i have a 91 N/A FC,and i want to put a turbocharger on it,wil it all go...just like a aftermarket turbo,also what some other ways to gain HP?
I need Rotary Help
i have a 91 N/A FC,and i want to put a turbocharger on it,wil it all go...just like a aftermarket turbo,also what some other ways to gain HP?
How many miles are on it? I would consider swapping a rebuilt or low mileage turbo engine in it if I were you. Seeing as an aftermarket turbo could be pricey and you may be nearing time to replace your engine. Just a thought.
***Lotus Elise***
BlackWatchRacing/Sector111/Larini Exhausts/Difflow Diffusers/Classic Livery of Atlanta Paint/APR Performance
Originally Posted by E36slide
nevermind,i found what im gonna do...thanks though
hmmm just curious what are you going to do?
One Big Ass Mistake America
im gonna do a cat back,and cold air intake,leave the engine alone,it runs to good to fuck with it,maybe do something later.I talked to uncle(he works on Rotarys)and he said trying to turbo a N/A will bring way more bad than good,i might get a Turbo engine sometime.....but i only got 60K on my engine,so im gonna stick with it for now.
How long do ur gen rx7's run with rotary? 80K?
***Lotus Elise***
BlackWatchRacing/Sector111/Larini Exhausts/Difflow Diffusers/Classic Livery of Atlanta Paint/APR Performance
u keep them oiled 150K+...iv seen some with 280K
For real, I guesss it was just newer ones that mandated early rebuilds.
***Lotus Elise***
BlackWatchRacing/Sector111/Larini Exhausts/Difflow Diffusers/Classic Livery of Atlanta Paint/APR Performance
yea, i mean if u dogg them and treat like shit ,they arnt gonna last 50K
if you dont maintain a rotary they tend to die early. you can run them hard all day long just keep a eye on the temp and oil press. if you drive "miss daisy" with them they will die from carbon build up on the rotors. you can turbo your if it has lower miles on it. just make sure that you get it enough fuel so it wont detonate. a guy on RX7Club.com turbo'd his NA with 80K and it lasted for a while and finally a faulty wastegate killed it. turbo cars are the ones that dont make it much over 100K.
One Big Ass Mistake America
My turbo motor lasted 140k
IA Rules doesn't allow these images in sigs
- IA Mgmt
my brother is working on 170k
the na motors are good till something goes horribly wrong.
and your s5 NA has higher compression rotors, so turbo is not the smart thing.
if you wanna go turbo, your best bet would be a s5 TII motor, and just do the swap.
and you could always go with the v8 route....ls1,ls2,ls6,or if you just loaded..ls7 the ls swap is a very common swap
if u were gonna stay na go with a street port job it will help out alot with hp gain then if u wanna go turbo rebuild or buy a turbo motor and street port that one also u will love it.
the 4 port 13b makes the most power no matter what set up you have.
on rotaries, your suppose to dog thempushed the apex seals outward and keeps that compression up, that way you dont get carbon lock in those motors.
Cheapest way to make power is the bottle, period.
TRUE...
I Agree 100%. Cheapest way to make power would be to just strap on that tank. Rotary love NOS just like Mustang do.... You would not feel to much of a difference with Intake and Exhaust. ------>>>> NOS<<<<-----
POSITIVE IS HOW I LIVE ST.CROIX U.S.V.I
First off, I love your car. I had a black 90 GXL. The black FCs are so bloody rare, specially a S5
Do exhaust headers first if you going to mod. The header is ultra restrictive and while you at it, converted to a single high flow cat...if you want to stay green, if not, just take them off. check out this forum, slcrotary.com, small community, but smart people and great forum. Don't run higher octane than 87 or 85 if you are in high altitude. NA FC dont like high octane unless you got the timing set for it. all you will do is lose gas milage and power. Dont run synthetic, unless you dont have cats. And do Rev it out from time to time, so you dont get carbon build up and pop an apex seal. Just some useful tips if you didnt already know.
If you going turbo rotary with stock NA drivetrain, dont go over 250whp. but if you do a regular piston motor swap, the drivetrain is good for 500whp.
If you do a turbo, Dont worry about the high comp rotors, just make sure you got fuel management. My friend is making about 230-250 whp in his S5 NA with 7-8 psi.
If you go T2, then you need to swap everything out from motor to rearend.
Everything else is good, but please rethink this statement.
Torque is what snaps things. To the rearend, it doesn't care if you have 250hp or 500hp. Torque is what will kill it. A LS1 or 302 will make a lot more torque that a T2 motor. And the way you drive it will make a lot of difference also. Dragstrip starts will kill it a lot faster than daily driving. You could have 1000hp/1000Tq and not snap the stock drivetrain IF you drove it like a grandma.
I know what you are saying, but the reason a non-t2 drivetrain will not hold up is do to the oscillation that rotary motors puts out. I researched this about 2 years ago. i think on teamfc3s.org or rx7city.com i dont remember which one. but there are full write ups about the NA drivetrain with pictures of "if" you dont heed the warnings. the diff literally will blow out of the casing
That statement makes zero sense. The transmission back doesn't see an "oscillation" - it doesn't matter if you have a piston or rotary motor. Even if you have a piston engine, the motor still only consistantly spins one way (the crankshaft doesn't go back and forth). Obviously, no motor oscillates it's output to the transmission.
The reason that the tranny, rear end, driveshaft, etc won't hold up is simply that they were not designed to be strong enough to hold the higher torque outputs.
The diff on the N/A driveline is pretty weak, but again it comes down to torque outputs. It holds up fine to daily driving, just won't handle drag starts. Whether the motor is piston or rotary doesn't matter. And it doesn't matter if it is a 500hp motor or a 200hp motor. What matters is how much torque is being placed upon it.
K. ill search it again and post it for you. It might take me a day or more, i dont know. Since I was planning on a KA-T into mine prior to me selling the car, I did a ton of research along with my friend who was helping me get the set-up.
Now that is interesting. Why did you want to go with the KA-T? That seems like a lot more work for basically the same power levels. Did you already have the motor?
I had a rebuilt volvo t3, KA-DE and trans, ITBs, 555cc, and nothing better to do. So My friend and I were thinking about doing an LS1 swap, but it was kinda redneckish so we decided not to. As we talked about it more and more, KA-T = cheap (since we already had all those parts) We reseached around and the highest whp on a stock KA block/head is 528 that some guy got on a dyno, so 300-350 whp was realistic and reliable on the stock motor. But, when i got home from vacation a guy offered me 2500 for my FC so I sold her. But doing the KA into a FC requires a new crossmember to clear the oil pan, or dry sump(which was what we were going to do), but besides that everything else was cake. Oh, driveline needed to made, but we know a shop that will build an alum to fit the KA trans and the FC rear for 500. everything was going to cost like 2K to get the thing running. it was a good idea, but cant turn 2500 down. update on the research, still looking....
That would definately be different.
Guess Wat... I finally found it, just havent found the picture of the blown diff...still working on that one. after looking in rx7city, teamfc3s, nopiston, slcrotary, fc3s.org, and other smaller forums, I remembered it was in a V8 conversion topic...
FROM granny's General Info"...The stock RX-7 rear axles are amazingly durable (internally, the parts are similar in size and even stronger than the Chevy 10 bolt that comes in the newer Z-28). While we offer bolt-in narrowed rear housings and axles for the 1st gen. cars, unless you are REALLY going to abuse it, we suggest you try the stock rear first. There are many V-8 powered 2nd gen RX-7s on slicks running mid-10 sec 1/4 mi times on the stock rear, a feat that requires 475-500hp. The clutch type limited slip up thru '88 is very strong 4 pinion style much like the diff design used in the Dana 60. Although it may be hard to believe, the rotary powered RX-7 drag racers are probably harder on the rear than the V-8 powered guys. The reasoning behind this is that most all rotary powered RX-7 drag racers use a manual transmission, a metallic clutch, and a heavy flywheel spinning at 9-10K rpm to assist the low torque rotary in launching the car. An incredible amount of stored energy is released into the rotary drivetrain to launch the car, enough to launch the car well even if the rotary engine died on the line. In the case of the V-8, plenty of torque is on tap to allow low rpm starts, also making it much easier to modulate the power to make the most of available traction."
you love me now?
Didnt you just prove his point?
The rear end that they are talkiing about is the 2nd gen TII rear end. That is not the same as the 2nd gen N/A rear, or the 1st gen or 3rd gen rears. That was available from 87-91 on the T11s.
And your quote just proved my point. The rotary is much easier on the driveline. If you were to rev up a V8 to high rpms with slicks like the rotarys and launch the car, when it hooked up it would snap the rear end easier.
You have to compare apples to apple and oranges to oranges. You are talking about lauching a rotary at high rpms vs launching a V8 at low rpms. Those are very different torque points. If you lauch either engine at the same torque level, you will put the entire driveline (tranny, driveshaft, rear end, axles, wheels, etc) under the exact same amount of stress - regardless of engine type. This is simple physics.
I have noticed that the S5 came with VLSD. the information i gave was talking about the S4 NA clutch-pack LSD, which is the same construction as the T2 clutch type, but different final gearing(dont remember well, but nothing a single search on any FC forum cant fix). The article is huge and posts on the piston swaps are lengthy and abundant. I just found couple KA swapped into FC that I guess were completed within last year. tons of SRs, 1jz, 2jz, RBs. I gave a very small portion of the article that i got it from. I dont bloody care anymore to go on on this. grannyspeedshop.com and read up. dont forget to use the search on piston motor swaps into FCs. Just make sure to type in the motor codes rather than "piston swaps", nothing comes up under that. I would of thought a car that ran Mid-10s would of gave a way the fact that it needed to be launched rather than just drive it like around town style. If that car didnt launch off the line to get a mid-10s...I would love to see its 1/4 times when it does.
Have you seen Mustangs that run 10's? Tires are in the air.
Launching isn't about stressing the driveline. It is about efficently getting the maximum push going forward.
Here is some info you will probably enjoy: http://www.baselinesuspensions.com Check the "Launching a Drag Car" page. Good info there. Kevin Slaby is a very knowledgeable.
Again, the engine is producing the same torque and stress on the driveline from either engine when at the same output level. It doesn'nt matter whether the engine internally has oscillating pistons or spinning rotors. It doesn't matter if the engine spins a crankshaft or an eccentric shaft. The bottom line is if the engine is putting out 330tq, it's putting out 330tq. 330tq is not more force coming out of one motor because it's a different engine type. There is no denying simple physics, or common sense. So a piston motor at 500hp is not easier on the driveline than a 300hp rotary - because the horsepower has nothing to do with it. The torque is what breaks and twist things.
BTW - I am very familiar with Grannys. A friend of mine has a 2nd gen vert with a 302 that I have spent some time on. And you are right that the TII driveline holds up pretty well. He has TII driveline, and takes it to the track occasionally, but he is only pushing about 350rwhp.
As for V8s - I have a supercharged 302. It's slow. Don't think that all V8s are fast.
I also have had many Rx7s and have a FD right now. It's slow also. But exactly as fast as the V8, but with less hp and tq. It is more fun though.
If you want to see a mid 10's run with no launch - watch any Supra at the track. Sorry, I couldn't resist. :-)
guys... the man isnt trying to build a drag car. He quoted somthing that read "heavy flywheel" and metal clutch. Hello, I dont think this guy is going to have 15" wide slicks and a metal clutch. NA drivetrain sucks major monkey nuts any way you slice it. I had a GTUs (N/A drivetrain) with a TII motor swap, the trans is the first to go in that situation, the rear second. If he wants speed its a full TII swap or V8 w/ that engines trans + TII rear and custom shaft. People have supercharged the crap out of the N/As and only seen 250hp. Bolt ons should suffice untill you have the bank for big upgrades. My sugestion is to enjoy the car untill you have the money to go buy a decent S4 TII. You can by an RTEK for that bitch and go crazy from there.
Silly ricer, wings are for planes!
No one was talking about N/A driveline. The same physics apply to any driveline.
There are N/A's making 300hp with no poweradder btw. Check PR P-ports. Of course, they don't live very long.....
TII driveline is definately the way to go. There is no disagreement on that. My only comment is that it doesn't matter what engine it is to the driveline.
Oh yeah, and a 20B > your V8....
are u guys upgrading yur rx7's for drag or drift? the high compression NA from 91 rx7's are made with same horse power as the turbo! very bad idea to slap on a turbo. it is already high compressioned rotors. slap on turbo's are only good for 1986 to 1988 rx7 NA... it is IDEAL to just swap from NA to a T2 Motor that way u wont blow up yur high compressioned engine. (i wish i have that high compressioned engine in my rx7) ATTENTION!! : PLSS! DO NOT SWAP A v8 INTO AN RX-7!!" TRUST ME..SWAPING A V8 TO A '7 = MONEY+ MONEY+ MONEY+ TIME+ TIME+WORK+WORK...NOT ONLY THAT BUT IT IS A RIDICULOUS IDEA!...IT IS POSSIBLE BUT IT IS NOT WORTH IT. WHY PUT A V8 ON AN RX7 (IT'S A PERFECT MACHINE) IF U WANT V8 POWER...SWAP A 20B MOTOR..U CAN ORDER IT FROM JAPAN OR AUSTRALIA...20b motors produce 320hp stock! and can produce more over 400 if tuned right...("an NA 20B" or a turbo 20B) with this motor tuned right, it can beat mustang, corvette, camaro! why? because 20b motors have "3 ROTORS"... believe it! as for the rear end.. buy an after market one or use a T2 rear end if want to swap to a turbo motor. also the T2 tranny is "IDEAL". do u all want yur turbo motors to last long? here's an advice: warm up the car 5 minutes, after driving idle the car for 5 minutes, then shut it off...turbo timer it! why? so u won't carbon lock yur turbo engine...same goes for piston turbo engines....baby the rx 7 for it is a perfect machine...thnks for the time reading and learning my advice..
A 3 rotor swap will cost a lot more than a V8 swap. Period. People that drive FCs are usually on a budget.
You can turbo a high compression motor just fine and make plenty of power. You just don't use as much boost to make the same power as a lower compression motor, and you have to use a higher octane fuel. Usually, you need to be a little more attentive to tuning.
87 N/A was 9.4:1 compression and made 146hp stock.
91 N/A was 9.7:1 compression and made 160hp stock.
87 TII was 8.5:1 compression and made 180hp stock.
91 TII was 8.7:1 (I believe) and made 200hp stock.
93 FD was 9.0:1 compression and made 255hp stock.
No, I did not have to look it up or Google it.
Turbo timers have nothing to do with preventing carbon lock. And carbon lock does not care if the motor is turbo or not. It has nothing to do with the oil flowing through the turbo.
Please keep your advice to yourself.
but ive been told if u turbo a N/A 13B it will blow the Apex seals to hell
I didn't and i'm making around 450whp. Weird I guess.
And fact is you don't want to go over 15.0 comp on a rotary that's N/A to turbo. So S4 is the only way to go for N/A and turbocharge it. S5 comp plus the ratio of the turbo would end the motor into the 17's on 9PSI. So on an S5 you can only run around 5PSI, which isn't worth the money.
I can asure you if your on a budget get the Atkins 9" Superchager made for STOCK FC n/a's. you will be running around 187-196whp if the car is competely bne stock. Costs the same as turboing the N/A and believe it or not you'll get better power. Throw a fuel system and larger secondaries and you will get good gains.
If that's not a choice for you bridgeport and put a TurboII transmission in. TurboII transmissions are good for 550whp at stock form.
Or T2 swap.
Thoose are reasonable choices that I have run across.
Oh. and another new one is getting expensive seals(ceramic) and putting renesis rotors(10. compression) with a nice sized streetport. Around the same cost and would still make you N/A but running the same hp has the above, besides the bridgeport.
Last edited by Bridged; 01-20-2007 at 02:10 PM. Reason: more info
yes it will blow yur apex seals quicker if u turbo yur s5 rx-7. listen to "BRIDGED" he really got nice advice on the set up. as for "DAVID88VERT" dude, 3rotors are way better than a v8...if u have connections it will be alot easier and cheaper..but putting a V8 on an rx-7 is really ridiculous..."PLSS TRUST ME"...if david88vert want to put a v8 on an rx7, then why dont he just get a mustang or cobra...the rotary's are made with the rx7 for a reason....."TOTAL BALANCE" and, compare a v8 300hp to 20B 300+hp (with a lighter car) who would bite the dust? exactly...sooo DAVID88VERT, i'm sorry, ur the one who keep yur advice to yur self with yur V8...go get yur self a nice muscle car with the V8 and have fun biting the dusts! :P
see,i wanted a supercharger to begin with,being that its auto id get better gain out of a super than turbo..
Have you ever driven a 3 rotor car? I sincerely doubt it. I have. I've also driven V8 swapped FCs. Have you?
I have had rotarys for my DD for the last decade, and I do own a Mustang, as well as my FD. My FD will stay rotor-powered also.
I love 3 rotors, but the cost is not practical for most FC owners. You will not be able to buy a 3 rotor and get it in a FC for under $5K period - even if you can fab up almost everything yourself. You can easily do a nice 302 or 350 for $5K. Doesn't make it the right swap though. Just cheaper.
I have more connections that 90% of rotorheads, and it still isn't cheap as a V8 swap; however, I am not condoning a V8 swap. I don't like them (personal preference), and prefer rotarys. If you want a V8, it is definately cheaper to buy a Mustang, Camaro, etc.
As for which is faster, it all depends on how you set up the car. Come to the track (Road Atlanta, or Barber - your choice), and I'll run you with either car.
I'm not saying to put a V8 in a FC, just that it is a lot cheaper than a 3 rotor for the same hp output.
You would be best to leave that car alone, do an exhaust, and a small nitrous shot on it. It's going to get expensive building it up. Get a TII and be done with it. Keep this one as a clean DD.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
