Defend your right to own a car.

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Everyone already has access to them, they just have to pay for them, just like a car, food, etc. The government is not raising the cost or limiting it - the free market handles the pricing.

Yes. To a good extent.

Guns already cost whatever the manufacturer thinks that they can get for them and the government not even attempt to have a say in it.

...but the government has the ability to manipulate the supply and demand of guns, as with almost every commodity it has the power to regulate, as an externality of a certain policy, which can affect the price.

[David88vert]

Not according to my loan officer at the bank. I tried that. Unless you're coming to the table with a significant DP and a stellar credit score.

Try a CU, if you have a halfway decent credit score. I know plenty of guys that only have a job, that still got financed on a liter bike. Personally, I could get any bike I want, and fully finance 100% of it - just sign and ride.
It is smarter to just pay cash for a bike though. If you are waiting to just pay cash, then you are at least thinking things through correctly on that.

[David88vert]

I haven't said if I wanted them to do it or not

This happens with a lot of other commodities as well. Not just guns.

Well, do you? Take a stand. Right or wrong - its your right as an American.

[.blank cd]

On this, blank, I agree with you. MORE people do not need to have access to them, as everyone except felons, mentally handicapped, and children, already have full access to them.

Do felons not have access to these weapons?

If I'm a felon, is it possible for me to buy a gun from you?

Is it possible for me to buy a gun from a dealer?

[David88vert]

Im not suggesting the government is pricing anything. I'm saying that the government has ways of manipulating demand.

You don't believe that the government was behind 9/11 or the bombing in Boston, do you? If you are a conspiracy nut, this thread is over.

[David88vert]

Yes. To a good extent.

...but the government has the ability to manipulate the supply and demand of guns, as with almost every commodity it has the power to regulate, as an externality of a certain policy, which can affect the price.

Can you give an exact example of how the federal government is doing this with the price of guns or sports cars?

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Well, do you? Take a stand. Right or wrong - its your right as an American.

I don't see the harm in reducing the demand for assault style guns outside of the military, especially if it only means filling out an extra sheet of paper or doing a more thorough background check.

[David88vert]

Do felons not have access to these weapons?

If I'm a felon, is it possible for me to buy a gun from you?

Is it possible for me to buy a gun from a dealer?

Felons shouldn't be able to get them, unless they have had their firearms right restored.
Can they get them? Sure. Anyone that wants to get something, can, if they desire to. It's already illegal for them to purchase one from either a dealer or private seller.
Do you believe that the felon might not know that it is illegal for him to purchase, yet the seller knows that it is illegal and still chooses to sell it to him? Is that why we should attempt to find a way to criminalize the seller?

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I'm not a conspiracy nut. So no.

Can you give an exact example of how the federal government is doing this with the price of guns or sports cars?

As a matter of fact, I can. There was an assault weapons ban in 1994, maybe you've heard of it. I was only a sperm cell in 94

And apparantly the same lady is attempting to pass a similar bill in 2013. Maybe you've heard of that one.

[David88vert]

I don't see the harm in reducing the demand for assault style guns outside of the military, especially if it only means filling out an extra sheet of paper or doing a more thorough background check.

Ok, fair enough, that is your position, and your right to have that opinion - that I can accept and respect. Thank you for just stating your opinion.

Now, I have a fair question on that opinion.
How do you propose that the government implement a background check system for private sales, and how do you keep that from turning into a national firearms registry?

[Echonova]

You see, according to Cocteau's plan, I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think; I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind of guy who likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecued ribs with the side order of gravy fries?" I WANT high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and BUCKETS of cheese, okay? I want to smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green Jell-o all over my body reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiener".

[David88vert]

I'm not a conspiracy nut. So no.

As a matter of fact, I can. There was an assault weapons ban in 1994, maybe you've heard of it. I was only a sperm cell in 94

And apparantly the same lady is attempting to pass a similar bill in 2013. Maybe you've heard of that one.

If we are to go on history, that previous assault weapons ban did not make any meaningful impact on crime, nor did it keep assault weapons out of the hands of criminals. So what would be different this time around?

[.blank cd]

Felons shouldn't be able to get them, unless they have had their firearms right restored.
Can they get them? Sure. Anyone that wants to get something, can, if they desire to. It's already illegal for them to purchase one from either a dealer or private seller.
Do you believe that the felon might not know that it is illegal for him to purchase, yet the seller knows that it is illegal and still chooses to sell it to him? Is that why we should attempt to find a way to criminalize the seller?

A felon could not realize he's not allowed to purchase a gun. It's possible. But then its also possible he could withhold that information, is it not?

[David88vert]

You see, according to Cocteau's plan, I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think; I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind of guy who likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecued ribs with the side order of gravy fries?" I WANT high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and BUCKETS of cheese, okay? I want to smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green Jell-o all over my body reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiener".

But how do you use the three shells?

[Echonova]

A felon could not realize he's not allowed to purchase a gun. It's possible. But then its also possible he could withhold that information, is it not?

Can someone convicted of drunk driving and had their license revoked, still get behind the wheel of a car?


We should pass a law to prevent that.

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Ok, fair enough, that is your position, and your right to have that opinion - that I can accept and respect. Thank you for just stating your opinion.

Now, I have a fair question on that opinion.
How do you propose that the government implement a background check system for private sales, and how do you keep that from turning into a national firearms registry?

I'm not against a registry.

[.blank cd]

If we are to go on history, that previous assault weapons ban did not make any meaningful impact on crime, nor did it keep assault weapons out of the hands of criminals. So what would be different this time around?

Did it have an impact on the demand for assault weapons?

[Echonova]

But how do you use the three shells?

Two are used like chopsticks to "remove" waste and the third is used to "scrape" away the rest.


No mention is made on how they are sanitized.

[David88vert]

A felon could not realize he's not allowed to purchase a gun. It's possible. But then its also possible he could withhold that information, is it not?

A felon is notified multiple times when he is being placed on probation or parole that he no longer is allowed to purchase, own, or possess a firearm. They give a felon a clear message in abundance.
Also, ignorance of the law is not considered an excuse.

If the felon withholds the information, then the felon has committed the crime, not the seller. The felon should be prosecuted. The seller should not be prosecuted for something that he has no responsibility to know. That's common sense.

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Can someone convicted of drunk driving and had their license revoked, still get behind the wheel of a car?


We should pass a law to prevent that.

Got any ideas?

[David88vert]

I'm not against a registry.

So, you think that giving the federal government a national registry of all firearms does not have significant potential to give the federal government an incentive to abuse their power in the future? I'm glad you weren't one of our founding fathers - you do not appear to have the foresight that they did.

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A felon is notified multiple times when he is being placed on probation or parole that he no longer is allowed to purchase, own, or possess a firearm. They give a felon a clear message in abundance.
Also, ignorance of the law is not considered an excuse.

If the felon withholds the information, then the felon has committed the crime, not the seller. The felon should be prosecuted. The seller should not be prosecuted for something that he has no responsibility to know. That's common sense.

So if the felon withholds that information to buy a gun, and the moment the exchange happens, it's a crime on the buyer, how is the arrest made? How is it prosecuted?

[David88vert]

Did it have an impact on the demand for assault weapons?

Only on law abiding citizens. Is that who we need to target? Are those people a threat? If so, who are they a threat to?

[Echonova]

Got any ideas?

We could install breathalyzers in everyone's car regardless of whether they've ever drank a drop in their life or not.


It's for the greater good.

[David88vert]

Two are used like chopsticks to "remove" waste and the third is used to "scrape" away the rest.


No mention is made on how they are sanitized.

What's scary is that you know how to use them....

blank, can we get the three shells banned now, as a proactive measure?

[David88vert]

Got any ideas?

BAN ALL CARS!!!!

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So, you think that giving the federal government a national registry of all firearms does not have significant potential to give the federal government an incentive to abuse their power in the future? I'm glad you weren't one of our founding fathers - you do not appear to have the foresight that they did.

Or I have more insight, since I obviously live in a different time.

Just like I believe the government isn't coming for my registered Honda Civic, I'm pretty sure they're not coming for my Glock. There's no motive or incentive for them to come for either.

[David88vert]

So if the felon withholds that information to buy a gun, and the moment the exchange happens, it's a crime on the buyer, how is the arrest made? How is it prosecuted?

Whenever the felon is stopped and the officers find his weapons, or when someone knows that he has a weapon, and turns him in. It happens all the time.

Why should the seller be responsible for information withheld from him?

[David88vert]

We could install breathalyzers in everyone's car regardless of whether they've ever drank a drop in their life or not.


It's for the greater good.

blank is probably for that. He doesn't seem to think freedom is very important.

[.blank cd]

Only on law abiding citizens. Is that who we need to target? Are those people a threat? If so, who are they a threat to?

Were these law abiding citizens suddenly unable to buy assault rifles? Or did they just not want the hassle of going through another background check and filling out another piece of paper?

[Echonova]

BAN ALL CARS!!!!

No need. All that's required is some form of a BAC test along with a retinal scan of the driver (to determine the sober person isn't just blowing into the machine) uploaded via nationwide public WiFi (of course this will need funding) to a government database so they can approve the request for the car to start.


Nobody is trying to take your right to drive a car away.

[David88vert]

Or I have more insight, since I obviously live in a different time.

Just like I believe the government isn't coming for my registered Honda Civic, I'm pretty sure they're not coming for my Glock. There's no motive or incentive for them to come for either.

You are not more intelligent that the founding fathers. Not even remotely. You are arrogant with absolutely no reason to be.

You have a Glock? We're going to need you to turn that in. They are used in far more murders than assault weapons.

[Sinfix_15]

Everyone already has access to them, they just have to pay for them, just like a car, food, etc. The government is not raising the cost or limiting it - the free market handles the pricing.
An AR15 is already available to everyone who wishes to have one and can legally own one.
Guns already cost whatever the manufacturer thinks that they can get for them and the government not even attempt to have a say in it.

Ya, i want it to stay that it way. It sounded like Blank was suggesting a change to that.

[David88vert]

Were these law abiding citizens suddenly unable to buy assault rifles? Or did they just not want the hassle of going through another background check and filling out another piece of paper?

They were unable to buy them once their local store ran out. Of course, the criminals had no problem obtaining them on the black market.

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Whenever the felon is stopped and the officers find his weapons, or when someone knows that he has a weapon, and turns him in. It happens all the time.

Why should the seller be responsible for information withheld from him?

So it takes a traffic stop, or someone to turn me in to get arrested for buying a gun illegally? I've been stopped one time in the past year, and that time the cop didnt even ask me if I had any weapons.

So if I buy a gun from you as a felon and commit that crime, then take that gun home, don't get stopped, and tuck it under my bed, how does the arrest happen in this case?

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They were unable to buy them once their local store ran out. Of course, the criminals had no problem obtaining them on the black market.

So they were able to buy them until the supply was too low?

[Sinfix_15]

So it takes a traffic stop, or someone to turn me in to get arrested for buying a gun illegally? I've been stopped one time in the past year, and that time the cop didnt even ask me if I had any weapons.

So if I buy a gun from you as a felon and commit that crime, then take that gun home, don't get stopped, and tuck it under my bed, how does the arrest happen in this case?

Not my problem, im not a cop. Innocent until proven guilty, when you find guilty parties.... deal with them accordingly. You dont impose punishment on everyone hoping that some of it reaches criminals.

[David88vert]

So it takes a traffic stop, or someone to turn me in to get arrested for buying a gun illegally? I've been stopped one time in the past year, and that time the cop didnt even ask me if I had any weapons.

So if I buy a gun from you as a felon and commit that crime, then take that gun home, don't get stopped, and tuck it under my bed, how does the arrest happen in this case?

If it stays under your bed, perhaps there will never be an arrest. In that case, you are not a threat to anyone.
If it comes out from under your bed, and you decide to use it illegally, I hope that a law abiding citizen or officer has their weapon and stops you quickly. I certainly wouldn't want their firearm of choice to be removed from their use, and them be unable to resist.

[Sinfix_15]

So they were able to buy them until the supply was too low?

You chasing a point that doesnt even matter.........................

[David88vert]

So they were able to buy them until the supply was too low?

In some places, people snatched them up quickly prior to the ban being implemented, leaving some stores out of stock even before the ban. That only limited legal buyers from access though. Is that who you want to have be without assault weapons, and leave them in the hands of criminals?

Got to go for now.