Fuck off, pansy.Originally Posted by Tran
Fuck off, pansy.
its like me saying everything you believe is wrong. it has nothing to do with me being a "pansy". it just shows that you can't accept the fact that what other people believe isn't the same as your views and you think you are smarter than them because of it.
Haha, I do accept the fact that other people believe in christ. Shit, my parents are hardcore religious nutcakes. I don't hate 'em for it. I just don't like when people preach about the bible like they know what they're babbling about when in reality don't have a clue.
I've done this before and I'm not kidding. I've asked a pastor - questions about the bible and he could not answer them without looking in the bible. I asked him questions and he didn't have the answers to them. Haaha, I'm not bashing you for your beliefs, tran. You seem to be the only person who has taken my posts in this thread serious which is why I'm only fucking with you. To get to you - get it? Haha, troLLed!
i question people's beliefs is one thing, but to bash them for it, is wrong. like, thats one thing that you really shouldn't do.
i've questioned a pastor at a church i used to go to once and i tried to keep it questions to where it was just me and the pastor that knew about it. well someone over heard it, and he was fired cause the people of that church couldn't believe what he told me and all the members of that church, quit going. and this is the first time i've spoken about it since. it was about being gay a sin. but here's the question i asked...
me-so god has plans for everyone he creates and knows exactly all the choices that person will make thru-out their life, correct?
pastor- yes, this is true.
me- and being gay is a sin, correct?
pastor- yes.
me-and for that sin, you are condemn to hell for all eternity?
pastor- yes, but what exactly are you wanting to know?
me- why does God create someone, just to comdemn them to hell?
pastor- he doesn't do that he...(i cut him off short)
me- but if he creates a person and knows all the actions and choices that person is gonna make, and they turn out to be a gay, then why was that person create if he knowingly was gonna send that person to hell?
that pastor couldn't answer the question.
out of all questions i have ever wondered, that one question was the only one i asked. ever since then i just learned to take it how it is, and i'll find out my answers when i leave this earth. cause really, i don't think a pastor could give me the answers i'm looking for that make sense.
?Why did you cut him off and then say that he had no answer?
I can try to answer that question, but you must first understand that we have different world views and to understand any answer from any person of faith you must first realize that they may have a completely different way of understanding the character of God.
I see lots of people posting the bashing the God who "sits with his arms folded and does not get involved, or the made to burn concept" but I think even from a non believer stand point it is inaccurate to come to that conclusion if you look at the totality of the Bible.
If you are going off of the faith of God as Christianity understands him, which is the only one that my world view can understand, then you have to look at the totality of his character and not a snapshot. The totality of God's character is a just, loving, jealous God who makes law and maintains his word. So first I have to say what I believe the Bible to be.
I believe that the Bible is completely about the redemption of men. I believe it starts where it starts because it is not intended to explain the how's of creation and evolution and all those things that people get caught on. and it is the fault of many of us Christian's that we try to turn the Bible into what it is not intended for. I believe that people ask the wrong questions of the Bible, which are illogical to ask. For instance, if you buy an xbox or playstation you would not expect the manual to have the schematics and diagrams for wiring and all its internal electrical components and drives because Microsoft and Sony don't give that information to you. You would only expect to be provide with information on how to set it up and basic system info. We often ask the Bible to tell us these types of specific things and it does not. It doesn't tell us the age of the earth or whether or not dinosaurs where around, etc etc.
Keeping that in mind lets go back to your question:
According to the Bible and what we know of the character of God (which is not everything) we do know that upon the onset of the law that god condemns us with, there is also the redemption that God supplies for us (christians believe) through the life of Jesus.
so if you are asking if people that are gay are in sin, I would say, yes, but no more than a straight person, because there are many more ways that we break the laws that God set out for us that is laid out all over the bible. But just as the person who is not homosexual has the ability for redemption through Christ (remember we are talking about the christian perspective) the same thing exists for the homosexual.
What I am saying is that in God's eyes it only takes disobedience. That could be in the form of taking from a forbidden tree or murder or sexual sin, or lying, etc etc. But it never stops there for the sinner, because the work that God does is not complete until Christ is crucified. Only then is the truth fullfilled in Gods promises to men. The promise was that he would provide us with life and with redemption and freedom from the entrapment of sin of which we could not survive.
so in my world view, the totality of who God is is shown in the way that he has decided to reveal his grace, mercy, justice and love to us. It is no surprise to us that we do not understand it all the time. also keep in mind that there are many questions that will be asked of the believer of which he should not be able to answer, does that make the persons faith less valid? No, if believers could provide answers to everything I would be much more concerned at the fact that the God we believe in, who is most high and powerful, is so easily defined by us. he is not, and nobody, the christian, the atheist, the muslim, should expect him to be easily defined or his ways easily understood.
"Totality of the bible"? LMFAO!!! Are you serious? There are theists who have spent 50 - 60 - 70 and 80 years "figuring" out the bible... and they have but put a DENT in it... bc it's written in a circlular fashion BY DESIGN to keep you hunched over your kitchen table w/ a NIV, King James Version, West Side Amplified Holy Crap Version, a dictionary, thesaurus, the internet, some dude name bubba, 2 D batteries, a gem-clip, a pack of Twizzlers and your grandma to break down 1 fucking paragraph which in itself was even improperly translated. LOL. I find it quite odd that of all people, "YOU" have the ability to answer a question about homosexuality b/c you understand the "totality of the bible." Holy shit, you're the 1st... some1 get this guy a glass of water so he can walk on it.
THIS is where you fail (again). The bible can be SOO specific about the EXACT amount one should give for tithes - not 9%, not 11 - but 10!! It can tell you the EXACTING measurements for the Ark... but now it's conveniently not a book of exacting specifications.You people kill me.
What should further let you know that you fail is that you have to say "your view" when you are talking about a book that should have a VERY much defined "stance". For you to base your life on such a novel, why do NO TWO believers interpret it the same? I actually don't even want an answer... but you'd think that THE WORD OF GOD would be exacting and unwaivering, infallable. I mean... we've had "a few years" to iron out the wrinkles ya know.
Really? So why do verses like this exist? Leviticus 20:13 - this tells me that homosexual activity is held to a higher standard of WRONG than simple "lying" (as u stated above). There are many better examples of what should happen to a man who lays w/ another man this as well but I am sleepy... LOL. But since you have the "totality of the bible" figured out I'm sure you know those scriptures. ALREADY, listening to you will have some guy who is dealing w/ homsexuality thinking "this isn't that bad --- sin is sin" when in face even the BIBLE disagrees w/ you. Congrats on having some1 else's blood on YOUR hands. To all of you wanna be soul-winners out there remeber this. If you are not SURGICAL w/ this biblical/religious shit then it's prob best not to say ANYTHING AT ALL lest you inadvertantly send some1 to hell on your watch.
You do this all the time. You say He speaks to you -- this ALL KNOWING OMNIPOTENT being "speaks" to you? WOW! You really think that you and all other believers have the antenna and other receptive media required to communicate w/ such a being? If there was a God and he was as Billy-Bad-Ass as you say 1) why would he talk to YOU (lol)... and 2) Your fucking head would explode even if tried to whisper. Who do you think YOU are that He would waste time speaking to you? You got THAT much shit figured out about this rock that you can "hear" God? Amazing. Can you speak to a horse using it's language? What about a pig? What about a dolphin? Then what makes you think you can communicate w/ the supernatural... and if you can, what makes you think it'd want to communicate w/ YOU?
I actually think that if there is a higher being (i really don't give a fuck - I'm here, THAT is what is real to me) he dropped us off here and left the rest up to us and we are failing miserably. PERIOD. He is NOT speaking to any1. He is NOT "guiding" any1. He is not making moves that impact your measly little life just b/c you bow down on by your bed every night. Swing and a miss.
Last edited by BABY J; 06-06-2009 at 09:49 AM.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
"Totality of the bible"? LMFAO!!! Are you serious? There are theists who have spent 50 - 60 - 70 and 80 years "figuring" out the bible... and they have but put a DENT in it... bc it's written in a circlular fashion BY DESIGN to keep you hunched over your kitchen table w/ a NIV, King James Version, West Side Amplified Holy Crap Version, a dictionary, thesaurus, the internet, some dude name bubba, 2 D batteries, a gem-clip, a pack of Twizzlers and your grandma to break down 1 fucking paragraph which in itself was even improperly translated. LOL. I find it quite odd that of all people, "YOU" have the ability to answer a question about homosexuality b/c you understand the "totality of the bible." Holy shit, you're the 1st... some1 get this guy a glass of water so he can walk on it.
THIS is where you fail (again). The bible can be SOO specific about the EXACT amount one should give for tithes - not 9%, not 11 - but 10!! It can tell you the EXACTING measurements for the Ark... but now it's conveniently not a book of exacting specifications.
What should further let you know that you fail is that you have to say "your view" when you are talking about a book that should have a VERY much defined "stance". For you to base your life on such a novel, why do NO TWO believers interpret it the same? I actually don't even want an answer... but you'd think that THE WORD OF GOD would be exacting and unwaivering, infallable. I mean... we've had "a few years" to iron out the wrinkles ya know.
Really? So why do verses like this exist? Leviticus 20:13 - this tells me that homosexual activity is held to a higher standard of WRONG than simple "lying" (as u stated above). There are many better examples of what should happen to a man who lays w/ another man this as well but I am sleepy... LOL. But since you have the "totality of the bible" figured out I'm sure you know those scriptures. ALREADY, listening to you will have some guy who is dealing w/ homsexuality thinking "this isn't that bad --- sin is sin" when in face even the BIBLE disagrees w/ you. Congrats on having some1 else's blood on YOUR hands. To all of you wanna be soul-winners out there remeber this. If you are not SURGICAL w/ this biblical/religious shit then it's prob best not to say ANYTHING AT ALL lest you inadvertantly send some1 to hell on your watch.
You do this all the time. You say He speaks to you -- this ALL KNOWING OMNIPOTENT being "speaks" to you? WOW! You really think that you and all other believers have the antenna and other receptive media required to communicate w/ such a being? If there was a God and he was as Billy-Bad-Ass as you say 1) why would he talk to YOU (lol)... and 2) Your fucking head would explode even if tried to whisper. Who do you think YOU are that He would waste time speaking to you? You got THAT much shit figured out about this rock that you can "hear" God? Amazing. Can you speak to a horse using it's language? What about a pig? What about a dolphin? Then what makes you think you can communicate w/ the supernatural... and if you can, what makes you think it'd want to communicate w/ YOU?
I actually think that if there is a higher being (i really don't give a fuck - I'm here, THAT is what is real to me) he dropped us off here and left the rest up to us and we are failing miserably. PERIOD. He is NOT speaking to any1. He is NOT "guiding" any1. He is not making moves that impact your measly little life just b/c you bow down on by your bed every night. Swing and a miss.
BTW...Ever since you failed to add any substance or reason to any of your posts (except the UFO one), I really can't take anything you say seriously because I don't think you are a legit debater, but you are a mocker and scoffer. You are not Dawkins, you are a hitchens, lacking good solid reason for your ideas, save for the emotional disagreements tout, you reduce yourself to elementary school yard ridicule.
You need to read my post and stop trying to read INTO my posts. You do not understand my worldview therefor you cannot comprehend and make reasonable deductions on anything I say. But you have given me your worldview in a previous post of which you told me that everything revolves around you and preservation of you. (without even a consideration to your own family, yet you would suggest that your worldview makes for a better world...)
You are again on of those types of people who claim logic and reason, and even have the incredible ability to tell me that "my view" is wrong and that to have to state things in "my view" is a joke and yet you turn around and tell us what "you think"
so do you or do you not think based on "your view"? Because you have often said that you are only concerned about yourself and nothing else matters remember "j'son works for what j'son wants, when j'son wants it" remember that? You said it so I would assume that much like my post did say, I can only attempt to add understanding to a concern based on MY UNDERSTANDING of the way things are based on my worldview which is founded on a compilation of evidence.
But you according to you, you ONLY SUBSCRIBE TO THE IDEAS OF J'SON. Which means all theories of human interaction call you a fool as who you are is a direct product of the products of your experiences. But it doesn't matter to you because you only believe in J'son...
Yup I fail, but I would rather fail being who I am with a logical reason to my thoughts. than to be completely fake with the emotional tendency to live only to stroke my own ego. If my existence and the existence of my way of thinking is sad then yours is an abomination to all things.
I await another "well thought out" comic sketch from you...you make me laugh and cry like a good movie. If I could I would sell tickets and cut you in.
ok, i cut him off cause he was studdering and was having trouble finding words to say.
but its like this though, god creates all people and living things on the earth, and it pretty much says in the bible, that being gay is a sin, well, if god created all people and planned out everything for that person, why would he intentionally create a person, just to turn around, and condemn that person to hell?
when i talked to the pastor about it, he kept saying God loves all people no matter what, and he said he wouldn't do that and he couldn't give me a response that made any sense, BUT if god created that person to come out like that, then he pretty much created that person just to send to hell.
a person doesn't just come to life and say "i'm gonna be gay". it just doesn't work like that. someone can't really chose something like that. even if that person is a die hard christian, he/she will still be sent to hell for being gay. so what is that person suppose to do to reach the gates of heaven? even if they lived their life out, following all the rules laid out before them, with the exception, that person is gay.
now, i have heard different theories from a philosopher professor, that god does give us the option to make our own choices, but he knows what choices you are going to make, so is that still the same as being able to make your own choice? i mean, he knows what path you are going to take, but does that still be considered as being able to make the choice for youself?
Did you read my entire post? It seems like a long answer to you, but your comments make it seem as though you never really wanted any person to answer that question.
You are using what is called observational selectivity to side step the problem with your bold statement. You are commenting on one part of the equation to try to make a point, when in fact Christians do not believe that condemnation is viewed in the way you portray it because you leave out one of the most important character traits of God, his redemption.
The way you state it means that "All have sin and All are going to hell." This is not the case and is a twisting of the truth of what the Bible teaches. You are using a false analogy based on what you "think" or "want" the bible to say vs what it really says. Meaning, you don't have to believe it, but at least have the decency to quote what its about correctly. If you really didn't want to have anyone answer then why did you ask the pastor in the first place? If someone does that to you more than likely you would think they were being an ass.
Are you an astronaut? If not - you're never leaving this Earth.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
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