So I guess you should get this moved to forced induction instead of all-motor.
So I guess you should get this moved to forced induction instead of all-motor.
Land Rover LR3 HSE
yeah i know but it originally started as a quest to find info on builing my 23 all motor. And it seemed pretty good until i said 13:1 compression and everyone flaked and said its no point in doing. See i have a prelude cause i don't like following the band wagon and getting a little civic or something, but i also want to go further away from the norm by sticking with the h23 intsead of "H22VTEC". Vtec ain't all that to me. All i want to do is really build the shit out of my 23 so i can stomp mudholes in h22 all day.
Originally Posted by dakilla4ever
Dawg!! Boost the 23 and be done with it!!
but dude...V-tec is JDM TyTe.....
You know better; next time will be a ban.
so you can stomp mudholes in stock h22a's all day maybe... you will have to spend twice as much on a H23 as you would a H22A to get the same results.
Land Rover LR3 HSE
yeah i mean, why bother with any stock motor, just slap a h22 in it and you'll be good. you'll be like every single other person out there, but you have almighty vtec.
Some people wanna be different, and a bit more original then swapping a h22. and more power to them. If you start off already owning the h23 motor, power/cost ratio would favor building the h23 then swapping the h22. Allbeit the h22 may have a higher potential, in all actuallity who is gonna build it to the fullest potential? Spending 2500-3000 on a h23 would walk any h22 with boltons everyday. power/cost.
cough*boost*cough lol
yea if part of that 2500-3000 is a VTEC head..... you will have to spend way more than 2500-3000 if you plan to boost and have some real results... to start with, sleeving a h23 block will run about $1000, then you will need another $1000 worth of pistons, rods, and bearings. then $250 on a better oil pump, then another $1500 just to have someone do the work... thats already well over $3000 right there, and you havent even got to the turbo. sure you could turbo the stock engine... if you like your shit blowing up in the middle of nowhere. With a stock engine and basic bolt on turbo kit, you will be lucky to get 240-250whp... my H22A SiR S-Spec engine with intake and a catback made over 200whp. that was without opening it up or doing any work. No header, race cat, or reprogramming of any kind. I payed $3200 for it (with tranny) and it was very reliable and never gave me any problems.
I say you stay all motor and swap a jdm H22A type S head on it, throw in some pistons and rods, and get a programmable fuel system. That will probably put you well over the 200whp mark and it would not give you any of the problems you get with a really modified car... just my $.02
Last edited by allmotoronly; 09-28-2006 at 04:55 PM.
Land Rover LR3 HSE
He has a point, your failing to realize dakilla wants to be different!!
Nah, I wasn't saying boost it. I was saying for the price of buying a h22 + some installation, you could mildly build the h23 and it would be more powerful then the stock h22 for less money. power/cost. thats what i was getting at. I said nothing about boost until the end, just hinting at its the best way to go. Don't get me wrong, the h22 has GREAT potential, but I mean if you wanna be different its a way.
as for this. All I have to say is grow up. No one forced you to go, I offered you to come hang out with some cb7s. "real bad", meaning you got a car on me from a 36mph roll? plus i garuantee i have compression leaks and blowby. I don't really care but don't exaggerate, you beat me, I'm a big boy i can handle it, you should learn to do the same. the races were just for fun. dont take everything so seriously. Mostly we don't care about street racing that much, we hang out and talk, sorry if you misinterpreted what we do. As for bjaccord, you only saw 5psi and a blown clutch. lol. i don't think we really care about going out and racing, its not like you were racing for money anyways.Sorry dude, but its not that cool. Since I came solo to your meet I need u to bring your "crew" to bp friday and sat. I promise you will see some good runs. O yea tell bjaccord "onewreckedrex wants to race,and boostedsvt!!. They said bring your shit. Since I pulled 92ex real bad his buddy with a white 2door cb7 boosted 9lbs wants to pic on me. Stock h22 vs dual cam motor(maybe h23), t3/t4, log manifold, delta cams, dsm 450 and whatever else. HELLO DUMBASS Im not going to race u!! I have a fukin stock h22Pussy ass dude wouldnt even let me see under the hood, but everyone saw what I had!! Like I said plz bring your crew to bp! I got people wanting race u bjaccord!! Must stand for blowjob!
Whatever guy! In Kennesaw u talking big sayin u would race any day of the week against me!! U remember! So I challenged u! DUH!, your supposed to be wasting me from any roll! dont be mad, it was a car and half up to at least 80 90mph before I let off. We are supposed to be posting this in kills! btw i didnt even race bjaccord, but i have peeps who do
ITs not about money geek its about pride IMO! btw IM grown!!
Whatever guy! In Kennesaw u talking big sayin u would race any day of the week against me!! U remember! So I challenged u! DUH!
Didn't race me??????
Maybe I blanked out for 10 mins
And who are your "Peeps who do
Are they racing me now?
As I type?
Oh shit!!! I'm racing!!!!
I remember something slightly different.
You got a little jump on me, and with a slipping clutch I still pulled on you.
Don't deny the painfully obvious truth.
I'm not here to argue anyway, you beat 92ex, I beat you, so what...
We all have cb7's that are modded, 92ex and I took a different rout than you, get over it.
You were invited to hang out with us (Fellow cb7 owners) and that was all
Personaly I'd invite you out again if your attitude changed, otherwise you just don't fit in with the group.
We just hang out and chat, nothing more, nothing less.
Your the first person that I ever truly raced on the street (And most likely the last going on the little bitchfest that you've started) and I happened to beat you.
Anyway, back on subject....
(Sorry for posting useless non-sense in this thread, continue on)
Didn't race me??????
Maybe I blanked out for 10 mins
And who are your "Peeps who do
Are they racing me now?
As I type?
Oh shit!!! I'm racing!!!!
I remember something slightly different.
You got a little jump on me, and with a slipping clutch I still pulled on you.
Don't deny the painfully obvious truth.
I'm not here to argue anyway, you beat 92ex, I beat you, so what...
We all have cb7's that are modded, 92ex and I took a different rout than you, get over it.
You were invited to hang out with us (Fellow cb7 owners) and that was all
Personaly I'd invite you out again if your attitude changed, otherwise you just don't fit in with the group.
We just hang out and chat, nothing more, nothing less.
Your the first person that I ever truly raced on the street (And most likely the last going on the little bitchfest that you've started) and I happened to beat you.
Anyway, back on subject....
(Sorry for posting useless non-sense in this thread, continue on)
Yeah stop posting dumbass bullshit! I let off as soon as u took off idiot! Thats why u went out by whatever cars u think u fuckin geek! stfo IA!! Believe me I know I dont fit in the GEEK SQUAD, bring your cakeass to BP!! Try to fit in there!! Everyone told me also that its real fuckin lame there anywayz! Rob is the only one I would hang out with! As for the rest of u cakerboys... I dont really know!!
if you want to spend $1000's. there have been stock H22's making between 180-200whp in its stock form...
H23's will take alot of money to gain that much....NA is hard to gain 20+whp without spending $1000's....
but if you really want to then go for it... best hp to $$ would be to modify an already good flowing head like a H22 head.
anything can make power, its just how much money do you want to spend to get there...and is it really worth the cost of "being different"
94 Supra= 500rwhp
LOL!!
???
You know better; next time will be a ban.
bjaccord, bring your shit!!
o.....k......So back to the subject. Would H22 pistons fit in my h23. I was thinking about putting the JE 11.5:1 H22 pistons in my 23, but i don't know if they would work. I found out that the cr would drop to about 11:1 thats fine by me. Its better than 9.8. But don't know if it will work need info/opinions/help.
I forgot what the hell was going on with all this BS in the air! Dakilla are u trying to boost or na? Ive never heard of 22pistons in 23! Go with the jE
h22 wouldn't work, you would need to have the rosd redone since h23 wont fit the h22 pistons. If your planning on boosting later down the road, don't up the compression
1) All motor wise, do what Bee aka 93h22aCX said, GET AN H22 HEAD.
2) The h23 IMO is one of the SHITTIEST motors honda ever made. They blow headgaskets, spin rod bearings, and they are OLD. Its like doing an LSVTEC. AN h23 bottom end was NEVER designed to go to 8000rpms, so what push it there? Doing an H23VTEC gives you the VTEC power, but if you cant rev it out reliably, WHATS THE POINT?
Personally, i would Purchase an H22 longblock from a JDM importer. Or look for one USED in GOOD SHAPE. i have bought FULL 98-00 H22 LONGBLOCKS for as cheap as $650. The h22 was designed to rev high, its got VTEC, there are TONS of upgrades availabie for it from rods, pistons, cams, intake manifolds, ETC. why be DIFFERENT, when you can make power so easily. why reinvent the wheel?
We have dynoed STOCK h22s that make 175whp. Stock header, stock intake, stock cams. I have never heard of ANY h23 making over 155whp STOCK.
AccordM3 has a MILDLY built h22 making 227whp. He has Type-S pistons, Skunk2 Stage2 cams an valvetrain, EuroR manifold, Eagle rods. thats it.
Goinfasterthanu has a STOCK Internals H22, with a DC header and an intake an exhaust that put down 193whp. STOCK CAMS, STOCK INTAKE MANIFOLD, STOCK BOTTOM END.
An h23, i wouldnt do shit to it, i woudlnt even boost it. not worth the money on such a crap ass motor LOL, sorry bee.
So, in closing, STAY ON TOPIC, if i read one more fucking time about the CB7 guys vs O-BOMB im banning people.
To the guy that posted this, get an H22 if you REALLY want to stay all motor. youll thank me an bee in the end
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
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exactly what I said. maybe he will believe you Mr. 2jzkidd
Land Rover LR3 HSE
BTW i was agreeing with yuo too LOL
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
AMEN!
MIKE OWNZ...listen to him and all of his MASIIVE HONDA KNOWLEDGE....
You know better; next time will be a ban.
or even better then the almighty h22....f23 bottom end(upgrade bearings), and a h22 head. Grab some 11:1 pistons, and h22s got nothing
What abour R/S ratio? what about piston sideload?
so you want to rev a 2.3l Bottom end to 9000rpms?
The powerband of an NA motor is going to be high revving from a 4 cylinder, PERIOD. so you could try an be different, and use .1l of displacement more thinking its going to make GOBS MORE HORSEPOWER, when in reality, its not.
So insteand of building a shitty motor like the H23/F23, you could just buy an H22, an slap cams in it and make more power.
The amount of money it will cost you to build an F23/H22 hybrid negates the whole purpose. Maybe if you were building a purpose built race motor, that lasted 5-10 passes. But for the STREET, H22 with cams> any other H or F series motor, PERIOD.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
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why would you waste your money on that? after you paid for all new bearings, a set of pistons, a set of rods (F23 are no where rated for 8k rpm), a shitload of fabbing to get the H22A head to bolt up correctly, custom timing belt, and who knows what else you could have bought 2 H22A's
Land Rover LR3 HSE
agreed!
last time I checked, the H22A timing belt is too long for a h22a head/F23 bottom end, and the F23 is of course too short. The oil passages between the block and head are different sizes and do not all line up.
Yea, oem timing belts are definantly custom.
And yea those oem or arp h22 headstuds are rediculously hard to find these days.
Anyway, to each there own. Yes the h22 has more easy potential, but if your building something (Not just swapping pistons, and maybe rods) I mean building something stout, why not take the extra displacement?
For your average build I agree, the h22, n/a, boost, nitrous whatever will satisfy most on the board.
L8r
if displacement is the only reason you suggested the f23, there are a few stroker kits for the H22A. I mean hell, you said building something stout... having a H22A block sleeved will run you about $900, a stroker kit will run about $2000, and will up displacement to 2.4L on most kits, and 2.5L on one (I cant remember which). Then you could spend another $1200 on the valvetrain, $500 on IM/TB, about $700 on injectors and hondata, $300 on an upgraded oil pump or oil pump gear, a $400 header and you will be set. thats about $5500... plus about $500 worth of gaskets and bearings and shit I forgot to add, and you will have an engine with more displacement than the F23, and cost way less than doing all that shit to a F23 bottom end (sleeving, rods, pistons, etc) since those parts are not as readily avaliable and more costly.
yea it would be cool but it would be a waste of time and money to do all that shit. The difference between 2.2L and 2.3L does not justify the price difference between F23 parts and H22A parts... its only 100cc's larger
heres a link to a thread where a guy swapped a h22 head onto a f23 bottom end... it was a pain in the ass and he had to close up a few cooling holes in the head. It is turbo and still only made 214whp.
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1069869&page=1
Land Rover LR3 HSE
Well, I'm not here to argue, I guess if you feel that the g23 motor is just so difficult then we simply have different levels of mechanical capabilities and knowledge I guess.
I am actually not really a fan of them (The 2.3 vtec combo's) Not in my car atleast. They do seem to have more problems, but I have seen some great results from them as well. Aside from your example there have been a few (That I know of, so odds are there are more) that have went over 300whp with stock internals.
I'm not defending them, or trying to talk people into them, just looking at both sides of the topic.
I already have a boosted h23 in my car, and it's doing very well, I don't over rev it at all and it's been taking 8 psi for years, and is tuned to 10 for at the track (And at 10 aproaching the 300whp mark) and 100% stock (It even took a 25psi spike the other day when the bolt backed out of the boost/vacuum reference port on the wastegate)
Anyway, I'm working on building another block right now to use in the future and have been trying to source an h22 crank to use to essentialy build me an h22 with an h23 block code on the outside.
If this guy wanted to do the same, with a built motor for n/a it would be the same, use his h23 block (Identical in every way to the h22 block), get the h22 crank, buy your aftermarket rods and pistons (For the h22, and at h22 prices) and have him a built h22 bottom end, then it would be up to him on what head to use (Obviously if he's going n/a the ONLY choice is the h22/f20b heads if he wants to make good power.
He wouldn't have to go through the original purchase price of an h22 (Lets just say 1000 on average) and put that cash towards a built n/a motor.
Just my thoughts I guess, it's all up to him (Thread starter) in the end, take in all this advice and make his own decision.
Mainstream has impressed me with there shop, and Scotts tuning, and all the info they have posted here (Other than the h23 bashing, hurt my feelings a little bitj/k) so I would check them out for the build and tuning.
L8r all
my mechanical capabilities huh.... my mechanical capabilities are fine... if anyone has a problem with capabilities, it is the person who thinks spending $5000 on a "G"23 is better than spending $1500 on a H22A longblock. that shit is unreliable except for a very very few cases. You have a bunch of people here who really know what they are talking about and know how its done. Obviously the guy doesn't have a huge budget or else he wouldnt be asking questions, he would pay someone else to figure it out. The cheapest and most realiable thing to do is to get a H22A longblock. I got one from south FLA performance once for $1500 for the longblock. They will sleeve it for an additional $900. add some low compression pistons, rods, and bearings while you are at it and you are still under $3500. throw in some better valve springs and bolt your turbo kit up and you can expect well over 350whp (with a programmable ECU of course). If you want to keep it simple, just swap in the H22A and add a few bolt-ons, maybe some type S cams and a Euro-R IM and there you can easily see 195+whp. It will get 23mpg and will not leave you sitting on the side of the road.
The guy already has a H23... If he is hell bent on boosting it, then he should just get a bolt on turbo kit. If he is looking for big numbers, then he is going to have to step it up and spend some money. The H23 was not meant to rev as high as the H22A. The F23 bottom end was definitely not made to rev that high. it has weak rods that are not as wide as H22/23 rods... It cant handle as much boost.
Save your money.
Land Rover LR3 HSE
while i have no problem with H23s , boosted
all motor wise, if hes asking this question, then hes prob not going to do the work himself.
an h22 runs $1000
With a $1000 you could barely buy the H22 CRANK, Mahle PIstons an Eagle rods. Then you would still need bearings and assemble it himself. That leaves no money for machine work if its needed, an still a H23 head. he would have to pull the motor an dissasemble it to put the h22 crank in the h23 block. its definetly not for a novice mechanic.
A stock H22 swap from us would run you under $2000 (longblock only)
I dont think he can built an H23 for anwhere near that price. even if he did the work himself.
The power vs cost still favors the h22 longblock swap IMO
IMHO the h22 is better as far as parts availability, reliability when it comes to making NA POWER.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
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oh but i respect your views, sorry to bash your motor
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Sorry been busy all weekend. Ok here is what i have.
H23-completely stock block and head is h23 original no f23 parts at all
Msd Sci-ignition, wires, distributor cap, blaster ss coil
Ebay cold air Intake
DC Sports 4-2-1 Header
Magnaflow high-flow cat
Custom 2.25 exhaust
Nuespeed short shifter
With this setup i beat a base model Rsx last night. I mainly started cause yes of course im on a budget, but the main reason is to make affordable power with my h23. Whether its boost or n/a, I don't care. All i want is at the very least 250 whp, reliable daily-driver/ hell driven weekend warrior. Building just to have fun. Hope this clears things up. If anyone has any ideas after reading this. Plz inform me without bashing my motor/my car. You may think its a piece of shit but in the end its MY piece of shit. And i ripped plenty of ass holes with it.
^^ go boosted man... n/a 250whp won't be cheap.
250whp N/A would cost you twice as much as it would to turbo it.... just buy a basic bolt on kit. you can get a Drag kit for less than $3000.
Land Rover LR3 HSE
lol, you know nothing about putting together a g23 vtec then. there no where near as hard as your trying to make it out. and at 8.4:1 compression, they make the same power as h22s...
So you would rather build some hybrid combo that would require you to do ALOT MORE WORK than just buying an already assembled, ready to run motor?
plus, the F23 cant rev past 6500 reliably, period, so why even try to make it a 8000rpm motor? if you start buying F23 rods, then that gets expensive as i only think Road Race Engineering sells those rods, and they are EXPENSIVE. $800 a set IIRC
H22 still wins.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
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+1
H22 still wins.
Land Rover LR3 HSE
(directed at 92ex)
whatever man... did you not read any of my posts??? that shit is unreliable. I looked all over and found one that had made to to 20k miles... and its a F23 bottom end with a h23 non-vtec head. None with the H22A head last. partly because you have to block off 4 coolant passages, which eventually leads to warpage. Give it up. He has a H23, he wants to keep it a h23A... i guess you cant read what the guy who started this thread said. he wants to know how to get more power from his H23A not how to swap a F23 bottom end into it, which has shitty rods that are narrower and the hole on the crank shaft end is a lot smaller than the H22/23 rods.
what the hell makes you think a "G23" with a stock h22a head and no mods will beat a stock H22A in HP? the ones I have seen make 160whp at the most with some bolt on-s. Hell even the turbo one only made 212whp. My jdm SiR S-Spec H22A made 204whp stock with intake and a catback. So after all that shit, the guy with the turbo "G23" only made 8 more hp than me. The ones with 270-300whp are built. This guy does not want to spend that much money, and especially on something that is not going to last 15k miles and eat a rod bearing.
it seems you are the one who knows nothing of the "G23"
BTW, quit calling it a G series... Honda already has one. Its the G25 found in the 2.5TL.
The F23 bottom end/ H22A top end combination is a waste of time and money. Why not just buy a jdm H23 VTEC? you can get one for about $2300. Thats what it would cost you to build a "G23" that would last.
Land Rover LR3 HSE
Agreed!! listen to the man! DAMN!!
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