6 reasons why god exist...

[PhAtBoYMr2]

Thought this was a really good read...



http://www.everychicowildcat.com/isthere.php
I made the 6 topics all big and shit. saw this in a facebook fliar

Is There a God?
Does God exist? Is there proof of God? The following offers candid, straight-forward reasons to believe in the existence of God...

By Marilyn Adamson

Download PDF versionJust once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.
But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.
When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons supporting the existence of God...
1. The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today. Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:
The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.
The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.
And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4
Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:
It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.
Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5
Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.
Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.
Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.
Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6
2. The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it. The human brain simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.
The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information... did it come about just by chance? Was it merely biological causes, perfectly forming the right tissue, blood flow, neurons, structure? The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people. How does one explain the human brain?
3. "Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations. The alternative to God existing is that all that exists around us came about by natural cause and random chance. If someone is rolling dice, the odds of rolling a pair of sixes is one thing. But the odds of spots appearing on blank dice is something else. What Pasteur attempted to prove centuries ago, science confirms, that life cannot arise from non-life. Where did human, animal, plant life come from?
Also, natural causes are an inadequate explanation for the amount of precise information contained in human DNA. A person who discounts God is left with the conclusion that all of this came about without cause, without design, and is merely good fortune. It is intellectually wanting to observe intricate design and attribute it to luck.
4. To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God. This is not to say that if enough people believe something it is therefore true. Scientists, for example, have discovered new truths about the universe which overruled previous conclusions. But as science has progressed, no scientific discovery has countered the numerical likelihood of an intelligent mind being behind it all. In fact, the more science discovers about human life and the universe, the more complex and precisely designed we realize these to be. Rather than pointing away from God, evidence mounts further toward an intelligent source. But objective evidence is not all.
There is a much larger issue. Throughout history, billions of people in the world have attested to their firm, core convictions about God's existence--arrived at from their subjective, personal relationship with God. Millions today could give detailed account of their experience with God. They would point to answered prayer and specific, amazing ways God has met their needs, and guided them through important personal decisions. They would offer, not only a description of their beliefs, but detailed reports of God's actions in their lives. Many are sure that a loving God exists and has shown himself to be faithful to them. If you are a skeptic, can you say with certainty: "I am absolutely right and they all are wrong about God"?
5. We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him. I was an atheist at one time. And like most atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, disillusioned people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.
I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.
I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."
Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.
6. Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us. Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.
He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."8 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."9
What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.10
Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.
Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."11 This is God, in action.
Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."12
God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind
Faith.


Cliffs: Start Praying!!!

[d1esel12]

AMEN

[Sol-Badguy]

To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God.

PEER PRESSURE!!

[PhAtBoYMr2]

I believe there is a god...I mean most of everything that's happening now has already been proven by the bible... But i guess we'll just have to wait and see....

[Mr_Mischif]

My 2 biggest problems with religion, not just Christianity, but all religions are that they are SO MUCH TROUBLE and the question of good people dying young.

To the first: Every major tragic event short of the Ice age is either because of god or can be attributed to God: Example: 9/11, the Crusades, the Holocaust, what's going on in the Middle East now. It seems to me that for something that is ultimately about peace, there sure is a whole lotta war going on pertaining to it.

To the second: Why do the good people die young? The seemingly good people in the world seem to die because of a bad person's actions, like the soldiers currently fighting in Iraq, yet the bad people continue to live their lives, making money, or striking fear into the hearts of others, such as Osama Bin Laden.

Those really are the only two problem I have with organized religion. That, and their ideals are a lil bit sketchy, and they sometimes force you to do things against religion. I still like the Bible as a book of morals, but nothing else.

[joesblk_teg]

+1 good read

[Decker1.8t]

meh ...

[NewGen33]

awesome +1

[Jimmy B]

My 2 biggest problems with religion, not just Christianity, but all religions are that they are SO MUCH TROUBLE and the question of good people dying young.

To the first: Every major tragic event short of the Ice age is either because of god or can be attributed to God: Example: 9/11, the Crusades, the Holocaust, what's going on in the Middle East now. It seems to me that for something that is ultimately about peace, there sure is a whole lotta war going on pertaining to it.

To the second: Why do the good people die young? The seemingly good people in the world seem to die because of a bad person's actions, like the soldiers currently fighting in Iraq, yet the bad people continue to live their lives, making money, or striking fear into the hearts of others, such as Osama Bin Laden.

Those really are the only two problem I have with organized religion. That, and their ideals are a lil bit sketchy, and they sometimes force you to do things against religion. I still like the Bible as a book of morals, but nothing else.

God allows everything to how you how good CAN come out of bad.. 3 mos ago, i lost a very good friend of mine, 20, in college, awsome student, and very blessed in what he did.... BUT, it IS Gods will, and somethign good will/has come out of it... sometimes it dosent seem fair, but he allows it for a reason

[_Christian_]

my personal opinion on these arguments:
1. the earths conditions are so perfect for the life forms on it because we have evolved from it and adapted to it over billions of years
2. why does the most complex thing have to be created by a higher being? our brains are too complex so a higher intelligence is behind it. how complex is god's brain? i doubt one would argue that its less complex than a humans...so what intelligence is behind the creation of his brain.
3. if i cant explain it, it is an act of god
4. one must believe what the majority believes or else he/she is wrong
5. belief
6. belief
There is no proof that god exists. there is much scientific evidence of evolution and how we came about to be. creationism to me is just illogical. there is also no proof that he doesnt exist, but it is a lot harder to prove nonexistence than existence. Is there a god? no one KNOWS for sure so there is no correct yes or no answer.

[David88vert]

my personal opinion on these arguments:
1. the earths conditions are so perfect for the life forms on it because we have evolved from it and adapted to it over billions of years
2. why does the most complex thing have to be created by a higher being? our brains are too complex so a higher intelligence is behind it. how complex is god's brain? i doubt one would argue that its less complex than a humans...so what intelligence is behind the creation of his brain.
3. if i cant explain it, it is an act of god
4. one must believe what the majority believes or else he/she is wrong
5. belief
6. belief
There is no proof that god exists. there is much scientific evidence of evolution and how we came about to be. creationism to me is just illogical. there is also no proof that he doesnt exist, but it is a lot harder to prove nonexistence than existence. Is there a god? no one KNOWS for sure so there is no correct yes or no answer.

1) Mathmatically improbable - approx 10_37 (10 to the 37th power) against it. Imagine having a pile of dimes that cover every square inch of North America - and go all the way to the moon. Now multiple that huge pile of dimes by 1 billion. So you have 1 billion piles of dimes that are EACH the size of NOrth America and are as tall as from here to the moon. Take one dime, mark it, and hide it somewhere in one of those 1 billion piles. Blindfold someone, and have them pick out that one dime at random. The odds of getting that marked dime is 10_37.
2) Read "Darwin's Black Box" - it specifically addresses our DNA strains scientifically, and shows how DNA is, basically in the simpliest terms, and instruction manual. It can give a mutation of "use an 1/8 nut" in place of the correct "use a 1/4 nut; but it cannot have you make a transistor radio when the instructions are for a printer.
3) That's not necessarily true - maybe you just aren't smart enough yet.
4) Anyone can believe what they want - but that does not necessarily make it true or untrue.
5) valid
6) valid
You being here is your proof that a higher intelligence exists. It is mathmatically improbable that this universe could come into existence without help from a greater being. What evidence do you have the evolution exists? Evolution is a sci-fi story (a good one though), that was made up by Darwin's grandfather. They did not have the scientific knowledge of the universe that we have now. How can evolution explain how the universe could come into existence? Scientific laws show that the Big Bang could not have happened. I can explain in more detail if needed.

[greasemunkey]

my personal opinion on these arguments:
1. the earths conditions are so perfect for the life forms on it because we have evolved from it and adapted to it over billions of years
2. why does the most complex thing have to be created by a higher being? our brains are too complex so a higher intelligence is behind it. how complex is god's brain? i doubt one would argue that its less complex than a humans...so what intelligence is behind the creation of his brain.
3. if i cant explain it, it is an act of god
4. one must believe what the majority believes or else he/she is wrong
5. belief
6. belief
There is no proof that god exists. there is much scientific evidence of evolution and how we came about to be. creationism to me is just illogical. there is also no proof that he doesnt exist, but it is a lot harder to prove nonexistence than existence. Is there a god? no one KNOWS for sure so there is no correct yes or no answer.

you were created to have david88vert give a good explanation to this question see there is a God.

[ueyedgr8tness]

I believe there is a god...I mean most of everything that's happening now has already been proven by the bible... But i guess we'll just have to wait and see....

100% RIGHT look were it says in 1 chapter about in the end u want be able to tell the season<and look at it hot 1 day and cold another feb we had 67 dg weather wow how could u not believe in the bible and god

[shnil]

Great post. Also I believe the earth isn't billion years old, but about 6000 years old according to the bible. There is a guy named Kent Hovind that has a theory about on the Earth's creation taken from the bible's perspective. Its pretty interesting IMO.

[C22H19N3O4]

...I mean most of everything that's happening now has already been proven by the bible.

REALLY? So it's an irrefutable fact that God exists? What a relief!

...1) Mathmatically improbable - approx 10_37 (10 to the 37th power) against it. Imagine having a pile of dimes that cover every square inch of North America - and go all the way to the moon. Now multiple that huge pile of dimes by 1 billion. So you have 1 billion piles of dimes that are EACH the size of NOrth America and are as tall as from here to the moon. Take one dime, mark it, and hide it somewhere in one of those 1 billion piles. Blindfold someone, and have them pick out that one dime at random. The odds of getting that marked dime is 10_37.
2) Read "Darwin's Black Box" - it specifically addresses our DNA strains scientifically, and shows how DNA is, basically in the simpliest terms, and instruction manual. It can give a mutation of "use an 1/8 nut" in place of the correct "use a 1/4 nut; but it cannot have you make a transistor radio when the instructions are for a printer.
3) That's not necessarily true - maybe you just aren't smart enough yet.
4) Anyone can believe what they want - but that does not necessarily make it true or untrue.
5) valid
6) valid
You being here is your proof that a higher intelligence exists. It is mathmatically improbable that this universe could come into existence without help from a greater being. What evidence do you have the evolution exists? Evolution is a sci-fi story (a good one though), that was made up by Darwin's grandfather. They did not have the scientific knowledge of the universe that we have now. How can evolution explain how the universe could come into existence? Scientific laws show that the Big Bang could not have happened. I can explain in more detail if needed.

You know what cracks me up about your posts? All you do is regurgitate "facts" from creationist websites, but you never list your source. You should give credit where credit is due. Also, you claim science isn't all that accurate, but you use science to refute science. Creation science is NOT science. There is nothing intelligent about ID. Remember you thought the Ica stones were real?

http://www.godtube.com/

[ahmonrah]

i look at it like this, as far as when it comes to be answered "why do the good die young?"

myself, after being struck from behind by a vehicle doing nearly 80mph, my truck exploding rolling 85 feet thru an intersection, then over a wall made of masonry and concrete that stood more that 5'3" (tasuki_civic seen the wall, i took her to my accident scene), and surviving basically unscathed?

only to have a friend that was ever hardly hurt, injured, sick, never smoke, drink, develop lung cancer and die 2 weeks past his 27th b-day. he didnt even smoke! i'm the smoker......but with him, he was completely honest in what he said to people about how he felt, even if it angered them, but they respected his unerring honesty, was loyal to those he cared about, strived for the better regardles of obstacles, looked at the word "CANT as WONT TRY" and got on people for using the word "CANT",

after his family and i buried him in our hometown of chicago last august, i sat in my hotel room teary and mad asking GOD "what did he do to deserve to die?" "why did he have to go?" and no sooner than i said that, the answer i got was "he earned it."
that's when it seemed like it all hit me
he no longer has to worry about a world in which it's:
"survival of the fittest"
"it's a dog eat dog world"
"every man for himself"
"if you dont want it i'll take it".

no more concerns about what he will have to do to stay employed. whether the chick he loves loves him for him, or what he has or can do for or to her. that dude, and plenty like him, even members of this site (r.i.p. NEGRODOMUS, and the brotha that got shot at the other guys house last month, and others that are no longer able to whore it up on here) it occurred to me that with people like them, others eerily always had no bad things to say about them. you more commonly hear things like:
"they always looked to help someone out"
"always seemed happy"
"was generous"
"didnt lie, even it if hurt, but they werent rude, just honest"
"was true about his feeling and expresed them"

in a world that has become......well for lack of a better world "FUCKED". i dont think i'd leave my good people here to suffer any more than they have to so long as they've earned the right to die, i mean, if i was god. would you leave a lamb in the care of a pack of wolves ?? hailz nah, would you let a molester open a day care ? nope. so if the good people stayed good on this earth, learned the life lessons you provided and passed your tests, why let them stay here?

dont get it twisted y'all, i'm no bible thumper. i dont try to stick myself into any religious group (because, to me religions=factions=friction=separation of all peoples based on cover titles of the book they are faithful too) i'm a dude that's stood at deaths door, wasnt allowed in and seen the things i have to do. and that's listen to the good things in myself learn the lessons i myself have to earn in this life, like we all do, and try to earn my own right.


peace

[David88vert]

REALLY? So it's an irrefutable fact that God exists? What a relief!

You're here aren't you? Care to explain scientifically how the universe could come into existence without a cause/first effect? Give some facts.

You know what cracks me up about your posts? All you do is regurgitate "facts" from creationist websites, but you never list your source. You should give credit where credit is due. Also, you claim science isn't all that accurate, but you use science to refute science. Creation science is NOT science. There is nothing intelligent about ID. Remember you thought the Ica stones were real?

Care to debate DNA? Or universal design? Those facts are not from creationist sites, but from science textbooks. And I am not refuting science at all. I am discussing scientific points, and then looking at what they mean, rather than drawing a conclusion, and trying to unsuccessfully twist observations into my conclusion. And I did give you a book to read in the earlier post. Darwin's Black Box is a book. So the only thing proven unintelligent in this thread has been your post.

[quickdodge®]

David. My main question would be this:

If everyone wants "proof" that evolution is where we came from and all that, I'd like to see "proof" that God is where we came from. People cite instances in the Bible that can show us this proof, but it can also be explained away as people seeing what they want to see when reading. Just as others say they same about evolution.

I personally don't like having "faith" in something I can't see or hear. I have questions that no one, I mean no one, can answer. Main one being, why should I suffer for my whole life while others seem to not. I know my suffering will "lead me to a better place," but why suffer while I wait? I don't know.

And David, know I'm not arguing or trying to disprove or anything your posts or beliefs as I still have some sort of belief in the above, so please don't take it that way. Later, QD.

[Jaimecbr900]

You know what cracks me up about your posts? All you do is regurgitate "facts" from creationist websites, but you never list your source. You should give credit where credit is due.

Wow, hello pot....my name is kettle.

You regurgitate more minutia than anyone on this board in an ill fated attempt to sound remotely intelligent.

How many "books" and "scientific evidence" have YOU quoted in identical previous discussions? I didn't see any footnotes.

It boils down to one obviously blatant attempt from you to try and "baffle them with bullshit" in all of these "discussions".

Also, you claim science isn't all that accurate, but you use science to refute science. Creation science is NOT science. There is nothing intelligent about ID.

You just like to pick and choose just what "science" you think is factual and which one is not. How convenient.

BTW, LOGIC is not always based on Science. It's ironic that non-believers hold out HOPE and FAITH that someday.....in a far, far away place.....we will finally find "scientific" evidence to finally "prove" there is no God, yet you chastise other people for holding out that same HOPE and FAITH that their God is real.

Not a single "scientist" has ever CREATED life. They can duplicate it. They can dissect it. But not a single one has ever CREATED it. Why???? Because they CAN'T. Yet that same communal mindset is the one that tries to convince people that single celled organisms devoid of any brain matter somehow figured out HOW to CREATE multi-cell and infinitely more complex LIFE. Why is that? So, let's review shall we?:

YOUR infinitely wise and totally correct "science" thinks that non-existent matter crashed into each other somewhere out in outer space and with the Lucky Charms guy magically created the Universe a billion years ago, YET just a relatively short 400 yrs ago that "scientific" thinking thought the Earth was FLAT????

The only EVOLUTION non-believers need to worship is the one fact that THEY need to EVOLVE and understand that they don't know anywhere near as much as they think they do. Remember, 400 yrs ago the Earth was flat to "scientists" of the day. 400 yrs from now, if yall are still around, I'm sure you'll come up with some other truly "scientific" breakthrough......

[quickdodge®]

It's ironic that non-believers hold out HOPE and FAITH that someday.....in a far, far away place.....we will finally find "scientific" evidence to finally "prove" there is no God, yet you chastise other people for holding out that same HOPE and FAITH that their God is real.

As a sort of non believer, I would love to see proof that there is or is not a God. I think it would be awesome for everyone to know, matter-of-fact whether or not a higher power really exists. And I know that this probably wasn't directed in my general direction, but my cuts on religion are only in jest. I won't ridicule someone for their beliefs. Later, QD.

[Jaimecbr900]

As a sort of non believer, I would love to see proof that there is or is not a God. I think it would be awesome for everyone to know, matter-of-fact whether or not a higher power really exists. And I know that this probably wasn't directed in my general direction, but my cuts on religion are only in jest. I won't ridicule someone for their beliefs. Later, QD.

You don't chastise anyone on their beliefs. Viagra boy does.

I'm not sure, but I will take a stab at it.

I think that part of the reason why God doesn't simply just part the heavens and says "howdy do" may be because if you did not come to the decision that he existed on your own then how would it be fair that you reap all the same rewards as someone who didn't need that revelation to believe. Follow?

Look at it like this: Would you prefer to have a friend that is a friend by choice or a friend that someone PAYS to be your "friend"? Same idea I think. Kinda like when you have to remind someone that today is your birthday. How's their sudden, "oops, Happy Birthday." compare to someone who sought you out to TELL you "happy birthday"? Kinda makes a difference, doesn't it?

[quickdodge®]

I think that part of the reason why God doesn't simply just part the heavens and says "howdy do" may be because if you did not come to the decision that he existed on your own then how would it be fair that you reap all the same rewards as someone who didn't need that revelation to believe. Follow?

Look at it like this: Would you prefer to have a friend that is a friend by choice or a friend that someone PAYS to be your "friend"? Same idea I think. Kinda like when you have to remind someone that today is your birthday. How's their sudden, "oops, Happy Birthday." compare to someone who sought you out to TELL you "happy birthday"? Kinda makes a difference, doesn't it?

I got that 100% before your analogy. Remember now, I'm smart. Lolol. I've never heard it put that way. The more I think of your answer, the more it makes sense. But what about the people that do have faith? He should show/reveal himself to them to let them know that their faith is not misplaced or in vain. Later, QD.

[Jaimecbr900]

I got that 100% before your analogy. Remember now, I'm smart. Lolol.

I'm bad about over documenting my posts......

I've never heard it put that way. The more I think of your answer, the more it makes sense. But what about the people that do have faith? He should show/reveal himself to them to let them know that their faith is not misplaced or in vain. Later, QD.

Well, I guess it's the same reason that he doesn't just "appear" to anyone. I believe w/o him appearing before me, so I don't need him to materialize to continue to believe. Sort of the same way we do "good" things w/o anyone asking us to. We just do them. We get some kind of feeling or thought and just act upon that accordingly. Similar thing to believing in God. You read, you go to church, you listen to your parents/family, you ask questions, you do research, and you use logic. Eventually you will find an answer that tilts the scales enough for you to choose one side of the fence over the other. Sometimes it hits you like a bolt of lightning, while others may be more subdued. It's a very individualistic thing. Some very brilliant and very nice people are self-proclaimed Atheists, and that is totally their perrogative. I feel everyone HAS to make that choice on their own. Eventually, everyone does. Not everyone will agree with you on it, but you will have to eventually make a decision one way or another. Some get there quicker than others, but it doesn't matter as long as you have time......alas there's the rub....

[TheChosenOne]

Atheist!!!


Riddle me this...

(keep in mind, i'm just throwing this one up in the air, and i'm really looking for an answer)

If Adam and Eve were the only two people in the world whom were created by the almighty GOD himself, then how did they procreate? Im not looking for a explaination on how they did it physically, but weren't they technically kin. I mean, God created Adam and then he created Eve form Adam's rib...

A more important question is would it be considered incest if they had offspring??? If not in the case of Adam and Eve, what about their children??? it says in the bible that EVERYONE is a decendent of Adam and Eve, so somewhere along the line someone must have had sex with thier sister, right???

Just a little question for the believers................

[Jaimecbr900]

Atheist!!!


Riddle me this...

(keep in mind, i'm just throwing this one up in the air, and i'm really looking for an answer)

If Adam and Eve were the only two people in the world whom were created by the almighty GOD himself, then how did they procreate? Im not looking for a explaination on how they did it physically, but weren't they technically kin. I mean, God created Adam and then he created Eve form Adam's rib...

A more important question is would it be considered incest if they had offspring??? If not in the case of Adam and Eve, what about their children??? it says in the bible that EVERYONE is a decendent of Adam and Eve, so somewhere along the line someone must have had sex with thier sister, right???

Just a little question for the believers................

Are you asking how it's possible or are you questioning it's morality?

[quickdodge®]

Are you asking how it's possible or are you questioning it's morality?

I believe the morality. Later, QD.

[_Christian_]

Atheist!!!


Riddle me this...

(keep in mind, i'm just throwing this one up in the air, and i'm really looking for an answer)

If Adam and Eve were the only two people in the world whom were created by the almighty GOD himself, then how did they procreate? Im not looking for a explaination on how they did it physically, but weren't they technically kin. I mean, God created Adam and then he created Eve form Adam's rib...

A more important question is would it be considered incest if they had offspring??? If not in the case of Adam and Eve, what about their children??? it says in the bible that EVERYONE is a decendent of Adam and Eve, so somewhere along the line someone must have had sex with thier sister, right???

Just a little question for the believers................

Eve got freaky with cane and able:idb:...that is if youbelieve the bible

[Lucky DAWG]

My 2 biggest problems with religion, not just Christianity, but all religions are that they are SO MUCH TROUBLE and the question of good people dying young.

To the first: Every major tragic event short of the Ice age is either because of god or can be attributed to God: Example: 9/11, the Crusades, the Holocaust, what's going on in the Middle East now. It seems to me that for something that is ultimately about peace, there sure is a whole lotta war going on pertaining to it.

To the second: Why do the good people die young? The seemingly good people in the world seem to die because of a bad person's actions, like the soldiers currently fighting in Iraq, yet the bad people continue to live their lives, making money, or striking fear into the hearts of others, such as Osama Bin Laden.

Those really are the only two problem I have with organized religion. That, and their ideals are a lil bit sketchy, and they sometimes force you to do things against religion. I still like the Bible as a book of morals, but nothing else.

that has no bearing on anything.

those bad things are happening because of human beings, not because of faith in god, the multitude of religions is our own fault and is a good idea that has been messed with.

wars over religion is not a problem attributed to the existence of a God, it is a problem attributed to human pride that what they believe in is correct

[ShooterMcGavin]

lirl @ religious propaganda......i think i'm gonna go create a thread about communism and why it's great

[Lucky DAWG]

lirl @ religious propaganda......i think i'm gonna go create a thread about communism and why it's great

awesome

me, Eisenhower, and McCarthy will be ready to kick your ass

[David88vert]

David. My main question would be this:

If everyone wants "proof" that evolution is where we came from and all that, I'd like to see "proof" that God is where we came from. People cite instances in the Bible that can show us this proof, but it can also be explained away as people seeing what they want to see when reading. Just as others say they same about evolution.

I personally don't like having "faith" in something I can't see or hear. I have questions that no one, I mean no one, can answer. Main one being, why should I suffer for my whole life while others seem to not. I know my suffering will "lead me to a better place," but why suffer while I wait? I don't know.

And David, know I'm not arguing or trying to disprove or anything your posts or beliefs as I still have some sort of belief in the above, so please don't take it that way. Later, QD.

If you believe in God or evolution, it doesn't matter. Either takes faith. The only difference is that evolution can be disproven rather easily - but that does not mean that you cannot believe it on faith, which is completely fine.

And your posts are always fine. This is just a discussion, and will probably not change how people believe - but they should know why they believe what they do, and be able to make a reasonable arguement for it.

[sdiddy]

A more important question is would it be considered incest if they had offspring??? If not in the case of Adam and Eve, what about their children??? it says in the bible that EVERYONE is a decendent of Adam and Eve, so somewhere along the line someone must have had sex with thier sister, right???

yes.

There was no law against incest in early times. After all, what other choice did they have?

[BKgen®]

i couldn't agree more.

plus one.

[C22H19N3O4]

You don't chastise anyone on their beliefs. Viagra boy does.

I'm only critical of your religious posts b/c they are comical. If you don't like what I post then don't read it. I encourage everyone to respond to my topics, EVEN someone like you. If you can dish it out then you SHOULD be able to take it.

You have yet to answer a question I posed to you last year. It's not verbatim but close enough: if you and every Christian zealot deem science as inaccurate, why do you reap the rewards of it everyday? I know it's an elementary question, but it serves my purpose. I'm willing to bet that if a family member were to become ill you wouldn't call your priest first. Im pretty sure you'd be headed to the ER. Why not just pray about it? Pray and hope that your loved one will pull through and forget about all the advances in medicine. Oddly enough, religious nuts only seem to call the clergy when the patient is near death's door. People like you take comfort in the bosom of science when you need it most, but when it doesn't conform to your propaganda it's the red headed stepchild. Now, the statement is not just meant for Jaime, but for every Christian nut that assumes science is inherently evil.

The only difference is that evolution can be disproven rather easily - but that does not mean that you cannot believe it on faith, which is completely fine.

WOW! You can really disprove evolution through probability/statistics? I'll alert the media, because this is breaking news. Creation scientists will not even make that claim. So your decades in evolutionary biology helped you come to this conclusion? We should just dismiss the last 150 years of research, b/c you know that irreducible complexity lends itself to the fact that evolution is SOOO complex that the probability of evolution having occurred is almost zero? Absolutely amazing! Where did you do your research? I hope you're not of one those guys that reads creationist websites and pretends to know something about science. Im pretty sure you've taken basic science courses and understand common biological terminology?

Now, you mentioned Darwin's Black Box. Michael Behe wrote this book about 10 years ago, he's Roman Catholic, and has NEVER had a peer reviewed article published. So he is not biased at all and claims his ideology does not force him to believe in a Designer? He's been ripped apart for the last 10 years since his book was pusblished. Remember the Dover trial in 2005? Read about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmil...chool_District


Just some comments by the judge on Behe's testimony:
The judge in his final ruling relied heavily upon Behe's testimony for the defense, citing:

-"Consider, to illustrate, that Professor Behe remarkably and unmistakably claims that the plausibility of the argument for ID depends upon the extent to which one believes in the existence of God.
-'As no evidence in the record indicates that any other scientific proposition's validity rests on belief in God, nor is the Court aware of any such scientific propositions, Professor Behe's assertion constitutes substantial evidence that in his view, as is commensurate with other prominent ID leaders, ID is a religious and not a scientific proposition.
-"First, defense expert Professor Fuller agreed that ID aspires to "change the ground rules" of science and lead defense expert Professor Behe admitted that his broadened definition of science, which encompasses ID, would also embrace astrology. Moreover, defense expert Professor Minnich acknowledged that for ID to be considered science, the ground rules of science have to be broadened to allow consideration of supernatural forces.
-"What is more, defense experts concede that ID is not a theory as that term is defined by the NAS and admit that ID is at best "fringe science" which has achieved no acceptance in the scientific community.
-"We therefore find that Professor Behe's claim for irreducible complexity has been refuted in peer-reviewed research papers and has been rejected by the scientific community at large.
-"ID proponents primarily argue for design through negative arguments against evolution, as illustrated by Professor Behe’s argument that “irreducibly complex” systems cannot be produced through Darwinian, or any natural, mechanisms. However, … arguments against evolution are not arguments for design. Expert testimony revealed that just because scientists cannot explain today how biological systems evolved does not mean that they cannot, and will not, be able to explain them tomorrow. As Dr. Padian aptly noted, “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”… Irreducible complexity is a negative argument against evolution, not proof of design, a point conceded by defense expert Professor Minnich.
-"Professor Behe’s concept of irreducible complexity depends on ignoring ways in which evolution is known to occur. Although Professor Behe is adamant in his definition of irreducible complexity when he says a precursor “missing a part is by definition nonfunctional,” what he obviously means is that it will not function in the same way the system functions when all the parts are present. For example in the case of the bacterial flagellum, removal of a part may prevent it from acting as a rotary motor. However, Professor Behe excludes, by definition, the possibility that a precursor to the bacterial flagellum functioned not as a rotary motor, but in some other way, for example as a secretory system.
-"Professor Behe has applied the concept of irreducible complexity to only a few select systems: (1) the bacterial flagellum; (2) the blood-clotting cascade; and (3) the immune system. Contrary to Professor Behe’s assertions with respect to these few biochemical systems among the myriad existing in nature, however, Dr. Miller presented evidence, based upon peer-reviewed studies, that they are not in fact irreducibly complex.
-"...proponents assert that they refuse to propose hypotheses on the designer’s identity, do not propose a mechanism, and the designer, he/she/it/they, has never been seen. … Professor Behe’s only response to these seemingly insurmountable points of disanalogy was that the inference still works in science fiction movies.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Behe
It was easy to debunk Behe b/c the science community and his university do not openly accept his views.

We will discuss the use of probability theory tomorrow.

David, most people truly interested in evolution and/or creationism do not post topics that are several years old. They have moved on to more recent issues and do not take to time to rehash the same old topics. This is how I know you just stumbled upon this issue. If you really want to get down and dirty join up at http://www.scienceforums.net/ or http://www.ethicalatheist.com/forum/index.php. You want a "rational" debate? Well come on down! I still find it funny that you're brave enough to claim that you can disprove evolution.

[C22H19N3O4]

I personally don't like having "faith" in something I can't see or hear. I have questions that no one, I mean no one, can answer. Main one being, why should I suffer for my whole life while others seem to not. I know my suffering will "lead me to a better place," but why suffer while I wait? I don't know.

I don't know if you're an avid reader, but I'm going to recommend a book by Philip Yancey. It might help to shed some light. I rarely recommend books of this nature.

[Evil Goat]

My 2 biggest problems with religion, not just Christianity, but all religions are that they are SO MUCH TROUBLE and the question of good people dying young.

To the first: Every major tragic event short of the Ice age is either because of god or can be attributed to God: Example: 9/11, the Crusades, the Holocaust, what's going on in the Middle East now. It seems to me that for something that is ultimately about peace, there sure is a whole lotta war going on pertaining to it.

To the second: Why do the good people die young? The seemingly good people in the world seem to die because of a bad person's actions, like the soldiers currently fighting in Iraq, yet the bad people continue to live their lives, making money, or striking fear into the hearts of others, such as Osama Bin Laden.

Those really are the only two problem I have with organized religion. That, and their ideals are a lil bit sketchy, and they sometimes force you to do things against religion. I still like the Bible as a book of morals, but nothing else.

one thing youve got to realize though is that god doesnt make our decisions for us, we make them ourselves, he knows what the decisions are going to be before they are ever made, but yet in still it is our choice, i believe or destiny is written, but the decisions i make on a daily basis will ultimatley lead me to that final destiny.....

my personal beliefs are that god will show you things if you are in tuned with god, i once asked a preacher was he afraid of death, and his answer was simple, yet makes me think til this day, he said "i am not afraid of death, because god has showed me things that will come to pass in my life that have not happened yet"

i have a personal belief in god, i believe jesus was the savior, and i believe in the ultimate return to claim his followers.

[Jaimecbr900]

I'm only critical of your religious posts b/c they are comical.

Glad you like them.

If you don't like what I post then don't read it.

Come up with something more original than that tired ass response.

I don't like what you post because you NEVER give anything else besides what little resides between your ears any validity, opportunity, or chance. You are by far the absolute most biased and closed minded individual on this entire site. Even totally opposing views have had very constructive albeit argumentative debates here, that is until you start to post. What happens then is that it turns debates into cluster fucks because you love to insert personal conjecture and biased propaganda that you google while you get your rocks off getting on people's nerves on purpose.

Can I be any more clear for you?

I encourage everyone to respond to my topics, EVEN someone like you. If you can dish it out then you SHOULD be able to take it.

Name one time I've never "took" what you're tried to shovel around?? Name it.

You have yet to answer a question I posed to you last year. It's not verbatim but close enough: if you and every Christian zealot deem science as inaccurate, why do you reap the rewards of it everyday?

For the exact same reason you're allowed to breathe the AIR that GOD gave you to breathe.

In your world, we take an aspirin for a headache we suddenly become defacto approvers of the big band theory. It figures, but you're so far off the mark it's not even worth the gum off the bottom of your school desk.

Just because someone uses scientific improvements doesn't automatically mean that they endorce science's idea of evolution. That makes no sense whatsoever. So does that mean that if you breathe the air that I believe wholeheartedly GOD made and provides for you that you suddenly believe God exists??? No, right? Then why would me taking advantage of scientific improvements make me any more an endorcer of the big bang theory? How do you tie both together?

I know it's an elementary question, but it serves my purpose. I'm willing to bet that if a family member were to become ill you wouldn't call your priest first. Im pretty sure you'd be headed to the ER. Why not just pray about it? Pray and hope that your loved one will pull through and forget about all the advances in medicine.

I've answered it before and I answered it again above. You just don't like the answer.

Just because I would look to science to mend a broken BODY does not have anything to do with that person's or his/her family's FAITH in God. Nothing at all. So in your thought process, if I go and get my broken arm casted up at the ER it automatically means that I don't believe in God??? How's that work again? I may pray for someone's speedy recovery. I may pray for someone's family to stay strong during a hard time in their life. That doesn't mean that I don't hope and also pray that the doctors and nurses who try and mend them also are successful. So your point is totally invalid and makes no sense. I see where you're going, but you just don't know how to get there.

I'll tell you what....I'll use the same logic right back on you. How come you rely so heavily on your tried and true "science", yet your "science" can't keep us from dying???? If it's sooooo perfectly right as you say it is and base your whole life on, why do people STILL die ON meds and while under Dr's care??? Furthermore, why do people die each and every day eventhough they were given a clean bill of health by DR's? One more since I'm on a roll.....why do people die every day while on PRESCRIBED MEDICINES that someone somewhere swore would prolong their life??? Answer those with science.

Oddly enough, religious nuts only seem to call the clergy when the patient is near death's door. People like you take comfort in the bosom of science when you need it most, but when it doesn't conform to your propaganda it's the red headed stepchild.

See, you are so twisted in trying to refute everything I say that you can't see the forest for the trees.

I'm not arguing against Science. I'm arguing against people that don't use common sense to figure out that there has to be something far greater than US that created, orchestrated, and planned ALL of us being here right now. Science has tried to COPY what has been CREATED before. It has only succeeded in COPYING what is already there. It has NEVER CREATED anything that comes remotely close to what real life creates every day. So for someone to sit there and pompously proclaim that "Science" is the root of humanity and thereby "Science" is how everything around us including humans was created doesn't make any sense to me. If that was so, how come "Science" can't create anything? You are depending your whole life upon something that continuously evolves into something else over time. The belief of God has been basically the same for millenia, yet you want to argue against it using theories that are continuously changing rationale??? Makes no sense to me.

Now, the statement is not just meant for Jaime, but for every Christian nut that assumes science is inherently evil.

As I said above, I don't know where you are getting that I think Science is evil. I don't. I think it is just a tool like every other tool we use to make our life here as comfortable as possible. Nothing at all wrong with it. The only problem I have is when people use "science" as their ONLY belief system, yet see NO flaws with it at all. THAT is my problem with you, NOT science. Science can prove lots of things. It has yet to disprove God though. Why is that? Because it can't. Science of today is obsolete tommorow by yet another "scientific" discovery that today we didn't think existed or was possible. How come "scientist" fall on their ass backwards saying something is dead on balls accurate today, yet tommorow come in to announce a great breakthrough that makes what was accurate yesterday not so accurate today???? This is the theory you want to base your life's belief system on? Fickle and often proving itself wrong.....that is what you base your life's beliefs on??? Good for you.

You may mock my belief system. You may not agree with it. You're also a fool if you think that there isn't another higher power that has orchestrated all of this, including mine and your bickering debates. You hang your hat on the nail of an aging mortar and pestle and I'll just hang mine on the nails of the cross. You choose what you want to believe in. That is exactly what God intended for each and every one of us.....for us to CHOOSE him or not. Each side has its rewards and punishments. Roll the dice the way YOU see fit.

Just some comments by the judge on Behe's testimony:

David's a big boy and he can respond to your comments himself, but I will say this:

A Judge? You're using a court ruling to back up your evolution belief???

Maybe I'll post up what my mechanic thinks.....maybe I'll quote my next door neighbor.....wait, I know.....I'll quote a bum off the corner who is preaching to me to get me to give him money.....

As if a JUDGE is some kind of authority on evolution or science or even religion.

Quote a scientist or a priest, but a judge????

Anyway, I'll let David respond to your reply, but I just had to comment. Carry on.

[yudalicious]

If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking.

These reasons are nothing groundbreaking, just recycled stuff. To this I say -If a person wholeheartedly believes the existence of a higher power, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained that way. No amount of information is going to change their thinking. Matter of fact, pretty much every argument that's been presented in this thread is recycled form somewhere else, nothing new, nothing grand.

The problem with being Christian is that not only do you have to argue about the existence of God with us nonbelievers, you also have to argue about whose God is the real God with the Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, etc., lol.

[Hulud]

dont want to interject but there are a few things that you said jaime that i would not have expected from you

I'll tell you what....I'll use the same logic right back on you. How come you rely so heavily on your tried and true "science", yet your "science" can't keep us from dying???? If it's sooooo perfectly right as you say it is and base your whole life on, why do people STILL die ON meds and while under Dr's care??? Furthermore, why do people die each and every day eventhough they were given a clean bill of health by DR's? One more since I'm on a roll.....why do people die every day while on PRESCRIBED MEDICINES that someone somewhere swore would prolong their life??? Answer those with science.

that right there is a stupid, stupid question. i guess i expected you not to make such ignorant statements, but o well. you sit there and ask that, yet you dont ask why god cant save peoples lives .

I'm not arguing against Science. I'm arguing against people that don't use common sense to figure out that there has to be something far greater than US that created, orchestrated, and planned ALL of us being here right now. Science has tried to COPY what has been CREATED before. It has only succeeded in COPYING what is already there. It has NEVER CREATED anything that comes remotely close to what real life creates every day. So for someone to sit there and pompously proclaim that "Science" is the root of humanity and thereby "Science" is how everything around us including humans was created doesn't make any sense to me. If that was so, how come "Science" can't create anything? You are depending your whole life upon something that continuously evolves into something else over time. The belief of God has been basically the same for millenia, yet you want to argue against it using theories that are continuously changing rationale??? Makes no sense to me.

So people dont have any common sense if they dont believe in your god? That just goes to show why organized religion is a joke. How are you going to sit there and say that someone claiming science is the root of life doesnt make sense to you, yet you WHOLEHEARTEDLY believe there is this god out there that put it all there? I mean if you didnt EVER go to church or ever hear the concept of a god you wouldnt even think there was a god. Someone planted that idea in your head at whatever age and you came to believe it, just as Cialis does with science. Until you both some riding bandwagons you wont see anyother possible way but your own.

So evolution is bad? Believing in something that ACTUALLY corrects its mistakes is a bad thing?

[Jaimecbr900]

dont want to interject but there are a few things that you said jaime that i would not have expected from you

Sorry to dissapoint.

that right there is a stupid, stupid question. i guess i expected you not to make such ignorant statements, but o well. you sit there and ask that, yet you dont ask why god cant save peoples lives .

#1. It is an analogy, so it is not meant to make factual sense just rhetorical.
#2. It is not ignorant to ask someone that bases his whole life around "science" and how much man is the top of the evolutionary chain due to it's high brain capacity why if "man" and his science is so dead on accurate to have solved life's one and only riddle yet it can't keep us from dying. In other words, if science is so evolutionized that it has proven the lack of existance of a higher being why is it that it still can't keep us from dying? God has a plan for that very riddle. Always has. Always was the same. Science in turn has changed it's answer 50 gazillion times. THAT was my point.

So people dont have any common sense if they dont believe in your god? That just goes to show why organized religion is a joke.

See, now I expected far more from YOU then.

I never said anyone that doesn't believe the same things I do have no common sense. Where did I say that? I said that not believing in a HIGHER POWER doesn't make sense to me and outlined the reasons why.

People will believe what they want to believe. Look at IA as an example. There are a lot of people that don't believe in God. That's fine. So when I say that it makes no common sense to not believe I am saying that I don't see the logic in thinking WE, humans, are all knowing and suddenly have solved the question of the existance of God, period. Be it Allah, Buddah, Jesus, or Jehovah. The point is that TO ME it is utterly ridiculous to think that I, let alone half the ying yangs on IA that still barely can tie their own shoes, have enough brain matter capacity to quantifiably prove the existance of God beyond any doubt. This is where ALL of us have to choose that proverbial fork in the road. Some choose the right, some choose the left. That is what the whole purpose in life really is, choosing the right path according to what YOU believe. If you believe that there is no God, then you choose one side of the road over the other. That's it. This is why I said what I said. Clear now?

How are you going to sit there and say that someone claiming science is the root of life doesnt make sense to you,

Because it doesn't.

yet you WHOLEHEARTEDLY believe there is this god out there that put it all there?

Because THAT is what makes sense to ME.

I mean if you didnt EVER go to church or ever hear the concept of a god you wouldnt even think there was a god. Someone planted that idea in your head at whatever age and you came to believe it, just as Cialis does with science.

Well, funny you use that example.

I have read many stories about missionaries that have traveled and lived in some of the most remote areas of the globe. Like you said, when they get there people have lots of questions about lots of things. When the missionaries relay their Biblical or religious ideas, often times these people have that Acme-light bulb going off over your head- epiphany. It suddenly all clicks and makes sense when before they couldn't make heads or tails about it.

I would imagine that happens in reverse too when someone decides to believe Science and Evolution over Creationism. But often times when we are researching for ourselves we find the answer that makes SENSE to US and then just call that OUR "fact" storing it up there in some filing cabinet in our heads. So just because you've not heard about Christianity doesn't necessarily mean you don't believe in a higher being, it may just be you haven't realized where to go look up the answer at.

Until you both some riding bandwagons you wont see anyother possible way but your own.

I think you left something out of that sentence, but I agree with you.

So evolution is bad? Believing in something that ACTUALLY corrects its mistakes is a bad thing?

Not necessarily, just the raw idea of everything on earth began from some single celled organism that was in some cespool of nothingness suddenly becoming a life. That part makes no sense.

Now, the fact that things adapt to their new environments in order to survive, that I believe. There can still be a master plan. There can still be a God overseeing things. There can still be a purpose to everything. That is strictly faith, and I think that's what you guys have problems with me on.