Guilty
Not Guilty
Yeah, i also brought some headphones and prerecorded conversations on it so i could listen to racist banter while i grocery shopped. Either that or my imaginary friend was telling me how its ok to kill blacks in white america and how the law only applies to black people... ect ect ect....Originally Posted by .blank cd
Redundant thread is now redundant.
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agreed, innocent man is innocent. Time to move on with our lives.
In the American justice system, the detailed investigation is supposed to take place BEFORE you put someone on trial for their life.
You cant get away with murder by claiming self defense unless there is a lot of evidence to back up your story.
Look a that, the race card again. That thing must be pretty worn out at this point.
What evidence are you speaking about? I didnt hear any. Everything the prosecution tried to push was conjecture, not fact.
Read the statute on manslaughter again. That charge fits worse than murder 2.
In 2010 there were 326 justifiable homicides in the US, 33 of them in Florida. Why didnt we hear anything about those? Why werent any of those national media spectacles?
Just read about a case even less clearly self defense, also from the racist state of florida. Greyston Garcia chased, then stabbed to death a guy that stole his car radio. Judge declared it self defense and dismissed the charges because the theif swung a bag of radios at Garcia.
An investigation happened, and he was put on trial. In that order. Are they doing the investigation right now or something?
What was racial about that statement?Look a that, the race card again. That thing must be pretty worn out at this point.
Were you listening to the trial for evidence for an a affidavit of probable cause to charge Zimmerman? That's backwards. Zimmerman profiled (do not read: racially) and shot Martin while Martin was not committing a crime. That is a fact that no one disputes. That was enough to get probable cause for a charge. That's how it works. It wasnt media pressure. The media was focused on the racial aspect of the case, Zimmerman was charged with 2nd degree murder, he was not charged with a racially motivated hate crime. I don't understand why people are confusing the media's interpretation of the case with the actual facts and due process. Just because he was innocent doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrong or not worth investigating.What evidence are you speaking about? I didnt hear any. Everything the prosecution tried to push was conjecture, not fact.
Why should any of them be media spectacles? Why are you preoccupied with the media's account of the case? This case shouldn't have been a media spectacle, but unfortunately it was. It should have played out the way it did whether it was a media spectacle or not.In 2010 there were 326 justifiable homicides in the US, 33 of them in Florida. Why didnt we hear anything about those? Why werent any of those national media spectacles?
Ummm are you sure you read it?
782.07 Manslaughter; aggravated manslaughter of an elderly person or disabled adult; aggravated manslaughter of a child; aggravated manslaughter of an officer, a firefighter, an emergency medical technician, or a paramedic.—
(1) The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
In murder 2, they had to prove he had ill intent. In manslaughter, they had to prove his use of force was justifiable. Much easier.
Here's another race baiting piece of shit..... Van Jones...
Van Jones: ‘The Verdict: Racism Won’ « Pat Dollard
Called it.
This isnt a good thing..... not something you should be happy about calling.
Is it normal for the DOJ to intervene in trial decisions? Especially ones as open shut as this one.
We are pretty close in agreement, just have different perspectives. I fully support an intensive, detailed investigation into any incident that results in a loss of life - of anyone. I think that race was injected too much into this particular trial, and that if it the specific events that were legally relevant were taken without race or emotion interjected into the discussion, then there is not enough evidence for the prosecution to have the ability to prove their case.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
It's intellectually dishonest to deny the racial undertones in what happened that night. Zimmerman may have not pulled the trigger because he was black, Martin may have not had an optimal response to Zimmerman, But Martin "fit a profile"
An investigation happened, no charges were filed. Politicians and black groups started getting uppity, then charges were filed. That was the real order of events.
You implied that that it would be an open and shut murder conviction if the black guy lived.
As I have said multiple times, I read the daily run downs I found online. At no point was Zimmerman's self defense plea challenged with evidence. The only challenges to that defense were presented with conjecture and what ifs.
Killing someone is NOT enough to charge someone with a crime, especially when the shooter claims self defense.
I agree with you that Zimmerman profiled, I have no issues with profiling as long as its done correctly though. I also agree with you that the police nor Zimmerman took the race of anyone involved into consideration when they made their decisions. Race only became an issue in the media after the race profiteers got involved.
I agree completely with you here. The race pimps made it a media spectacle. Obama made it a media spectacle with his comments. It should say a lot when charges were only filed after the media got involved.
That's your speculative opinion. Zimmerman gave a vivid description of why he thought Trayvon was suspicious.
Reality = Nothing Zimmerman did was even remotely motivated by race.
Reality = Trayvon is the one who called Zimmerman a cracker before doubling back to confront him.
I don't see where he said he was happy about it, just that he was predicting it would happen.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
What racial undertones are you talking about? Zimmerman saw someone acting suspicious and reported it. Then followed him while waiting for police.
People are still trying to rationalize what "could've" or what "shouldve" and race this and race that. The case is closed. He is innocent. Plain and simple.
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Our DOJ doesnt think it's over...... the same people who thought this guy was innocent, think Zimmerman is guilty... It creates quite the contrast i would say...
But he wasn't charged with a race related crime. I would understand if he was charged with a hate crime. There was a dead, unarmed 17yr old, and one man's claim of self defense. I don't care what race anyone is, I would need more info than that before I let someone free. Luckily, Zimmerman's bloody nose didn't cut it for a few people, and I unilaterally support a full investigation when the water was murky like it was. If I were Zimmerman, I would've turned myself in too. But the jury decided it was enough for self defense according to the law, and we have to respect that.
I see your point and agree that it is a reasonable position for you to stand with. No disagreement from me on that at all.
I am quite pleased and impressed that you have not fallen into the potential "race traps" that have been repeatedly stated in the media and to a smaller aspect in this thread.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
WTF!! This thread blew up overnight!! Gonna have to grab a bag of popcorn and a 40 oz for this read, Smh.
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What do politicians and "black groups" not directly involved in this ordeal have to do with anything? Charges were filed before the media outrage caught traction.
How was that a racial implication? If all the events were the same and Martin killed Zimmerman first, would he be in jail? Even if both parties were white, or Hispanic, If an altercation occurred and Martin believed he was defending himself, since everything leading up to the altercation was irrelevant, according to the law, would he have been set free?You implied that that it would be an open and shut murder conviction if the black guy lived.
That was during the trial, and that's why the prosecution lost. They didnt have enough evidence to convict. There was enough evidence to charge, and they do not have to be equal.As I have said multiple times, I read the daily run downs I found online. At no point was Zimmerman's self defense plea challenged with evidence. The only challenges to that defense were presented with conjecture and what ifs.
Apparently it is, and it should be. That's why we have laws from Capital murder to justifiable homicide.Killing someone is NOT enough to charge someone with a crime, especially when the shooter claims self defense.
Because they were both minorities. No one in the media seems to understand that. Even if Zimmerman was blonde haired blue eyed white, if he was defending himself, he was defending himself. I don't see anything that would make me believe that Zimmerman pulled the trigger because Martin was black.
There are still racial undertones in that ordeal that anyone is susceptible to. Black people wearing typical gangster clothing looking up to no good is still a racial stereotype. It even happens amongst blacks themselves. It should be addressed, criminally or not, and hopefully in addressing it, people will think twice before thinking someone is up to no good. Would this have happened if Trayvon was wearing Khaki dress slacks, sperry's, and a windbreaker?
Hopefully this case has taught everyone a lesson.
Wrong. Charges came AFTER the media got their hands on it.
I believe he would have been. I believe if Zimmerman was on top of Martin beating his head against the ground and Martin was able to get Zimmerman's gun away from him and he shot Zimmerman he would have walked, and rightly so.
Did the prosecution not go over their own evidence and witness statements before they went to trial? The only prosecution witnesses that did not support Zimmerman was Martins family. It doesnt take a legal scholar to realize that the case was unwinnable for the prosecution, even if you think they had enough to bring it to trial.
No, it actually isnt and thats been my point all along. This should have never even gone to trial because there was boatloads of evidence supporting Zimmerman's claim of self defense and none that contradicted it. You wanted him convicted but cant cite a single piece of evidence to refute the self defense claim. Why should he have been convicted when you cant find evidence to support it?
How was Trayvon acting suspicious? He was somewhere he was legally allowed to be, and wearing a hooded sweatshirt in the rain sounds pretty reasonable to me. If we take Zimmerman on his word that he was weaving through houses, was he taking a shortcut to his place, or was he trying to lose someone he recognized was following him? What were the facts that supported Trayvon acting suspiciously?
I agree with you on this. To me, it shouldn't matter what the races are of the individuals.
Perhaps if Trayvon was dressed differently, GZ may not have reported him as suspicious; however, Trayvon was not dressed inappropriately, and did nothing wrong, from what I saw presented at the trial.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
From what I understand, Martin was stopping and looking at houses, then weaving between them. At that point Zimmerman started following him. I will admit though, when I read that I didnt have much interest in this and never thought it would end up at trial.
I didn't care if he got convicted or not as long as the evidence that was presented to the jury was true. And I've never said he should have been convicted. The prosecution did not have enough evidence to convinct, that does not, in the American legal system, mean that there wasn't enough evidence to charge Zimmerman. There was an unarmed dead 17yo and a +30yo man with a gun, a bloody nose, and one side of the story at the time, according to an affidavit of probable cause signed by a judge. It does not matter what the police charge him with to hold him if the state wants to press charges. This is how the system works.
A good opinion piece from a Chicago Tribune columnist written on June 29th.
Change of Subject: Zimmerman trial has all the ingredients for a miscarriage of justice
But Martin WAS committing a crime. He was physically assaulting Zimmerman.
Lesson of the day: Know who you fuck with. Especially in Florida.
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
So you were there? You saw it? Why didn't you testify in the trial?
Are you saying saying there was no evidence that Martin assaulted Zimmerman?
Don't be an idiot. This was all brought up in the trial and the jury ruled on it. You weren't there either. All i am quoting you is facts from the trial. Everything else is just opinion.
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
This is how i feel:
Family guy - OJ Simpson verdict - YouTube
But the roles are reversed this time.... lol
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
Jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty - U.S. News
Last line of this, Zimmerman has sued NBC for defamation. I think its open and shut for him if they base it only on the edited call to police. The fact that the program director that used the edited tape was fired for doing it basicly proves Zimmerman's case for him.
I vote for thread lock. This has turned into an e-penis contest and nobody has evidence to support it.
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Agreed.
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1989 Mustang 5.0
The jury ruled that Zimmerman defended himself. That's all they ruled on. They didnt rule on who started the fight.
So Obama blames the death of Trayvon on gun violence.....
Looks to me like the gun worked exactly how it is suppose to work. It stopped Zimmerman from being assaulted. Zimmerman screaming for help didnt stop Trayvon, no reason to believe he would have stopped before doing great bodily harm to Zimmerman. A gun stopped this assault....
He also says we should honor Trayvon.... for what???
Last edited by Sinfix_15; 07-14-2013 at 05:15 PM.
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