Obama ...........delusional? or just outright deceitful

[Tracy]

Personally I'm talking about volunteering more than money. One of the biggest issues in the black community is the lack of father figures and I stress (even I have been guilty of this since i focus more on my own son) that more black men need to step up and pick up the slack. Rather than worry about 24's worry about these kids and their grades. That is just an example of resources that should be given back, obviously the issue is bigger than just one race.

Obviously what your brother does not need is just money thrown at him. More people need to step up and lend a hand to those in need rather than sit on the sideline and point fingers. You are always going to have those situations where the person doesn't want help or cannot be helped, but for every one of those i guarantee there are 5 that will gladly take that help and make the most of it.

I agree about all of that. I have been a big brother big sister. Used to volunteer at Capital homes when it was there. Taught art classes at Northside hospital. Brought my cars to the downtown schools and spoke to minority children and little girls to teach them they can be race car drivers. Given my brother way too many chances, too much money and so much love you wouldn't believe. Only threw in the towel once he threatened mine and Dans lives, literally. Does any of that mean that now I don't have to pay for Brandon's health care and go out of business by doing so?

It still doesn't address health care and taxes. I thought that's what this thread was about. Not volunteer opportunities. Am I reading you right?

[tony]

It still doesn't address health care and taxes. I thought that's what this thread was about. Not volunteer opportunities. Am I reading you right?

The sentiment is the same. I'm willing to sacrifice my own resources so you can have yours. If you make significantly less than I am willing to have my taxes raised in order for you to have a decent quality of living. My point was that the man who created the concept of Capitalism stated this himself, in order for a Capitalistic society to thrive those who have accumulated wealth must be willing to carry the burden of taxes as well.

There are currently 37 million uninsured Americans with 24% of those who are insured have inadequate coverage. That needs to change and it cannot be done without some kind of sacrifice.

[Tracy]

The sentiment is the same. I'm willing to sacrifice my own resources so you can have yours. If you make significantly less than I am willing to have my taxes raised in order for you to have a decent quality of living. My point was that the man who created the concept of Capitalism stated this himself, in order for a Capitalistic society to thrive those who have accumulated wealth must be willing to carry the burden of taxes as well.

There are currently 37 million uninsured Americans with 24% of those who are insured have inadequate coverage. That needs to change and it cannot be done without some kind of sacrifice.

So where do we draw the line? I am willing to sacrifice, too. I give as much to my staff as I can afford. That's how I give. I have kept food on Brandon's table for almost 8 years now. He has gotten paid when Dan I were eating Ramen. Of course we have to keep our operations capital at a certain point, but that doesn't go into my pocket. It goes into paying my staff when we have hard months and it goes toward floating people's bills who have work done but can't afford it at the time so it sits in my driveway for a month before they come get it...but Brandon still has to get paid even if they don't come pay their bill...that cuts into my operations capital that Obama sees as making me rich.

I am using us and Brandon as an example because we fall under that rich threshold as it is presented right now.

[tony]

So where do we draw the line? I am willing to sacrifice, too. I give as much to my staff as I can afford. That's how I give. I have kept food on Brandon's table for almost 8 years now. He has gotten paid when Dan I were eating Ramen. Of course we have to keep our operations capital at a certain point, but that doesn't go into my pocket. It goes into paying my staff when we have hard months and it goes toward floating people's bills who have work done but can't afford it at the time so it sits in my driveway for a month before they come get it...but Brandon still has to get paid even if they don't come pay their bill...that cuts into my operations capital that Obama sees as making me rich.

I am using us and Brandon as an example because we fall under that rich threshold as it is presented right now.

This is where things get grey on Obama. What Obama says and what Obama does requires close scrutiny moving forward in a major plan such as this one. Personally I believe that small business a vital lifeline to this country and should be treated as such. The sacrifice small business owners make is already significant enough and a Universal plan should ease the burden of what you deal with.. keyword is SHOULD. That is where the scrutiny comes. A Universal plan should actually encourage entrepreneurship due to the fact that if someone decides to take that leap and venture on their own they will not have to worry about the cost of covering their family and/or their employees. This is just where you would have to take a close look at the plan. I suggest factcheck.org

Now, corporations with special interest groups, lobbyists, different story.

[Tracy]

This is where things get grey on Obama. What Obama says and what Obama does requires close scrutiny moving forward in a major plan such as this one. Personally I believe that small business a vital lifeline to this country and should be treated as such. The sacrifice small business owners make is already significant enough and a Universal plan should ease the burden of what you deal with.. keyword is SHOULD. That is where the scrutiny comes. A Universal plan should actually encourage entrepreneurship due to the fact that if someone decides to take that leap and venture on their own they will not have to worry about the cost of covering their family and/or their employees. This is just where you would have to take a close look at the plan. I suggest factcheck.org

Now, corporations with special interest groups, lobbyists, different story.

And this is exactly where I was going. It will require very close discretion and scrutiny. I wanted the point to be made that Dan and I aren't rich, but we fall under that category with our small business. I am for change, but not without close consideration to all aspects and I want to know where the line is to be drawn? Money the end all be all? or do we consider anything like what I presented in my brothers circumstances?

I don't care to look at the website for discussion purposes. I am discussing HERE for debate purposes. I am asking YOU what YOU think. YOU are voter, aren't you? We ALL make the decision and your personal opinion should count if the system works right. So ultimately, it matter how you feel all of this should be worked out. I am not asking for facts. I am asking for your opinion on the solution. Maybe it has been proposed, maybe not. So I don't feel the need to go to the site.

[tony]

And this is exactly where I was going. It will require very close discretion and scrutiny. I wanted the point to be made that Dan and I aren't rich, but we fall under that category with our small business.I am for change, but not without close consideration to all aspects.

I don't care to look at the website for discussion purposes. I am discussing HERE for debate purposes. I am asking YOU what YOU think. YOU are voter, aren't you? We ALL make the decision and your personal opinion should count if the system works right. So ultimately, it matter how you feel all of this should be worked out. I am not asking for facts. I am asking for your opinion on the solution. Maybe it has been proposed, maybe not. So I don't feel the need to go to the site.

Heres the thing, Government without scrutiny is dangerous in itself. I tell this to my friends who are liberal, government programs are all well and good but if the people are not educated then there is no balance. This is why I get annoyed when political debates get less ratings than American Idol. Or threads like these get very little attention other than one liners from people who just don't like (or do like) this plan.

Along with a universal plan needs to come initiatives on healthy lifestyles.. and I don't mean from the government. There has to be personal accountability as well from individuals, how that happens I do not know but it can be done.

[Vteckidd]

Along with a universal plan needs to come initiatives on healthy lifestyles.. and I don't mean from the government. There has to be personal accountability as well from individuals, how that happens I do not know but it can be done.

Im totally against that. Im for free choice. If i want to go have a god damn triple whopper with cheese with a side of Bacon and fried chicken, let me do it. If i want to smoke a pack of marlboro reds and die of cancer, let me do it in peace.

You have no right to tell me how to live my life as long as i dont infringe upon your rights.

Do you smoke? You prob dont. Why not? Because its VERY BAD FOR YOU. But people still do it right? Cause they choose to. There isnt a soul in america right now that believes cigs are good for them or that they arent bad. Everyone knows its bad. But people still do it.

Everyone knows that Mceedees is BAD for you, but people still eat there. Why? Choice! If i want to lose 20 lbs i dont go scarf down cheeseburgers at mcdonalds.

You cant legislate a healthy lifestyle. And yeah health care for SMOKERS costs more than NON SMOKERS. My insurance went up $50 per month because i smoke. Go figure.