Tracy... not a church but a great human being!!!!
but your close... the "church" is not a building... it is the people who follow Christ. we just have church in a building.
Tracy... not a church but a great human being!!!!
but your close... the "church" is not a building... it is the people who follow Christ. we just have church in a building.
i understand where u are coming from tracy bc ive been there. the reason there are differences in churches is bc the bible tells u in the last days there will be false profits. u have to go to a church where they can prove to what they are saying is true. explain to you how what they are saying wrks and show u were they found their info in the bible. lik ethe church i go to, every time i stop going for a while and come back, everythign he talks about is like we are one on one. bc he talks about everything ive been going through since i havent been going to church. i swear its like he had somebody spying on me. i asked my mom, sister, and everybody ive ever invited to church with me and they get the same feeling.Originally Posted by tracy
we just need to have a sit down and i'll try to explain things to you.... this posting crap is getting old... lol... pm me if your at all interested. if not just do what the bible says like i said it explains all...
it was told to me the bilbe was "inspired" by God. not just somebody got somebright ideas and started making stuff up off the top of his head like most ppl try to make it seem.
Tracy... not a church but a great human being!!!!
but your close... the "church" is not a building... it is the people who follow Christ. we just have church in a building.
OK. Then why can't I just be a great human being and believe that there is some sort of God until I figure it out. If I die in the meantime...I'm sure that God just wouldn't send me to "hell" because I was a little confused.
I can believe that it was insipred by God! That's really what I have been trying to say. I believe that some of the things did happen. Just not to the degree that people say. It's like a (dare I say) tall tale that has a moral at the end of the story...meant to teach lessons.
i personally think if u really dnt know and God see ur trying to find out the truth. i dnt think hell let u go to hell for that. but u have to be diligent in seeking him as said in the bible.
Where could it have been better spent? Donating it all to people that like farm boy only think its funny to make fun of Jesus? Using that theory, why spend millions to build new schools then? Num nuts that don't go to school would say that's a waste too because THEY aren't using it, huh?
What you should be looking at is how much money the church gets from YOUR POCKET and how much it puts out w/o a single dime from YOU. It doesn't receive money FROM the gov't to sustain itself and pay it's bills. Can you say that about big companies who receive subsidies to survive and even line their own pockets???
People and companies CHARGE churches for their services. Water, power, gas, food, repairs, child care, etc. Where do you suppose that money should come from? The gov't? It doesn't. It comes from MY pocket, which I gladly and VOLUNTARILY give in order to support that which supports me. Where do you think the money to buy food for soup kitchens and donations comes from??? Again, members like me that feel that's money well spent.
To be honest, I don't see any of the aethiest going down and serving at a soup kitchen or donation thousands to help their neighbor or volunteering their time to teach to disadvantaged children. So until you do......don't mock those that do.
and i like how you stated $$$ used for youth events for church members... what good is your 10% if your not helping anyone but yourselfs. why do you need to get any money at all, its a tax free org anyway. you need multi million dollar facilities to conduct worship??? please explain how haveing gyms, sounds systems, etc. are needed in church???
If you have 1000 people that WANT to visit your church, how would you propose to be able to do that? In a mall parking lot? Having people relay what the speaker is saying upfront all the way to the people in the back?
We needed loudspeakers and a mic to call out raffle tickets at a car show that had less than 100 people standing around waiting to look at their tickets. Why is that "necessary", yet a permanent place to worship need to be primitive? To hear you tell it, we should all have tent churches and donate all the money to non-appreciative people.
Reality is that a church is a permanent place for people to worship. Permanent means it has to built with rocks and wood. If it's a 100 square foot shack or a 10,000 square foot auditorium, it doesn't matter as long as the right message is given.
BTW, if a church is not entitled to any modern luxuries, then why do you drive a turbo car instead of a horse and buggy????
tracy:
you can be there's nothing holding you back from being whatever you want to be.... but by the questions your asking... YOU want more than that... i'm just here to help....
LMAO....again for some reason you THINK your opinions and uneducated views are fact. I've mentioned this before so I don't know how many times I'm gonna have to keep doing it. You sound like the typical wife beating, alcoholic Christian who as no other choice but to believe, b/c if you don't your entire life would have been a waste. You've been suckered into something you haven't actually seen or felt physically. Much like your pseudo college degree. Hey Santa has been around for a few hundred years why not worship him? All you do is cut and paste articles from other sites and for some reason feel like you've shed some light on religion. Your rants are along the same lines as every other religious zealout. You ask where's our proof he doesn't exist, but you have none to validate your claims. I've been reading the threads for the past couple of weeks and you've posted NOTHING that most people haven't already mulled over. Try posting something original and thought-provoking instead of this meaningless drivel you call sentences. Also, try and lay off Google for all you one-stop religious quetions. Let's put that college degree to good use...LoL.Nobody did. Difference is some people appreciate it, while others like yourself waste it. Your cross to bear.
You need to read the other 15 threads on this very subject in this very forum. We have been intelligently debating this very subject for quite a while.
BTW, what "proof" do you have that he DOESN'T exist???? It's a rhetorical question BTW because I already know the answer.
People like you will never have any "proof" that satisfies you because you are looking for it with your eyes closed. You are trying to look for the smoking gun 2000 years after it was fired.
Perhaps maybe when you are making that $100k right after you graduate from college you should invest in opening up your own "church of the truth according to farm boy" since you are so wise and it's such a "business". But wait, that would involve management and financial where-with-all which if memory serves me correct YOU said was worthless courses of studies so I guess YOU wouldn't have that.....
Call me a "holly roller" all you want. Think that going to church is about the offering plate and not about cleansing your soul. Think that you have all the answers when you don't even know the questions yet. Think that you are so much smarter than billions of people that truly have believed over the last 2000 yrs, all of which obviously were too stupid to figure out that it was all a great lie orchestrated by priests to line their pockets and molest kids. Once again, you've proven that someone with so much potential can still miss the forest for the trees.
What's funny is that aethiests must think they're pretty dumb. Why??? Because single cell organisms w/o a brain are smarter than they are since they supposedly created LIFE and we as measly humans have never been able to duplicate that feat. Go figure.
farm teg, have u read revelations in the bible?
Very good and that's the whole point.
People want to find DNA and fossils and scrolls to "believe" that something is true. When all along the whole purpose is to convey a message. HOW you get that message is not as important as you GETTING IT to begin with.
If I tell YOU that a car runs 10.0 in the 1/4....YOU know that means that the car has a powerful engine and a big turbo or lots of nitrous with some sticky tires and maybe even a good driver. I tell that same thing to MY wife and she is likely to say, "cool, that sounds fast...". The basic MESSAGE is the same, that's a fast car, how yall both came up to the same conclusion was totally different. So the message was what was truly important and was delivered to both. You can microdisect it to death and it's still a fast car, but there are always gonna be people who will still want more "proof" before admitting what everyone else already knows. The only problem is that you keep looking for that "proof" but tommorow is not promised to anyone remember that.
Ummm... I do! Not sure if I'm athiest or not, but I do a ton for the community. I always have. More than what I listed above....including going to the soup kitchens to serve the homeless during Christmas or Thanksgiving. I taught the eldery how to read at my Grandma's job at a nursing home. I actually went to college (which I didn't finish, but I will someday) to teach special ed. I have 1 semester left and I can be a substitute teacher.....(imagine that). I think I'm going to go tomorrow to volunteer to help the Ludacris foundation clean up the apartments for the hurricane victims. If you ever want to volunteer with me, give me a shout. I'm serious. Not just being spiteful.
You truly are a sad little man.
Speaking of not saying anything....what thought provoking and new idea have YOU brought to this debate???? That although YOU have ZERO proof yourself that God does NOT exist.....you will fall over your own tongue trying to convince others he doesn't....
How original is that???? :jerkit:
And you sir sound like the typical egotistical young know-it-all that thinks that because they grew pubes they are suddenly a man.
I would be very glad to come out and help you anytime you'd like. You've got my number. Give me a call whenever you need extra hands. Seriously.
BTW, my previous comments were not directed towards you.
You truly are a sad little man.
Speaking of not saying anything....what thought provoking and new idea have YOU brought to this debate???? That although YOU have ZERO proof yourself that God does NOT exist.....you will fall over your own tongue trying to convince others he doesn't....
How original is that???? :jerkit:
And you sir sound like the typical egotistical young know-it-all that thinks that because they grew pubes they are suddenly a man.
LOL great quote.. that last one.... I like that... LOL teh funny..
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
You truly are a sad little man.
Speaking of not saying anything....what thought provoking and new idea have YOU brought to this debate???? That although YOU have ZERO proof yourself that God does NOT exist.....you will fall over your own tongue trying to convince others he doesn't....
How original is that???? :jerkit:
And you sir sound like the typical egotistical young know-it-all that thinks that because they grew pubes they are suddenly a man.
Try keeping it on topic old man. I know life has wronged you in some way but try not to take it out on those who already know you're pathetic. Ranting online about how intelligent you are does not help your cause. You chose the mortgage industry as a career so we already you can't be too bright.
Try keeping it on topic old man. I know life has wronged you in some way but try not to take it out on those who already know you're pathetic. Ranting online about how intelligent you are does not help your cause. You chose the mortgage industry as a career so we already you can't be too bright.
When you're ready to compare paystubs farm boy, let me know.
LOL!!!
thats pretty cool tracy. as a matter fo fact my mom teaches special ed. she wanted to be a lawyer but thats another lng story.
I know it wasn't directed toward me. I'm just saying that if I'm an athiest...I do help the community.
LoL..that has to be dumbest thing you have posted. When did you go out and poll the religious affiliation of every volunteer? I didn't know that the Red Cross and the Salvation Army inquired about your religious devotion. I know plenty of agnostic/atheists that volunteer time and money to worthy causes, including me. I think you're better off in "heaven" than on this planet...LoL.
Hey genius....I was referring to people in the thread that were implying that churches do nothing for anyone else.
You quote me out of context and you think you got me......try again.
boy this topic has gone to shitHey genius....I was referring to people in the thread that were implying that churches do nothing for anyone else.
You quote me out of context and you think you got me......try again.
who ever implied that all churches do nothing for others.??? i do find it funny you think only christians would be in soup kitchens or helping the needy. who is thinking small now? by the way i donated 3x to the Hurricane relief and i have checked in to giving someone a place to stay. i'm not christian
Tell fag boy to get off my nuts and we can get back to adult conversations.boy this topic has gone to shit
You didn't imply anything, you said it point blank when you said that churches only do events and programs to "benefit only themselves"......who ever implied that all churches do nothing for others.???
Did you not say that?????? What else did you mean then if not the obvious?
your taking my words and twisting them now.. i point blank said "what good is your 10% if your only helping yourselves", which was my comment to him stating they use their church money to fund church activities.Tell fag boy to get off my nuts and we can get back to adult conversations.
You didn't imply anything, you said it point blank when you said that churches only do events and programs to "benefit only themselves"......
Did you not say that?????? What else did you mean then if not the obvious?
the point is, you shouldn't have to give a 1$ to a church.... $$$ is the root of all evil and its amazing that they are asking for it everytime they open their doors.
ok.... 1. they don't force you to give... 2. where did i ever say we only use the money for church events.... 3. sending unsaved youth to a huge christian event is a great thing to spend money on.... (the event winterfest... i was one of those kids) 4. i've stated plenty of times that our church has helped our community in plenty of ways. so tell me again how that's only spending money on the church??? let's all start giving you money and see what u do with it... how much will you help your community with that money... or how many new parts would your car get????
you have no idea how a church really functions because if you did you would understand y they take up an "offering".
Paul, you're my boy and all, but you're double talking now.
How much more clearer can YOU be when you say that, "what good is your 10% (i.e. WHY donate) if you're only helping yourselves(i.e. noone else)"????? That's pretty clear to me what you're saying. If you want to clarify it some way, clarify it but don't try and say I'M twisting it, because it's pretty clear.
BTW, the "10%" as you put it goes for ALL church functions. As I previously mentioned that includes day-to-day operations, charity, missionary work, community work, etc. The offering plate money does NOT only go to fund church only activities. It does go towards that, but that's only ONE of many destinations the money goes to.
the point is, you shouldn't have to give a 1$ to a church.... $$$ is the root of all evil and its amazing that they are asking for it everytime they open their doors.
Name a bank that gives ANYONE money to build for free. Not one, right? Now go one more step; Name a utility company that gives away their product. Not one, right? One more step; Name a city that doesn't charge property taxes on prime piece of commercial real estate. Not one, right?
So how in the world do you propose, besides not having ANY churches at all, to be able to have a place for people to congregate together and worship???? They may be exempt from paying SOME taxes, but they're certainly not exempt from paying ALL taxes. Some of the requirements of being a charitable organization by law makes them have to use outside agencies to keep certain things fair. Those agencies damn sure don't do their work for FREE. Who should pay for that? Tax payers? Maybe they should since we pay for a ton of worthless crap already anyway, this would actually be a welcomed change to that monotony.
My point is that a church is a self sufficient entity. The gov't doesn't support it, the members do. I agree that if a church is all about the "money", then it certainly is not a church to be associated with. But certainly NOT ALL churches are strictly about the "money" as you'd like people to believe. That's generalizing. That's like saying ALL VW's are slow. The majority are, but we both know that not ALL are, so that statement would be false. Your statement is the same way.
oh your right, i've never been to church, i have no idea what i'm talking about, and i'm sure the billions of offerings taken up are used quite wisely :jerkit:
i'm sure the gym your church is building is for those inner city kids in Kennesawor maybe to shelter the homeless and hungry. give me a fucking break dude we live in the real world, multi million dollar churches are there for a reason to take in $$$ to support the needs of its followers and its leaders. if you would taking in money for to better man kind you could of saved the $$$ spent on recreational facilitys and built something for a community in need (not the suburbs).
jamie your still twisting my words to suit your comments... re read the post... he posted what they spend money, i merely asked a question of how you turning it into me making a statement. you are reading way to much into what i said. your smarter than this i would think you would see that.
obviously life isn't free and things cost money... but why is it that you need a million dollar facilities to worship. i'm sure jesus lived in a palace....
seriously some of you are way more closed minded than i thought, you are quite blinded by your faith. thats cool if you want to believe whatever i don't down you for it, but don't act stupid, you and i both know religion is a multi billion dollar business if it wasn't we wouldn't be having this discussion.
You're right about that. Cafes and clubs and things like that are excessive. I don't see how that serves a church-like effort. And you are absolutely correct in that is not the way Christianity is intended. Give you all that.
obviously life isn't free and things cost money... but why is it that you need a million dollar facilities to worship. i'm sure jesus lived in a palace....
Those type of churches are exactly the churches I don't like myself. I wouldn't attend nor support them. Is their message bad? I don't know because I don't go there.
I also know that is the exception and not the rule. My church doesn't have a cafe or a club. It may have a gym and some sound equipment, but both are used for ton of things INCLUDING community work. I've only gone personally to one big church that had some of the things you're mentioning, but not quite the cafe/club thing. I know they probably exist, but I also know that the vast majority of churches not only couldn't afford to do that, but also would refuse to do that. That's my point. To hear you talk, if people didn't know any better, they'd assume ALL churches are these multi million dollar conglomerate magnates that shower their own leaders ala Jim Baker and Tammyesque. I'm here to tell you that's simply not true. Yes, it does exist. Yes, it has always been there. Yes, people take advantage of a captive audience to fleece them. BUT that is the exception and NOT the rule.
The majority of church leaders (generic for priest, rev, pastor, etc.) live meek lives and humble existances. My preacher drives a plain jane Honda Accord, and his wife a mini van. That's it. Your house is worth more than theirs. The church may have a million dollar budget, but it's certainly not spent on them unless they are hiding the money somewhere, which I personally doubt.
oh your right, i've never been to church, i have no idea what i'm talking about, and i'm sure the billions of offerings taken up are used quite wisely :jerkit:
i'm sure the gym your church is building is for those inner city kids in Kennesaw
how many more times do i have to say my church isn't in kennesaw... it's in McCaysville Ga. and Yeah were gonna use the gym for whatever we want, but it's there for everyone and anyone.... and for the last time... my church does plenty for our community... where r u getting this multi million dollar church stuff.... small town small church... (big for the area but nothing compared to the one's here...) and i never said u've never been to church i said u don't understand how it works....
what do ya'll think about the television evangalists? (sp) Like that lady with the light lavender hair. I lister to her sometimes and I'm like WTF???? She cries everyday, but I never see a tear.
some are real... some are just tryin to get money it's as simple as that... i can't judge who but it happens...
Sadly, that image is engraved in many people's mind and that is how they formulate their idea on what a church is, instead of finding out otherwise...
We live in an era where pleny of people would rather believe the television instead of their fellow man.....
Paul a church has expenses. I am sure that even some car clubs on Ia.com ask for a "member fee". People often ask to BYOB at cookouts.
Nopi charges you $$$ to "enter" just to "show"...
By your standards, all those things should be free right? I mean come ON ! NOPI?? Makes TONS of money right?? it should GIVE to its members and not "support" itself right???
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
yes but do you see car clubs w/ multi million dollar complexs??? have you ever priced out lifesize crosses, stainedglass, etc... its not cheap nor is it neccessary to worship. it is a choice that is made the ideas of man to build bigger and better, almost like paving your way to heaven
I have seen car shows rent up the Multi-million dollar complexes and conference center. Why have it in a nice A/C place with angle-lighting, DJ's and music and strippers and everything but the kitchen sink? Why not just have it in a parking lot under the sun? That is what you want chuchgoers to do too anyway?
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
hold on... i'm only staying w/ you b/c you wanted to use something as an example... granted its not a good one, but whatever... you have to remember the diffrence here. i throw a car show and it cost 1 million dollars, who cars, it has nothing to do w/ religion, i spend how i see fit.. the point though is if i spend 1 million on a facility w/ stained glass windows, scriptures on the wall, life size crosses, etc... what is the point of that/??? that is excess, the message is the same in someones home as it is in a multimillion dollar facility.
its like buying Air Jordans, they don't make you play like Jordan
Gluttony is a sin. No one goes to car shows to worship God.
Some things that you guys are mentioning are DONATED to the church by people, i.e. it doesn't cost the church a penny for it.
I know this to be true because at my church they have a beautiful stained glass mural behind the choir that was donated by one of it's members. He asked for that specific thing to be done because he wanted people to see something pretty at church. It cost him some money, but it didn't cost the church a dime. Things like that are more common than you think.
The other night, speaking of mega sound systems, I personally had to bring a cd player to play the music for the kids because the old cd player died. I left it up there and it will probably become a permanent part of the sanctuary where we meet for the kids music time. That didn't cost the church a dime either.
There are many other examples from swing sets to pinestraw. It doesn't happen everyday, but sometimes one time donations can last a long time too.
You'd be surprised at what a good church's budget consists of. It's not always to buy their preacher a MB or a mega mansion. Again, that is the exception and not the rule.
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