There are SO MANY MORONS posting in this section!

[Master Shake]

Haha, I do accept the fact that other people believe in christ. Shit, my parents are hardcore religious nutcakes. I don't hate 'em for it. I just don't like we people preach about the bible like they know what they're babbling about when in reality don't have a clue.

I've done this before and I'm not kidding. I've asked a pastor - questions about the bible and he could not answer them without looking in the bible. I asked him questions and he didn't have the answers to them. Haaha, I'm not bashing you for your beliefs, tran. You seem to be the only person who has taken my posts in this thread serious which is why I'm only fucking with you. To get to you - get it? Haha, troLLed!

i question people's beliefs is one thing, but to bash them for it, is wrong. like, thats one thing that you really shouldn't do.

i've questioned a pastor at a church i used to go to once and i tried to keep it questions to where it was just me and the pastor that knew about it. well someone over heard it, and he was fired cause the people of that church couldn't believe what he told me and all the members of that church, quit going. and this is the first time i've spoken about it since. it was about being gay a sin. but here's the question i asked...


me-so god has plans for everyone he creates and knows exactly all the choices that person will make thru-out their life, correct?
pastor- yes, this is true.
me- and being gay is a sin, correct?
pastor- yes.
me-and for that sin, you are condemn to hell for all eternity?
pastor- yes, but what exactly are you wanting to know?
me- why does God create someone, just to comdemn them to hell?
pastor- he doesn't do that he...(i cut him off short)
me- but if he creates a person and knows all the actions and choices that person is gonna make, and they turn out to be a gay, then why was that person create if he knowingly was gonna send that person to hell?

that pastor couldn't answer the question.

out of all questions i have ever wondered, that one question was the only one i asked. ever since then i just learned to take it how it is, and i'll find out my answers when i leave this earth. cause really, i don't think a pastor could give me the answers i'm looking for that make sense.

[sport_122]

i question people's beliefs is one thing, but to bash them for it, is wrong. like, that's one thing that you really shouldn't do.

i've questioned a pastor at a church i used to go to once and i tried to keep it questions to where it was just me and the pastor that knew about it. well someone over heard it, and he was fired cause the people of that church couldn't believe what he told me and all the members of that church, quit going. and this is the first time i've spoken about it since. it was about being gay a sin. but here's the question i asked...


me-so god has plans for everyone he creates and knows exactly all the choices that person will make thru-out their life, correct?
pastor- yes, this is true.
me- and being gay is a sin, correct?
pastor- yes.
me-and for that sin, you are condemn to hell for all eternity?
pastor- yes, but what exactly are you wanting to know?
me- why does God create someone, just to comdemn them to hell?
pastor- he doesn't do that he...(i cut him off short)
me- but if he creates a person and knows all the actions and choices that person is gonna make, and they turn out to be a gay, then why was that person create if he knowingly was gonna send that person to hell?

that pastor couldn't answer the question.

out of all questions i have ever wondered, that one question was the only one i asked. ever since then i just learned to take it how it is, and i'll find out my answers when i leave this earth. cause really, i don't think a pastor could give me the answers i'm looking for that make sense.

?Why did you cut him off and then say that he had no answer?

I can try to answer that question, but you must first understand that we have different world views and to understand any answer from any person of faith you must first realize that they may have a completely different way of understanding the character of God.

I see lots of people posting the bashing the God who "sits with his arms folded and does not get involved, or the made to burn concept" but I think even from a non believer stand point it is inaccurate to come to that conclusion if you look at the totality of the Bible.

If you are going off of the faith of God as Christianity understands him, which is the only one that my world view can understand, then you have to look at the totality of his character and not a snapshot. The totality of God's character is a just, loving, jealous God who makes law and maintains his word. So first I have to say what I believe the Bible to be.

I believe that the Bible is completely about the redemption of men. I believe it starts where it starts because it is not intended to explain the how's of creation and evolution and all those things that people get caught on. and it is the fault of many of us Christian's that we try to turn the Bible into what it is not intended for. I believe that people ask the wrong questions of the Bible, which are illogical to ask. For instance, if you buy an xbox or playstation you would not expect the manual to have the schematics and diagrams for wiring and all its internal electrical components and drives because Microsoft and Sony don't give that information to you. You would only expect to be provide with information on how to set it up and basic system info. We often ask the Bible to tell us these types of specific things and it does not. It doesn't tell us the age of the earth or whether or not dinosaurs where around, etc etc.

Keeping that in mind lets go back to your question:
According to the Bible and what we know of the character of God (which is not everything) we do know that upon the onset of the law that god condemns us with, there is also the redemption that God supplies for us (christians believe) through the life of Jesus.

so if you are asking if people that are gay are in sin, I would say, yes, but no more than a straight person, because there are many more ways that we break the laws that God set out for us that is laid out all over the bible. But just as the person who is not homosexual has the ability for redemption through Christ (remember we are talking about the christian perspective) the same thing exists for the homosexual.

What I am saying is that in God's eyes it only takes disobedience. That could be in the form of taking from a forbidden tree or murder or sexual sin, or lying, etc etc. But it never stops there for the sinner, because the work that God does is not complete until Christ is crucified. Only then is the truth fullfilled in Gods promises to men. The promise was that he would provide us with life and with redemption and freedom from the entrapment of sin of which we could not survive.

so in my world view, the totality of who God is is shown in the way that he has decided to reveal his grace, mercy, justice and love to us. It is no surprise to us that we do not understand it all the time. also keep in mind that there are many questions that will be asked of the believer of which he should not be able to answer, does that make the persons faith less valid? No, if believers could provide answers to everything I would be much more concerned at the fact that the God we believe in, who is most high and powerful, is so easily defined by us. he is not, and nobody, the christian, the atheist, the muslim, should expect him to be easily defined or his ways easily understood.

[BABY J]

... I see lots of people posting the bashing the God who "sits with his arms folded and does not get involved, or the made to burn concept" but I think even from a non believer stand point it is inaccurate to come to that conclusion if you look at the totality of the Bible.

"Totality of the bible"? LMFAO!!! Are you serious? There are theists who have spent 50 - 60 - 70 and 80 years "figuring" out the bible... and they have but put a DENT in it... bc it's written in a circlular fashion BY DESIGN to keep you hunched over your kitchen table w/ a NIV, King James Version, West Side Amplified Holy Crap Version, a dictionary, thesaurus, the internet, some dude name bubba, 2 D batteries, a gem-clip, a pack of Twizzlers and your grandma to break down 1 fucking paragraph which in itself was even improperly translated. LOL. I find it quite odd that of all people, "YOU" have the ability to answer a question about homosexuality b/c you understand the "totality of the bible." Holy shit, you're the 1st... some1 get this guy a glass of water so he can walk on it.

I believe that the Bible is completely about the redemption of men. I believe it starts where it starts because it is not intended to explain the how's of creation and evolution and all those things that people get caught on. and it is the fault of many of us Christian's that we try to turn the Bible into what it is not intended for. I believe that people ask the wrong questions of the Bible, which are illogical to ask. For instance, if you buy an xbox or playstation you would not expect the manual to have the schematics and diagrams for wiring and all its internal electrical components and drives because Microsoft and Sony don't give that information to you. You would only expect to be provide with information on how to set it up and basic system info. We often ask the Bible to tell us these types of specific things and it does not. It doesn't tell us the age of the earth or whether or not dinosaurs where around, etc etc.

THIS is where you fail (again). The bible can be SOO specific about the EXACT amount one should give for tithes - not 9%, not 11 - but 10!! It can tell you the EXACTING measurements for the Ark... but now it's conveniently not a book of exacting specifications. You people kill me.

What should further let you know that you fail is that you have to say "your view" when you are talking about a book that should have a VERY much defined "stance". For you to base your life on such a novel, why do NO TWO believers interpret it the same? I actually don't even want an answer... but you'd think that THE WORD OF GOD would be exacting and unwaivering, infallable. I mean... we've had "a few years" to iron out the wrinkles ya know.

What I am saying is that in God's eyes it only takes disobedience. That could be in the form of taking from a forbidden tree or murder or sexual sin, or lying, etc etc. But it never stops there for the sinner, because the work that God does is not complete until Christ is crucified.

Really? So why do verses like this exist? Leviticus 20:13 - this tells me that homosexual activity is held to a higher standard of WRONG than simple "lying" (as u stated above). There are many better examples of what should happen to a man who lays w/ another man this as well but I am sleepy... LOL. But since you have the "totality of the bible" figured out I'm sure you know those scriptures. ALREADY, listening to you will have some guy who is dealing w/ homsexuality thinking "this isn't that bad --- sin is sin" when in face even the BIBLE disagrees w/ you. Congrats on having some1 else's blood on YOUR hands. To all of you wanna be soul-winners out there remeber this. If you are not SURGICAL w/ this biblical/religious shit then it's prob best not to say ANYTHING AT ALL lest you inadvertantly send some1 to hell on your watch.

...No, if believers could provide answers to everything I would be much more concerned at the fact that the God we believe in, who is most high and powerful, is so easily defined by us. he is not, and nobody, the christian, the atheist, the muslim, should expect him to be easily defined or his ways easily understood.

You do this all the time. You say He speaks to you -- this ALL KNOWING OMNIPOTENT being "speaks" to you? WOW! You really think that you and all other believers have the antenna and other receptive media required to communicate w/ such a being? If there was a God and he was as Billy-Bad-Ass as you say 1) why would he talk to YOU (lol)... and 2) Your fucking head would explode even if tried to whisper. Who do you think YOU are that He would waste time speaking to you? You got THAT much shit figured out about this rock that you can "hear" God? Amazing. Can you speak to a horse using it's language? What about a pig? What about a dolphin? Then what makes you think you can communicate w/ the supernatural... and if you can, what makes you think it'd want to communicate w/ YOU?

I actually think that if there is a higher being (i really don't give a fuck - I'm here, THAT is what is real to me) he dropped us off here and left the rest up to us and we are failing miserably. PERIOD. He is NOT speaking to any1. He is NOT "guiding" any1. He is not making moves that impact your measly little life just b/c you bow down on by your bed every night. Swing and a miss.

[sport_122]

"Totality of the bible"? LMFAO!!! Are you serious? There are theists who have spent 50 - 60 - 70 and 80 years "figuring" out the bible... and they have but put a DENT in it... bc it's written in a circlular fashion BY DESIGN to keep you hunched over your kitchen table w/ a NIV, King James Version, West Side Amplified Holy Crap Version, a dictionary, thesaurus, the internet, some dude name bubba, 2 D batteries, a gem-clip, a pack of Twizzlers and your grandma to break down 1 fucking paragraph which in itself was even improperly translated. LOL. I find it quite odd that of all people, "YOU" have the ability to answer a question about homosexuality b/c you understand the "totality of the bible." Holy shit, you're the 1st... some1 get this guy a glass of water so he can walk on it.



THIS is where you fail (again). The bible can be SOO specific about the EXACT amount one should give for tithes - not 9%, not 11 - but 10!! It can tell you the EXACTING measurements for the Ark... but now it's conveniently not a book of exacting specifications. You people kill me.

What should further let you know that you fail is that you have to say "your view" when you are talking about a book that should have a VERY much defined "stance". For you to base your life on such a novel, why do NO TWO believers interpret it the same? I actually don't even want an answer... but you'd think that THE WORD OF GOD would be exacting and unwaivering, infallable. I mean... we've had "a few years" to iron out the wrinkles ya know.



Really? So why do verses like this exist? Leviticus 20:13 - this tells me that homosexual activity is held to a higher standard of WRONG than simple "lying" (as u stated above). There are many better examples of what should happen to a man who lays w/ another man this as well but I am sleepy... LOL. But since you have the "totality of the bible" figured out I'm sure you know those scriptures. ALREADY, listening to you will have some guy who is dealing w/ homsexuality thinking "this isn't that bad --- sin is sin" when in face even the BIBLE disagrees w/ you. Congrats on having some1 else's blood on YOUR hands. To all of you wanna be soul-winners out there remeber this. If you are not SURGICAL w/ this biblical/religious shit then it's prob best not to say ANYTHING AT ALL lest you inadvertantly send some1 to hell on your watch.



You do this all the time. You say He speaks to you -- this ALL KNOWING OMNIPOTENT being "speaks" to you? WOW! You really think that you and all other believers have the antenna and other receptive media required to communicate w/ such a being? If there was a God and he was as Billy-Bad-Ass as you say 1) why would he talk to YOU (lol)... and 2) Your fucking head would explode even if tried to whisper. Who do you think YOU are that He would waste time speaking to you? You got THAT much shit figured out about this rock that you can "hear" God? Amazing. Can you speak to a horse using it's language? What about a pig? What about a dolphin? Then what makes you think you can communicate w/ the supernatural... and if you can, what makes you think it'd want to communicate w/ YOU?

I actually think that if there is a higher being (i really don't give a fuck - I'm here, THAT is what is real to me) he dropped us off here and left the rest up to us and we are failing miserably. PERIOD. He is NOT speaking to any1. He is NOT "guiding" any1. He is not making moves that impact your measly little life just b/c you bow down on by your bed every night. Swing and a miss.

way to continue to write a bunch of crap that is not in context with the post of which you replied. You commented on things that I said that I DIDN'T say...Great way to demonstrate intelligence. You are amazing!!!

BTW...Ever since you failed to add any substance or reason to any of your posts (except the UFO one), I really can't take anything you say seriously because I don't think you are a legit debater, but you are a mocker and scoffer. You are not Dawkins, you are a hitchens, lacking good solid reason for your ideas, save for the emotional disagreements tout, you reduce yourself to elementary school yard ridicule.

You need to read my post and stop trying to read INTO my posts. You do not understand my worldview therefor you cannot comprehend and make reasonable deductions on anything I say. But you have given me your worldview in a previous post of which you told me that everything revolves around you and preservation of you. (without even a consideration to your own family, yet you would suggest that your worldview makes for a better world...)
You are again on of those types of people who claim logic and reason, and even have the incredible ability to tell me that "my view" is wrong and that to have to state things in "my view" is a joke and yet you turn around and tell us what "you think".

so do you or do you not think based on "your view"? Because you have often said that you are only concerned about yourself and nothing else matters remember "j'son works for what j'son wants, when j'son wants it" remember that? You said it so I would assume that much like my post did say, I can only attempt to add understanding to a concern based on MY UNDERSTANDING of the way things are based on my worldview which is founded on a compilation of evidence.

But you according to you, you ONLY SUBSCRIBE TO THE IDEAS OF J'SON. Which means all theories of human interaction call you a fool as who you are is a direct product of the products of your experiences. But it doesn't matter to you because you only believe in J'son... and you don't care, yet you care enough to try to "educate, if that is what you think you are doing, people based on no view because having "your view" is considered a joke.

Yup I fail, but I would rather fail being who I am with a logical reason to my thoughts. than to be completely fake with the emotional tendency to live only to stroke my own ego. If my existence and the existence of my way of thinking is sad then yours is an abomination to all things.

I await another "well thought out" comic sketch from you...you make me laugh and cry like a good movie. If I could I would sell tickets and cut you in.

[BABY J]

Here are a few questions that you missed - make sure you answer them for yourself.

1) The bible can be SOO specific about the EXACT amount one should give for tithes - not 9%, not 11 - but 10!! It can tell you the EXACTING measurements for the Ark... but now it's conveniently not a book of exacting specifications?? EXPLAIN this to me... this is your chance to soulwin and draw me nearer to Thee.

2) So why do verses like this exist? Leviticus 20:13 - this tells me that homosexual activity is held to a higher standard of WRONG than simple "lying" (as u stated above). Yet YOU say "sin is sin" -- elaborate. Is sin sin? Or are there levels... (tread softly here b/c i WILL put you on blast if you miss this one... this is Christianty 101.

3) So does God speak to you or does he not? B/c if he DOES then you can ask him to answer those questions. If he DOESN'T, then where did you get the "wealth of knowledge" that you possess?

Ever since you failed to add any substance or reason to any of your posts (except the UFO one), I really can't take anything you say seriously because I don't think you are a legit debater, but you are a mocker and scoffer. You are not Dawkins, you are a hitchens, lacking good solid reason for your ideas,

Hitchens? No - try J'son. I don't need an external source to define who I am -- how I act, and scare me into doing things that are "common sense" just so I can go to heave. Struck a nerve yet?? Show me your substance. You have NONE yet you command that of me. Pot? Kettle?? And I'm supposed to take YOU seriously when you base your LIFE on a book that has more questions than answers??

You do not understand my worldview therefor you cannot comprehend and make reasonable deductions on anything I say.

That's b/c you don't undertand your worldview either. You tell a man that "sin is sin" when I can write a NOVEL on how MANY scriptures will disagree with you.

I can only attempt to add understanding to a concern based on MY UNDERSTANDING of the way things are based on my worldview which is founded on a compilation of evidence.

So you are saying that YOUR understanding supersedes the understanding of what people charged w/ leading people spiritually have?? You are telling me that "The Word" is so malleable that you can come up w/ "your own" understanding and live, eat and swear by that?? Well shit --- FREE UNDERSTANDINGS FOR EVERY1 -- GET 'EM WHILE THEY'RE HOT!!! "I'm sorry judge... MY UNDERSTANDING of the law was that murder is okay if you REAAALLLY had a bad day and the other person deserved it." "I'm sorry officer... my understanding that the speed limit was only if there were other cars around - since i285 was empty I figured 96mph was okay." The WORD should be THE WORD?? Not subject to "your raggedy ass understanding of it". Who are you that YOUR understanding is even worth sharing w/ some1 when they can be condemned to hell if you're wrong?? How does this not make sense to you?? You can't tell me that He can feed 5,000 w/ 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread and have the remaining be 7 baskets full (el oh el)... yet tell me that His word is so poorly written that each and every believer can have "their own" understanding of it. Just show me that you're not an idiot and you understand that.

But you according to you, you ONLY SUBSCRIBE TO THE IDEAS OF J'SON. Which means all theories of human interaction call you a fool as who you are is a direct product of the products of your experiences.

So we are products of our environment?? Okay -- so in that case I know business owner millionaires that should be gangbangers in jail. We are products of our environment... food for thought: If you were born and raised in Iran there is a 99% chance that you would be Muslim - hell, maybe even a radical. And you would fly that flag jUST as high and long as you fly this one. Am I correct? So by NO FAULT of their own --- all of the non-Christian types get the express train to hell for being born in the wrong country. Sweet.

I await another "well thought out" comic sketch from you...you make me laugh and cry like a good movie. If I could I would sell tickets and cut you in.

You know why I am laughing at you? B/c you make it easy... not ONCE have you made it where I need to roll up my sleeves, turn off Baby J and turn on J'son - NOT ONCE. I assure you -- you don't want that b/c make NO mistake about it, Reverand Harold Johnson (my grandad) and his colleagues are no match for me and neither are you. Not by a long shot. I mirror what I get... and so far I've seen nothing in you that makes me want to start thinking "for real". I'm a funny guy - so you'll have to forgive me if my personality shines through when I post, I like to keep things light sir. LOL. But I'm SURE that you can pull the meat out of my comments and address those. We should hang out sometime... I know some awesome churches that we can drive by and wave at.

[Master Shake]

?Why did you cut him off and then say that he had no answer?

I can try to answer that question, but you must first understand that we have different world views and to understand any answer from any person of faith you must first realize that they may have a completely different way of understanding the character of God.

I see lots of people posting the bashing the God who "sits with his arms folded and does not get involved, or the made to burn concept" but I think even from a non believer stand point it is inaccurate to come to that conclusion if you look at the totality of the Bible.

If you are going off of the faith of God as Christianity understands him, which is the only one that my world view can understand, then you have to look at the totality of his character and not a snapshot. The totality of God's character is a just, loving, jealous God who makes law and maintains his word. So first I have to say what I believe the Bible to be.

I believe that the Bible is completely about the redemption of men. I believe it starts where it starts because it is not intended to explain the how's of creation and evolution and all those things that people get caught on. and it is the fault of many of us Christian's that we try to turn the Bible into what it is not intended for. I believe that people ask the wrong questions of the Bible, which are illogical to ask. For instance, if you buy an xbox or playstation you would not expect the manual to have the schematics and diagrams for wiring and all its internal electrical components and drives because Microsoft and Sony don't give that information to you. You would only expect to be provide with information on how to set it up and basic system info. We often ask the Bible to tell us these types of specific things and it does not. It doesn't tell us the age of the earth or whether or not dinosaurs where around, etc etc.

Keeping that in mind lets go back to your question:
According to the Bible and what we know of the character of God (which is not everything) we do know that upon the onset of the law that god condemns us with, there is also the redemption that God supplies for us (christians believe) through the life of Jesus.

so if you are asking if people that are gay are in sin, I would say, yes, but no more than a straight person, because there are many more ways that we break the laws that God set out for us that is laid out all over the bible. But just as the person who is not homosexual has the ability for redemption through Christ (remember we are talking about the christian perspective) the same thing exists for the homosexual.

What I am saying is that in God's eyes it only takes disobedience. That could be in the form of taking from a forbidden tree or murder or sexual sin, or lying, etc etc. But it never stops there for the sinner, because the work that God does is not complete until Christ is crucified. Only then is the truth fullfilled in Gods promises to men. The promise was that he would provide us with life and with redemption and freedom from the entrapment of sin of which we could not survive.

so in my world view, the totality of who God is is shown in the way that he has decided to reveal his grace, mercy, justice and love to us. It is no surprise to us that we do not understand it all the time. also keep in mind that there are many questions that will be asked of the believer of which he should not be able to answer, does that make the persons faith less valid? No, if believers could provide answers to everything I would be much more concerned at the fact that the God we believe in, who is most high and powerful, is so easily defined by us. he is not, and nobody, the christian, the atheist, the muslim, should expect him to be easily defined or his ways easily understood.

ok, i cut him off cause he was studdering and was having trouble finding words to say.

but its like this though, god creates all people and living things on the earth, and it pretty much says in the bible, that being gay is a sin, well, if god created all people and planned out everything for that person, why would he intentionally create a person, just to turn around, and condemn that person to hell?

when i talked to the pastor about it, he kept saying God loves all people no matter what, and he said he wouldn't do that and he couldn't give me a response that made any sense, BUT if god created that person to come out like that, then he pretty much created that person just to send to hell.

a person doesn't just come to life and say "i'm gonna be gay". it just doesn't work like that. someone can't really chose something like that. even if that person is a die hard christian, he/she will still be sent to hell for being gay. so what is that person suppose to do to reach the gates of heaven? even if they lived their life out, following all the rules laid out before them, with the exception, that person is gay.

now, i have heard different theories from a philosopher professor, that god does give us the option to make our own choices, but he knows what choices you are going to make, so is that still the same as being able to make your own choice? i mean, he knows what path you are going to take, but does that still be considered as being able to make the choice for youself?

[sport_122]

ok, i cut him off cause he was studdering and was having trouble finding words to say.

but its like this though, god creates all people and living things on the earth, and it pretty much says in the bible, that being gay is a sin, well, if god created all people and planned out everything for that person, why would he intentionally create a person, just to turn around, and condemn that person to hell?

when i talked to the pastor about it, he kept saying God loves all people no matter what, and he said he wouldn't do that and he couldn't give me a response that made any sense, BUT if god created that person to come out like that, then he pretty much created that person just to send to hell.

a person doesn't just come to life and say "i'm gonna be gay". it just doesn't work like that. someone can't really chose something like that. even if that person is a die hard christian, he/she will still be sent to hell for being gay. so what is that person suppose to do to reach the gates of heaven? even if they lived their life out, following all the rules laid out before them, with the exception, that person is gay.

now, i have heard different theories from a philosopher professor, that god does give us the option to make our own choices, but he knows what choices you are going to make, so is that still the same as being able to make your own choice? i mean, he knows what path you are going to take, but does that still be considered as being able to make the choice for youself?

Did you read my entire post? It seems like a long answer to you, but your comments make it seem as though you never really wanted any person to answer that question.

You are using what is called observational selectivity to side step the problem with your bold statement. You are commenting on one part of the equation to try to make a point, when in fact Christians do not believe that condemnation is viewed in the way you portray it because you leave out one of the most important character traits of God, his redemption.

The way you state it means that "All have sin and All are going to hell." This is not the case and is a twisting of the truth of what the Bible teaches. You are using a false analogy based on what you "think" or "want" the bible to say vs what it really says. Meaning, you don't have to believe it, but at least have the decency to quote what its about correctly. If you really didn't want to have anyone answer then why did you ask the pastor in the first place? If someone does that to you more than likely you would think they were being an ass.

[Master Shake]

Did you read my entire post? It seems like a long answer to you, but your comments make it seem as though you never really wanted any person to answer that question.

You are using what is called observational selectivity to side step the problem with your bold statement. You are commenting on one part of the equation to try to make a point, when in fact Christians do not believe that condemnation is viewed in the way you portray it because you leave out one of the most important character traits of God, his redemption.

The way you state it means that "All have sin and All are going to hell." This is not the case and is a twisting of the truth of what the Bible teaches. You are using a false analogy based on what you "think" or "want" the bible to say vs what it really says. Meaning, you don't have to believe it, but at least have the decency to quote what its about correctly. If you really didn't want to have anyone answer then why did you ask the pastor in the first place? If someone does that to you more than likely you would think they were being an ass.

i'm not saying all that sin are going to hell, just the one particular subject. everyone sins, weather they want to admit it or not. and everyone must as for forgiveness. but for those that are gay, they ask for forgiveness, but they are still in sin for their way of life, did god create that person to send them to hell?

[sport_122]

i'm not saying all that sin are going to hell, just the one particular subject. everyone sins, weather they want to admit it or not. and everyone must as for forgiveness. but for those that are gay, they ask for forgiveness, but they are still in sin for their way of life, did god create that person to send them to hell?

The simple answer, is that there are people on this planet who are homosexual who will not go to hell based on the bible, but this is through Christ. Also, there is a difference between struggling with sin and giving in or giving yourself over to it. The christian struggles with sin as a desire to live as one who has been redeemed (think, felon who just got out of prison trying to make it without continuing in the activity that got them into prison in the first place)

Think of alcoholism. There is evidence to show that some people are wired to be alcoholics (in fact...I think I am). That does not mean that they are ALL drunks, but given the right situation they could easily become that. I don't drink because of this, but I know drinking is wrong for me based on my family history and my drinking history (I was fortunate enough to stop early in my life). With alcoholism it is a constant struggle. Sometimes they are sober(long term) and sometimes they are relapsing, but the thing that lays the problem for their illness is when they are relapsing. An alcoholic is not necessarily always drunk and always looking for a drink, but it is when they are acting on the illness or embracing it and ignoring it as wrong and dangerous that they are doing wrong. I view these two things the same. both are programmed into who you are, and both are dangerous if we don't realize that there is a difference between struggling/wrestling with our illness (sin) and giving into or giving ourselves over to it.

So I believe the absolute wrong thing for us to do is to accept it as okay. this is my personal view based on believing this is an illness much like alcoholism or any of the many other addictions. But this goes into my personal views on how the psychology works and I think we (western nations) are doing a terrible thing to turn homosexuality into a thing of pop culture. but this is a much different topic than your question.

[DrivenMind]

The simple answer, is that there are people on this planet who are homosexual who will not go to hell based on the bible, but this is through Christ. Also, there is a difference between struggling with sin and giving in or giving yourself over to it. The christian struggles with sin as a desire to live as one who has been redeemed (think, felon who just got out of prison trying to make it without continuing in the activity that got them into prison in the first place)

Think of alcoholism. There is evidence to show that some people are wired to be alcoholics (in fact...I think I am). That does not mean that they are ALL drunks, but given the right situation they could easily become that. I don't drink because of this, but I know drinking is wrong for me based on my family history and my drinking history (I was fortunate enough to stop early in my life). With alcoholism it is a constant struggle. Sometimes they are sober(long term) and sometimes they are relapsing, but the thing that lays the problem for their illness is when they are relapsing. An alcoholic is not necessarily always drunk and always looking for a drink, but it is when they are acting on the illness or embracing it and ignoring it as wrong and dangerous that they are doing wrong. I view these two things the same. both are programmed into who you are, and both are dangerous if we don't realize that there is a difference between struggling/wrestling with our illness (sin) and giving into or giving ourselves over to it.

So I believe the absolute wrong thing for us to do is to accept it as okay. this is my personal view based on believing this is an illness much like alcoholism or any of the many other addictions. But this goes into my personal views on how the psychology works and I think we (western nations) are doing a terrible thing to turn homosexuality into a thing of pop culture. but this is a much different topic than your question.

Doesn't the first paragraph depend entirely on who's translating or interpreting scripture? One of the things I find most disturbing about organized religion is the fact that so many people seem to believe there is some sort of objective way of knowing exactly what god meant in his many books. The fact that so many people are able to sit down and discuss such a subjective subject believing their conversation will yield some objective truths is really quite a terrifying thing when you get down to it.

And say what you will about the Bible being a handy reference for morality, and this may very well have been its original purpose. However it is worth nothing that there has never been anything absolute about moral truths.

[BABY J]

out of all questions i have ever wondered, that one question was the only one i asked. ever since then i just learned to take it how it is, and i'll find out my answers when i leave this earth. cause really, i don't think a pastor could give me the answers i'm looking for that make sense.

Are you an astronaut? If not - you're never leaving this Earth.