FWD-RWD-AWD

[man]

some people in this thread......... have no idea what their talking about.

Agreed

[matthewAPM]

Well a little oversteer is good if you can control it because you can use it to tighten your line to get through a corner faster.

correct. its called slip angle.

some people in this thread......... have no idea what their talking about.

lol. +1.

[0p7!mu5]

i've driven both i love fwd but damn yo rwd made my old 323 look like a champ from the piece of crap it was..

[gijeff1805]

AWD better launching...

[On_Her_Face]

rear wheel drive is the most fun, awd is fun too

[EM1toEVO]

I've had all three, and I prefer AWD.

[Echonova]

I'm thinking Arby's.

[EM1toEVO]

I'm thinking Arby's.

I see the little cowboy hat over your avatar, lol!

[Barefoot]

rwd ftw

[blackshine007]

boobs are fun

[matthewAPM]

drift is holding the car sideways for a period of time...not fast

slip angle is more of a rotation into a corner.

[man]

drift is holding the car sideways for a period of time...not fast

slip angle is more of a rotation into a corner.

Slip angle is the angular difference between the direction the tire is moving and the way it is pointing.

[matthewAPM]

Slip angle is the angular difference between the direction the tire is moving and the way it is pointing.

thats pretty much what i said, just tuned down for IA.

[OneSlow5pt0]

i voted fwd

[Jecht]

It is VERY difficult to get a FWD car to oversteer without letting off the throttle. Blackshine, in BOTH those videos you posted, the drivers are letting off the gas to get the rear to slide. In the case of that "drift" Civic, he grabs the ebrake first so that it swings out, and he lets off of the gas. It is also easier to do in that car because of the short wheel base and high spring rates in the rear. If you listen to Jeremy in the second video you posted from Top Gear, at exactly 00:49 seconds into the video Jeremy says "if you turn into a corner without the power on, the back slides around."

You REALLY don't know what you are talking about.

The reason that Type R Civic from the Top Gear video slides when you let off the gas is because of the stiffer rear springs and larger rear sway bar. You can tell it has those stiff rear suspension bits because of the way it lifts the inner wheel in a corner.

[Jecht]

Lets put it this way: ANY loss of traction is stupid and will slow you down significantly. The only reason understeer is seen as bad is because it can only hurt the line you take around a corner, unlike oversteer where you can use to tighten the line closer to the inside of the corner.

[EJ25RUN]

Lets put it this way: ANY loss of traction is stupid and will slow you down significantly. The only reason understeer is seen as bad is because it can only hurt the line you take around a corner, unlike oversteer where you can use to tighten the line closer to the inside of the corner.

You make "hurting your line around a corner" seem like its not all that bad.

It is!

Oversteer hurts the tires (im not talking about drifting).
In a race or even a street car, a loose backend keeps you from giving power to the car. Less power means slower car.

to add.

A car with controllable oversteer typically has a very good suspension setup. A very good suspension setup can be driven to not oversteer.

[Jecht]

You make "hurting your line around a corner" seem like its not all that bad.

It is!

Oversteer hurts the tires (im not talking about drifting).
In a race or even a street car, a loose backend keeps you from giving power to the car. Less power means slower car.

to add.

A car with controllable oversteer typically has a very good suspension setup. A very good suspension setup can be driven to not oversteer.

Well, understeer isn't bad for beginner drivers. It's easy enough to avoid, all you have to do is let off the gas. I wouldn't want a loose rear end on ANY car, but I would certainly love a car that is mostly neutral with some slight oversteer at the limit.

Just to confuse Blackshine some more: Nissan's 240sx is set up to understeer from the factory.

[EJ25RUN]

Well, understeer isn't bad for beginner drivers. It's easy enough to avoid, all you have to do is let off the gas. I wouldn't want a loose rear end on ANY car, but I would certainly love a car that is mostly neutral with some slight oversteer at the limit.

Just to confuse Blackshine some more: Nissan's 240sx is set up to understeer from the factory.

correct.... due to the fact manufactures know most people cant drive very well, most cars are designed to under steer

thanx for my 1500 rep point

[matthewAPM]

You make "hurting your line around a corner" seem like its not all that bad.

It is!

Oversteer hurts the tires (im not talking about drifting).
In a race or even a street car, a loose backend keeps you from giving power to the car. Less power means slower car.

to add.

A car with controllable oversteer typically has a very good suspension setup. A very good suspension setup can be driven to not oversteer.

correct. to much oversteer and you will overheat your tires. my car can be a oversteer freak or as neutral as can be depending how its driven. the setup is very good and i can make it do exactly what i want it to. this allows me to rotate the car into tighter corners but be very stable on sweepers.

there is a difference between slip angle or rotation and drifting. like Jecht said, it helps bring a car into the apex allowing you to have a faster entry to a corner.

So basicly, you're telling me that a FWD car is by no means capable of oversteer due to the drivetrain configuration?

I could possibly help you with your suspension set up, what's your specs front and rear and what's the average speed you do around a track? I'm not trying to be an ass, but honestly I try to help out anyone. Are you shallow enough not to listen or do you know everything? PM me your specs and we can converse there.

i never said it couldnt oversteer? i actually said it doesnt oversteer becuase of applying power...like you said it would. have you ever tried to do what your talking about? setup has nothing to do with it. no matter if its a stock honda or a FWD BTCC car, applying the power is not going to make a FWD car drift. explain how you make a FWD car throttle oversteer...

have YOU help me with my setup? why should i believe you could help setup my car when you sig says "Fear my insanely terrible driving habits" ? LMAO. why would I mess with something that works. i wouldnt let you touch my car if you paid me. you couldnt help sh!t. your a stupid mothafawka and couldnt tell someone the first thing about car setup or driving. you are stupid for trying to prove me and EJ25RUN wrong. idk who the hells been teaching you about handling characteristics, but they are wrong. give it up.

EJ25RUN and Jecht..reps

[blackshine007]

correct. to much oversteer and you will overheat your tires. my car can be a oversteer freak or as neutral as can be depending how its driven. the setup is very good and i can make it do exactly what i want it to. this allows me to rotate the car into tighter corners but be very stable on sweepers.

there is a difference between slip angle or rotation and drifting. like Jecht said, it helps bring a car into the apex allowing you to have a faster entry to a corner.

i never said it couldnt oversteer? i actually said it doesnt oversteer becuase of applying power...like you said it would

I believe you said it right when will over steer when lifting off the throttle during a corner. I had it wrong. Most apologies.

. have you ever tried to do what your talking about? setup has nothing to do with it. no matter if its a stock honda or a FWD BTCC car, applying the power is not going to make a FWD car drift. explain how you make a FWD car throttle oversteer...

I wasn't trying to convince anyone that a FWD car can drift, just given the particular set up the back end can come out, which could've been an improper set up of suspension (rear zero camber and positive toe with stiffer springs/strut and sway bar and high tread wear tires instead of R compound tires) but with sticky tires up front. In the first vid, the civic was clearly pulling the e-brake. But drifting is drifting, just not in the traditional way.

have YOU help me with my setup? why should i believe you could help setup my car when you sig says "Fear my insanely terrible driving habits" ? LMAO. why would I mess with something that works. i wouldnt let you touch my car if you paid me. you couldnt help sh!t. your a stupid mothafawka and couldnt tell someone the first thing about car setup or driving. you are stupid for trying to prove me and EJ25RUN wrong. idk who the hells been teaching you about handling characteristics, but they are wrong. give it up.

I wouldn't go that far. I do have experience in suspensions. I'll be the positive one and say to each is own. I'll concieve and say that you made your point. My key words was "depending upon suspension set up" which should have included tires as well. But oh well, can't win them all, huh?

[matthewAPM]

I have a serious question. My Yaris hatcback had a tendency to swing the back end around instead of understeer. The tires would grip and refused to send me into an understeer situation. Probably due to my lack of power and torque. However the backend, with it's stiff-as-hell suspension setup and lack of rear weight, wouldn't hesistate to come swinging around and have my nose pointing at the inside ditch. It was easy to control, but it felt...awkward. Would this in anyway be considered oversteer or just rotation?





As for which do I prefer between AWD, RWD, or FWD? First off, I don't have much experience with AWD so I'll omit it completely. I'd have to say it depends on what I'm wanting to do. 2/7 of the cars I've owned have been FWD and I've never had any problems with them. I found their characteristics more predicatible and easier to control. RWD has definitely been more fun in the long run. Being both at drift events and regular track events, the RWD cars have always been enjoyable. So again, I'm not particularly biased towards one or the other.

The reason the yaris does that is because of its setup. What you are feeling is rotation. The reason you feel like its a lot of oversteer is because A. ur not use to it and B. no enough experience in a FWD car. There is a art to driving a FWD car fast. As stupid as it sounds, you steer the car with the gas and brake. coming into a turn, brake, lift towards the apex, then mid turn mat that gas pedel to the floor and thats a FWD turn in some what basic terms. The number one problem people have with driving a FWD car is they drive a RWD car and get use to when the car gets sideways, they steer out of the corner and apply the brakes or apply a little throttle depending on the car. In a FWD when the car oversteers, you are going to steer out of the corner then immediately into the corner applying the gas the entire time.



Yes, FWD can be just as competitive as a RWD car when there are class limitations making the cars equal, but when there are no limitations to drivetrain, RWD will always be used.


Blakeshine007, thank you for admiting you were wrong. Most people on IA wouldnt do that. You have gained my respect sir.

[Ran]

Does the backend start to swing out under braking or does it step out when you get back on the power?

Doesn't really seem to matter from what I've noticed. If I was taking the corner at a high rate of speed, the whole backend would just swing around and then I was forced to correct/control the car with steering and throttle control.

The reason the yaris does that is because of its setup. What you are feeling is rotation. The reason you feel like its a lot of oversteer is because A. ur not use to it and B. no enough experience in a FWD car. There is a art to driving a FWD car fast. As stupid as it sounds, you steer the car with the gas and brake. coming into a turn, brake, lift towards the apex, then mid turn mat that gas pedel to the floor and thats a FWD turn in some what basic terms. The number one problem people have with driving a FWD car is they drive a RWD car and get use to when the car gets sideways, they steer out of the corner and apply the brakes or apply a little throttle depending on the car. In a FWD when the car oversteers, you are going to steer out of the corner then immediately into the corner applying the gas the entire time.

Thanks for the info. The first time I drove the Yaris on a mountain, I was surprised when the backend came around and the frontend didn't understeer. I got used to it, but it never sat quite right with me. As you stated, I don't have enough experience with FWD cars. Too much drifting at Turner Field with my previous RWD cars. lol

Reps for the info.

[EJ25RUN]

Doesn't really seem to matter from what I've noticed. If I was taking the corner at a high rate of speed, the whole backend would just swing around and then I was forced to correct/control the car with steering and throttle control.

Thanks for the info. The first time I drove the Yaris on a mountain, I was surprised when the backend came around and the frontend didn't understeer. I got used to it, but it never sat quite right with me. As you stated, I don't have enough experience with FWD cars. Too much drifting at Turner Field with my previous RWD cars. lol

Reps for the info.

Do you have aftermarket wheel & Tires on it yet?

If not, i think you should get gripper and wider tires and some rims. It should help quiet a bit. You gotta remember Yaris weren't made to go around corners at any rate of speed.

[Ran]

Do you have aftermarket wheel & Tires on it yet?

If not, i think you should get gripper and wider tires and some rims. It should help quiet a bit.

Suspension and wheels/tires were the first things to be done. Full TRD suspension setup (sways, shocks/struts, springs, ect...) coupled to 16x7 wheels and tires. I later swapped those wheels for some 17x7's since I stopped doing mountain runs.

You gotta remember Yaris weren't made to go around corners at any rate of speed.

The Yaris actually has it's own racing cups in various Asian countries.

Also, I no longer have the Yaris. Just FYI.

[EJ25RUN]

Suspension and wheels/tires were the first things to be done. Full TRD suspension setup (sways, shocks/struts, springs, ect...) coupled to 16x7 wheels and tires. I later swapped those wheels for some 17x7's since I stopped doing mountain runs.

The Yaris actually has it's own racing cups in various Asian countries.

Also, I no longer have the Yaris. Just FYI.

I see...

i think with you adding the sway bars, you might have actually stiffened the suspension to far.

Here's the easiest way to explain what im trying to say.

F1 cars slid because the have absolutely NO body roll.

Your suspension might be so stiff that instead of naturally the weight transfer causing the car to get lower on on side, it has to instead push the car out for that weight to go somewhere.

[matthewAPM]

95-00 BTCC will go in history as the greatest racing seasons ever. period

alot of technology from F1 IS put into touring/GT cars....

[Nick Jeezy]

im a fan of rwd. awd pulls pretty cool when it has power, rwd ftw

[Tech5]

RWD FTW

[sk8erfreak]

RWD= you the man*
AWD= makin some $$
FWD= little highschool boy...

[sk8erfreak]

and, I like cheese tacos...

[Brian*]

I love all 3, but I have to go with RWD* A good driving car is just that, no matter if its awd fwd or rwd... sk8frk?? WTF lol