How did NASCAR ("stock car") get to how it is now?

[Elbow]

Sorry but...NASCAR FTL

[nreggie454]

What do you refer to dirt track racing as? What do you think Stock car was back in the day on the beaches of Daytona? You think either was or is "grip" driving? Drifting is simply a differant form of the same thing.

Racing is all about getting from point A to point B the fastest. In racing, the person who gets to point B first wins. Some sliding occurs, but it is in no way the focus of the competition.

In drifting, it is still about getting from point A to point B, while looking better than the other guy (oftentimes carrying much less speed than a person going for grip). Position at the end of the race does not determine who actually wins, some judge does. I am not saying that drifters are lame, I am just saying drifting is NOT racing.

[speedminded]

Racing is all about getting from point A to point B the fastest. In racing, the person who gets to point B first wins. Some sliding occurs, but it is in no way the focus of the competition.

In drifting, it is still about getting from point A to point B, while looking better than the other guy (oftentimes carrying much less speed than a person going for grip). Position at the end of the race does not determine who actually wins, some judge does. I am not saying that drifters are lame, I am just saying drifting is NOT racing.

Some sliding occurs? Have you ever seen a dirt track race? Have you ever driven on a dirt track? For the most part the one with the best form and biggest balls wins...not much unlike drifting. Both Racing and Drifting are competitions, whether it's competing to a finish line or how you get there either way it's still a competition.

[nreggie454]

Some sliding occurs? Have you ever seen a dirt track race? Have you ever driven on a dirt track? For the most part the one with the best form and biggest balls wins...not much unlike drifting. Both Racing and Drifting are competitions, whether it's competing to a finish line or how you get there either way it's still a competition.

I know they are both competitions, but drifting isn't racing. Yes I have seen a dirt track race, and they get sideways as hell. However, they aren't going for the biggest slip angles or holding the drift, they want to get around the turn as fast as possible and get as much traction as they can when they exit. In drifting and dirt track racing, usually the one with best form and biggest balls wins. However, in dirt track racing, the winner is always the guy in front.

Sliding is an event that often occurs during racing. Sliding itself is not racing.

[quickdodge®]

QD made a funny. You didn't get it.

Exactly. But his statement that I quoted was quite a bit broad. Later, QD.

[Mike Lowrey]

....

[Thighs]

nobody has mentioned the pushrods and carbs? or the iron block v8s? or the sheet metal bodies?

c'mon... these things were "high tech" in 1975... and the "Car Of Tomorrow" reminds me of a BTCC car from the late 80s/ early 90s. nascar is a joke.

[SPOOLIN]

the COT is just a change that is needed so they advance their designs and change what the eye sees. There has to be change in anything so theres nothing you can do about it.

[2turbo4u]

Where can I buy a RWD Camry at I'll take two! Asscar ftl!

[Thighs]

the COT is heavier than the old car and has the same motor/drivetrain, including carburated, pushrod-valved, iron-blocked v8s.

nascar sucks.

[RutRoe]

As a guy who works for the SPEED Channel, who goes to every race, and who loves NASCAR....

I"m guessing that most of you guys who are making fun on NASCAR have never been to a race. 2turbo4u, 2fast4whatever...

If you've never been to a race, to be frank, you have zero idea of what you're talking about. It's not your fault, but you just don't comprehend what goes into these cars, or the races, or why so many people love it.

Have you guys even been down in the Cup series garage after a practice? Have you seen the technology that people use to race? No. You haven't. and that's ok. But just because you don't like the SPORT, doesn't make you an expert.

For the people that don't think Toyota should be in NASCAR, that's the attitude that people make fun of the USA for. It's a dumb thing to say....why ?

Because the Camry is the only car model in NASCAR's Nextel Cup Series which is actually produced in the US. Yep.

Ford Fuzion, Monte Carlo - both made in Mexico....the Charger, in Canada. So techincally, until Toyota came in, there was no real American made car in cup. Certainly there were American manufacturers, but no cars.

The arguement that the racing sucks because they aren't cars in stock conditions is weak.

That hasn't been the case since the 60's. True that the cars seemed more similar until the late 80's, early 90's, but that's the extent of that arguement. They've almost never been STOCK.

If you are curious about things in NASCAR, ask... or do some research. But don't just spew lies and make stuff up because you think there's no skill in what they do.

Sure most of the tracks, well all but two races, have only left hand turns, that's true. But to imply that it's easy to do what these guys do every weekend is assanine.

For me, the best part about NASCAR is the people. The fans. They show up in numbers every weekend and support these guys that they relate with, and monetarily speaking, it's much larger and more powerful than almost any other motorsport. F1 is a more expensive sport, but clearly, they don't have the fans or the viewership here in the US to really compete with NASCAR.

Just know that when you guys say this stuff you're doing two things.

1. You're not being PRO-motorsports, which in the end, hurts all of us. Wether you like drifting, dirt track, go-karts, SCCA, or anything else, when you support one of them, it affects how the others are seen. Taking a positive view on them makes a difference. You don't have to love NASCAR by any means, but it paves the way for a lot more things than you can obviously comprehend.

2. You're just like the people who lie and BS about their cars and you get mad at for not knowing what they're talking about. Seriously, how many times has somone told you "Yeah it's a stock civic, but it runs 11's, cause it's an ex, we got some secret stuff done..." In the end, it's all crap, and you guys are no different.

Just because something's not your thing doesn't mean you need to rail it and make it something it's not.

I mean, I don't like sushi, but I'm not calling you a assface because you do, or say sushi in america is nothing like fresh sushi in one of Japan's ports. (I've never been to Japan-see what I mean)

And the COT was designed to be a safer, more affordable race car in the LONG run. Not in the SHORT run, meaning this year.

Rutledge

[japan4racing]

As a guy who works for the SPEED Channel, who goes to every race, and who loves NASCAR....

I"m guessing that most of you guys who are making fun on NASCAR have never been to a race. 2turbo4u, 2fast4whatever...

If you've never been to a race, to be frank, you have zero idea of what you're talking about. It's not your fault, but you just don't comprehend what goes into these cars, or the races, or why so many people love it.

Have you guys even been down in the Cup series garage after a practice? Have you seen the technology that people use to race? No. You haven't. and that's ok. But just because you don't like the SPORT, doesn't make you an expert.

For the people that don't think Toyota should be in NASCAR, that's the attitude that people make fun of the USA for. It's a dumb thing to say....why ?

Because the Camry is the only car model in NASCAR's Nextel Cup Series which is actually produced in the US. Yep.

Ford Fuzion, Monte Carlo - both made in Mexico....the Charger, in Canada. So techincally, until Toyota came in, there was no real American made car in cup. Certainly there were American manufacturers, but no cars.

The arguement that the racing sucks because they aren't cars in stock conditions is weak.

That hasn't been the case since the 60's. True that the cars seemed more similar until the late 80's, early 90's, but that's the extent of that arguement. They've almost never been STOCK.

If you are curious about things in NASCAR, ask... or do some research. But don't just spew lies and make stuff up because you think there's no skill in what they do.

Sure most of the tracks, well all but two races, have only left hand turns, that's true. But to imply that it's easy to do what these guys do every weekend is assanine.

For me, the best part about NASCAR is the people. The fans. They show up in numbers every weekend and support these guys that they relate with, and monetarily speaking, it's much larger and more powerful than almost any other motorsport. F1 is a more expensive sport, but clearly, they don't have the fans or the viewership here in the US to really compete with NASCAR.

Just know that when you guys say this stuff you're doing two things.

1. You're not being PRO-motorsports, which in the end, hurts all of us. Wether you like drifting, dirt track, go-karts, SCCA, or anything else, when you support one of them, it affects how the others are seen. Taking a positive view on them makes a difference. You don't have to love NASCAR by any means, but it paves the way for a lot more things than you can obviously comprehend.

2. You're just like the people who lie and BS about their cars and you get mad at for not knowing what they're talking about. Seriously, how many times has somone told you "Yeah it's a stock civic, but it runs 11's, cause it's an ex, we got some secret stuff done..." In the end, it's all crap, and you guys are no different.

Just because something's not your thing doesn't mean you need to rail it and make it something it's not.

I mean, I don't like sushi, but I'm not calling you a assface because you do, or say sushi in america is nothing like fresh sushi in one of Japan's ports. (I've never been to Japan-see what I mean)

And the COT was designed to be a safer, more affordable race car in the LONG run. Not in the SHORT run, meaning this year.

Rutledge

werd...reps to you son!

[blaknoize]

....

[blaknoize]

Ok... the above message didnt take the image, but its funny anyway!

[RutRoe]

So that's it huh?

I just point out the flaws in your "arguement" and you guys give up, huh?

Well. Good talk, son. Good talk.

[Brett]

Very well put Rut!!

[Blitanicle99]

Being a watcher of Nascar and enjoying what it is I do have things to say of coarse.
Nascar is no longer a race. Its a spectators sport. People go for the intensity and the crashes. I have yet to see fans rilled up at other spectators sports like Nascar. Its pretty insane. I do not kill myself to go to all the races or watch everyone on TV. I enjoy going. The cars are loud as **** and those guys can fawking drive.
I support the Budwiser car. However Jimmy Johnson did kick some royal ass at the Nextel cup.

And RutRoe. Thats awesome man! I never knew the camry was the only one made in America anymore.

[SL65AMG]

nascar FTL.... turning left FTL....american cars...ftl....

No Acceptable Sports Car Are Represented

whats wrong with american cars? have you ever owned one(fords not included, they do suck), to make some basis of your opinons or are you just repeating what someone else told you?

[chituntang]

There are things I like about Nascar and things I do not like about it. If you say Nascar sucks and drivers has no skills, go try a lap, and you will learn. The drivers cannot make a mistake or they will lose time, not just a couple of seconds, but more. This is the thing I like about Nascar. The biggest thing I do not like about Nascar is the point system. But I guess it is due to a fact that too many drivers are in the race, and it demands more points drivers can score.


The only question I have is that is all the chassis the same?

[RutRoe]

The chassis aren't all the same...well, not techincally.

The chassis for the car of tomorrow have tolerances they have to be in, and they all have to be approved by NASCAR itself, then the body of the car is mounted. It's a pretty long process from what the teams have told me.

Jeff Gordon in particular has been vocal about trying to get NASCAR to change how it approves the chassis since the cars go through so many templates during inspection at the track. And if the car gets wrecked, you'd basically have to start all over....

And just for everyone else... if you haven't ever been to a race and you get the opportunity, please go. It's an awesome experience...and one lap inside during a race will change anyone's opinion on the sport, I promise.

[chituntang]

So they are pretty using the same shape, but different "degree" angle? But they are still base on the same thing, right?

Thanks for the answer. Reps for you.

[japan4racing]

pretty much..nascar just says "hey, stay within these lines" and if you stray you get penalized. that allows for adjustability and different set-ups between different teams but still keeps the cars "equal".

[DrivenMind]

NASCAR has been a joke since the 1970s. Anyone who disagrees is probably chewing dip, backing into traffic with their Chevrolet, and beating their pets.

All the while screaming "Earnheart was a legend!"

[Stormhammer]

NASCAR was the best back in the late 60s when you had the Daytona Charger, the Superbird, Charger 500, Cyclone 500, etc - cars that had to be put into factory production runs to run in NASCAR, cars that broke the 200mph barrier, cars that forced tire companies to update technology cause of blowouts at such high speeds - where the bigger the engine, the better ( and it too had to be marketed to the public, thus how the 426 hemi came to the street )

That was the epitomy of Nascar IMO ( and #43 drove back then too )

[RutRoe]

NASCAR has been a joke since the 1970s. Anyone who disagrees is probably chewing dip, backing into traffic with their Chevrolet, and beating their pets.

All the while screaming "Earnheart was a legend!"

This coming from a guy that threw a beat up old primered corolla around a parkign lot buring off perfectly good tires....

See how dumb that sounds? That's what it sounds like when someone makes a dumb stereotype.

Not only has it not been a joke since the 70's, you were born in the 80's, so frankly, you don't really have any idea. Now what I bet you do know is that the stereotype of a NASCAR fan is roughly as you established.

However, I doubt that the long list of multi-million dollar companies that are involved with all forms of NASCAR would agree. SO no offense, i've been there, I doubt you've even been to a race, so you can understand why what you're saying is worthless in reference to this.

But, i've been wrong before.

I'll start calling all these Fortune 500 companies and I'll let them know what some guy in Atlanta that's into imports thinks about how they're wasting their money.

I'm not trying to argue about this, but what I am trying to do is show you guys that it's a lot more than you know. It's a fascinating, technology filled sport, which a lot of you obviously haven't had positive exposure to, which is why you make fun of it and don't understand.

Again, I ask people to read what I wrote on page 3 and try to understand why being "Pro-Motorsports" works out well for all of us in the end.

[ryanh300]

NASCAR is garbage, hands down. I don't think that it should be considered racing and the cars are trash too.

[Glides]

NASCAR is garbage, hands down. I don't think that it should be considered racing and the cars are trash too.

Wrong. Nascar is simple on the outside and it's done that way to appeal to a simple people. That's why it's one of the most popular motorsports in the world. People the world over watch Nascar. You can see photos of people in Japan with Earnhardt Jr shirts on, England, France and many other places also.

Underneath it's one of the most technilogically advanced and one of the most secretive motorsports there is. Don't think so, go on a tour of a facility and step out of the tour lines with a camera. Chassis rooms, suspension rooms and motor build rooms are like little top secret laboratories in most of the larger teams. You'll damm near get beat down and at the least get kicked off the tour and escorted out.

How did Nascar get to where it is now? Money, lots and lots and lots of it. It takes 20 million to run an Arca team, Busch is higher and Nextel Cup......staggering.

To most Americans , yes, MOST Americans, Nascar is it. The drivers have near Iconic status around the US. Most people can't tell you the capital of Montanna but they can damm sure tell you what number Dale Jr will be running next year and what colors his damm car is. That's how big Nascar is.

I can understand you not loking it. I don't like it much. But you can't deny what it is, a juggernaut.

[RutRoe]

Well said glides...thank you for trying to explain a little behind it. That's a very accurate description, although it's probably wasted on these dudes, since they obviously don't understand any of this.

NASCAR is garbage, hands down. I don't think that it should be considered racing and the cars are trash too.

You're about as bright as someone saying "all foreign cars are crap." Believe it or not, there are some people that think there's no Honda worth putting performance parts on at all.

What would you say to them ?

You offer no defense of your short sided statement and expect people to rally behind you. That's dumb. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there's a chance you might have no idea what you're talking about.

Wait... I just check. You don't. Good try though

[green91]

All of your arguments are very well spoken Rut. This is an argument i've had many times with friends and others alike and its so hard to try and change an ignorant person's mind. So rather than arguing my case i just enjoy the sport and feel sorry for those who cant.

[40th GT]

As a guy who works for the SPEED Channel, who goes to every race, and who loves NASCAR....

I"m guessing that most of you guys who are making fun on NASCAR have never been to a race. 2turbo4u, 2fast4whatever...

If you've never been to a race, to be frank, you have zero idea of what you're talking about. It's not your fault, but you just don't comprehend what goes into these cars, or the races, or why so many people love it.

Have you guys even been down in the Cup series garage after a practice? Have you seen the technology that people use to race? No. You haven't. and that's ok. But just because you don't like the SPORT, doesn't make you an expert.

For the people that don't think Toyota should be in NASCAR, that's the attitude that people make fun of the USA for. It's a dumb thing to say....why ?

Because the Camry is the only car model in NASCAR's Nextel Cup Series which is actually produced in the US. Yep.

Ford Fuzion, Monte Carlo - both made in Mexico....the Charger, in Canada. So techincally, until Toyota came in, there was no real American made car in cup. Certainly there were American manufacturers, but no cars.

The arguement that the racing sucks because they aren't cars in stock conditions is weak.

That hasn't been the case since the 60's. True that the cars seemed more similar until the late 80's, early 90's, but that's the extent of that arguement. They've almost never been STOCK.

If you are curious about things in NASCAR, ask... or do some research. But don't just spew lies and make stuff up because you think there's no skill in what they do.

Sure most of the tracks, well all but two races, have only left hand turns, that's true. But to imply that it's easy to do what these guys do every weekend is assanine.

For me, the best part about NASCAR is the people. The fans. They show up in numbers every weekend and support these guys that they relate with, and monetarily speaking, it's much larger and more powerful than almost any other motorsport. F1 is a more expensive sport, but clearly, they don't have the fans or the viewership here in the US to really compete with NASCAR.

Just know that when you guys say this stuff you're doing two things.

1. You're not being PRO-motorsports, which in the end, hurts all of us. Wether you like drifting, dirt track, go-karts, SCCA, or anything else, when you support one of them, it affects how the others are seen. Taking a positive view on them makes a difference. You don't have to love NASCAR by any means, but it paves the way for a lot more things than you can obviously comprehend.

2. You're just like the people who lie and BS about their cars and you get mad at for not knowing what they're talking about. Seriously, how many times has somone told you "Yeah it's a stock civic, but it runs 11's, cause it's an ex, we got some secret stuff done..." In the end, it's all crap, and you guys are no different.

Just because something's not your thing doesn't mean you need to rail it and make it something it's not.

I mean, I don't like sushi, but I'm not calling you a assface because you do, or say sushi in america is nothing like fresh sushi in one of Japan's ports. (I've never been to Japan-see what I mean)

And the COT was designed to be a safer, more affordable race car in the LONG run. Not in the SHORT run, meaning this year.

Rutledge

Amen.

+1.

[Glides]

Well said glides...thank you for trying to explain a little behind it. That's a very accurate description, although it's probably wasted on these dudes, since they obviously don't understand any of this.




You're about as bright as someone saying "all foreign cars are crap." Believe it or not, there are some people that think there's no Honda worth putting performance parts on at all.

What would you say to them ?

You offer no defense of your short sided statement and expect people to rally behind you. That's dumb. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there's a chance you might have no idea what you're talking about.

Wait... I just check. You don't. Good try though

Thanks man. Most people are just too lazy to actually look into something. They just glance and make an ingnorant judgement based on the basics. See a guy with a mullet and a Nascar shirt...must all be rednecks. Thats the sad part of America at this point in time. We are some of the dumbest smart people there are.

I'd rather have a Nascar team than an NHRA team, a Drift team or any other team except maybe a Formula one team. Because to have enough money to own a Nascar team means you got clout. No regular Joe owns a Nascar team. Specially not a Nextel cup team.

But then again, most of this stuff goes in one ear and out the other to most people cause most people are ****ing lazyass morons who snap judge everything and everyone they meet.

[Kalifornia087]

+1 for Rut.

I never really like Nascar on t.v, but didn't bash it either. I mean, when a feild of 40+ cars are trying to go that fast with a pubic hairs worth of clearence on all sides at some points, **** me thats skill if i've ever seen it.

I have been to 3 NASCAR races in person, while doing work for RaceCeiver (rut you may be familiar with them), and Holy **** NASCAR is so much cooler in real life.

If you hate on it, go to a race. You'll have a new perspective i can almost gauruntee it.

[DC nismo]

reps plz positive

[The Ninja]

Just my opinion, and I feel like voicing it. F1 >>>>> Nascar

I've been to numerous Nascar events, my dad loves the ****. I was at the Daytona 500 when Bush was there. I was there when his caravan was getting pelted with drinks and people were yelling profanities and giving him the middle finger on his way out. Yea, you didn't get to see that on TV.

I heard the strong ass boos from when he was saying "Gentlemen, start your engines." On TV you heard him say it clearly, in person I didn't know he said it until the engines started because those are the only things I heard over the "boos".

I think Nascar is garbage as well. I'm not saying it doesn't take money, or it doesn't take skill, I just think the sport is terrible. I'm not going to argue with you because it honestly doesn't matter that much to me, I just feel like expressing my opinion that Nascar blows camel balls.

When my dad used to take me along with him I rooted for Jeff Gordon, until my Dad pointed out to me that he cried on national TV..... :sigh:

[japan4racing]

lately i have been drifting away from from keeping up with nascar but im still a fan and i think its absolutly ratarded to say that the sport is garbage or any of the stupid comments ppl make about it. i dont like f1 but i dont go spouting off about how its a multi million dollar parade. i just dont watch it. i have watched a few and when they actualy get some racing going on (by racing i mean passing...not following) it gets very exciting. cars going that fast through turns and passing each other is bad ass. what im trying to say here is if you dont like nascar dont watch it.....i like all forms of racing but if i dont find one interesting i change the channel. no one is forcing you to watch nascar. and to anyone that thinks nascar is a bunch of dumb rednecks turning left and drinking beer....wow, you are really mentally challenged.

[green91]

Should be a good race today at homestead, its the last race for the cup! Im gonna be so pissed if jimmie johnson wins the cup again! This may be the first time ive cheered for jeff gordon

[DrivenMind]

Alright RutRoe you took the time to be patient, and respectful even though we were getting our jollies off talking ****; in return I'll try to give you a real response worth reading.

My biggest problem with NASCAR is the way it unabashedly overshadows every other single form of motorsport in the U.S. Plain and simple. It's like eating the same meal over, and over again for years. I'm dying for variety. But there's little to be found anymore, and don't take this personally, but I think SPEED Channel quit helping.

I absolutely cannot stand how much I see NASCAR on the network. I used to look forward to not knowing what I was going to find on Speedvision, be it Semi-Trucks racing on Motorsports Mundial, Off Road Championships, F1, WRC, IROC, SCCA, British Pro Touring, Rolex, Le Mans, The Ferrari Cup, Indy, Cart, MotoGP, Motocross, all that ****. Then slowly NASCAR took over. I guess Speedvision was in some financial need, because NASCAR, and the advertising for it seemed to simply take over.

I have no doubt that theres technology abound in Nextel Cup cars, I mean look at the budgets going into these things.

I hate NASCAR because of what it stands for. It's not about the competition. It's not about the racing. It's really not even about the cars anymore.

It's about advertising. It's about marketability, and it used to be/still is a method by which our domestic car manufacturers would try to pass off their ****ty, poorly developed cars, and sell them to a domestic NASCAR fan base, by relating them to cars that are absolutely nothing like their ****ty showroom counterparts.

Remember all the Chevy commercials featuring Dale Jr.? Yuck.

I hate NASCAR because when I was little kid I ****ing loved it. But as I grew up it just got more, and more boring. It didn't seem like these guys were pushing the cars. It just seemed like some kind of automated mechanical giant. Juggernaut is the best word I've heard used to describe NASCAR, it's unstoppable, and it's unavoidable. It's become so big that you can't get away from it. It's like racing for commies. There are other choices out there, but in the states, this is usually the only one your gonna get.

I understand peoples love for NASCAR, I really do, and almost any gearhead can sort of get why people like it. But as an enthusiast I hate how the Juggernaut has made all other forms of motor sports fight for a fraction of their deserved spotlight.

[SPOOLIN]

Yep, id really like to see some good stuff on speed channel. I never see anything anymore that i would like to watch. WRC FOR THE WIN

[Glides]

Alright RutRoe you took the time to be patient, and respectful even though we were getting our jollies off talking ****; in return I'll try to give you a real response worth reading.

My biggest problem with NASCAR is the way it unabashedly overshadows every other single form of motorsport in the U.S. Plain and simple. It's like eating the same meal over, and over again for years. I'm dying for variety. But there's little to be found anymore, and don't take this personally, but I think SPEED Channel quit helping.

I absolutely cannot stand how much I see NASCAR on the network. I used to look forward to not knowing what I was going to find on Speedvision, be it Semi-Trucks racing on Motorsports Mundial, Off Road Championships, F1, WRC, IROC, SCCA, British Pro Touring, Rolex, Le Mans, The Ferrari Cup, Indy, Cart, MotoGP, Motocross, all that ****. Then slowly NASCAR took over. I guess Speedvision was in some financial need, because NASCAR, and the advertising for it seemed to simply take over.

I have no doubt that theres technology abound in Nextel Cup cars, I mean look at the budgets going into these things.

I hate NASCAR because of what it stands for. It's not about the competition. It's not about the racing. It's really not even about the cars anymore.

It's about advertising. It's about marketability, and it used to be/still is a method by which our domestic car manufacturers would try to pass off their ****ty, poorly developed cars, and sell them to a domestic NASCAR fan base, by relating them to cars that are absolutely nothing like their ****ty showroom counterparts.

Remember all the Chevy commercials featuring Dale Jr.? Yuck.

I hate NASCAR because when I was little kid I ****ing loved it. But as I grew up it just got more, and more boring. It didn't seem like these guys were pushing the cars. It just seemed like some kind of automated mechanical giant. Juggernaut is the best word I've heard used to describe NASCAR, it's unstoppable, and it's unavoidable. It's become so big that you can't get away from it. It's like racing for commies. There are other choices out there, but in the states, this is usually the only one your gonna get.

I understand peoples love for NASCAR, I really do, and almost any gearhead can sort of get why people like it. But as an enthusiast I hate how the Juggernaut has made all other forms of motor sports fight for a fraction of their deserved spotlight.

Excellent post and you are absolutely right. This is the kind of post that I can actually respect because thought has gone into why, how and what the problem with Nascar and your fellings towards it. Excellent work.

Your entire post though goes back to what I said earlier. Nascar is made for a simpler folk. The everyday hardworking pipe fitter or brick layer that wants a hero of the people. Most Nascar hero's are southern, from the old days or from the old day families and country. Minus a few (Gordon) who is pretty much the given favorite to boo. Nascar has gone through great pains to develop and market to this crowd of Blue Collar workers. That's who brings them the money and who the majority of spectators are.

Plus add in the fact that they use the "America is great" to the fullest doesn't hurt either. That's the hook, the way to get people in. It's American cars on an American track. Most people that by American cars don't do it for the superb features or the super technology (because let's face it, American cars for the most part suck) they do it because it's American. And Dale drow a Chevy so by god, that must be the American thing to do. Like I said, Simple people, simple cars.

Formula one will never take off in the US like they want it too because of that reason right there. What sane American would ever want to get behind a Honda powered race car???? Not my father and usually not anyone over the age of 30.

But yes, it is rotting racing out in some form. Speed channel was just the latest of casualties from the ever moving mass effect that is Nascar.

[2Fast4Radar]

Alright RutRoe you took the time to be patient, and respectful even though we were getting our jollies off talking ****; in return I'll try to give you a real response worth reading.

My biggest problem with NASCAR is the way it unabashedly overshadows every other single form of motorsport in the U.S. Plain and simple. It's like eating the same meal over, and over again for years. I'm dying for variety. But there's little to be found anymore, and don't take this personally, but I think SPEED Channel quit helping.

I absolutely cannot stand how much I see NASCAR on the network. I used to look forward to not knowing what I was going to find on Speedvision, be it Semi-Trucks racing on Motorsports Mundial, Off Road Championships, F1, WRC, IROC, SCCA, British Pro Touring, Rolex, Le Mans, The Ferrari Cup, Indy, Cart, MotoGP, Motocross, all that ****. Then slowly NASCAR took over. I guess Speedvision was in some financial need, because NASCAR, and the advertising for it seemed to simply take over.

I have no doubt that theres technology abound in Nextel Cup cars, I mean look at the budgets going into these things.

I hate NASCAR because of what it stands for. It's not about the competition. It's not about the racing. It's really not even about the cars anymore.

It's about advertising. It's about marketability, and it used to be/still is a method by which our domestic car manufacturers would try to pass off their ****ty, poorly developed cars, and sell them to a domestic NASCAR fan base, by relating them to cars that are absolutely nothing like their ****ty showroom counterparts.

Remember all the Chevy commercials featuring Dale Jr.? Yuck.

I hate NASCAR because when I was little kid I ****ing loved it. But as I grew up it just got more, and more boring. It didn't seem like these guys were pushing the cars. It just seemed like some kind of automated mechanical giant. Juggernaut is the best word I've heard used to describe NASCAR, it's unstoppable, and it's unavoidable. It's become so big that you can't get away from it. It's like racing for commies. There are other choices out there, but in the states, this is usually the only one your gonna get.

I understand peoples love for NASCAR, I really do, and almost any gearhead can sort of get why people like it. But as an enthusiast I hate how the Juggernaut has made all other forms of motor sports fight for a fraction of their deserved spotlight.

This is spot on. Beyond the fact that I think NASCAR is in and of itself an insufferable spectacle of racing, I also loathe NASCAR because of its overall dominance that has left no choices to watch any other form of racing in this country.

I like the idea of cars from the dealer showroom racing instead of purpose built tube framed chassis stickered out to pseudo-resemble a real car. Why anyone would buy a Monte Carlo because they call a car racing in NASCAR a Monte Carlo is beyond me. No matter how "simple" someone is I find it hard to believe that they would find any resemblance between the car they see on TV and the one on the dealership lot save for the nameplate. Why go through all of the motions?

It's these simple minded, stuck thinking inside the box people that are really hurting our car market. We simply build poor quality vehicles pushed through by an older generation of simple minded executives geared to simple minded consumers who love simple minded racing. That's fine until you look at who we export our cars to - basically NOBODY. Because NOBODY outside the US has much interest buying them. Hell we can barely sell them to citizens of this country who are proud to be US citizens - myself included. Now there's some exceptions - Jeremy Clarkson would drive a ZO6 or a Ford GT, but like everyone else from his homeland Clarkson wouldn't be caught dead driving an Impala or Caliber around in place of a comparable Peugot or Nissan. That's why there aren't Chevrolet dealerships all over Asia or Europe, yet the US has an enormous list of import dealerships.