I think one of the problems in this thread is the way people argue. Bodhi vs Geoff, Bodhi just wants to call Geoff stupid which isnt the case. Even if you disagree with Geoff, which i do very often, he presents his argument well. In a debate like this, i dont want the other person to feel stupid, i want to convince them that what im saying is accurate. If all you do is read someone's post and make a list of "this is why youre stupid" comments, youre never gonna get anywhere. I try.... not always successfully, to ask a question that might stump your way of thinking or make you second guess your argument, not trying to make anyone feel stupid. By all means.... i like an aggressive approach, go at them..... but taking turns calling each other stupid isnt going to solve anything.