Man. I always love how people always argue the extremes on each end of the argument. When really in all actuallity one can not prosper without the other. It's a fact that can not be refuted.Originally Posted by bigdare23
Yes
No
Man. I always love how people always argue the extremes on each end of the argument. When really in all actuallity one can not prosper without the other. It's a fact that can not be refuted.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
Again another argument I love. Who cares how much it takes out of their pocket. The fact of the matter is it's still their money they worked for it. How can anyone justify taking money from one person to give it to another?
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
I agree 100%, but some people don't view it like that. In that case you have to show them the other end of the stick.
Homie, the government isn't playing Robin Hood. Yes, increased funding is going toward helping people (as it normally does), but it's not like that's the only place the newly increase in revenue is going to. Don't forget all the debt the government is in. I hate taxes and I know everyone else hate taxes too, but the impact the tax bracket that Obama plans on increases the taxes is not going to hurt one bit.
5+5=10 ....... 5 * 45 = 225....... 225^1/2 = 15...... 10 =/= 15
Last edited by Verik; 10-02-2008 at 12:09 AM.
reason our economy is the way it is, is due to greed... but not the greed of CEO's or execs or even people with 250k+ income. It's the greed of those who bought into mortages on extremely low rates (due to the fed's response to the dot-com bust) and who couldn't afford the mortage. It's the greed of those who wanted what they couldn't afford that caused us to be in this situation......
Explain how distributing income is not the same principal as Robin Hood.
I still have yet to see a valid and sound argument for why the rich deserve to have to pay a higher tax than everyone else? Why is the responsibility of the poor or even middle income less than that of the upper? And how is it just and fair that the harder you work, the more successful you are, the more the gov't will take from you?
Last edited by Verik; 10-02-2008 at 12:09 AM.
Here's an idea. Why doesn't our Government spend less instead of raising taxes on anybody?
Can anyone explain how Obama is going to lower taxes for 95% (I think that's the number he threw out) of Americans when 45% of Americans don't pay taxes at all
On a side note: Atlas Shrugged. Read it.
my business will do $300,000 in sales this year.
I make as little as possible so i dont get taxed, everything is a write off.
BUt this thread just shows again how people just DONT GET IT.
Look its REALLY SIMPLE:
1) You guys making UNDER $100,000 which is 99% of this board, who do you think you WORK FOR, who do you think EMPLOYS you? Its the guys making $250,000 a year+. THEY CREATE YOUR JOBS
2) Its easy when you are 20 making $30,000 a year to sit and say that $250k is TOO MUCH and its RICH! My dad makes that a year, and hes not RICH. Trust me.
3) THe problem with Obama is he is LIEING. He sits here and tells you that A) hes going to cut your taxes B) tax the rich to give to the POOR
What he DOESNT tell you is that hes going to raise the A) Death Tax B) Capital Gains Tax C) Tax on Guns D) LET THE ALREADY EXISTING BUSH TAX CUTS EXPIRE
The money you are getting back now was increased by PRESIDENT BUSH. OBAMA has said he will let those EXPIRE on several occasions. That means your TAXES WILL GO UP, then he will give you a tax break on your NEW NOW HIGHER TAX RATE.
YOU CANNOT STIMULATE GROWTH OF THE ECONOMY (WHICH IS THE NUMBER 1 ISSUE) BY TAXING THE "RICH". Its HISTORICALLY PROVEN that when you RAISE taxes on the poeple that are EXPANDING THEIR BUSINESS AND CREATING JOBS that they will CURB COSTS by CUTTING JOBS/PRODUCTIVITY.
So your BOSS now has to pay an extra 62% in taxes under OBama, you think hes gonna give you a raise now? **** no, hes going to LAY PEOPLE OFF to make up for the money he just LOST.
That money from the RICH isnt going to YOU, its going to the SOCIAL PROGRAMS obama wants to implement like Healthcare and other Governement run junk that wont work.
Why should the people that WORK HARD and CREATE THEIR OWN WEALTH and reinvest into this economy, be asked to pay more.
TAXING is about RAISING REVENUE , NOT REDISTRIBUTING WEALTH.
the TOP 50% of ALL EARNERS pay 95% of ALL INCOME TAXES.
THink about that for a second. That means YOU, the bottom 50% pay only 5% of the ENTIRE TAX BURDEN per year.
Fact is most of you dont pay taxes, you dont MAKE ENOUGH. THat check you get back at the end of the year, thats money you OVERPAID and gave the govt an interest free loan.
Why work hard to get ahead if your just going to be asked to give your hard earned money to a "poor" person.
Thats not Capitalism, thats COMMUNISM/SOCIALISM. Go read what redistribution of wealth is, it has NEVER WORKED.
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Whose talking about RAISING TAXES?
The mccain plan CUTS taxes for MIddle class people and he will KEEP THE bUSH TAX CUTS
This is ALL LIES from Obama. He is only saying this to get elected, there is NO WAY HE CAN SPEND THE 900BILLION he is proposing and CUT taxes at the same time. IT CANNOT HAPPEN especially with the bail out .
Hes going to do EXACTLY what Clinton did, which was promise a middle class tax cut, get into office, then say "we cant do it, and oh by the way im going to increase your taxes"
Clinton did the SAME THING
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furthermore, if you make minimum wage, GET A BETTER JOB, GET A CAREER, GET A SKILL, GET AN EDUCATION.
If you are 35 and making $20,000 a year, you screwed up somewhere, BAD. This country has ENOUGH opportunities to get ahead and make a decent living. YOu can manage a QT an make $45000 a year, you can work at Home Depot and make $50,000 a year, you can work at UPS and make $50,000 a year, etc etc etc
If you are on minimum wage you are either
1) Aged 16-24
2) In College/School
If you dont fit that criteria, you DONT DESERVE HELP, you dont deserve a HOUSE, a MORTGAGE, a NEW CAR, etc etc etc
You deserve a swift kick in the ass and some motivation.
I was there man, i worked $7 an hour jobs all through high school and college.
I made $40,000 when i was 21-22 working for Dobbins as a contractor. I made $35000 at NOPI, i made less than $20,000 at other Private small businesses.
It sucks, but you know what, i didnt DESERVE anything, i chose that path , i didnt finish college, i was in SALES in a very non lucrative field, and i had no real skills. But that doesnt mean i deserved a HANDOUT.
Instead i took what i had learned and went into business for myself and its worked out great. But i was motivated.
But ill tell you this, if my business goes under, ill be at QT or something getting a job for decent money and finishing school.
This is AMERICA, land of OPPORTUNITY not land of the "do as little as possible and the government will provide the rest"
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i do not make 250k or more a year but my family does so yes this will indirectly impact my life
bush 3rd term
Correction, America WAS the land of opportunity. Now we're a country trying to play catchup due to our benevolent economic interests towards the rest of the world for the last 60 yrs. We could have told the rest of the world to **** off after WWII but we decided to reformulate the global economy in our favor (basing everything off the US dollar) and sell out domestic industry in the name of stabilizing war torn countries. Then we pumped billions of dollars into developing countries to help them industrialize only to create international competition decades later, assisted by a slew of free trade agreements. It's the paradigm of capitalism, Vladimir Lenin predicted it back in 1917.
I say do it, income redistribution has made the overall quality of life in the EU way higher than most of the world. Also see Sweden, Finland, and Norway as examples. Anyways the segment of the population that makes that much money is smart enough to figure out how to write most of their assets off as tax deductable (see most small business owners). It'll affect the legacy savings of the extreme rich which will then upset their trust fund children and they wont be able to afford their retirement home in the Caymans, big effin deal.
02 WRX Sport Wagon
I 100% agree with you. I had lunch the other day with a guy that is in that tax bracket. And i asked him how would it affect his life if he got taxed more. He said that his family wouldnt be able to take as many trips, and he might have to sell 1 of his sports cars. We kinda laughed about it for a second and i said Oh life is so bad for him. He agreed that something needed to be done and he said that in all honesty that it wouldn't be that big of a notice to him or his family. This is the CEO of the company I work for, 100 million a year company.
I agree with Mr. Kidd.
Furthermore, I see a lot of people saying "tax the rich!" for reasons that they don't even understand. It's like they have some sort of hatred towards people who have worked their butts off to get to where they are. Why should they pay a heavier price? Because they are successful? Use them as your motivation to get out of your dead end minimum wage job. Don't blame them for your dissatisfaction in life.
I agree with Mr. Kidd.
Furthermore, I see a lot of people saying "tax the rich!" for reasons that they don't even understand. It's like they have some sort of hatred towards people who have worked their butts off to get to where they are. Why should they pay a heavier price? Because they are successful? Use them as your motivation to get out of your dead end minimum wage job. Don't blame them for your dissatisfaction in life.
Do any of you know what Real Wages are and how that works?
i'm gonna call BS to who voted yes
caseyfoster, Mr. KiDD, MS3ZZ, NevrNufTorq, redrumracer, Sammich
NEverNufTorq i can vouch for
My family makes over 250K and i will be in the next few years. So yeah im thinking ahead, not today and where i want to be in the next 4 years.
So, thats not the point any rebuttle to my long winded factual post?
Last edited by Mr. KiDD; 10-02-2008 at 09:50 AM.
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post wasn't about your family... my family makes over 250k and my wife and i are close to that as well... i still put NO. you only make that if you got financial records to prove it.
The term real wages refers to wages that have been adjusted for inflation. This term is used in contrast to nominal wages or unadjusted wages.
The use of adjusted figures is in undertaking some form of economic analysis. For example, in order to report on the relative economic successes of two nations, real wage figures are much more useful than nominal figures.
If nominal figures are used in an analysis, then statements may be incorrect. A report could state: 'Country A is becoming wealthier each year than Country B because its wage levels are rising by an average of $500 compared to $250 in Country B'. However, the conclusion that this statement draws could be false if the values used are not adjusted for inflation. An inflation rate of 100% in Country A will result in its citizens becoming rapidly poorer than those of Country B where inflation is only 2%. Taking inflation into account, the conclusion is quite different: 'Despite nominal wages in Country A rising faster than those in Country B, real wages are falling significantly as the currency halves in value each year'.
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I would agree with you but the OP wants to use that poll to justify the previous comments made.
"Oh you dont make 250k a year so quit acting like its going to bother you"
Its going to affect me and my business, and its going to affect my family, and its going to affect me in 1-2 years.
So yeah, im not going to give him a vote he can try to use in his arguement
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Did I ever say the word black? No. There are probably just as many sorry white people who put their mortgage payments last on their list of priorities, right behind that new $50k SUV they are driving, or that $2k flat screen they just bought. People think that just because the government guarantees them a loan, it doesn't matter if they make payments on time and have bad credit. They fall behind on payments, and the bank gets stuck with a house that is worth only 60% of what it was worth 3 years ago... I am aware that there is a process for being approved, but they are approving mortgages for much larger amounts than they would in the past, and they are approving mortgages to people who have super ****ty credit. Loaning money to someone who has bad credit (which means they have obviously had problems with debt in the past) is just not a good idea.Damn those people for wanting a house. Last time I checked there is still a process of being approved. It's not like just cause you're black you're automatically approved for a $300k mortage.
Just a sorry interpretation of HUD.. this stuff never ceases to amaze me.
Land Rover LR3 HSE
I didn't ask for a definition from Answers.com (http://www.answers.com/topic/real-wage) I asked if any of you know what they are and how it works. Since you copy and pasted I'll take that as a no.
Anyone else who doesn't understand the nature of real wages but still believe that all individuals should be taxed the same or that the rich should be spared, please take a second to learn and understand the nature of our free market Economy especially as it pertains to real wages.
Because of this, there is a vast descrepancy in lower income wage earners so to tax them more or even an even tax burden to those that are rich, is still unfair. Because of real wages, if you tax a low income individual at the same rate as a higher income individual, the lower income citizen is actually taking on more of a personal tax burden.
Black was an example, if someone is being discriminated against there is obviously a reason, I'm sure race was a factor in HUD.
that is the biggest line of BULLSH!T i have ever read
wow some will say anything to justify there position
got any FACTS to back this up or just more liberal rhetoric?
CARE TO ANSWER ANY OF THE 20 QUESTIONS I POSTED or are we going to shift the focus now to a debate about how i dont make 250k a year or how i dont know about REAL WAGES?
stay on topic
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Do you realize that small businesses emply much more people than large corporations such as walmart of fast food chains??? And most small business owners look out for their employees and pay them pretty good (better than walmart of fast food chains). They reward hard workers and take care of them. I've never met someone who worked for a small business that made minimum wage.
Land Rover LR3 HSE
Mike, you dont even know what Real Wages are but you're willing to call what I stated bull****? Again, read before you react. I've been knee deep in Economics, ask any economist as to how this works and they will confirm what I just stated.
By the way, why did Kev's post get deleted?
in case you missed it:
ANDWhat he DOESNT tell you is that hes going to raise the A) Death Tax B) Capital Gains Tax C) Tax on Guns D) LET THE ALREADY EXISTING BUSH TAX CUTS EXPIRE
The money you are getting back now was increased by PRESIDENT BUSH. OBAMA has said he will let those EXPIRE on several occasions. That means your TAXES WILL GO UP, then he will give you a tax break on your NEW NOW HIGHER TAX RATE.
YOU CANNOT STIMULATE GROWTH OF THE ECONOMY (WHICH IS THE NUMBER 1 ISSUE) BY TAXING THE "RICH". Its HISTORICALLY PROVEN that when you RAISE taxes on the poeple that are EXPANDING THEIR BUSINESS AND CREATING JOBS that they will CURB COSTS by CUTTING JOBS/PRODUCTIVITY.
So your BOSS now has to pay an extra 62% in taxes under OBama, you think hes gonna give you a raise now? **** no, hes going to LAY PEOPLE OFF to make up for the money he just LOST.
That money from the RICH isnt going to YOU, its going to the SOCIAL PROGRAMS obama wants to implement like Healthcare and other Governement run junk that wont work.
ANDThat money from the RICH isnt going to YOU, its going to the SOCIAL PROGRAMS obama wants to implement like Healthcare and other Governement run junk that wont work.
Why should the people that WORK HARD and CREATE THEIR OWN WEALTH and reinvest into this economy, be asked to pay more.
TAXING is about RAISING REVENUE , NOT REDISTRIBUTING WEALTH.
the TOP 50% of ALL EARNERS pay 95% of ALL INCOME TAXES.
THink about that for a second. That means YOU, the bottom 50% pay only 5% of the ENTIRE TAX BURDEN per year.
Fact is most of you dont pay taxes, you dont MAKE ENOUGH. THat check you get back at the end of the year, thats money you OVERPAID and gave the govt an interest free loan.
Whose talking about RAISING TAXES?
The mccain plan CUTS taxes for MIddle class people and he will KEEP THE bUSH TAX CUTS
This is ALL LIES from Obama. He is only saying this to get elected, there is NO WAY HE CAN SPEND THE 900BILLION he is proposing and CUT taxes at the same time. IT CANNOT HAPPEN especially with the bail out .
Hes going to do EXACTLY what Clinton did, which was promise a middle class tax cut, get into office, then say "we cant do it, and oh by the way im going to increase your taxes"
Clinton did the SAME THING
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Ok economist, explain it to me i want to see FACTS, i dont want to see "ask any economist he will back it up"
he asked me to delete itBy the way, why did Kev's post get deleted?
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How did a topic on taxing higher wage earners again turn into my candidate against yours?
I'm speaking on facts, you're still posting partisan bull****.
Perceived ability to repay the loan was the main form of descrimination that HUD was created to address. Race, age, ability to hold a job, etc are things that banks would consider when making loans. If a person can't keep a job for longer than 6 months or has 10 different jobs a year, of course a bank would not want to loan them the money. The only place where race may have been an issue is here in the south, but by the time HUD passed, racial discrimination was not nearly the issue it was 40 years previously.
Land Rover LR3 HSE
this thread was PARTISAN from the first post.
Im talking about how people think that subject for making this thread dont know what they are talking about.
Im still waiting for an answer........
*taps finger*
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Educate yourself or go take a class, I got better things to do than teach you Economics.. thats not my responsibility. Don't take it personal cause it isn't, but if you're going to speak on these subjects you should at least take the initiative to learn what you are talking about.
I agree with yu
Tony lets be honest here the MAJORITY of the FANNIE and FREDDIE loans were to BLACKs with LOWER INCOME, thats not racist thats FACT. Go read the statistics. It was made to lend to lower income families and im sorry if that hurts but thats the way it was. Now its not a race issue, but the banks were loaning money to people that just werent qualified, and the majority of them were minorities from spanish to african.
Just like ACORN isnt about getting new voters, its about getting new BLACK VOTERS TO VOTE DEMOCRAT.
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Thats what i thought, you cant even explain it yourself
whose next
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
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The concept of HUD was a good idea, but the actual outcome was not. Risky mortgages are forcing banks to go out of business.
It's like a chain reaction. Banks start to lose money. People get scared of bank closings and take money out of the bank. The bank then has no assets to make new loans with (which is their main source of income). Bank goes out of business, causing more people to be scared, take money out, and continue the cycle.
Hopefully the FDIC will raise deposit insurance to $250k. That should help keep some money in the banks.
Land Rover LR3 HSE
lol at acorn getting caught falsifying ballots.
Land Rover LR3 HSE
Okay Mike, I was going to try and avoid delving into this because partisan politics get thrown in and to be honest, if you're biased you tend to be jaded. But I'll make it as simple as possible.
I made $65k last year, you dont have to tell me how much but did you make more or less last year?
less like $20,000
EDIT: like prove me wrong, im all for it, i can be objective, you cant just make some general ass statement then say "OH YOU DONT KNOW IM DONE WITH YOU"
and not prove your point, come on where the Tony we know and love
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igotta run buy keep posting tony illbe back
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