The disaster WAS bush's fault with PROOF

[Brett]

It was the administration as a whole who cut the funding. The job and request for money was requested for a reason - because Louisana saw a problem and wanted to fix it. But since that funding was cut so drastically, the levees couldn't be repaired as needed.

And so the people who designed them in the 60's.... wasnt thier fault, and the fact from the start they knew it wasnt enough, but now Bush to you is liable for 40+ years of playing with fate? are you this fuckin stupid?

[4dmin]

An interesting theory, however, and as I stated in this thread before:

1) You have no way of knowing how much money it would have actually taken to repair it.

2) You have no idea whether it was Bush who personally cut the budget. Congressional budgets are initially created by, you guessed it, Congress.

3) There are a hundred sob stories every DAY from organizations and people who didn't get enough of a handout from the federal government. The care of NO's levees should be state funded. Do you have information about how much money they recieved from the state for this pursuit? I imagine the cut was probably made to try and wean NO and LA off the federal teat and get them to pay for state infrastructure with state funds.

4) Most of this funding cut was set to take place in 2006. It is 2005 now.

5) Reinforcing the levees is not an 'insert coin, *poof* they're fixed' type of situation. It's a years-long effort. Even if they'd gotten every cent they'd wanted, it would have taken years.

My question to you would be, then, why don't these things occur to you on your own? Do you ever question the information you recieve? Analyze? Do research?

funding has been cut for the past 5-10 years on such projects... does bush, local/federal gov't have a part in this? yes. they had this shit on primetime last night as well. if the warning signs are there, and we know if a catagory 4 hits it will mean devestation, why would you cut funding to fix the situation? this situation is a gov't failure on all levels.

[malfeas99]

It was to take years to fix the levee's - you are correct. The 'Council' heading up the replacement of these levees needed so many millions of dollars per year to get these fixed - they didn't get even half of what they were asking for this year. I also said the BUSH ADMINISTRATION (including Senate, etc.) cut the funding - I know it wasn't all Bush. It was the administration as a whole who cut the funding. The job and request for money was requested for a reason - because Louisana saw a problem and wanted to fix it. But since that funding was cut so drastically, the levees couldn't be repaired as needed.

So they didn't get half of what they needed. Unfortunately there's no data that I know of that says how much it would have actually taken. These groups tend to request far more money than they need from the federal government for several reasons: They know they won't get it so they highball it, they want it for other pork projects, they're corrupt and want to line their pockets, etc.

As I said, care of the Levees should have been a state and city issue. It's not like the federal funds were the only source of money. They shouldn't have expected a single cent from the federal government, but they got millions.. just not as many millions as they wanted.

How does this make the federal government complicit in the disaster? It doesn't. There's a lot of holes in this story, and only people who have made up their minds about it already will accept it as legitimate 'proof' of anything.

[A.P. Photography]

It was to take years to fix the levee's - you are correct. The 'Council' heading up the replacement of these levees needed so many millions of dollars per year to get these fixed - they didn't get even half of what they were asking for this year. I also said the BUSH ADMINISTRATION (including Senate, etc.) cut the funding - I know it wasn't all Bush. It was the administration as a whole who cut the funding. The job and request for money was requested for a reason - because Louisana saw a problem and wanted to fix it. But since that funding was cut so drastically, the levees couldn't be repaired as needed.

The point is that no matter what they say now, it was too short of a time frame to repair the levee's before this happened. Even if they had started to rebuild them, yes they would have to do that in order to strengthen them, people would still be crying they did not do enough. If the levee's had been designed to withstand a Cat. 5 in the first place, this might not have been near as bad as it is now.

[Kristi]

did i say that brett? ummm, no. and don't call me fucking stupid.

i'm sure that people 40 years ago thought the levees were adaquate. or maybe that is the best that they could do, who knows. but other administrations saw a problem and kept funding going to help with the New Orleans area - including wet land space, run through test evacuations and help if a diaster did occur - but this administration stopped all that.

[malfeas99]

Neg- Points for GA Teg and malfeas99 for actin like hard asses.

If by 'actin like hard asses' you mean 'using one's brain', then yes, I'll accept the negative points.

[4dmin]

I seriously doubt you started the bush-bashing bandwagon. Some of us think of things on terms larger than a website.

does someone need a tampon??? did you not see that it was a joke? you seriously need to lightenup, this is a discussion not a battle.

[malfeas99]

funding has been cut for the past 5-10 years on such projects... does bush, local/federal gov't have a part in this? yes. they had this shit on primetime last night as well. if the warning signs are there, and we know if a catagory 4 hits it will mean devestation, why would you cut funding to fix the situation? this situation is a gov't failure on all levels.

I'm sure in hindsight, it's very easy to say that. The fact is that NO has been playing russian roulette since it was founded. The original design of the levees was lacking. Why didn't you blame Louisiana and new orleans first for not making it a priority? It's a lot easier and more efficient for states to appropriate money than the fed. government.

Like I've said a dozen times, the responsibility for a city's infrastructure goes as follows:

1) City
2) State
3) Federal

But no, you went and blamed Bush directly. Cuz you hate him.

Good thinking!

[A.P. Photography]

did i say that brett? ummm, no. and don't call me fucking stupid.

i'm sure that people 40 years ago thought the levees were adaquate. or maybe that is the best that they could do, who knows. but other administrations saw a problem and kept funding going to help with the New Orleans area - including wet land space, run through test evacuations and help if a diaster did occur - but this administration stopped all that.

Read my past post, they built them to a Cat. 3 because it was "cost effective". They knew in the '60's that if N.O. took a direct hit it would wipe out but they decided at that time that building them to a Cat. 3 strength would be sufficient and more cost effective.

[Kristi]

The point is that no matter what they say now, it was too short of a time frame to repair the levee's before this happened. Even if they had started to rebuild them, yes they would have to do that in order to strengthen them, people would still be crying they did not do enough. If the levee's had been designed to withstand a Cat. 5 in the first place, this might not have been near as bad as it is now.

No one knows that if they had begun to be rebuilt if they would have held up better or not, but there is a chance that it might have and there wouldn't be such a problem now. The point is is that this administration had the opportunity to keep replacements going and they hindered the process and so now we won't ever know if they would have stopped anything or not. Experts say that even the slightest replacements could have helped some - and some is better than not at all. and you are probably right - even if they had been replaced - someone would still be bitching that it wasn't enough - but at least a step was taken.

[malfeas99]

does someone need a tampon??? did you not see that it was a joke? you seriously need to lightenup, this is a discussion not a battle.

Yes, I need a tampon. I have a vagina, and it is bleeding. And there's sand in it.

This may come as a surprise to some of you.

[A.P. Photography]

does someone need a tampon??? did you not see that it was a joke? you seriously need to lightenup, this is a discussion not a battle.

He didn't start the bandwagon but he did get it bigger

[AznTraitor]

I'm sure in hindsight, it's very easy to say that. The fact is that NO has been playing russian roulette since it was founded. The original design of the levees was lacking. Why didn't you blame Louisiana and new orleans first for not making it a priority? It's a lot easier and more efficient for states to appropriate money than the fed. government.

Like I've said a dozen times, the responsibility for a city's infrastructure goes as follows:

1) City
2) State
3) Federal

But no, you went and blamed Bush directly. Cuz you hate him.

Good thinking!

EXACTLY, but I think Admin(Paul) already agrees with your infastructure....

[Kristi]

funding has been cut for the past 5-10 years on such projects... does bush, local/federal gov't have a part in this? yes. they had this shit on primetime last night as well. if the warning signs are there, and we know if a catagory 4 hits it will mean devestation, why would you cut funding to fix the situation? this situation is a gov't failure on all levels.

i agree with you. good post.

[A.P. Photography]

No one knows that if they had begun to be rebuilt if they would have held up better or not, but there is a chance that it might have and there wouldn't be such a problem now. The point is is that this administration had the opportunity to keep replacements going and they hindered the process and so now we won't ever know if they would have stopped anything or not. Experts say that even the slightest replacements could have helped some - and some is better than not at all. and you are probably right - even if they had been replaced - someone would still be bitching that it wasn't enough - but at least a step was taken.

From an engineering stand point, no it would not have been done in time. Every single levee would have to be rebuilt and their are miles and miles of levee's there to rebuild.

[B16a2 Civic]

does someone need a tampon??? did you not see that it was a joke? you seriously need to lightenup, this is a discussion not a battle.

exactly, i dont dislike anyonen here for pointing their opinion, even tho me and Paul and a few others have different views, i still like him as a person and nothing has changed, just like every other person on here...including kristi and her sister...thsi is a discusion not a battle, if thats the case, all of IA will be torn into two sides and alot of drama and fighting will take place all day everyday...basically i feel it should all stay in this thread and all related threads.....i hope no one feels animosity toward me for what i have said and how i feel....because i dont toward any of you who disagree with what i have said earlier

[Kristi]

From an engineering stand point, no it would not have been done in time. Every single levee would have to be rebuilt and their are miles and miles of levee's there to rebuild.

Sorry - I was a little vague in that response. I didn't mean that all levee's had to be rebuilt, i'm jsut saying that maybe if some of them had been rebuilt, or at least some of them strengthened, then maybe there wouldn't be as big of a problem (with flooding).

[Brett]

did i say that brett? ummm, no. and don't call me fucking stupid.

i'm sure that people 40 years ago thought the levees were adaquate. or maybe that is the best that they could do, who knows. but other administrations saw a problem and kept funding going to help with the New Orleans area - including wet land space, run through test evacuations and help if a diaster did occur - but this administration stopped all that.

So out off all the presidents in the past 40 years it comes to Bush being the one you claim should be liable for the 40 years of the levee that they knew from day one wasnt enough to stop a major storm?

[Kristi]

exactly, i dont dislike anyonen here for pointing their opinion, even tho me and Paul and a few others have different views, i still like him as a person and nothing has changed, just like every other person on here...including kristi and her sister...thsi is a discusion not a battle, if thats the case, all of IA will be torn into two sides and alot of drama and fighting will take place all day everyday...basically i feel it should all stay in this thread and all related threads.....i hope no one feels animosity toward me for what i have said and how i feel....because i dont toward any of you who disagree with what i have said earlier

i still think you are a monkey butt just playing with ya

[malfeas99]

Sorry - I was a little vague in that response. I didn't mean that all levee's had to be rebuilt, i'm jsut saying that maybe if some of them had been rebuilt, or at least some of them strengthened, then maybe there wouldn't be as big of a problem (with flooding).

Well then I don't think you're asking the right question, which is:

Why hadn't any of them been strengthened up till now?

The money was there. It was less money, but they had it. It doesn't even count the money that the state and city appropriated for it. Most of the funding cuts weren't scheduled to happen till 2006. So it's not as though these people were penniless and waiting for a check to get this started.

[Kristi]

So out off all the presidents in the past 40 years it comes to Bush being the one you claim should be liable for the 40 years of the levee that they knew from day one wasnt enough to stop a major storm?

No, the Bush administration cut the funding. Past administrations kept funding going and did do something to reduce the risk to N.O. Clinton tried to keep more wetlands cause they help with reducing the hurricane, but this administration gave way to have those wetlands built on. Other administrations could have done more - I'm not saying that they did the best, but this administration didnt do hardly anything to prevent something like this. They hindered the whole thing.

[A.P. Photography]

Sorry - I was a little vague in that response. I didn't mean that all levee's had to be rebuilt, i'm jsut saying that maybe if some of them had been rebuilt, or at least some of them strengthened, then maybe there wouldn't be as big of a problem (with flooding).

While I can understand your perspective, let me see if I can show you what I mean. Say that the area where the levee broke was strengthend up to a Cat. 5 level. That area is stronger now but the pressure moves on to the weaker area in the levee wall. Imagine you have a large swimming pool that is made to withstand 2000 psi but one section was only made to withstand 1000 psi. The pool sustains a constant pressure of 1700 psi. All of the pool would hold except for the 1000 psi area which would give way because it was not designed to hold that pressure. Same thing with rebuilding certain sections of a levee.

[malfeas99]

No, the Bush administration cut the funding. Past administrations kept funding going and did do something to reduce the risk to N.O. Clinton tried to keep more wetlands cause they help with reducing the hurricane, but this administration gave way to have those wetlands built on. Other administrations could have done more - I'm not saying that they did the best, but this administration didnt do hardly anything to prevent something like this. They hindered the whole thing.

So if there was all this funding up till recently, why weren't any levees strengthened up till now? Why is it suddenly a huge crisis when Bush is in office and they start to reign in federal funding for what should be primarily state and city-based projects? Do you even know if the state or city was going to make up the difference in funding, making it a complete wash anyways?

That's why this information is useless.

[Brett]

No, the Bush administration cut the funding. Past administrations kept funding going and did do something to reduce the risk to N.O. Clinton tried to keep more wetlands cause they help with reducing the hurricane, but this administration gave way to have those wetlands built on. Other administrations could have done more - I'm not saying that they did the best, but this administration didnt do hardly anything to prevent something like this. They hindered the whole thing.

and like has been posted atleast 3 times now, that wasnt taking effect till 2006, so how is that again effecting now? And again, its his fault the past 40 years they didnt do anything that was needed? Wetlands wouldnt stop this disaster. The pumps being raised and put on stands would have helped ALOT to get water out as it came in, Doesnt take much money to put pumps on stands so they arent at ground level so when water rushs in, so again how is 40+ years of neglect isnt his fault.

[4dmin]

I'm sure in hindsight, it's very easy to say that. The fact is that NO has been playing russian roulette since it was founded. The original design of the levees was lacking. Why didn't you blame Louisiana and new orleans first for not making it a priority? It's a lot easier and more efficient for states to appropriate money than the fed. government.

Like I've said a dozen times, the responsibility for a city's infrastructure goes as follows:

1) City
2) State
3) Federal

But no, you went and blamed Bush directly. Cuz you hate him.

Good thinking!

WOW YOUR RIGHT I NEVER NAMED THE LOCAL/FEDERAL GOV'T JUST BUSH!!! :jerkit:

maybe next time i'll number them in order so you can read them.

Yes, I need a tampon. I have a vagina, and it is bleeding. And there's sand in it.

This may come as a surprise to some of you.

no not really

[Brett]

Paul, answer my PM!! I saw you reading it fucker!!

[Leisa]

well its not like all this fucking bickering is going to fix all the problems at hand now.. hindsight is 20/20.... you live and learn, they now (I am assuming) know what needs to be done, and when all this chaos is over and done with lets just pray that things get back to normal...

[malfeas99]

WOW YOUR RIGHT I NEVER NAMED THE LOCAL/FEDERAL GOV'T JUST BUSH!!! :jerkit:

maybe next time i'll number them in order so you can read them.

no not really

-Bush is a fucking idiot and i think his lack of resolution for the on going problem is a disgrace for everything we as americans stand for... we have a region now that is just as bad if not worse off then a 3rd world country

-Another note: for those talking about the levy system... gov't funding has been cut there for the past 5-10years for projects such as that. How can you fix something you have no money for??? This is a known gov't problem that has never been resolved now 1000's must die b/c assholes in DC rather spend 1 billion dollars a day in Iraq.

-ANOTHER REASON BUSH IS A JACKASS!!!

-really it took how many days to do a fly over there??? are you fucking mad, the president of the USA, is the most powerful man in the world, if it takes him almost a week to get to a disaster area then there is a severe problem. it would be different if he put effort 1st to securing the area, but he has not. i don't know what news you have been watching but shit has been crazy all week. Where is the Commander and chief? playing golf? having lunch??? vacation???

-the reason its not secure is b/c Bush has us spread too thin, we are at war w/ 2 countries, and he didn't leave enough balls to defend his own country from mother nature

Yeah, you really came in here with guns blazing blaming the local government. No, that took you till page 7 to even mention it.

Why do you say such silly things when people can just click a few times to prove you wrong?

[Brett]

You need to quote the parts that arent yours, I thought that was all what you were sayin till I realized it was Pauls post you posted...LOL

[4dmin]

-Bush is a fucking idiot and i think his lack of resolution for the on going problem is a disgrace for everything we as americans stand for... we have a region now that is just as bad if not worse off then a 3rd world country

-Another note: for those talking about the levy system... gov't funding has been cut there for the past 5-10years for projects such as that. How can you fix something you have no money for??? This is a known gov't problem that has never been resolved now 1000's must die b/c assholes in DC rather spend 1 billion dollars a day in Iraq.

-ANOTHER REASON BUSH IS A JACKASS!!!

-really it took how many days to do a fly over there??? are you fucking mad, the president of the USA, is the most powerful man in the world, if it takes him almost a week to get to a disaster area then there is a severe problem. it would be different if he put effort 1st to securing the area, but he has not. i don't know what news you have been watching but shit has been crazy all week. Where is the Commander and chief? playing golf? having lunch??? vacation???

-the reason its not secure is b/c Bush has us spread too thin, we are at war w/ 2 countries, and he didn't leave enough balls to defend his own country from mother nature


Yeah, you really came in here with guns blazing blaming the local government. No, that took you till page 7 to even mention it.

Why do you say such silly things when people can just click a few times to prove you wrong?

7 pages really... do i need to prove you wrong? since you want to quote me...

i agree, but everyone is at fault starting from the mayor to DC.

This is a known gov't problem that has never been resolved now 1000's must die b/c assholes in DC rather spend 1 billion dollars a day in Iraq.

both of those were on page one & page two of different threads.. by the way it was posted before lunch time too. so get your shit straight before you want to call me out.

[Brett]

so go right ahead and think i'm on bush-hating-bandwagon.... i fucking started it on here ask Brett/Jamie.

Yes, me and Paul have had MANY debates on here in the past 4+ years on Bush topic, I always enjoy a good debate with people who research what they talk about, before posting it.

[technoteg97]

ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSITUTION


" WE ARE OUT HERE LIKE ANIMALS,..WE DON'T HAVE HELP!?

[Brett]

Instead of doing quotes, do research, and you dont have to quote what we all know is going on in NOL.

[B16a2 Civic]

ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSITUTION


" WE ARE OUT HERE LIKE ANIMALS,..WE DON'T HAVE HELP!?

.....

[technoteg97]

Research..Go look it up yourself smart Man. cause its all very true..so little help..most people in miss. and Alabama still dont have help. Slow Response.

[malfeas99]

7 pages really... do i need to prove you wrong? since you want to quote me...





both of those were on page one & page two of different threads.. by the way it was posted before lunch time too. so get your shit straight before you want to call me out.

You're right, your first comment was on page 5, not 7. I think my point still stands.

And, as for your second comment, you do know that New Orleans is in Louisiana, and the seat of the federal government is DC, right? So this doesn't help your case when you say you were blaming the local governments first.

In this thread, you went right for Bush, and had nobody called you on it, you would have stayed there.

Do we really need to have a discussion about how many times you were wrong or shown to be misinformed in this thread? 'empty sarin canister' ring a bell?

[A.P. Photography]

Research..Go look it up yourself smart Man. cause its all very true..so little help..most people in miss. and Alabama still dont have help. Slow Response.

So you even understand how large this hurricane was? A lot of the areas in Al and Ms are inaccessible at this time and they can't get in to them. The places they can get to are getting help you just don't see that much about them because they are acting civil compared to N.O.

[Julio]

technoteg97 you need to shut the fuck up or You will be ban for fucking ever.


Interesting thread. Im surprised jaime is not in here..

Anyways.. I agree with malfeas99 150% he made more valid points then anyone else in this thread.
He Even said a couple of times he does not like bush.

Me personally wouldnt blame bush for nothing. Im sure hes doing anything in his power.

Im willing to bet If bush was there MONDAY when the disaster started he wouldve still Be bashed. Why send the Most important man in our goverment and in the world to that mess at this moment? Does not make sense. Wait until things somewhat calm down and then make a move....

Honestly, Theres no one to blame for the disaster but mother nature. Theres nothing in this world that can fuck with mother nature. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
I really dont care for bush.. But I agree with valid points when I see or read them.

[Brett]

Research..Go look it up yourself smart Man. cause its all very true..so little help..most people in miss. and Alabama still dont have help. Slow Response.

And you quoting a headline is news to anyone who is even remotley aware of the events this week. Again... Post up stuff that has meaning, not alot to ask.

[Brett]

technoteg97 you need to shut the fuck up or You will be ban for fucking ever.

Damn even the owner of the site thinks you are a fucking moron!! Way to get on the good side of the right people on here