Plane on a treadmill poll...

[BKgen®]

What's preventing the plane from moving forward, gaining speed, and creating lift?

this:

The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane.

therefore the bitch is stationary. a.k.a. not moving forward.

[speedminded]

[QUOTE=ISAtlanta300]

Wel heck in that case of couse it will take off! LOL

Actually the way a plane propels itself is no differant than a hovercraft or airboat.

[speedminded]

this:



therefore the bitch is stationary. a.k.a. not moving forward.

The wheels are free spinning, the treadmill can be going 10 TIMES the speed of the plane and it still won't effect it any way, it will only make the wheels spin 10 times faster but the plane will still propel itself forward just like any other runway.

[ISAtlanta300]

[QUOTE=speedminded]

Actually the way a plane propels itself is no differant than a hovercraft or airboat.

Actually the way of propulsion is the same, that's right. However, the hovercraft or airboat has no friction. They are in essence riding on air, while the aircraft's wheels touches the ground. The hovercraft is just floating. A plane does not float. You could theoretically spin a hovercraft around like a balloon with your hands if it's floating, but not a plane.

By your definition, a speedboat would burn the same amount of fuel whether it is going up or down the river... that would not be the case.

[Echonova]

The question states that the treadmill runs the same as the PLANES speed, not the wheel speed. They are two different things. The statement that the wheels were free-wheeling was not an accident.

Troof!!

[BKgen®]

The wheels are free spinning, the treadmill can be going 10 TIMES the speed of the plane and it still won't effect it any way, it will only make the wheels spin 10 times faster but the plane will still propel itself forward just like any other runway.

if i'm walking the wrong way down an escalator at the same speed as the escalator itself, will i go anywhere? NO.

but i might fly if i trip

[BKgen®]

there's a list of ingredients in the recipe of flight.

thrust
lift
drag (Created by airflow) <--nowhere to be seen in this problem.
weight (how light the plane is)

i win.

now please, shut down this stupid thread. i'm sick of looking at it.

[Echonova]

if i'm walking the wrong way down an escalator at the same speed as the escalator itself, will i go anywhere? NO.

but i might fly if i trip

Go down the escalator in roller skates the wrong way.

[Dirty Octopus™]

okay... if there was a dinasawr on the plane it wouldnt go ANYWHERS!

[speedminded]

[QUOTE=ISAtlanta300]

Actually the way of propulsion is the same, that's right. However, the hovercraft or airboat has no friction. They are in essence riding on air, while the aircraft's wheels touches the ground. The hovercraft is just floating. A plane does not float. You could theoretically spin a hovercraft around like a balloon with your hands if it's floating, but not a plane.

By your definition, a speedboat would burn the same amount of fuel whether it is going up or down the river... that would not be the case.

An airboat has far more friction loss than an airplane on its free spinning wheels.

Back to the airplane:
Imagine the conveyor was flush with the ground and the transition was near seamless. The plane is taxi'ing on the runway approaching the conveyor, closer and closer, say it's going 10mph. As it goes on the conveyor that's in reverse spinning towards it is the plane going to stop or will it continue forward at 10mph?


Answer, the plane will continue forward at 10mph but the wheels will be spinning backwards at 20mph.

[Echonova]

okay... if there was a dinasawr on the plane it wouldnt go ANYWHERS!

Plane might not go anywhere, but my white ass will be.

[speedminded]

if i'm walking the wrong way down an escalator at the same speed as the escalator itself, will i go anywhere? NO.

but i might fly if i trip

What powers your body? Your FEET! Just like a car is powered by it's wheels. Is an airplane powered by it's wheels, No. Is it powered by anything that touches the ground, no. The wheels are free spinning.

[BKgen®]

[QUOTE=speedminded]

An airboat has far more friction loss than an airplane on its free spinning wheels.

Back to the airplane:
Imagine the conveyor was flush with the ground and the transition was near seamless. The plane is taxi'ing on the runway approaching the conveyor, closer and closer, say it's going 10mph. As it goes on the conveyor that's in reverse is the plane going to stop or will it continue forward at 10mph?


Answer, the plane will continue forward at 10mph and the wheels will be spinning backwards at 20mph.

[speedminded]

[QUOTE=KDM guy]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/171/4...791c6df7_o.jpg

Explain to me how I am wrong...

[BKgen®]

What powers your body? Your FEET! Just like a car is powered by it's wheels. Is an airplane powered by it's wheels, No. Is it powered by anything that touches the ground, no. The wheels are free spinning.

well, it's obvious that i've already won, but i'll humor you anyway.

Suppose a plane is on a runway that acts as a conveyer belt. The conveyor belt is as long as a typical runway. The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane. The wheels of the plane are free-rolling. Will the plane be able to take off?

^^show me where it says anything in there about a power/thrust source.

[Dirty Octopus™]

Plane might not go anywhere, but my white ass will be.

shit... i see your point.

[Echonova]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk

[speedminded]

well, it's obvious that i've already won, but i'll humor you anyway.




^^show me where it says anything in there about a power/thrust source.

It's an airplane, you know they have engines and that's what propels them forward, whether prop or jet it doesn't matter...both yield the exact same result.

[BABY J]

if i'm walking the wrong way down an escalator at the same speed as the escalator itself, will i go anywhere? NO.

but i might fly if i trip

You just proved it to yourself idiot.

If you walk down the escalator at the SAME speed as the escalator you will go nowhere.

If I come up behind you thought and PUSH you (thrust), you will travel the direction that I push you REGARDLESS of how fast yoru feet are moving.

[BKgen®]

It's an airplane, you know they have engines and that's what propels them forward, whether prop or jet it doesn't matter...both yield the exact same result.

so gliders have engines, too? never knew that.

[ISAtlanta300]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmbsd...elated&search=


LOL

[BKgen®]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmbsd...elated&search=


LOL

repped.

[Echonova]

so gliders have engines, too? never knew that.

No but gliders are towed into the air by a plane with a engine.

[speedminded]

so gliders have engines, too? never knew that.

This thread from the very beginning, starting with the title, pertains to planes. Planes propel themselves, planes use runways, gliders use neither.

repped.

Why are you lauging, that vid proves you're wrong

[BKgen®]

No but gliders are towed into the air by a plane with a engine.

then there would also have to be a tow-plane on the treadmill with the glider. the problem only says there's one plane.

you guys are completely missing the point here... even if the plane could move and keep up enough speed for flight, there is no air passing under the wings. Therefore: no lift. The damn plane could stay there allllllll day long, but never get airborne.

without moving air to create drag against the wings, there can be no flight.

what's so fucking hard to understand about that?


(It would probably work if there was a fan in front of the conveyer belt pushing against the plane.)

[BABY J]

1) treadmill is going this way <----------

2) guy on skates is holding on to a string connected to the back of a ugly black square truck

**(ONLY reason he needs to hold on AT ALL is b/c we currently to not have ANY wheel bearings that are 100% efficient, so MINIMAL backwards motion will occur when the mill starts) ... this is negligent though.

3) truck drives (thrust) this way -----> (VTEC ENGAGES - OH SHITZ, HOLD ON SON!!!!!!)

Do we ALL agree that the idiot on the skates (as long as there is energy pushing/pulling him forward) will accelerate this way ----->???

[BKgen®]

^^

[ISAtlanta300]

[QUOTE=speedminded]

An airboat has far more friction loss than an airplane on its free spinning wheels.

Back to the airplane:
Imagine the conveyor was flush with the ground and the transition was near seamless. The plane is taxi'ing on the runway approaching the conveyor, closer and closer, say it's going 10mph. As it goes on the conveyor that's in reverse spinning towards it is the plane going to stop or will it continue forward at 10mph?


Answer, the plane will continue forward at 10mph but the wheels will be spinning backwards at 20mph.

Hmmm so by your definition if someone were to press the EMERGENCY STOP on the treadmill, the plane would suddenly be going 20 MPH now on the stopped treadmill even if his speed was set and untouched, at 10mph ??

I smell a new sport... conveyor-belt drag racing !! Go 100mph, press stop, then fly by at 200mph instantaneously !!!

[ISAtlanta300]

You just proved it to yourself idiot.

If you walk down the escalator at the SAME speed as the escalator you will go nowhere.

If I come up behind you thought and PUSH you (thrust), you will travel the direction that I push you REGARDLESS of how fast yoru feet are moving.

Of course.. but then the treadmill would not be matching your speed anymore, lest it magically adjusted itself to the speed of the force of your push.

[speedminded]

then there would also have to be a tow-plane on the treadmill with the glider. the problem only says there's one plane.

you guys are completely missing the point here... even if the plane could move and keep up enough speed for flight, there is no air passing under the wings. Therefore: no lift. The damn plane could stay there allllllll day long, but never get airborne.

without moving air to create drag against the wings, there can be no flight.

what's so fucking hard to understand about that?

What prevents the plane from moving forward? Think about it!


Here's another analogy, on a skateboard and approaching a normal everyday treadmill that is on, you're rolling towards its then lean back shifting your weight behind the rear wheels lifting the front of the skateboard just before coming in contact with the treadmill....now the rear wheels are on the ground and the front two are on the treadmill. Are you going to fly backwards or just sit there spinning the front wheels?

[speedminded]

[QUOTE=ISAtlanta300]

Hmmm so by your definition if someone were to press the EMERGENCY STOP on the treadmill, the plane would suddenly be going 20 MPH now on the stopped treadmill even if his speed was set and untouched, at 10mph ??

I smell a new sport... conveyor-belt drag racing !! Go 100mph, press stop, then fly by at 200mph instantaneously !!!

The speed of the plane would NOT change -- you can stop it instantly or you can speed it up to 100 mph, the speed the plane progresses forward will never change...it will only effect the speed of the wheels.

[ISAtlanta300]

1) treadmill is going this way <----------

2) guy on skates is holding on to a string connected to the back of a ugly black square truck

**(ONLY reason he needs to hold on AT ALL is b/c we currently to not have ANY wheel bearings that are 100% efficient, so MINIMAL backwards motion will occur when the mill starts) ... this is negligent though.


*** stand on a moving treadmill with rollerblades, and I assure you the backwards motion will not be minimal. The weight of the person on the wheels will create resistance to the ground, and can only free-wheel if he is able to hold on/ compensate for the resistance by a direct and opposite force, hence the holding on.

3) truck drives (thrust) this way -----> (VTEC ENGAGES - OH SHITZ, HOLD ON SON!!!!!!)

Do we ALL agree that the idiot on the skates (as long as there is energy pushing/pulling him forward) will accelerate this way ----->???

Yes, UNLESSSSSSSS

4) conveyor belt moves (thrust) this way <------ (VTEC ENGAGES AS WELL MATCHING THE PULL/FORCE/THRUST/SPEED/ GIGGAWATT OF THE TRUCK- OH SHITZ, SON !!!! YOU AIN'T GOING NOWHERE!!! I BE FREE-WHEELING !!!!! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Conveyor belt surfing FTW !!!)))

[Echonova]

Think about it.

[Echonova]

The question states that the treadmill runs the same as the PLANES speed, not the wheel speed. They are two different things. The statement that the wheels were free-wheeling was not an accident.

Troof!!

[BABY J]

Yes, UNLESSSSSSSS

4) conveyor belt moves (thrust) this way <------ (VTEC ENGAGES AS WELL MATCHING THE PULL/FORCE/THRUST/SPEED/ GIGGAWATT OF THE TRUCK- OH SHITZ, SON !!!! YOU AIN'T GOING NOWHERE!!! I BE FREE-WHEELING !!!!! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Conveyor belt surfing FTW !!!)))

The only think the conveyor can match is the wheels spinning - which won't matter.



**sigh**


Okay - I will help you another way.

In the pic below. I want you to get the 2nd plate (from the top). You can NOT lift the top plate. You can only touch the 2nd plate and the top one. How do you do it?? You may lift the 2nd plate (BARELY) if needed.

[ISAtlanta300]

What prevents the plane from moving forward? Think about it!


Here's another analogy, on a skateboard and approaching a normal everyday treadmill that is on, you're rolling towards its then lean back shifting your weight behind the rear wheels lifting the front of the skateboard just before coming in contact with the treadmill....now the rear wheels are on the ground and the front two are on the treadmill. Are you going to fly backwards or just sit there spinning the front wheels?

You will be spinning the front wheels and sitting on your ass. But what does this have to do with anything?? Your weight is still shifted to solid, non-moving ground. Sit your entire fat ass on all four wheels on a moving treadmill and you WILL fly backwards with skateboard and all.

[BKgen®]

What prevents the plane from moving forward? Think about it!

in the problem, it states that the plane is moving one way while the belt is moving the opposite way at the same exact speed. Think about it. (-)10 + (+)10 = ZERO. the two speeds cancel each other out and the plane goes nowhere.

[BABY J]

in the problem, it states that the plane is moving one way while the belt is moving the opposite way at the same exact speed. Think about it. (-)10 + (+)10 = ZERO. the two speeds cancel each other out and the plane goes nowhere.

What you just admitted to is that the wheels spinning means nothing - which is what we want you to see. So, you got your -10 and you +10 - PERFECT!! Plane is going nowhere fast. Now fire up the JET engines to 100% - the plane moves forward yes? And if not - what is stopping it from moving forward.

[ISAtlanta300]

The only think the conveyor can match is the wheels spinning - which won't matter.

Of course in that scenario the plane will take off, and the ugly black square van will pull you.

But the original question does NOT have the conveyor match the speed of the wheels, but the speed of the plane/ mass, which could be interpreted that it is able to counteract any thrust/ forward motion of the plane itself by adjusting its speed accordingly.

[Echonova]

Let "assume" the plane can take off, but the plane and conveyor belt are at Hartsfield Jackson airport. Will the plane take off?