British soldier hacked to death after being run over with car

[bu villain]

I'll use this example. Lets say you work at a GM auto plant that employs 2000 people. The injury rate is pretty low, lets say only 2 people get injured a year. Would GM stop doing safety training or project the idea that you're safe at work because only 2 people got injured? Statistically, you would have less than a 1% chance of being injured, right?

My approach to that is that even if something bad only happens to 1 person in the entire world, that 1 person could be me and i want to prevent it. No statistic is "the bible" for my decision making process. I consider statistics, but also recognize their flaw.

Yes but your GM example is only true because it's hard to believe safety training could lead to more injuries. Guns on the other hand do not have such an asymmetrical safety profile. They can make you safer in some situations and less safe in others. I agree statistics must be put in an individuals context to be used effectively. This is the point David was making regarding living in a relatively dangerous area versus a relatively safe area. Public policy however should be more influenced by statistics than by individual circumstances because it is unfeasible to create laws that handle all the intricacies of individual circumstances. It is still an imperfect approach but it is far better than basing policy on anecdotes.

[Sinfix_15]

Yes but your GM example is only true because it's hard to believe safety training could lead to more injuries. Guns on the other hand do not have such an asymmetrical safety profile. They can make you safer in some situations and less safe in others. I agree statistics must be put in an individuals context to be used effectively. This is the point David was making regarding living in a relatively dangerous area versus a relatively safe area. Public policy however should be more influenced by statistics than by individual circumstances because it is unfeasible to create laws that handle all the intricacies of individual circumstances. It is still an imperfect approach but it is far better than basing policy on anecdotes.

This is where you and i are different. You feel, basically... that the government should "do the best it can" with some laws... and i feel that the government should simply step away from some laws. My right to self defense and survival is not open to legislation.

[bu villain]

"how do i even know if someone is a muslim" i dont... appearance wise i would associate it with looking "middle eastern"

And hopefully you see that as the more you generalize, the less relation your generalization has to reality. There are a billion muslims in the world, they come in many colors, and from many different countries. Only a tiny fraction of them pose any sort of a threat to you. And yet you will be more suspicious of people who look middle eastern simply because that is an association you make in your mind. These sort of associations may be natural to the human mind, but that doesn't make them valid.

i have the freedom to make my own choices and be as "paranoid" as i chose to be. My actions do not interfere with anyone else's life. If my opinion of someone offends them, really dont give a fuck.

And that's fine as long as you understand it is paranoia and not particularly rational. Unfortunately many people's irrational fear of all muslims/middle easterners does have an impact on others lives.

This is where you and i are different. You feel, basically... that the government should "do the best it can" with some laws... and i feel that the government should simply step away from some laws. My right to self defense and survival is not up for legislation.

This is the kind of hyperbole I was talking about before. Saying you can't buy an assault rifle or an extended clip is not legislating away your right to self defense. You still have sticks, karate, hand guns, and all those other things to mentioned before. Again, I actually agree with you that we shouldn't legislate clip size or whether a rifle has a handle or not but it's just for different reasons than you.

[Sinfix_15]

And hopefully you see that as the more you generalize, the less relation your generalization has to reality. There are a billion muslims in the world, they come in many colors, and from many different countries. Only a tiny fraction of them pose any sort of a threat to you. And yet you will be more suspicious of people who look middle eastern simply because that is an association you make in your mind. These sort of associations may be natural to the human mind, but that doesn't make them valid.

And some of those muslims have decided to kill 1000s of americans. They do it proudly, openly and with little regard for human life. You acknowledge that i cant distinguish between the good and the bad, yet you tell me to assume theyre all good and then proclaim it's logical.

And that's fine as long as you understand it is paranoia and not particularly rational. Unfortunately many people's irrational fear of all muslims/middle easterners does have an impact on others lives.

I cant control the world, i can only control myself. Hurting a stranger's feelings just isnt high on my priority list, apologies. Paranoia is not the right word. I do not fear them, nor am i delusional about the presence of danger. Being aware of risk does not mean that i exaggerate it.

This is the kind of hyperbole I was talking about before. Saying you can't buy an assault rifle or an extended clip is not legislating away your right to self defense. You still have sticks, karate, hand guns, and all those other things to mentioned before. Again, I actually agree with you that we shouldn't legislate clip size or whether a rifle has a handle or not but it's just for different reasons than you.

It's my choice. Saying i cant have my choice of self defense is legislating my right to self defense away.

[bu villain]

And some of those muslims have decided to kill 1000s of americans. They do it proudly, openly and with little regard for human life. You acknowledge that i cant distinguish between the good and the bad, yet you tell me to assume theyre all good and then proclaim it's logical.

You shouldn't assume anything because not only can you not distinguish the good from the bad but you admitted you can't distinguish muslim from non-muslim so it's illogical that you say it is a factor you consider at all. It's like a blind person saying they are suspicious of blonde people. Not one of the terrorists who carried out an attack in the US was wearing muslim clothing when they committed their crime and some of them were not middle eastern looking so it is illogical to use that as evidence of a threat. I don't see a logical reason to assume middle eastern looking people are any more of a threat than any other kind of person and as far as I can tell.

I cant control the world, i can only control myself. Hurting a stranger's feelings just isnt high on my priority list, apologies. Paranoia is not the right word. I do not fear them, nor am i delusional about the presence of danger. Being aware of risk does not mean that i exaggerate it.

I don't care if you hurt their feelings either. You're right that being aware of the risk doesn't mean you exaggerate it. But assessing risk based on characteristics that are not significantly correlated with their danger to you is.

It's my choice. Saying i cant have my choice of self defense is legislating my right to self defense away.

No, it is limiting one method of self defense but that is quite different than not being able to defend yourself. If someone punches you in the face, you can't say, "Well I don't have my gun so therefore I can't defend myself". Do your first amendment rights no longer exist because you can't commit libel?

[Sinfix_15]

You shouldn't assume anything because not only can you not distinguish the good from the bad but you admitted you can't distinguish muslim from non-muslim so it's illogical that you say it is a factor you consider at all. It's like a blind person saying they are suspicious of blonde people. Not one of the terrorists who carried out an attack in the US was wearing muslim clothing when they committed their crime and some of them were not middle eastern looking so it is illogical to use that as evidence of a threat. I don't see a logical reason to assume middle eastern looking people are any more of a threat than any other kind of person and as far as I can tell.

If i dont know the difference between a harmless sand shark and a tiger shark, that is not reason for me to believe sharks are harmless. When dealing with the unknown or undecided, i do not lean towards expecting the best scenario. The risk of assuming the best is often a lot more severe than assuming the worst. Wearing a "fuck the police" shirt and having "gangster" tattooed on your forehead doesnt make you any more dangerous either.... but i am free to draw my own conclusions when confronted by a person who fits that description. I am saying this as a person covered in tattoos who might actually wear the "fuck the police" shirt....

I don't care if you hurt their feelings either. You're right that being aware of the risk doesn't mean you exaggerate it. But assessing risk based on characteristics that are not significantly correlated with their danger to you is.

Radical muslims are significantly correlated with danger. Radical muslims openly express a desire to create chaos. I'm not making it up..... im taking their word for it. I cant tell the difference between a radical muslim and a peaceful muslim. I adjust my caution based on that understanding.

No, it is limiting one method of self defense but that is quite different than not being able to defend yourself. If someone punches you in the face, you can't say, "Well I don't have my gun so therefore I can't defend myself". Do your first amendment rights no longer exist because you can't commit libel?

So if i punch your grand mother in the face, she has adequate means of self defense since she has two arms the same as i do?? Humans do not rely on our physical ability in any aspect of life. What separates us from animals and puts us at the top of the food chain is our engineering ability. Stripping me of that engineering is the same as de-clawing a lion.... you are limiting my ability to defend myself. A guy i used to go to the gym with was a navy seal, boxer, just all around bad ass.... one day at the gym someone noticed that he had a gun in his gym bag when he was putting his clothes up. They asked him "why do you even bother carrying a gun, probably anybody you ever came in contact with you could just kick their ass" , the guy responded " i dont fight in the street, i fight for fun, it's a hobby... but when it comes to protecting myself or family, i carry a gun"

It's not for you decide how i should defend myself. I dont want to force anyone to carry a gun. If you're a "bad ass" and feel you dont need one... more power to you... i'll also decide how i chose to defend myself.

[bu villain]

If i dont know the difference between a harmless sand shark and a tiger shark, that is not reason for me to believe sharks are harmless. When dealing with the unknown or undecided, i do not lean towards expecting the best scenario. The risk of assuming the best is often a lot more severe than assuming the worst. Wearing a "fuck the police" shirt and having "gangster" tattooed on your forehead doesnt make you any more dangerous either.... but i am free to draw my own conclusions when confronted by a person who fits that description. I am saying this as a person covered in tattoos who might actually wear the "fuck the police" shirt....

Yes you are free to draw your own conclusions and I am not denying you that. I am just saying that you are about as likely to be harmed by a muslim as by anyone else so if you are more suspicious of people who look middle eastern than any other random person on the street, that is illogical. Can you be illogical? Sure! Just don't say your suspicion is based on a realistic threat assessment rather than some amorphous gut feeling.

Radical muslims are significantly correlated with danger. Radical muslims openly express a desire to create chaos. I'm not making it up..... im taking their word for it. I cant tell the difference between a radical muslim and a peaceful muslim. I adjust my caution based on that understanding.

And as soon as you can determine who is a radical muslim with any sort of reliability, I will support your increased suspicion.

So if i punch your grand mother in the face, she has adequate means of self defense since she has two arms the same as i do?? Humans do not rely on our physical ability in any aspect of life. What separates us from animals and puts us at the top of the food chain is our engineering ability. Stripping me of that engineering is the same as de-clawing a lion.... you are limiting my ability to defend myself.

It's not for you decide how i should defend myself. I dont want to force anyone to carry a gun. If you're a "bad ass" and feel you dont need one... more power to you... i'll also decide how i chose to defend myself.

Yes I agree, it is limiting your ability to defend yourself. "Limiting" is not synonymous with "taking away". There are still many "engineered" self defense solutions (mace, taser, knife, etc.) I understand you think your ability to decide how to defend yourself should be unlimited but unfortunately for you, most of our society does not agree.