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Thread: The God Delusion-Richard Dawkins

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    jort enthusiast alpine_aw11's Avatar
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    Default The God Delusion-Richard Dawkins

    This is probably the wrong section, but I'm just wondering if anyone else has read this masterpiece. Plus this is the only section anyone cares about. I finally got it yesterday and I can't put it down. Anyone, religious or not, as long as you don't have shit for brains seeing as you wouldn't understand it, should read this book. Dawkins is blowing me away with this stuff, anyone who is anti-atheist should definitely pick this up to clear their understandings.

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    Pick up "The Antichrist" by Nietzsche

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    Probably about as mind-blowing as The Purpose Driven Life. Meh.

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    I guess it depends on whether you agree with what he's saying or not. I thought it was going to be really abrasive, I was surprised. The clerk at Borders looked at me like I was Satan when I bought it.

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    Delightfully Creepy Ran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    I guess it depends on whether you agree with what he's saying or not. I thought it was going to be really abrasive, I was surprised. The clerk at Borders looked at me like I was Satan when I bought it.
    Any argument can be persuasive if written well. I've read my fair share of religious and anti-religious literature and they're always hit and miss. I might flip through it the next time I'm at the bookstore, but most of these types of books just spout off the same roundabout justification while throwing mud in as much of a non-offensive manner as possible.

    Can you throw us anymore info on this one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ran
    Any argument can be persuasive if written well. I've read my fair share of religious and anti-religious literature and they're always hit and miss. I might flip through it the next time I'm at the bookstore, but most of these types of books just spout off the same roundabout justification while throwing mud in as much of a non-offensive manner as possible.

    Can you throw us anymore info on this one?
    I'm not even halfway through it yet. With most anti-religious texts it deals with just negating any proof, but it goes more in depth than just criticizing the existence of God as a religious person would know. It deals more with the moral aspects and human nature. Another part of it I liked was criticizing the notion that religion can't be criticized, although his goal is clearly to convert people towards atheism it's very interesting regardless of your religious views. Dawkins is very interesting, his perspective is different from the average anti-religous man considering his educational background. I also like him because he recognizes the possibility that god does exist, he just mainly negates God in religous contexts. There is a chapter devoted why God "almost certainly" does not exist but it definitely isn't typical anti-religious rhetoric. It would be worth a try for you I'm sure, but this book probably speaks to me a lot more (no bad intentions from that) than it would to you. My views align with his pretty consistently so that probably makes my perspective a little biased.

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    Slowest Car on IA David88vert's Avatar
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    Dawkins is a zoologist, and pretends to understand genetics. In reality, he makes up his terminology and ignores the observed behavior of genetic coding. The biggest issue is that he determines what he wants the result to be, then only uses theorys and facts that support his viewpoint, and discards all others. His well-documented hatred for the structure of the Church of England is what fuels his literary dictation railing against God.

    And yes, you are in the wrong section. You should have this moved.

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    Curiously Cynical DrivenMind's Avatar
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    I just finished "God Is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens about a month ago. I told the conservative jesus monger in the library that I wanted to hear "the insane heretics" were talking about and she eyed me with suspicion. I think she knew I was being sarcastic but she told me "we'll you be mad at him for expressing his opinion..."

    Of course when I came back to pick up several books by Stephen Hawking and Hunter S Thompson she knew I was freak.

    A Brief History of Time was fucking awesome though.

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    Delightfully Creepy Ran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    I'm not even halfway through it yet. With most anti-religious texts it deals with just negating any proof, but it goes more in depth than just criticizing the existence of God as a religious person would know. It deals more with the moral aspects and human nature.
    If it's less on the criticizing part and more of the debate of information and fact then I'm in.

    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    Another part of it I liked was criticizing the notion that religion can't be criticized, although his goal is clearly to convert people towards atheism it's very interesting regardless of your religious views. Dawkins is very interesting, his perspective is different from the average anti-religous man considering his educational background.
    I don't see how religion can't be criticized since it happens everyday, but perhaps I'm not understanding the meaning behind that. Any anti-religious text has the same intention just as any religious text does. Anyone that can't accept that notion going into it is ignorant to begin with. Also, more often than not, the writers of such pieces have some sort of educational background. Atheist text written by former church officials, religious text written by college professors, it's nothing uncommon. It does help though.

    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    I also like him because he recognizes the possibility that god does exist, he just mainly negates God in religous contexts. There is a chapter devoted why God "almost certainly" does not exist but it definitely isn't typical anti-religious rhetoric.
    Sounds like he's merely padding the attack as to try and not spark any direct conflict. It's also a good way of rallying cautious non-religious readers to reinforce themselves without saying they're completely denying the possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    It would be worth a try for you I'm sure, but this book probably speaks to me a lot more (no bad intentions from that) than it would to you. My views align with his pretty consistently so that probably makes my perspective a little biased.
    We all have our biased sides. I am pretty accepting of the fact that there is some sort of higher existence such as God, gods, reincarnation, or whatever but am well aware that there are just as many arguments going for it as there are against it. I may actually pick this up and give it a run through. Again, it'll all depend on the delivery of the argument more than anything but, considering your brief synopsis, it sounds pretty interesting. Thanks!

    (You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to alpine_xj again.)

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    Curiously Cynical DrivenMind's Avatar
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    I know this is a serious issue but this quote by Hitchens made me laugh my ass off. IRL

    "I pose a hypothetical question. As a man of some fifty-seven years of age, imagine I am discovered sucking the penis of a baby boy. I ask you to picture your own outrage and revulsion. Ah, but I have my explanation all ready. I am a mohel: an appointed circumciser and foreskin remover. My authority comes from an ancient text, which commands me to take a baby boy's penis in my hand, cut around the prepuce, and complete the action by taking his penis in my mouth, sucking off the foreskin, and spitting out the amputated flap along with a mouthful of blood and saliva."

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrivenMind
    I know this is a serious issue but this quote by Hitchens made me laugh my ass off. IRL

    "I pose a hypothetical question. As a man of some fifty-seven years of age, imagine I am discovered sucking the penis of a baby boy. I ask you to picture your own outrage and revulsion. Ah, but I have my explanation all ready. I am a mohel: an appointed circumciser and foreskin remover. My authority comes from an ancient text, which commands me to take a baby boy's penis in my hand, cut around the prepuce, and complete the action by taking his penis in my mouth, sucking off the foreskin, and spitting out the amputated flap along with a mouthful of blood and saliva."


    Yea atheist writers tend to have a good sense of humor. The Dawkins book is very funny as well, I'm sure you would love it.

    And to Ran-The book doesn't necessarily debate facts for religion, because, uhhhhh, there aren't any. But it does present all the arguments, which he precedes to sarcastically tear down in an intelligent way. If you wouldn't find it intellectually stimulating you would probably find it humorous in the least. He definitely doesn't "soften up" anything. You're average Jesus freak would get PISSED at this book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David88vert
    Dawkins is a zoologist, and pretends to understand genetics. In reality, he makes up his terminology and ignores the observed behavior of genetic coding. The biggest issue is that he determines what he wants the result to be, then only uses theorys and facts that support his viewpoint, and discards all others. His well-documented hatred for the structure of the Church of England is what fuels his literary dictation railing against God.

    And yes, you are in the wrong section. You should have this moved.
    Proof of any of these accusations?

    And if you read the book you would definitely know the comment you made on his views of the Church of England is bullshit.

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    i swear to god im e in love with you.

    a, because you have the cybernetic ghost of christmas past in your sig
    and b, because you are referring to an awesome literary work.

    we need to meet up irl one day and see the movie Religulous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    I'm not even halfway through it yet. With most anti-religious texts it deals with just negating any proof, but it goes more in depth than just criticizing the existence of God as a religious person would know. It deals more with the moral aspects and human nature. biased.
    There is no such thing as human nature. There is only human behavior. Greed, corruption, good and bad, are all things religion teaches us as human nature but these traits are as natural as wearing clothing. Humans aren't born bad, good, evil, corrupt, or so forth. We are as we are because of outside influences that have shaped our personalities. This is the truth, whether you believe it or not.

    And all religion is BS. There might or might be some supernatural entity that created everything, that is impossible to prove/dissprove. But religion, especially christianity is joke, and christianity is a rip off of egyptian mythology. Christianity has ripped off of so many religions it's just a big joke. Do some research, it's true.

    The ONLY THING RELIGION OFFERS IS INTANGIBLE EMOTIONAL SOLICE FOR THOSE THAT REQUIRE IT, IT SOLVES NOTHING, IN FACT IT DOES QUITE THE OPPOSITE, IT CREATES PROBLEMS.




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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj


    Yea atheist writers tend to have a good sense of humor. The Dawkins book is very funny as well, I'm sure you would love it.

    And to Ran-The book doesn't necessarily debate facts for religion, because, uhhhhh, there aren't any. But it does present all the arguments, which he precedes to sarcastically tear down in an intelligent way. If you wouldn't find it intellectually stimulating you would probably find it humorous in the least. He definitely doesn't "soften up" anything. You're average Jesus freak would get PISSED at this book.
    you should visit http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/ and watch the zeitgeist addendum movie. Interesting stuff....


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    I'm very familiar with both Zeitgeist installments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by osnap
    i swear to god im e in love with you.

    a, because you have the cybernetic ghost of christmas past in your sig
    and b, because you are referring to an awesome literary work.

    we need to meet up irl one day and see the movie Religulous.
    Awwwww, I e-love you too. I would def. be down to see Religulous.

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    Senior Member metalman's Avatar
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    Making fun of phony Christian beliefs/religions is easy.
    What cracks me up is that some people are so driven and interested in trying to 'disprove' the existence of God with mere weak human philosophies...while totally disregarding any/all physical evidences that might be around them. I have to ask myself...what is it they really fear? Why does it matter to them so much that there might be a Creator or a God?
    Ahh yes...little things like accountability and judgment....thats it. Its all about hoping such doesn't exist. If it was only about origins it wouldnt matter much at all. Its the pesky future that concerns folks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalman
    Making fun of phony Christian beliefs/religions is easy.
    What cracks me up is that some people are so driven and interested in trying to 'disprove' the existence of God with mere weak human philosophies...while totally disregarding any/all physical evidences that might be around them. I have to ask myself...what is it they really fear? Why does it matter to them so much that there might be a Creator or a God?
    Ahh yes...little things like accountability and judgment....thats it. Its all about hoping such doesn't exist. If it was only about origins it wouldnt matter much at all. Its the pesky future that concerns folks.
    Agreed, why do these morons feel that they have a right to tell people what to think? I'm not religious but I have to say that anti-religious people are the cancer of our society. There is a difference between being atheist/agnostic and being the douchebag who spends his life trying to disprove/argue against religions. I find it hard to believe that people are that closed-minded, but I see them every day so...

    If you aren't religious just live your damn life.. How does it make sense to disbelieve in something yet center your life around it?
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    LOLOLOLOL you guys are acting like Dawkins put a gun to every religious person's head and made them read the book. And also being an Atheist doesn't mean you don't believe in a God. You guys are acting like this is some petty debate, but um I have a feeling it's important. If neither of you can grasp that concept, that's not my problem.

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    I like to argue when it comes to this topic. But recently I've moved away from trying to make people see eye to eye with me and rather just laugh at them and call them idiots. I mean, I'm sure not all of them are but the majority of them are.

    Absence and presence create a new duality, for starters. If God is all powerful and created human beings, how can human beings act outside God's power?

    What gets to me is when people always use evil or satan when something 'bad' happens. I know this is offtopic but first find me a way to measure "God" before people claim "evil" is the absence of it. That's all I ask. I know David and metalman are both smart enough to argue about this for days. But like I said, this whole religion thing is fun to make fun of but trying to debate it will get us no where.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    LOLOLOLOL you guys are acting like Dawkins put a gun to every religious person's head and made them read the book. And also being an Atheist doesn't mean you don't believe in a God. You guys are acting like this is some petty debate, but um I have a feeling it's important. If neither of you can grasp that concept, that's not my problem.
    Atheism literally mean "without god" so I don't know where you pulled that from... No one's debating here I simply posted what I felt on the subject and I'll leave it at that. Wasn't a personal attack on you, just my thoughts on the ego-tripping people who write these things. No shame in reading them (I've read plenty) I believe that hearing someone's viewpoint can be very important. But to be honest I'm just getting sick of closed-minded fools that think they are right on a subject that know one knows the answer to...

    PS: Oh Jesus, it's the Maniac lol Let the shit fest begin!!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fcman
    PS: Oh Jesus, it's the Maniac lol Let the shit fest begin!!!!!!!!
    Hydro + religion discussion = win. We should try it. LOL

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    hey maniac and alpine...

    HEATHEN SQUAD ASSSSSEMMMMBLLEEEEEE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fcman
    Atheism literally mean "without god" so I don't know where you pulled that from... No one's debating here I simply posted what I felt on the subject and I'll leave it at that. Wasn't a personal attack on you, just my thoughts on the ego-tripping people who write these things. No shame in reading them (I've read plenty) I believe that hearing someone's viewpoint can be very important. But to be honest I'm just getting sick of closed-minded fools that think they are right on a subject that know one knows the answer to...

    PS: Oh Jesus, it's the Maniac lol Let the shit fest begin!!!!!!!!
    You can be an Atheist and still acknowledge the possibility of God existing, like myself. Before reading into this (not just this book) I placed myself as an agnostic, but that just means believing that we will never know whether God exists or not and living on as such. I like Dawkins because he never actually says God doesn't exist, he's just 99% sure about it. I agree with you though, a lot of people are just ego-tripping assholes simply trying to insult people's beliefs. They do suck, but I think it's just retaliation to religious dickwads that say you're going to burn in hell if Jesus isn't your one and only savior. I know I've always remained realtively calm about my views, but I've had to go ape shit on some inbred Christians in my day and would gladly do it again if provoked.


    PS.......who said bud?

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    all e-gay jokes aside, its uncanny how often we see eye-to-eye on some things, this included.

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    No osnap, I'm not going to fellate you.

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    had to try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maniako
    Hydro + religion discussion = win. We should try it. LOL
    MMMM.... sounds tempting

    I've been sober for about 3 months though so I'd probably be a zombie, but I guess that might help me explain the whole jesus resurrection/zombie thing...
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    I'm gonna add something random as hell right now.

    This is a copy and paste of something I posted in my blog. It's fucking sweet!

    Before I begin, I'm not a Satanist. But the actual subject of Satanism kinda intrigues me, considering all the misconceptions people seem to have about it. With a little reading, it's seen that Satanism doesn't actually involve killing goats, sodomizing children, sacrificies, rituals or any of that bullocks that commonly gets thrown around. That is the doing of cults, which are on a totally seperate track. Basically extremism in the same way that you see Muslim extremists blowing themselves up on the news. In the most general sense, the devil has nothing to do with it. From what I've seen, it's just a self-help lifestyle in which you're supposed to look out for yourself first and foremost, indulge in what you can, and take responsibility for your mistakes instead of pleading to some god for mercy and help that you're not going to get.

    The 11 Satanic rules are as follows...

    1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
    2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure that they want to hear them.
    3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
    4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
    5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
    6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the person and he cries out to be relieved.
    7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have used it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
    8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
    9. Do not harm little children.
    10. Do not kill non-human animals unless attacked or for your food.
    11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

    Seems to make sense to me. A hell of a lot more sense than the 10 commandments. Except for the bit about magic, of which I have no opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fcman
    MMMM.... sounds tempting

    I've been sober for about 3 months though so I'd probably be a zombie, but I guess that might help me explain the whole jesus resurrection/zombie thing...
    Hahaha, we should definitely set something up in the future.

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    hellaflush=hellafad osnap's Avatar
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    interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    You can be an Atheist and still acknowledge the possibility of God existing, like myself.
    By definition, you're agnostic.

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    agnostic existentialist, checking in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    You can be an Atheist and still acknowledge the possibility of God existing, like myself. Before reading into this (not just this book) I placed myself as an agnostic, but that just means believing that we will never know whether God exists or not and living on as such. I like Dawkins because he never actually says God doesn't exist, he's just 99% sure about it. I agree with you though, a lot of people are just ego-tripping assholes simply trying to insult people's beliefs. They do suck, but I think it's just retaliation to religious dickwads that say you're going to burn in hell if Jesus isn't your one and only savior. I know I've always remained realtively calm about my views, but I've had to go ape shit on some inbred Christians in my day and would gladly do it again if provoked.


    PS.......who said bud?
    I feel you on that and I too dislike the forcefully religious, to me though the difference is that most religious people (even some of the forceful ones) seem to be genuinely interested in helping people (at least they think they are helping people) I just never get that vibe from the other side.
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    I've always found Satanism to be extremely interesting. If I had to align myself with a religion philosophically Satanism would honestly be the closest match. I mean there's some weird fucking shit running around in some Satanic ideology (i.e. the magic stuff, I mean really?) but the basic ideas seem to make MUCH more sense than believing in the Christian God and "his" values.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maniako
    By definition, you're agnostic.
    Technically, no. The true definition of Agnosticism is that there is equal evidence existing that God exists, and that God doesn't exist. I personally cannot completely deny God's existance, but I'm about 80% sure there isn't an intelligent being watching me shower every morning, which excludes osnap of course. I really don't understand the concept of Atheists that can acknowledge the possibility of God, but according to Dawkins and other atheist writers Atheism does not necessarily exclude it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    Technically, no. The true definition of Agnosticism is that there is equal evidence existing that God exists, and that God doesn't exist.
    I know this.

    But this is what you said.

    You can be an Atheist and still acknowledge the possibility of God existing, like myself.
    Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.

    The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

    So, what are you? If you were a real atheist you wouldn't have a God figure in the back of your mind. You would instead put that aside and completely ignore the fact that there might be a God out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    I've always found Satanism to be extremely interesting. If I had to align myself with a religion philosophically Satanism would honestly be the closest match. I mean there's some weird fucking shit running around in some Satanic ideology (i.e. the magic stuff, I mean really?) but the basic ideas seem to make MUCH more sense than believing in the Christian God and "his" values.
    no offense, but how can one believe in Satan but not in God? They're both part of the Christian religion, correct...?


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