Defend your rights or lose them forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truegiant
    The best way to practice this drill is with standard sights and not night sights or any form of tridium sight. It really gets you to practice muscle memory because you dont have that nice pretty front white dot to stair at.

    i like that

    *paints sights black*
    "The 1911 is a collection of subsystems that must work together. Each part must be prepared and fit properly not only in and of itself, but also with regard to the other parts with which it must operate for the gun to function and appear as desired."

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    Team Korupshun DamnDisLaOsBoY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny
    a drill i like that may interest you is shooting soon as you are extended and on target (zero delay). These are aimed shots, that train you to pick up the sights fast and muscle memory to present the weapon the same way each time. this eliminates the "time to aim" argument, and also practices safe gun handling by aiming what your shooting at.

    that may be the solution your looking for?!?!
    sounds great. i love learning different tactics. we should schedule a range meet!!! i still got alot of range time to put in.

    lol btw true giant. i am going to savannah july 16-19. i saw u teach classes down there. If i have time i would love to stop by.

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    King of the Mountain Truegiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnDisLaOsBoY
    sounds great. i love learning different tactics. we should schedule a range meet.i still got alot of range time to put in.

    lol btw true giant. i am going to savannah july 16-19. i saw u teach classes down there. If i have time i would love to stop by.
    I will check my training schedule at work. If I have off I do not mind sharing information. I hate to use the word teach. It implies that I have knowledge. And right now I feel dumb as shit. (I had to take a class on a new optics system our unit is switching to. WOW! Talk about overload.)
    Only two men ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. Defend your rights or lose them forever.

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