so I had chick-fil-a this morning

[.blank cd]

Get a job in the city, live downtown, walk to work. Or - Create your own bio-fuel.
Get an electric car, get a bicycle, etc. If you really wanted to stay away from foreign oil, you could.

It's more convienent to use regular gas though.

It's not the same for a myriad of reasons. One being we dont buy the majority of our oil from Saudi Arabia, nor does our refined gasoline come from the middle east. However, To completely rid yourself of petroleum to get rid of any trace of, you have to get rid of your car, stop buying plastics, stop using your debit and credit cards, stop wearing polyester clothes (you Christians should be doing it anyway, it's a sin, just like being gay is), stop buying shoes...etc. etc.

[Elbow]

Get a job in the city, live downtown, walk to work. Or - Create your own bio-fuel.
Get an electric car, get a bicycle, etc. If you really wanted to stay away from foreign oil, you could.

It's more convienent to use regular gas though.

Maybe if you REALLY wanted to.

It would be stupid though.

[.blank cd]

I support gay marriage and I believe in God. Anyone that doesn't support gay marriage has no real argument, it messes up tradition, it's dirty, blah blah blah. Anyone that brings in religion should remember that God is supposedly a forgiving and understanding man, times have changed, it's not like people decide to just go out and be gay because they have weird sexual desires, well some may, but the ones that we're speaking of don't fall in that group.

Thank you

Any argument against gay marriage is biblically motivated, you take the bible out of the equation and you have nothing.

And we all agree science has explored the possibility of genetic and hormonal factors for homosexuality, and that being gay is as much of a conscious choice as being straight.

[geoff]

Quote me where I made a biblical argument in this thread against homosexuality.

[.blank cd]

Quote me where I made a biblical argument in this thread against homosexuality.

It won't let me tag quote that much.

You can't make an argument against gay marriage without using a religious subtext.

[Sinfix_15]

It won't let me tag quote that much.

You can't make an argument against gay marriage without using a religious subtext.

Make an argument against gay people being allowed to have civil unions with all the same benefits of being married?

[geoff]

Sure you can. I don't want my children being exposed to that lifestyle. They have no shame. Look at any video of a gay pride parade....you don't see heterosexuals parading down a street in chaps and groping eachother and making out in public. I don't want my children to be taught that it's ok to explore their sexuality with the same gender. I want them to keep their views out of politics just as those with religious views are expected to.

[.blank cd]

Sure you can. I don't want my children being exposed to that lifestyle.

You believe being gay is against gods will. Biblical

They have no shame. Look at any video of a gay pride parade....you don't see heterosexuals parading down a street in chaps and groping eachother and making out in public.

Turn on the TV, walk outside of your home. Its all over the place.

I don't want my children to be taught that it's ok to explore their sexuality with the same gender.

Sexual repression, biblically rooted; any psychologist worth his salt will tell you that's dangerous. If your kid is gay, he's going to be gay no matter how much you repress his sexuality. Period. Regardless, gay marriage has absolutely nothing to do with that.

It would tickle me pink if your kid ended up being a homosexual, and to be honest, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

I want them to keep their views out of politics just as those with religious views are expected to.

No one is forcing you to marry a homosexual, Geoff. It will never happen. Ever. If gay marriage is unanimously passed, you would STILL not be forced marry a homosexual.

[ItODDospeed]

I see that there's religious-zealots are out here as well.

If gays/lesbians want to be married, who would I, or anyone be to stand in the way of what anyone wants. Some of the greatest founding Patriots of the U.S. stated (and I'm paraphrasing) that Christianity was the worst thing to happen to the U.S. Opposing what another wants for themselves is very anti-American. Freedom of religion is a founding spark to the U.S., and now some use their religion to bind others to their idealism. For shame...

FTR, most who are "offended" by public displays of affection by the same sex usually have the same thoughts inside their head. Usually they figure if they stop seeing the same sex PDA; then maybe it will leave their mind and others as well.

[bu villain]

Make an argument against gay people being allowed to have civil unions with all the same benefits of being married?

I think many people would be pretty happy with that but it's such an indirect way of doing it. If you think commited gay couples should have the same rights as "married" people, why create a new term when for the purposes of the law means exactly the same thing. It's kind of like the idea of separate but equal. If they have equal rights, why is a separate term needed? Christians can still believe marriage is only between one man and one woman but they shouldn't get to tell the state how to define marriage just as the state doesn't get to tell churchs who they can and cannot perform ceremonies for.

[bodhi]

haha, i love how geoff completely ignored my post.

[bodhi]

Sure you can. I don't want my children being exposed to that lifestyle. They have no shame. Look at any video of a gay pride parade....you don't see heterosexuals parading down a street in chaps and groping eachother and making out in public. I don't want my children to be taught that it's ok to explore their sexuality with the same gender. I want them to keep their views out of politics just as those with religious views are expected to.

you shivering abortion rolling around behind a dumpster, marinating in the fuming juice that oozes from garbage.

truthfully and no bullshit, that's got to be the stupidest thing to ever be said on importatlanta. your children are going to grow up closet-fags and scared to walk across the street without praying first. they're going to have nightmares of the boogeyman because you'll tell them something like "go to bed and be good or else it's gonna get you".

dogs are born with their eyes closed but eventually open them - what has stopped you!?

i just don't understand how someone could hold so much negativity in their pathetic little body. you, a man of christ, pretty much said that you will never expose your children to that lifestyle. you pretty much said that your children are TOO GOOD to be exposed to that horrific lifestyle. you have just said that it's disgusting and your children will hate those people just as much as you do. you're not even going to tell them about it (gay lifestyle), tell them why it happens, nor share inner wisdom. you as a parent have to teach your children the good, the bad, and the uglyness of the world. why hide the truth from them? are you going to FORCE your children to go to church and pray to something they cannot comprehend? especially as little ones!? religion and it's motivational teachings should be reserved until you're at least out of high school...

i mean, do you want your kids to become bullies in the name of god? because you know they will make fun of the kids in school who are "different"... right? as a parent you should teach them that it's okay to be different - to not follow the trends, to not allow others to make them cry, to be strong mentally. to stand up for themselves, to not blame god if something were to happen to you. to not blame god because he/she is overweight, to not blame god because they are not popular.

OPEN YOUR EYES, GEOFF!

jesus tap dancin' christ, evertime i read your posts i feel like going on a kitty killing spree i swear duh gawd

[Elbow]

You believe being gay is against gods will. Biblical

Turn on the TV, walk outside of your home. Its all over the place.

Sexual repression, biblically rooted; any psychologist worth his salt will tell you that's dangerous. If your kid is gay, he's going to be gay no matter how much you repress his sexuality. Period. Regardless, gay marriage has absolutely nothing to do with that.

It would tickle me pink if your kid ended up being a homosexual, and to be honest, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

No one is forcing you to marry a homosexual, Geoff. It will never happen. Ever. If gay marriage is unanimously passed, you would STILL not be forced marry a homosexual.

This pretty much covered my reply.

[bodhi]

Oh, before the lock, what it is, Alex! How are you and yours? Later, QD.

life's good, man


ive grown up so much and the daughter has made me so proud.


you a gangsta so i know your family is doing just as good, if not better.

[Apex1972]

I'm an selfish asshole that doesn't care about anything that doesn't effect me, and I like chicken.

just like the rest of Americans.

[quickdodge®]

It tarnishes the meaning of a tradition. I personally dont believe in burial rituals, but maybe you do. would it effect your life in any way if i purchased the local mortuary, dug up all of your deceased relatives and used them to fertilize my garden? would you lose your job if i did that? would your quality of life decrease if i did that?

To me, burial is a silly thing. I dont believe in it, i think its a waste of space, but i respect that you and/or other people believe in it and i show it respect. Gay people do not care about respecting the current institution of marriage or care about who they offend. So it's hard to care about offending them. So you cant get married? dont give a shit.

Mother fucker. I had a perfectly laid out response in my head this morning when I read your reply. Now that I get home, I can't remember shit that I had. But I had a great rebuttal to this. I do know it has something to do with something that everyone has a choice in. Everyone has that choice as to whether or not they want to be buried. Gay people do not have a choice to get married. I don't see why them having that option is such a big deal.

Unfortunately, the "gay rights" groups are not pursuing the proper methods to change the laws. I do not see state congressmen submitting propositions for voting on it. I see that the "gay rights" groups are attempting to circumvent the state laws by looking for a federal mandate to override state laws. That is "forcing the issue".

But why is "forcing the issue" your problem? Why do you care if gay people are allowed to get married. I don't know a lot about what's going on because it has no bearing on me.

life's good, man


ive grown up so much and the daughter has made me so proud.


you a gangsta so i know your family is doing just as good, if not better.

Great to read, dude. Yes, we're getting by, man, thanks.

I must also throw out an lolol at Geoff for being scared of gay people. Funny stuff. Later, QD.

[.blank cd]

Mother fucker. I had a perfectly laid out response in my head this morning when I read your reply. Now that I get home, I can't remember shit that I had. But I had a great rebuttal to this. I do know it has something to do with something that everyone has a choice in. Everyone has that choice as to whether or not they want to be buried. Gay people do not have a choice to get married. I don't see why them having that option is such a big deal.

I'll help you out QD...

Tarnishing the meaning of a tradition. LOL. No. Gay marriage wont tarnish the meaning of marriage at all. Straight marriage already has that wrapped up. Here are some examples...

US Woman gets married to a rollercoaster
Woman getting married to fairground ride - Telegraph

Zsa Zsa Gabour and Felipe DeAlba, married for less than 24 hrs, Zsa Zsa has been married and divorced NINE TIMES, Remember--Divorce is equally as damning in the bible as homosexual marriage. EQUALLY.

German man marries his cat
Going Postal: German man marries his dying cat, Cecilia | News | National Post

Britney Spears and Jason Alexander, married and annulled in less than 3 days.

Honestly, if I wanted to keep listing whimsical celebrity marriages and divorces, I'd need another thread...

So no, gay marriage doesnt tarnish the sanctity of marriage. That argument has been squashed.

[geoff]

Bodhi: I didn't respond to your posts simply because you are a dumb ass. I don't want to waste my time typing out a lengthy response to someone that acts like a child and thinks his intellect is superior to everyone else's. I asked blank this same question...what qualifies you to give your "expert" opinion? What studies and experiments have you personally conducted? In all honesty, your opinion is shit. It has no more weight than my own. There is expert opinion and studies that say being gay is not genetic. So what then makes pro gay researchers opinions any more true than those with differing opinions? Nothing...nothing at all. There is no conclusive evidence. That's why it is still being researched .

I don't need to be religious to know that another man taking a shot in the mouth is not right or normal. I also don't need to be religious to know the anus/colon is not meant to be plowed. It is not a sexual organ, it is for waste. You claim superior intellect yet you can't see those two simple truths. You and the rest like you come up with lame rebuttles and stupid jokes and call yourselves "intellects". I don't hate gays. Does gay sex disgust me, yes. Unlike you, I don't find a guy rimming a dudes ass attractive or beautiful. I have so much to say, but I can't ask God to forgive me for something I don't feel bad about. I'm stepping out of this thread because you and blank have exhausted me. It's like trying to teach long division to a freakin retard. This is not simply a religious issue for me. I have long determined that this world is too f@cked up to be "saved". Put the gay issue to a vote. The states that vote gay marriage, let em have it. Those that don't, don't. Stop trying to take the issue further than that. One last thing, I hope someday your son and daughter begin a sexual relationship and you walk in on it. Then you can applaud them for being "in love" and practicing a consented loving relationship. And don't worry about mutant offspring, your son can just stick to anal. Later, Geoff.

[.blank cd]

I don't need to be religious to know that another man taking a shot in the mouth is not right or normal. I also don't need to be religious to know the anus/colon is not meant to be plowed. It is not a sexual organ, it is for waste. You claim superior intellect yet you can't see those two simple truths

They're beliefs, not truths. You BELIEVE this

You and the rest like you come up with lame rebuttles and stupid jokes and call yourselves "intellects".

The word is intellectuals. We call ourselves intellectuals.

I don't hate gays.

Thats debatable.

Does gay sex disgust me, yes. Unlike you, I don't find a guy rimming a dudes ass attractive or beautiful. I have so much to say, but I can't ask God to forgive me for something I don't feel bad about. I'm stepping out of this thread because you and blank have exhausted me. It's like trying to teach long division to a freakin retard. This is not simply a religious issue for me. I have long determined that this world is too f@cked up to be "saved". Put the gay issue to a vote. The states that vote gay marriage, let em have it. Those that don't, don't. Stop trying to take the issue further than that. One last thing, I hope someday your son and daughter begin a sexual relationship and you walk in on it. Then you can applaud them for being "in love" and practicing a consented loving relationship. And don't worry about mutant offspring, your son can just stick to anal. Later, Geoff.

I've bolded a couple excerpts for your last post that have me disturbed and intrigued. As someone with a little Freudian psychology background, these excerpts make me believe you have some deep seeded issues. It troubles me that you may be experiencing some kind of sexual frustration, some feelings that have been repressed due to your beliefs.

[bodhi]

One last thing, I hope someday your son and daughter begin a sexual relationship and you walk in on it. Then you can applaud them for being "in love" and practicing a consented loving relationship. And don't worry about mutant offspring, your son can just stick to anal. Later, Geoff.

lol you know what's ironic about this?

according to your religious logic, the human race was pretty much created like that. daughters having sexual intercourse with their father, brother and sister, aunt and nephew, etc. etc.

man ain't that something? no evolution there, right? two people populated the entire earth. god bless us lol

on the real though, the only thing that will occur in the future with my son is him taking your daughter's virginity and anal-virginity all in one day, and also banging your miserable wife on the side... my daughter will break your son's heart for being an ugly, stupid ignorant lil' twerp in the form of humiliation infront of their high school cafeteria.

anyway, see ya later geoff, thanks for contributing jack shit to anothe religious-type of thread.

[geoff]

Bodhi and blank: maybe you two should get together and talk about feelings and how rich people are evil and Christians use magic to brainwash the population. You should do this after your game of dungeons and dragons and then "research" all that is to do with science so you can sound cool on a website no one really cares about. Then you can blow eachothers f@ck sticks until you fall asleep. Maybe tomorrow you will wake up with some commone sense and open ur eyes...that is after you wipe the fizz out of them. Good night

[RL...]

Geoff, you're an idiot. You just don't get it man. The rules which we live and define our culture are dependent upon time. The bible was written long enough ago that it is not relevant in our world today. Times have changed, people have changed. If you need a book to tell you that stealing and murder are sinful and wrong, than you're just a dumbass. And straight people make a mockery out of marriage, want proof, look at the divorce rate. People don't give a shit about marriage or about keeping its reputation. This comes down to one thing, people hating Gays which is kind of fucked up.

Geoff, you're the worst kind of Christian. You're over here telling people to "blow eachothers f@ck sticks until you fall asleep" among other things. Not very Christian like, which brings me to another point. Christians don't even follow the rules of their own religion.

[geoff]

I'm a Christian but I'm human too and we all have our limits. I've said it many times times before that I'm no model for Christianity. I purposely chose the words I used. Funny how when one talks down to a person with faith it's funny, yet flip the script and "shock and awe" your not a true Christian. You see, even atheists know Christians live to a higher code of morality. Just goes to show that an atheist can not show the same level of respect or humanity that a Christian would show them. Your whole post just let me know you know nothing about Christianity. We don't follow some ancient book. Everyone has morals. I don't need the Bible to tell me it's wrong, I already know it is. The bible is very much relevant to a Christians life, but I wouldn't expect you to know anything about that. You did say one thing true though. The bible is not relevant in this "modern" world. People don't care for Christ or what he did. He said Homself it would be like this. It does not surprise me. Soon enough though, every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that He is Lord. I just hope I get my act together by then, otherwise I'm I'm the same boat as these guys.

This world is beyond "saving". But maybe a few hungry souls looking for direction can find fulfillment in Christ. I like debating on this site. It lets you know what kind of people are out there. I have done my part to "evangelize" on here. No need to "preach" anything more than the cross of Calvary. It may seem foolish to you, but this message has helped some people on here. You would be surprised to see the responses I've received from such a simple message. As much as I can't stand Bodhi for his lack of respect or blank for his pig headedness, they are both children of God; so I apologize to both of you. Hopefully I have she'd some light to how ridiculous your attitudes are. God bless.

[.blank cd]

I think this is pretty relevant...

[Sinfix_15]

I think many people would be pretty happy with that but it's such an indirect way of doing it. If you think commited gay couples should have the same rights as "married" people, why create a new term when for the purposes of the law means exactly the same thing. It's kind of like the idea of separate but equal. If they have equal rights, why is a separate term needed? Christians can still believe marriage is only between one man and one woman but they shouldn't get to tell the state how to define marriage just as the state doesn't get to tell churchs who they can and cannot perform ceremonies for.

You answered a question with a question and i can answer it with the same question i asked you to begin with. Why change a tradition that a large portion of christians hold sacred? Why arent gay people happy with civil unions? they can be together, they can live together, they get benefits? why arent that happy with that?

Because they want the title "married". The same way christians want that title to remain between a man and woman. Who's right? neither? both?.... so there needs to be a compromise.

[Sinfix_15]

I think one of the problems in this thread is the way people argue. Bodhi vs Geoff, Bodhi just wants to call Geoff stupid which isnt the case. Even if you disagree with Geoff, which i do very often, he presents his argument well. In a debate like this, i dont want the other person to feel stupid, i want to convince them that what im saying is accurate. If all you do is read someone's post and make a list of "this is why youre stupid" comments, youre never gonna get anywhere. I try.... not always successfully, to ask a question that might stump your way of thinking or make you second guess your argument, not trying to make anyone feel stupid. By all means.... i like an aggressive approach, go at them..... but taking turns calling each other stupid isnt going to solve anything.

[Sinfix_15]

I think this is pretty relevant...

This is a valid argument, particularly the part about marriage being defined as a man and a women, which is the most common argument against gay marriage.

[David88vert]

It's not the same for a myriad of reasons. One being we dont buy the majority of our oil from Saudi Arabia, nor does our refined gasoline come from the middle east. However, To completely rid yourself of petroleum to get rid of any trace of, you have to get rid of your car, stop buying plastics, stop using your debit and credit cards, stop wearing polyester clothes (you Christians should be doing it anyway, it's a sin, just like being gay is), stop buying shoes...etc. etc.

LOL

Buy US made. You can make do if it is really that important to you (it's not to me).

Maybe if you REALLY wanted to.

It would be stupid though.

Point is, it is possible. Yes, I agree that it is not for most, including you and me.

[David88vert]

I see that there's religious-zealots are out here as well.

If gays/lesbians want to be married, who would I, or anyone be to stand in the way of what anyone wants. Some of the greatest founding Patriots of the U.S. stated (and I'm paraphrasing) that Christianity was the worst thing to happen to the U.S. Opposing what another wants for themselves is very anti-American. Freedom of religion is a founding spark to the U.S., and now some use their religion to bind others to their idealism. For shame...

FTR, most who are "offended" by public displays of affection by the same sex usually have the same thoughts inside their head. Usually they figure if they stop seeing the same sex PDA; then maybe it will leave their mind and others as well.

You are referring to Thomas Jefferson's letter to Joseph Priestly in 1801. You need to read it in context. Letters

Whole quote:
"I learnt some time ago that you were in Philadelphia, but that it was only for a fortnight; & supposed you were gone. It was not till yesterday I received information that you were still there, had been very ill, but were on the recovery. I sincerely rejoice that you are so. Yours is one of the few lives precious to mankind, & for the continuance of which every thinking man is solicitous. Bigots may be an exception. What an effort, my dear Sir, of bigotry in Politics & Religion have we gone through! The barbarians really flattered themselves they should be able to bring back the times of Vandalism, when ignorance put everything into the hands of power & priestcraft. All advances in science were proscribed as innovations. They pretended to praise and encourage education, but it was to be the education of our ancestors. We were to look backwards, not forwards, for improvement; the President himself declaring, in one of his answers to addresses, that we were never to expect to go beyond them in real science. This was the real ground of all the attacks on you. Those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy, -- the most sublime & benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man, to crush your well-earnt & well-deserved fame. But it was the Lilliputians upon Gulliver. Our countrymen have recovered from the alarm into which art & industry had thrown them; science & honesty are replaced on their high ground; and you, my dear Sir, as their great apostle, are on it's pinnacle. It is with heartfelt satisfaction that, in the first moments of my public action, I can hail you with welcome to our land, tender to you the homage of it's respect & esteem, cover you under the protection of those laws which were made for the wise and good like you, and disdain the legitimacy of that libel on legislation, which under the form of a law, was for some time placed among them."

[David88vert]

I think many people would be pretty happy with that but it's such an indirect way of doing it. If you think commited gay couples should have the same rights as "married" people, why create a new term when for the purposes of the law means exactly the same thing. It's kind of like the idea of separate but equal. If they have equal rights, why is a separate term needed? Christians can still believe marriage is only between one man and one woman but they shouldn't get to tell the state how to define marriage just as the state doesn't get to tell churchs who they can and cannot perform ceremonies for.

Currently, it is legally defined in each state. Just get enough people to tell their state congressman to change the law. It's that simple, but the gay community doesn't seem to be interested in doing it the proper legal way.

[David88vert]

But why is "forcing the issue" your problem? Why do you care if gay people are allowed to get married. I don't know a lot about what's going on because it has no bearing on me.

It is everyone's problem when they do not wish to follow the process to properly change the law. Everyone else has to petition their state congressmen when they want a marriage law changed, why should a specific special interest minority group be allowed to overthrow the normal process?

In 1996, GA enacted section 19-3-3.1 in the Georgia Code, stopping gay marriage in other states from being recognized in GA. The gay community has not even bothered to make much of a challenge to the law.

In 2004, GA's state congress passed SR 595, which ameded the GA state Constitution to define marriage as one man - one woman. Again, the gay community has not mounted any real challenge to the law.

Why can't the gay community work to change the GA law through the legal process? Do they think that they cannot get enough support?

[.blank cd]

LOL

Buy US made. You can make do if it is really that important to you (it's not to me).

Buy only US made products containing plastic produced by refined petroleum from the US? LOL. No. This isnt how crude oil works. You dont just go down to the store and buy it and refine it. Could you live without petroleum based products in your life? Maybe, but you'd lead a sad, miserable existence. No clothes, no blinds on your windows, and no heat in your home. No way to get to and from work except walking barefoot in the grass

[David88vert]

Buy only US made products containing plastic produced by refined petroleum from the US? LOL. No. This isnt how crude oil works. You dont just go down to the store and buy it and refine it. Could you live without petroleum based products in your life? Maybe, but you'd lead a sad, miserable existence. No clothes, no blinds on your windows, and no heat in your home. No way to get to and from work except walking barefoot in the grass

I never said that it would be easy..... and it wouldn't be for me.

I'm not the one calling for boycotts of CFA either though....

[.blank cd]

You are referring to Thomas Jefferson's letter to Joseph Priestly in 1801. You need to read it in context

The founding fathers were quite clear on their stance on Christianity, here are a couple letters. Make sure you read them in context...

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

"Give a loose to them, they will support the true religion, by bringing every false one to their tribunal, to the test of their investigation. They are the natural enemies of error, and of error only. Had not the Roman government permitted free enquiry, Christianity could never have been introduced. Had not free enquiry been indulged, at the aera of the reformation, the corruptions of Christianity could not have been purged away."

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity"

Here's some extra context. Remember, context is key

http://etext.virginia.edu/toc/modeng...c/JefVirg.html

Read Thomas Paines "The Age of Reason". Thomas Paine was a British deist, an american revolutionary, and a political activist, notable for his criticism and ridicule of the Christian church.

[David88vert]

The founding fathers were quite clear on their stance on Christianity, here are a couple letters. Make sure you read them in context...



Here's some extra context. Remember, context is key

Notes on the State of Virginia

Read Thomas Paines "The Age of Reason". Thomas Paine was a British deist, an american revolutionary, and a political activist, notable for his criticism and ridicule of the Christian church.

I did not say that Thomas Jefferson was a Christian, although he claimed in 1803 that he was in a letter to Benjamin Rush. He was involved in his local Episcopal Church, but most people had to be in order to keep up with what was happening in their community. He was definitely a deist, and not an atheist. Interestingly, he believed in Jesus, and his teachings, but not exactly in the Christian God as a non-material being.
This particular passage is often misquoted, hence the complete text is needed to understand his meaning more clearly.
BTW- Are you aware that Thomas Jefferson originally support a ban on clerics from being able to hold any public office? When he got older, he said that they had the same rights as anyone else to hold public office.

Thomas Paine was a diest and believed in God, but definitely did not believe in the Bible/Christianity. He also did not believe in organized religion.

[bodhi]

I think one of the problems in this thread is the way people argue. Bodhi vs Geoff, Bodhi just wants to call Geoff stupid which isnt the case. Even if you disagree with Geoff, which i do very often, he presents his argument well. In a debate like this, i dont want the other person to feel stupid, i want to convince them that what im saying is accurate. If all you do is read someone's post and make a list of "this is why youre stupid" comments, youre never gonna get anywhere. I try.... not always successfully, to ask a question that might stump your way of thinking or make you second guess your argument, not trying to make anyone feel stupid. By all means.... i like an aggressive approach, go at them..... but taking turns calling each other stupid isnt going to solve anything.

this isn't a thread in the religious/politics section, dork

ot means whoreslounge which means post the way ya fuckin' want. plus, religious arguments have never accomplished what an atheist or believer hopes for. the point for me was never to solve anything, since everything i've stated is completely true, whereas geoff has only posted his faith - no true facts about anything.
i presented verses from the bible that contradicts itself (VERY basic approach), which is why geoff couldn't tackle it

responding with a question is not my style...quick and aggressively making your point wins arguments

[bodhi]

to be honest, i didn't think this was gonna turn into what it did...

i thought we were gonna end up discussing fast food or the horrible process in which we get our chicken

[Sinfix_15]

this isn't a thread in the religious/politics section, dork

ot means whoreslounge which means post the way ya fuckin' want. plus, religious arguments have never accomplished what an atheist or believer hopes for. the point for me was never to solve anything, since everything i've stated is completely true, whereas geoff has only posted his faith - no true facts about anything.
i presented verses from the bible that contradicts itself (VERY basic approach), which is why geoff couldn't tackle it

responding with a question is not my style...quick and aggressively making your point wins arguments

you're guilty of the same thing he is, but actually more so. You use "not true because it's in the bible" at least as much as he uses the the bible as a reference. You cant declare that you're right on the issue of religion and say that he's wrong anytime he uses the bible. You dont win arguments from thinking that you're right.... hell, i think i'm right about everything. I'll consider the argument "won" when i convince you that i'm right. So far, Geoff doesnt seem to be anywhere near considering your argument.

"im right, you're stupid" is not winning an argument. I want to make Geoff second guess the bible or to produce a question that he cant find the answer for, anything that changes his way of thinking. Then i will consider that a victory. Declaring yourself the winner of an argument is usually a sign that you're not winning an argument. If you have to declare to the other person that you're right, your argument obviously wasnt that compelling.

and as previously stated.... again, you walk the path i laid out for you and responded to me the same way you do Geoff, with a declaration of your own perceived intellect followed by an insult. You know this isnt a rap battle right?

[Sinfix_15]

to be honest, i didn't think this was gonna turn into what it did...

i thought we were gonna end up discussing fast food or the horrible process in which we get our chicken

Something 10x more offensive than Chick-fil-a commenting on gay marriage....... Mcdonalds thinking they can get away with the late night menu.

[geoff]

Bodhi: listen man, you seem like an intelligent person despite your snide remarks and lackluster jokes. You wanna debate me on religion, that's fine. Start a new thread with whatever religious issue is and pour your little heart out. It would be hard to debate me as I live my life and study theology, but by all means have at it sir. I apologize for any insults, that's not the way I do things nor the "image" I wish to portray. I had to do it to show you just how "out of hand" it gets when people just start insulting one another. It goes from a debate to that "yo momma show" that fez from that 70's show hosts. Make a thread and I will gladly debate you.

Now, to stay on topic. The CEO of CFA commented on his beliefs of marriage. Now the gay community is in an uproar. They "preach" equality yet get their panties in a bundle when someone of power and influence doesn't share their beliefs or sentiments. They also cry hatred because they don't like where his company donates its charitable proceeds. Well, as far as I know, we still have the rights to free speech and to donate money to whomever we wish. Serious question, why don't atheists protest CFA? How about those whom have been divorced? After all, Mr. Cathy also made a comment about still being married to his first wife. Do you not see the irony here? Any way, make a thread about the religious stuff and then make one about gay genetics and lets have at it with guns blazing...