144,000 going to heaven...

[Jaimecbr900]

your taking my words and twisting them now.. i point blank said "what good is your 10% if your only helping yourselves", which was my comment to him stating they use their church money to fund church activities.

Paul, you're my boy and all, but you're double talking now.

How much more clearer can YOU be when you say that, "what good is your 10% (i.e. WHY donate) if you're only helping yourselves(i.e. noone else)"????? That's pretty clear to me what you're saying. If you want to clarify it some way, clarify it but don't try and say I'M twisting it, because it's pretty clear.

BTW, the "10%" as you put it goes for ALL church functions. As I previously mentioned that includes day-to-day operations, charity, missionary work, community work, etc. The offering plate money does NOT only go to fund church only activities. It does go towards that, but that's only ONE of many destinations the money goes to.

the point is, you shouldn't have to give a 1$ to a church.... $$$ is the root of all evil and its amazing that they are asking for it everytime they open their doors.

Name a bank that gives ANYONE money to build for free. Not one, right? Now go one more step; Name a utility company that gives away their product. Not one, right? One more step; Name a city that doesn't charge property taxes on prime piece of commercial real estate. Not one, right?

So how in the world do you propose, besides not having ANY churches at all, to be able to have a place for people to congregate together and worship???? They may be exempt from paying SOME taxes, but they're certainly not exempt from paying ALL taxes. Some of the requirements of being a charitable organization by law makes them have to use outside agencies to keep certain things fair. Those agencies damn sure don't do their work for FREE. Who should pay for that? Tax payers? Maybe they should since we pay for a ton of worthless crap already anyway, this would actually be a welcomed change to that monotony.

My point is that a church is a self sufficient entity. The gov't doesn't support it, the members do. I agree that if a church is all about the "money", then it certainly is not a church to be associated with. But certainly NOT ALL churches are strictly about the "money" as you'd like people to believe. That's generalizing. That's like saying ALL VW's are slow. The majority are, but we both know that not ALL are, so that statement would be false. Your statement is the same way.

[4dmin]

Paul, you're my boy and all, but you're double talking now.

How much more clearer can YOU be when you say that, "what good is your 10% (i.e. WHY donate) if you're only helping yourselves(i.e. noone else)"????? That's pretty clear to me what you're saying. If you want to clarify it some way, clarify it but don't try and say I'M twisting it, because it's pretty clear.

BTW, the "10%" as you put it goes for ALL church functions. As I previously mentioned that includes day-to-day operations, charity, missionary work, community work, etc. The offering plate money does NOT only go to fund church only activities. It does go towards that, but that's only ONE of many destinations the money goes to.






Name a bank that gives ANYONE money to build for free. Not one, right? Now go one more step; Name a utility company that gives away their product. Not one, right? One more step; Name a city that doesn't charge property taxes on prime piece of commercial real estate. Not one, right?

So how in the world do you propose, besides not having ANY churches at all, to be able to have a place for people to congregate together and worship???? They may be exempt from paying SOME taxes, but they're certainly not exempt from paying ALL taxes. Some of the requirements of being a charitable organization by law makes them have to use outside agencies to keep certain things fair. Those agencies damn sure don't do their work for FREE. Who should pay for that? Tax payers? Maybe they should since we pay for a ton of worthless crap already anyway, this would actually be a welcomed change to that monotony.

My point is that a church is a self sufficient entity. The gov't doesn't support it, the members do. I agree that if a church is all about the "money", then it certainly is not a church to be associated with. But certainly NOT ALL churches are strictly about the "money" as you'd like people to believe. That's generalizing. That's like saying ALL VW's are slow. The majority are, but we both know that not ALL are, so that statement would be false. Your statement is the same way.

jamie your still twisting my words to suit your comments... re read the post... he posted what they spend money, i merely asked a question of how you turning it into me making a statement. you are reading way to much into what i said. your smarter than this i would think you would see that.

obviously life isn't free and things cost money... but why is it that you need a million dollar facilities to worship. i'm sure jesus lived in a palace.... com'on jamie your in the mortgage business, you know the cost of land/building... your trying to tell me some of the churches in the metro area need the facilities they have built? i know churches w/ clubs in them w/ 75k audio setups, with cafes, gyms bigger than your local schools, etc... that is not excess???

seriously some of you are way more closed minded than i thought, you are quite blinded by your faith. thats cool if you want to believe whatever i don't down you for it, but don't act stupid, you and i both know religion is a multi billion dollar business if it wasn't we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Jaimecbr900]

obviously life isn't free and things cost money... but why is it that you need a million dollar facilities to worship. i'm sure jesus lived in a palace.... com'on jamie your in the mortgage business, you know the cost of land/building... your trying to tell me some of the churches in the metro area need the facilities they have built? i know churches w/ clubs in them w/ 75k audio setups, with cafes, gyms bigger than your local schools, etc... that is not excess???

You're right about that. Cafes and clubs and things like that are excessive. I don't see how that serves a church-like effort. And you are absolutely correct in that is not the way Christianity is intended. Give you all that.

Those type of churches are exactly the churches I don't like myself. I wouldn't attend nor support them. Is their message bad? I don't know because I don't go there.

I also know that is the exception and not the rule. My church doesn't have a cafe or a club. It may have a gym and some sound equipment, but both are used for ton of things INCLUDING community work. I've only gone personally to one big church that had some of the things you're mentioning, but not quite the cafe/club thing. I know they probably exist, but I also know that the vast majority of churches not only couldn't afford to do that, but also would refuse to do that. That's my point. To hear you talk, if people didn't know any better, they'd assume ALL churches are these multi million dollar conglomerate magnates that shower their own leaders ala Jim Baker and Tammyesque. I'm here to tell you that's simply not true. Yes, it does exist. Yes, it has always been there. Yes, people take advantage of a captive audience to fleece them. BUT that is the exception and NOT the rule.

The majority of church leaders (generic for priest, rev, pastor, etc.) live meek lives and humble existances. My preacher drives a plain jane Honda Accord, and his wife a mini van. That's it. Your house is worth more than theirs. The church may have a million dollar budget, but it's certainly not spent on them unless they are hiding the money somewhere, which I personally doubt.

[Ncturnal]

jamie your still twisting my words to suit your comments... re read the post... he posted what they spend money, i merely asked a question of how you turning it into me making a statement. you are reading way to much into what i said. your smarter than this i would think you would see that.

obviously life isn't free and things cost money... but why is it that you need a million dollar facilities to worship. i'm sure jesus lived in a palace.... com'on jamie your in the mortgage business, you know the cost of land/building... your trying to tell me some of the churches in the metro area need the facilities they have built? i know churches w/ clubs in them w/ 75k audio setups, with cafes, gyms bigger than your local schools, etc... that is not excess???

seriously some of you are way more closed minded than i thought, you are quite blinded by your faith. thats cool if you want to believe whatever i don't down you for it, but don't act stupid, you and i both know religion is a multi billion dollar business if it wasn't we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Another useless factoid: Did you know that the Catholic church is the largest land-owner in the world?

I have to agree...religion=big business in many cases.