This is a sickening world we live in....Cameron condemns brutal hacking death, says Britain stands firm - CNN.com
British soldier hacked to death after being run over with car
This is a sickening world we live in....Cameron condemns brutal hacking death, says Britain stands firm - CNN.com
2013 Corsa Blue Optima SX 2.0T
The worse thing is that all everybody else could do was stand and gawk.....
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
Britain oulawed guns, and none of them wanted to confront two armed men (one of which had a revolver), when they themselves are not allowed to carry weapons for defense.Originally Posted by ISAtlanta300
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
C'mon David don't make this about gun laws. Two homicidal guys wanted to kill someone in public to make a point. No gun law would have stopped this.
Id have to say armies just using stick and rocks have won over swords so many versus 2 yeah.....WTF!
It was a valid response to the statement he quoted. I sure as hell am not getting involved with 2 armed men bent on murder if I dont hold some type of serious advantage.
Gun laws prevented any legal citizens from carrying and being able to respond to these two - that's fact. These two ran the guy down first with the car. They didn't just cut him first. While we will never know for certain if the result could have been different if someone had a legal firearm, we can say that there could have been a possibility at least.
So, you think that the unarmed crowd should have attacked 2 guys that were armed with a gun, a car, and several large knives, and had already shown that they were looking to kill?
Remember - none of these people had any weapons, and were still in shock from seeing these guys almost hack the guy's head off.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Well since the record shows they basically wanted to die since they didn't leave or want to then no. I can't help wonder though what was stopping someone from driving a car over the suspects. I guess no one living near by had a rifle to use those are legal and would have helped.
It's not easy to have a rifle there with their current laws, and how many people carry around rifles with them - even here, where it's much easier? I don't, do you? Shotguns are easier to get in the UK, but are usually only used by farmers in rural areas.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
ok ok ok how about the running the suspects down with a car ?
Have you watched the footage? I haven't seen any cars drive on the street and it was blocked on one end. There is a bus farther down the street and a lorry near the body, and that is what the woman that confronted them got off of.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
A gun did stop it. Luckily the guy didnt want to kill anymore people, because he would have been able to do so as he pleased...... that is.... until someone with a gun showed up, which is exactly when it stopped.
Well as long as we are dealing with hypothetical scenarios, how about the scenario where these two guys simply walked up to him on that street and shot him in the head. One guy did have a revolver right? You can't just pick the situations where guns could have helped and make a conclusion about the validity of gun laws for a country, you also have to consider the situations where they cause more damage or wouldn't have helped.
Well, if you want the hypothetical to be in this situation - the guy with the revolver did attempt to fire it at the cops. Reports are that it was rusty and blew up in his hand, destroying one of his fingers. So, if they had tried to shoot the guy first, he might still be alive.
That's not what you want to hear, but we can't always get what we want.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
My whole point is that these hypothetical scenarios, whether I like them or not, are pointless. You can invent hypotheticals that support your view (which you have done here) just as I can invent them to support the opposite view. It's all just mental masturbation and isn't particularly helpful for determining the validity of gun laws.
Maybe a clearer way to state this is:
Sandy Hook doesn't mean we should ban guns
This murder in London doesn't mean Britain should allow guns
I based my statements off the known facts of the situation. Read the reports and tell me if I have incorrectly stated anything. I know that I have not.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
I agree with both statements.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
I'm not questioning your facts. I am questioning the relevance of UK's gun laws in light of this incident. I don't see them as particularly relevant.
Then why even bring up UK's gun laws?
A gun was involved in the incident.
An attack on a soldier (who is trained to use firearms) and hsi subsequent public murder was the incident.
It took officers 30 minutes to respond, according to some of the people who witnessed the attack. During that time, the attackers could have take the opportunity to kill multiple others if they had chosen to, and the citizens would not have been able to meet deadly force equally.
If the police are not there to defend the citizens, why take away their ability to defend themselves?
One item to note - I have been to England and London before the gun ban, and even then, guns were not as prevalent there, as we see them here. They just aren't a "gun society", so in all honesty, I doubt any of the civilians would have been carrying a gun, even if it was legal (and easy).
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
But you can cherry pick the crimes committed with guns???????????
If guns are evil and cant be controlled by their owner, then police, military ect should not have guns. If a gun is just a tool and only does what it's told.... sweet.... no reason i cant have one.
I cherry picked with the stated intent to show that it is not a valid way to make a policy decision. That was the whole point. Guns are only tools (albeit powerful and dangerous ones) and are sometimes controlled properly and sometimes not. That is why the ideological debate over guns goes nowhere. Don't base gun policy on cherry picked anecdotes, particularly hypothetical ones. I don't care which side of the issue you are on.
Trying to turn this incident into a discussion on guns still doesn't make much sense to me either. If someone wants to have a gun debate, you can find a lot better conversation starters than a knifing incident in London.
The debate over guns should only involve what to do with criminals who misuse them. As a law abiding citizen, i'm tired of listening to politicians talk as if theyre entitled to take my rights away.
This is a perfectly fine topic for discussing the usefulness of gun ownership. If democrats had their way, i could potentially be one of those people standing helplessly in the streets as criminals have free reign to decide who they do or do not want to kill. London is often used as example of how great gun control is and why we shouldnt oppose it.
First of all, having a gun will not necessarily prevent you from being killed in the street. Second, this incident doesn't prove that gun control isn't a good policy either here or in the UK. If you really want to make this incident about guns, how about using it to illustrate that you don't need a gun to murder someone. At least that is a factual statement proven by this case and not some hypothetical scenario implying looser gun laws would have prevented this attack.
Nothing guarantees that you will not be "killed in the street", but having a gun puts my life in my own hands. Sitting behind a desk, behind a door, in a building surrounded by armed security, politicians think they have the right to strip you of your ability to defend yourself and tell you to rely on the police for your protection. You're right.... a gun will not prevent you from being killed in the street, neither will a cop.... or a "gun free zone" sign.....
It's not about guns preventing crimes, it's about each individual person having the right to defend themselves.
Is the right to defend yourself being stripped now?
When did this happen?
If that chicago thug you voted for got what he wanted. Thankfully we have organizations like the NRA defending our rights. Thankfully congress shoots down everything this clown wants to do.
What Chicago thug did I vote for? I didn't vote for any Chicago thug
Dont anybody start stereotyping these people though.... wouldnt want to offend anyone or hurt any feelings....
Profiling someone for what they believe in based on the sign they're holding?Dont anybody start stereotyping these people though.... wouldnt want to offend anyone or hurt any feelings....
Maybe Sinfix can read.
UK Islamist Leader: Islam Will Dominate America - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com
"I am convinced, I am 100 percent certain that the sharia will be implemented in America and in Britain one day. The question is, 'when?' and how it will come to fruition." - Anjem Choudary
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/wo...tain.html?_r=0
Muslims who called British soldiers 'rapists', 'cowards' and 'scum' were exercising freedom of speech, court hears | Mail Online
It's not profiling when they proclaim it themselves. I don't think that you know what profiling is.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
LOL. Ahh. The irony.
Or to put it bluntly: "It's not profiling when its something I'm scared of."
I know what profiling is. It's pretty clear that you might not.
You always claim you know everything, but again and again, you show that you do not.
Reality is this simple - the group of radical Muslims in the photo in the UK stated exactly what they meant. It is not a hidden agenda, and in this case, the photo explains their exact position. You can try to claim that people are targeting them, or extrapolating truths if you like, but you will be wrong. Take their message at face value - just as they have stated it - and that is not profiling - it is a clear statement of belief, not needing any additional analysis.
We all know that the majority of Muslims are not radicals like this particular group in the photo. Most of us here seem to realize that there are radicals though that mean to implement their will upon the rest of us - except you who seems unable to comprehend this simple concept.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
I honestly do not think it's humanly possible for you to be a bigger douche.
Here is my feeling towards the matter.
An unknown % of muslims are extreme radical terrorists that are so hell bent on causing havoc that they will gladly end their own life just to do harm to another.
This truth is undeniable. It's not hidden, it's not a conspiracy.... it's as true as the sun coming up tomorrow.
However large or small you feel this % of radical muslims may be.... they have accounted for 1000s of american deaths. They do it boldly and in plane view as an act of war.
My guard is up with muslims.
In addition to that..... our principles as a country is why we allow muslims to come here, even though there is clearly a recognized danger of doing so. Collectively, we feel it's the right thing to do. People are innocent until proven guilty, regardless of their religion. People have freedom, regardless of their religion or background.
Freedom is and always has been dangerous. As long as this danger is present, americans should not only be allowed.... but be encouraged to own guns.
When the danger of freedom is ever taken away...... well that's the original reason to own a gun.
So raise a drink to the dangerous united states of america.... and make sure it always stays that way.
Radical Christians (or any other group - not necessarily religious) can be just as dangerous as Muslims.
If your guard is always up, you will never have the opportunity to show others that we can live peacefully, and have tolerance for others.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
And in the period of time when christians appeared to be on a course of world domination, i would have treated them with equal reservations. Anyone who is offended by my caution enough to prevent us from "living peacefully", i have no desire to live peaceful with. I have tolerance for everyone.... i dont project my inner feelings on everyone i come in contact with, i just chose to be honest about how i feel here. I'm not walking the street pointing my finger at muslims..... but i am internally cautious around anyone i feel deserves that recognition.
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