Latest "Ring" lap times (grabs popcorn)

[OnURleft]

You can still manually change gears in a gtr, just without the use of a 3rd pedal. I do not understand why the use of said 3rd pedal makes the difference between a true drivers car and a car that just drives itself. Driving a stick is not too much harder than an auto, yes it requires more skill, and yes the lap time would be lower, but not significantly lower. I do agree that the gtr prob does not go that fast around the ring, but to say that it's lack of a 3rd pedal allows it to drive itself is a bit excessive.

And if you were simply referring to the electronic driving aids in the gtr, porsche's offer much of the same in their cars as well...

I think your personal love/admiration for porsche has clouded your judgement on this topic.



............

The car is heavy, drives flat and is relatively easy to go fast in without much input from the driver. Hit its limit and it could bite you harder then you've ever been bit. The car is not a drivers tool, it's hard to boss around and twitchy as hell at the limit. It's just designed to be as fast as possible, then it breaks. A fast car, hell yes, a drivers car.... I don't think so. I could probably name 10 cars in the same price range or 1/2 the price that aren't as fast but subjectively are a hell of a lot more fun.


To the O.P and whoever may be basing how fast a car is on the list... Don't.... It's an awesome reference but it's just as unreliable as claiming my stock S2000 is stronger then yours because it made 10 more whp at said dyno. Weather, humidity, the trans, the DRIVER, whether or not the car was really stock and a host of other factors really skew the times. Little things like Dot 4 or 5 brake fluid could make or break a time on Green Hell.

[RL...]

The car is heavy, drives flat and is relatively easy to go fast in without much input from the driver.

That can be said of most cars on this list, all those cars are pretty fast and it's easy as putting the tranny into 1st gear/drive and pressing the gas. That's not hard to do in any of those cars. Don't act like shifting requires some special skill that 1% of ppl can perform.

Hit its limit and it could bite you harder then you've ever been bit.

Could be said of ANY car...

The car is not a drivers tool, it's hard to boss around and twitchy as hell at the limit. It's just designed to be as fast as possible, then it breaks. A fast car, hell yes, a drivers car I don't think so.

I've read expert reviews saying it's very manageable to drive, even at its limit...that british guy in top gear even said in one episode that he didn't think it was worth the price of 2 evo's, before he drove it. But after driving it he was blown away and said it really was worth the price of 2 evos...

Also, the car was named automobile of the year by several magazines....if cars in the same price range/cheaper cars are just as much fun wouldn't they have been picked?

Just saying...

[Master Shake]

that british guy in top gear even said in one episode that he didn't think it was worth the price of 2 evo's, before he drove it. But after driving it he was blown away and said it really was worth the price of 2 evos...

Also, the car was named automobile of the year by several magazines....if cars in the same price range/cheaper cars are just as much fun wouldn't they have been picked?

that first part is straight opinion based. it doesn't mean shit. i mean, you can't take someone's word on how YOU would like something. you gonna take my word on that i have the world's fastest street legal civic? and its the most mother fuckin fun you could ever have while driving a fwd car? yea, i wouldn't advise it.

the 2nd part. yea, those are opinion based, as well. me, personally. for the price of the GTR, i'll take a new STS-V or Porche. i'm sure i could have just as much fun in one of those as i could the GTR.

just saying...

[OnURleft]

That can be said of most cars on this list, all those cars are pretty fast and it's easy as putting the tranny into 1st gear/drive and pressing the gas. That's not hard to do in any of those cars. Don't act like shifting requires some special skill that 1% of ppl can perform.



Could be said of ANY car...



I've read expert reviews saying it's very manageable to drive, even at its limit...that british guy in top gear even said in one episode that he didn't think it was worth the price of 2 evo's, before he drove it. But after driving it he was blown away and said it really was worth the price of 2 evos...

Also, the car was named automobile of the year by several magazines....if cars in the same price range/cheaper cars are just as much fun wouldn't they have been picked?

Just saying...

You are just an epically stupid magazine racer dude. I have no time for a response other than reading your subjective bullshit. I am talking from experience, and from seat time, not from what "someone said in some magazine" . Some stuff. I suggest you quit while you're behind.

[RL...]

You are just an epically stupid magazine racer dude. I have no time for a response other than reading your subjective bullshit. I am talking from experience, and from seat time, not from what "someone said in some magazine" . Some stuff. I suggest you quit while you're behind.

1) I do not race nor read many auto magazines....and as for you not having time, apparently you have time to browse online to auto forums and talk shit so don't tell us that you don't have time. You're fooling nobody.

2) You're response is just as subjective as mine

3) those people talking in magazines are a lot more credible than you



I was trying to have a friendly debate, but apparently you got hurt by my post and now you want to start talking shit online...real mature....you're such a badass

Now if we can keep the name calling out of this maybe we can converse like adults....

[speedminded]

1) I do not race nor read many auto magazines....and as for you not having time, apparently you have time to browse online to auto forums and talk shit so don't tell us that you don't have time. You're fooling nobody.

2) You're response is just as subjective as mine

3) those people talking in magazines are a lot more credible than you



I was trying to have a friendly debate, but apparently you got hurt by my post and now you want to start talking shit online...real mature....you're such a badass

Now if we can keep the name calling out of this maybe we can converse like adults....

LOLOLOL! The difference is OnURleft knows how to steer and control a car not just with the steering wheel but with the clutch, brake, and throttle.

If anyone thinks a car "drives itself" because it has a computer controlling the slave cylinder than you're a idiotic couch racer. Ferrari, BMW, all of them have been using automated MANUAL transmissions for years. The BMW SMG is the EXACT same transmission as the Manual 6-speed and uses a regular clutch and flywheel. No valve bodys, no springs, no torque converter, no bullshit found in an automatic. The only difference is the speed and control of your hand telling the computer that controls the slave cylinder instead of a foot lever. They are NOTHING like the manual operated automatics most of you think this car has found in a Mitsubishi for example.

The newer versions, including the GT-R, have 2 clutches and 2 main shafts with alternating gears that anticipates and prepares the next gear based on your rev's, throttle, and load...making it even quicker and smoother. A true "driver" is a balancing act of braking and throttle all while shifting and controlling the weight of the car...the way the clutch engages doesn't really matter as long as the power and torque is there when you need it. The transmissions like the GT-R allow it to get there quicker and smoother than any manual can.

I'd love to see how many people that talk shit have ever driven a true automated manual or even a true sequential other than a motorcycle. Hell I never even use a clutch on a bike unless i'm taking off or want to screw around in 2nd gear. It's basically the same principle.