h22 build ,lots of pictures

[justnprsh07]

Im guessing it will take stroking it to 2.5 plus big bore and a nasty head setup but if that's what it takes then that's what it takes

[chunky]

The quench area has been cut off lol yes they are mahle. I do still have that set of 88mm wiesco pistons thats whats going in my motor since i have stock sleeves. I also picked up another sleeved block so we might build him another bottom end just to have laying around. I just hate buying 800.00 dollar rods . I heard that the rod bolts were the weak link in the f23 stock rods . I mean you realy dont need rods for na unless your turning the motor 9,000 rpms. After looking the rod bolts in the f23 rods and the f20b rods are identical and i beat the hell out of several f20b turning them to 9,000 no problems so maybe stock rods would be fine. I need to just build a budget h22 ,f23 botom end with stock shit turn the piss out of it and see what happens . I mean whats the worse that can happen you mess up a 150 dollar block and a 100 dollar ctrank and rods who cares. I can get 13.1 compression on stock h22 pistons on f23 rods and crank with a little cutting . I mean i could build a 13.1 compression 97mm stroke stock bottom end that would be nasty maybe ill do it.

I def. just spent a pretty penny on custom rods for my upcoming build. I am revving to 10k though, so I need something better than the average aftermarket rod & bolt.

Most of the time, it's the rod bolts that fail, not the rod itself. Part of that is because people don't life cycle them properly. They need to be replaced every so often on high revving motors. It's just a fact of life.

[justnprsh07]

I def. just spent a pretty penny on custom rods for my upcoming build. I am revving to 10k though, so I need something better than the average aftermarket rod & bolt.

Most of the time, it's the rod bolts that fail, not the rod itself. Part of that is because people don't life cycle them properly. They need to be replaced every so often on high revving motors. It's just a fact of life.

This is very true that's why I recomend to over build it the first time so you will be saticfied without halfting to push it to hard

[h22 jones]

It doesnt work like that man. Scottie says 13.1 is the limit on pump gas .maybe more on e85 9 ihave heard because e85 takes twice the injector meaning its thick or how ever you would say it that alot of builders make more power on 93 because the more fuel going through the intake the less air but that would change on every motor and just something to think about)but that doesnt mean you make more power . I have seen motors with more compression make less power. Here is the deal the more compression the less timing you can run before it detnates so there has to be a happy medium . I mean you need compression to make power but to much compression will cost you power lol yea sounds stupid i know. To start off with you need to figure out which cam your going to run that means everything .Your cam is what decides your compression and how to build your motor . Everybody builds there motor then picks out a cam thats wrong period. If your cam bleeds off cranking pressure (like the pro2s do) then you can run more compression and keep your timing . I checked my compression it 260 per cylinder . After geting it tunned and adjusting the cam gears its like 210 per cylinder because the cams are bleeding off cranking pressure . Everybody i know judges the power of there motor by checking there compression lol and that has nothing to do with it .All you want is to make sure there all around ten pounds from each other . If none of this makes since to you then you know why everybody is not running around with 250-300 hp na setups because its just not that easy. I been trying to tell people you cant just bolt on better parts and make more power .With na everything has to work together and you are looking for 5 extra hp not 50-100 by turning up the boost lol sometimes its a pain in the ass. If the head is to big you lose power ,to small you dont make power ,and the head could be perfect but intake is to big and the air dont stack right lol its alot of shit but justin if you want a 300hp street king dd im sure we can do it. I plan on mine being around that and it will be driven on the streets alot. If i called rzl and told them my exact measurements ,cams ,and intake and said cnc me a perfect head for my motor and then i orderd pro3s and installed them on my motor thats making 252hp. I might make 15 more hp for 3,0000 dollars or my head that my dad did might be perfect for my motor and the pro 3s to big so i might lose 15 hp or make around the same thing you just never know . If your exhaust is to small or tb to small then there is a restriction so it all matters. So for who ever said dang mike dont get on here and tell everybody everything you know lol i couldnt if i wanted to. I can tell you simple 230-240 hp h series set ups after that your shit better be right because 5 hp is hard to find.

[chunky]

The weight of the chassis also has an effect on the max compression you can run. A big heavy chassis is not going to like a lot of compression b/c it will knock like crazy at low RPM due to the inherently higher load on the motor.

As long as you are not running into auto-ignition issues, the limiting factor regarding compression is typically related to how much you can retard the ignition in the low RPM range. If you have a distributor based ignition system, then you are very limited on how much timing you can pull in the low RPM range. If you have distributorless ignition, you can pull a lot more timing down low and safely run a lot more compression. On my k-series motor, which has distributorless ignition, 12.5:1 compression is no problem at all to daily drive on 93 octane. I can even run 91 octane if I'm on a road trip and 93 isn't available. It's much more difficult to get that kind of driveability when you are limited by a distributor based ignition system.

The auto-ignition threshold of 93 octane depends on a lot of things. The cams you use definitely have an impact. What matters most is the primary lobes. Whenever you do a compression test, you are seeing a number based on the primary lobes. If you were to do a compression test on the VTEC lobes, your compression numbers would go way way down. If your primary lobes have really short duration, you can start to run into auto-ignition issues with less than 12:1 compression. However, most Honda cams have enough duration on the primary lobes to permit a fairly high compression ratio without auto-ignition.

The most important thing I should mention is that more compression is not necessarily better for every build. If you're only going to rev to 8000rpm, there is pretty much zero reason to run anything higher than 12:1. High compression ratios are necessary for high revving motors b/c compression ratio increases the speed of the burn. It is also necessary for high octane fuels because they are harder to ignite. Without getting into the chemistry/physics of it, compressing the air/fuel mix reduces the activation energy required to ignite the air/fuel. That creates a faster burn which is necessary at high rpm b/c there is less time between engine cycles for the fuel to burn. Ie. if the fuel isn't burning fast enough and expanding quickly enough, the piston basically starts to outrun the flame. This is why motors can't continue making power as they rev higher and higher.

Anyhow, there's a lot that goes into it that could take hours to explain, but suffice it to say there is no clear answer for what the max compression you can run on the street is. :p

[justnprsh07]

It doesnt work like that man. Scottie says 13.1 is the limit on pump gas .maybe more on e85 9 ihave heard because e85 takes twice the injector meaning its thick or how ever you would say it that alot of builders make more power on 93 because the more fuel going through the intake the less air but that would change on every motor and just something to think about)but that doesnt mean you make more power . I have seen motors with more compression make less power. Here is the deal the more compression the less timing you can run before it detnates so there has to be a happy medium . I mean you need compression to make power but to much compression will cost you power lol yea sounds stupid i know. To start off with you need to figure out which cam your going to run that means everything .Your cam is what decides your compression and how to build your motor . Everybody builds there motor then picks out a cam thats wrong period. If your cam bleeds off cranking pressure (like the pro2s do) then you can run more compression and keep your timing . I checked my compression it 260 per cylinder . After geting it tunned and adjusting the cam gears its like 210 per cylinder because the cams are bleeding off cranking pressure . Everybody i know judges the power of there motor by checking there compression lol and that has nothing to do with it .All you want is to make sure there all around ten pounds from each other . If none of this makes since to you then you know why everybody is not running around with 250-300 hp na setups because its just not that easy. I been trying to tell people you cant just bolt on better parts and make more power .With na everything has to work together and you are looking for 5 extra hp not 50-100 by turning up the boost lol sometimes its a pain in the ass. If the head is to big you lose power ,to small you dont make power ,and the head could be perfect but intake is to big and the air dont stack right lol its alot of shit but justin if you want a 300hp street king dd im sure we can do it. I plan on mine being around that and it will be driven on the streets alot. If i called rzl and told them my exact measurements ,cams ,and intake and said cnc me a perfect head for my motor and then i orderd pro3s and installed them on my motor thats making 252hp. I might make 15 more hp for 3,0000 dollars or my head that my dad did might be perfect for my motor and the pro 3s to big so i might lose 15 hp or make around the same thing you just never know . If your exhaust is to small or tb to small then there is a restriction so it all matters. So for who ever said dang mike dont get on here and tell everybody everything you know lol i couldnt if i wanted to. I can tell you simple 230-240 hp h series set ups after that your shit better be right because 5 hp is hard to find.

This is why I've been trying to find out wwhat it takes... or I would love to find someone that had a 300plus na setup complete car bc I would prob trade... I had a guy on ht that had a f22 that made close to 400 but it was 16:1 comp aluminum rods setup with roller rockers and custom cams but that seemed a little to extreme. I like to drive my shot more than I work on it

[h22 jones]

Im glad you explained that a little better then i did. Its hard enough to understand yourself more or less explain to somebody else lol. I think they get the general idea now and see t isnt just as easy as bolting parts together. If you have ever wondered why a 300hp na car gets twice the attention as say a 400-500 hp turbo car now you because its a pain in the ass to do lol. Im sure when you get to the 600 and up hpp turbo cars it takes alot more then bolting parts together also. I run crower rods which is a higher end rod and ive never had problem but when reveeing to were chunky wants to rev aluminum rods is a must and they must be cycled

[justnprsh07]

Im glad you explained that a little better then i did. Its hard enough to understand yourself more or less explain to somebody else lol. I think they get the general idea now and see t isnt just as easy as bolting parts together. If you have ever wondered why a 300hp na car gets twice the attention as say a 400-500 hp turbo car now you because its a pain in the ass to do lol. Im sure when you get to the 600 and up hpp turbo cars it takes alot more then bolting parts together also. I run crower rods which is a higher end rod and ive never had problem but when reveeing to were chunky wants to rev aluminum rods is a must and they must be cycled

This is true and you will half to have it balanced to like a tenth of a pound at 10k if you want it to stay together for a while and it has took me several setups to get where I'm at for a turbo car and truthfully I'm bored with it and want to go na

[h22 jones]

sell me my intake back then lol. After doing alot of research id realy like to try one of those intakes na . I think it would produce good hp. Atleast go out and bust a ten second pass so i can ad that motor to my ten second build list lmao. On a serious note how is it holding up ?

[justnprsh07]

Great its hanging in there and im gonna get low into the tens before I go na

[1badgvr4]

I love hearing about this type of stuff. I love na builds because you can always tell who's done there homework because there car makes the power. I hate hearing people say there car "runs hard" but they have no tune and built there motor in there backyard.Real engine building FTW. SN: Jones it takes alot more than you think to keep a 500-600 hp turbo car together.

[h22 jones]

I agree when you get to 550 plus it takes alot to keep it together . As for less then 550hp ive seen to many people through bull shit together and run for years. Ive seen ebay kits make 450hp and stay together. Im not nocking turbo shit hell i dont want to even get into that debate again . All im saying is it is alot harder to get power na and takes alot more knowledge as for the motor staying to gether thats up who builds it and who tuns it .

[1badgvr4]

What you are saying is correct and thats why if I were to showcase my skills and build an engine it would be all motor. When I mean turbo cars are hard to handle I just mean turbo cars stress everything thing else in the drivetrain alot harder than an all motor car would. To each his own tho and this build is great.

[schia89]

I love hearing about this type of stuff. I love na builds because you can always tell who's done there homework because there car makes the power. I hate hearing people say there car "runs hard" but they have no tune and built there motor in there backyard.Real engine building FTW. SN: Jones it takes alot more than you think to keep a 500-600 hp turbo car together.

Lol is this a personal shot at someone???!

[schia89]

What you are saying is correct and thats why if I were to showcase my skills and build an engine it would be all motor. When I mean turbo cars are hard to handle I just mean turbo cars stress everything thing else in the drivetrain alot harder than an all motor car would. To each his own tho and this build is great.

I'd love to see you showcase your skills

[chunky]

What you are saying is correct and thats why if I were to showcase my skills and build an engine it would be all motor. When I mean turbo cars are hard to handle I just mean turbo cars stress everything thing else in the drivetrain alot harder than an all motor car would. To each his own tho and this build is great.

It's much easier for an N/A builder to make the transition to building turbo motors than it is for a turbo builder to make the transition to building N/A motors. N/A builders have to learn all the little things that turbo builders can typically get away without doing.

As far as stress goes, that's related to HP and RPM. Turbo motors can typically make power w/o revs, so they have a slight advantage there, but turbo motors also have a lot more parts that can potentially fail. In the end, reliability always comes down to the quality of the parts and how well the motor was put together.

[jerseyef9]

What you are saying is correct and thats why if I were to showcase my skills and build an engine it would be all motor. When I mean turbo cars are hard to handle I just mean turbo cars stress everything thing else in the drivetrain alot harder than an all motor car would. To each his own tho and this build is great.

it funny i havent seen u build any cars all your cars haven bought

im just stating the facts i be more than happy to see u build a car key work (YOU BUILD)
very good info mike that you sharing

[EmminoDaGreat]

I like building all motor motors, simply because there are little tweaks you can do to make more power, you can do the same with turbo motors, but as long as all the parts are good and you got the gist of it you can make the power..

[h22 jones]

Ive bought tones of books and i have countless hours reading the internet trying to learn as much as i can about motors to be able to accomplish what i would like to. If i post something on here its not to act like i know everything (because i dont know half of what i would like to ) its to try and make it easier for the other guys that dont know so much. I dont make my living off buildning hondas as jj spec or mainstream does so i could care less about having a name for myself or realy what anybody thought about me . If i tell you something or post something you can be sure im only trying to help somebody build a fast car on as cheap as i know how because none of have 20,000 dollars that we want (I said want , im sure plenty have money but i know i dont want to drop 20,000 in a honda) to put into a honda . If i had unlimited funds i would build a k series rather it b all motor or na period. If i say something thats wrong or you feel like you have a better idea post it up hell i learn new shit everyday . I do ask that you dont post up shit that you have read because thats what gets half you guys in trouble in the first place beleiving everything you read. I cant stand for somebody that has never built a motor but has done alot research tell me im wrong about something because joe blow on honda tech said so . Thats just bull shit if you didnt put your hands on it and see for your self that what i said was wrong keep your mouth shut because your just going to look like a fool when all im trying to do is help somebody out simple as that. I bet atleast 30 people on here have found my number and texted me countless text about what ever they needed help with at what ever time of the day they needed it . I have answered every question that i could and helped who ever it was as much as i could with out knowing them at all or making one dollar thats just how i am. As many of my opions as i have posted up about gregg and mosley race i bett me and gregg have enough textes to wright a book and nobody is mad no matter what was said because thats racing and thats how you learn shit . If you get on here and act like you know everything you will never be any faster then you are right now i dont care if its me ,spoolin ,gregg, or mosely and chunky it takes knowledge to go faster so instead of everybody making smart comments and trying to be jack asses to each other why dont try to actually learn somthing to mkae your car faster isnt that what this forum is for ? I want name names but i had a guy on here pm me about somethings on this build that concernd him and if i hadnt run many motors with what was done that concernd him then i probably would have changed it. He didnt get on here and post a big thread about it acting like he knew more then i did like half you guys try to do to each other he just sent me a pm and i appreciate it because i put alot of time in these motors and like to see them last . By him asking them question and me assuring him that ive run this many times with no problems now he may feel a little better about doing the same thing in the future and i may take a little more precaution on doing what i did in the future.My point is we both may have learned something weither it was good or bad and it was went about the right way with out trying to make a ass out of somebody on the computer. All im saying guys is try to learn something from each other istead of thinking you got to prove something all the time. Half the people on here thinks i know my shit and i dont feel like i know near as much as i want to. I like to do everything hell im fixing to buy some machine tools for cranks and heads . I cant stand depending on anybody else to do anything . It never gets done how you yourself would like it to be so i want to do everything. If i could have found someone to put a decent paint job on my car (after three attempts) i wouldnt have ever learned how to paint you get my point .

[justnprsh07]

So true

[PawnShopCEO]

you're fighting a losing battle Mike. No matter how much you try to help people out you always have keyboard racers that think they know more. Thats why when we talk I always say... "now you know better than i do but this is what i read, so you tell me your opinion". Cause hell, I have never built a motor.

[Black4DrEK]

it funny i havent seen u build any cars all your cars haven bought

im just stating the facts i be more than happy to see u build a car key work (YOU BUILD)
very good info mike that you sharing

I dont think this your place to be talking...............



MIKE JONES..... You are a great guy for giving out all the info. Hell I would do the same. If I know something and the person needs help. I would do the same man! props go out to you.

[schia89]

Hey H22jones if what your saying is about what my comment said it wasn't pertaining to you or your ability to build motors. I've read through your whole h22 info thread n I think it's great info n I've even pmd you for advice.
It's directed to n only 1badvr4 (Dean) n his comments. He is supposedly my homeboy but I come out to find him bashing me to my friends n on the web. But I'll take this all to the kills forums with a CALLOUT DEAN!

Very great info H22Jones.

[h22 jones]

I realy wasnt directing anything at anybody just trying to make a point.

[jerseyef9]

I dont think this your place to be talking...............



MIKE JONES..... You are a great guy for giving out all the info. Hell I would do the same. If I know something and the person needs help. I would do the same man! props go out to you.

um i didnt ask for your two cents
i have reason for what i said so keep lil comments to yourself im not talking to you
all this interenet talkin you doing is pointless you cant say shit to ppl face aight
thank you have a good day

[Black4DrEK]

[h22 jones]

Almost done just going to degree the cams and in the car this baby goes

[Apex1972]

so many different options with H series shit. I still think I want an H23 blue top. I heard that the blue top adds like 20 whp. :P

[Apex1972]

Hey H22jones if what your saying is about what my comment said it wasn't pertaining to you or your ability to build motors. I've read through your whole h22 info thread n I think it's great info n I've even pmd you for advice.
It's directed to n only 1badvr4 (Dean) n his comments. He is supposedly my homeboy but I come out to find him bashing me to my friends n on the web. But I'll take this all to the kills forums with a CALLOUT DEAN!

Very great info H22Jones.

yep, Jones def. knows whats up with these motors.

[Chacal]

looking good sir !

[WalkS]

I love the cut head! Great idea!

[JDMDA_1.7]

I love the cut head! Great idea!

x2

[h22 jones]

Thanks that was my dads idea . I'm to busy to think about stuff like that. He just cut a piece of a bell housing so we can bolt a starter to the motor while it's on the engine stand to be able to spin motors over with out bolting up the whole tranny.

[justnprsh07]

nice... i know where my allmotor will be built

[ACCORDPRIDE]

all the info looks real good jus wish i mike would use some punctuation---- i have a headache from reading all those novels now hahahaha

[h22 jones]

Lol it is what it is lol.

[.:Stirfry:.]

nice stuff man!

[EmminoDaGreat]

lol mike tell him he's lazy turn the motor by hand!!

PS when it comes to H series, I don't think there is someone who has put so many different h combos together, or know as much as Mike and his father.

[ACCORDPRIDE]

cant argue with that assumption capt.

[h22 jones]

We love to mess with h22s. it only took me 15 years to get my dad into imports lol. he started restoring a old 48 chevy truck then i built him this car and he has not touched the truck since them. He just loves messing with his honda now after giving me strait crap about them in the past lol. he never beleived how fast they can be and still get great gas mileage. He used to say there is no way son my vette didnt run that with 375hp . I finaly got him to go to the track with me about ten years ago and he got realy interested so a couple years ago we built him one.