So Let's See What Happens

[bu villain]

I just posted up the link in post #112 in the previous page - did you not read my post?
"The UN disagrees with you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Expectancy_by_Country
France's and Norway's LE is 80, and the US is 78 - basic math tells you that it is 2, not 10 - and we have a lot more people die of unnatural causes - such as car crashes. ".

I already responded to that when you first made the post but you still didn't answer my question. So your position is that going to a doctor for basic health care has no value?

If a family's costs rise, but their income does not, where do you think they will cut? I suggest you do some studying - try reading the 1910 study by Benjamin Seebohm Rowntree in York, England. BBC did a special on it called A Life Without Work. Rowntree found that people had to spend on their shelter, and would spend less on their food, and even go without, to have shelter first. This had a direct effect on their health. BBC also showed that it still is happening the same way now - a 100 years later.
My food analogy was based upon fact, so believe what you want, but you are simply in denial as it does not agree with what you want to see..

Your cherry picked facts are not telling the whole story. It's not hard to see the rediculousness of your argument. You really think someone with a 250,000 dollar house driving a beamer is going to have their grocery bill as the first item on the chopping block if their health care costs go up? And as we both know poor people don't pay taxes so they don't have to make any sacrafices.

The education that the public schools provide is not worth the cost. Take a look at how many people are out doing the worng thing or working for peanuts. How about all of those on government assistance? Guess where they got their education from..

You believe if we just got rid of public schools we wouldn't have people doing the wrong thing, making low wages, or being on government assistance. Really?

I had a friend that went bankrupt from his child's sickness. He was able to rebuild after a few years and all of them are living fine now. The hospitals wrote off the costs, and the taxpayers ultimately paid for it. The current status quo cost less per family than your proposal to prepay these occurances.

That's exactly opposite of what I am advocating. I already said if testing would cost more than the savings of finding problems early then I wouldn't support that test.

My feelings won't change. I have made sacrifices to prepare my family's finances. Why should I have prepare other peoples financial situations for them? That is exactly what you are after. You are saying that I, the one who has sacrificed and prepared and planned properly to take care of my family, should pay the healthcare costs of people who do not. You are saying that I am not smart enough to know how to spend the money that I work for and earn, and that my money should be taken from me by the government, and the government, in its infinite knowledge, knows how to spend my money better than I do. That they can provide proper healthcare for everyone, when they can't even get basic programs like Social Security - I won't rely on it either.

I realize you feel no moral obligation to help anyone out but your own family even if it would benefit the world your family lives in. Point made.

[David88vert]

I already responded to that when you first made the post but you still didn't answer my question. So your position is that going to a doctor for basic health care has no value?

Your cherry picked facts are not telling the whole story. It's not hard to see the rediculousness of your argument. You really think someone with a 250,000 dollar house driving a beamer is going to have their grocery bill as the first item on the chopping block if their health care costs go up? And as we both know poor people don't pay taxes so they don't have to make any sacrafices.

You believe if we just got rid of public schools we wouldn't have people doing the wrong thing, making low wages, or being on government assistance. Really?

That's exactly opposite of what I am advocating. I already said if testing would cost more than the savings of finding problems early then I wouldn't support that test.

I realize you feel no moral obligation to help anyone out but your own family even if it would benefit the world your family lives in. Point made.

I never said that going to the doctor had no value. It is a simple fact though that the countries that provide socialized healthcare do not see s general increase on longevity - which was one of your original points. It is simply not true for society in general. Other factors have a larger effect than a 15-30 min docitor visit. Health-based choices, such as proper eating, rest, stress reduction, etc, play a much bigger role for the general population.

I am not cherry picking - I am talking about the majority of the population. The families that make under 100K GROSS are going to faced with choices. Do you no care about the families that have experienced the loss of a income earner? They are the ones that do pay taxes but are being forced to change their quality of life with reduced income. Leveling everything by decimating everything is Marxism.

I never said that we would get rid of the public school system, but I will say that it does not properly prepare people to be successful. This is due to a variety of reasons, one of which is a poor nuturing environment. BTW - Do you realize that federal income tax is not how the majortity of the public education system is funded? It is mostly from local property taxes and state resources. Its simple to remove the majority of those taxes if you desire - rent or move to a cheaper location.

Again - who decides what tests are too be done? And if a test is not provided under the plan, who is responsible for those who die due to be refused the test that might save their life? Is it the doctor, the government, who?

I already pay more in taxes each year than you make gross. Who are you to decide that I should provide more for society? I am trying to improve my society - by directly improving my own family members lives first. Your ideas only drag everyone down to the same level, rather than improving the ones that you actually can interface with. I already contribute more financially to general society than you do, but you seem to think that I am should be obligated to pay more of what I work for to those who do not put out the same level of effort? What kind of fantasy world do you live in?