whats the difference in turbo hp and all motor hp ?

[h22 jones]

I just want to get everybodys opion on how much hp it takes for a turboed car to run with a all motor car. For example in my experience it takes around 185hp for a all motor car to run mid 13s . It takes around 240hp for a turboed car to run mid 13s. A 250hp all motor car will run high 11s low 12s while it takes around 350 turboed hp to run this. I know there are a tone of other factors that control what a car runs but lets just keep it to allmotor and turboed hp in this thread. If you want to give the weight of the car to make it a little easier to compare thats fine but dont get into tire size , trany gearing , etc.

I just realy thought this would make for some good reading and maybe help some of the new guys decide weither they wanna go allmotor or turbo. I know its hard for turbo guys and all motor guys to have a discussion with out all the hating and bashing but please keep that crap out of this thread this should realy be a good discussion.

I have nothing against turbo cars honestly the reason i got into all motor ( ten years ago) was a gsr swap cost 3500 and a decent turbo kit was 3000 thats 6500 dollars in just the swap to run mid 13s. I ordered a jdm h22 with a lsd m2b4 trany shipped to the door for 2200 dollars . I paid 100 dollars for mounts , 120 dollars for axles, 40 dollars for accord jack shaft, 20 dollars for slim fan , 75 dollars for accord shifter and shift linkage,. I spent around 2600 on my swap and ran mid 13s and still had the option to turbo later it was all about running the same times at the track for less then half the price. All my friends hated on me when i ordered my swap untill they road in it one of them actualy have a h22 swapped hatch right now ( i did the swap about a year ago) and the other one has bought two or three h22 swaps just never finished them. Ive just always stuck with h22s every since then but thats besides the point post up your opions on the difference in how much hp it takes to run what times with either all motor or turboed.

Please post what you know from experience not what you have read . What i mean by this is we all know 300hp all motor will get you tens in calafornia and canada and 350 turboed hp will get you tens in canada lol. lets keep it local cars so they can be actualy compared if you dont understand why cars run so much faster on the west coast trust me when you bring them to the east cost they run no faster then we do nor do they make any more hp its all about the air so no way to compare a car from the east coast that you read about keep it local ( somebodys car that you actualy are friends with or your own car).

[Catnip]

From what I've seen, it's not so much of it takes turbo cars more power to run 13's compared to lower horsepower all motor cars, than a lot of turbo car owners don't set their car up for drag racing.

I took my NA hatch to the strip with 22" slicks, gutted, and a cold night for a reason... low power. I've seen a LOT of turbo guys go out on street tires, full weight, and high humidity/heat. However, Japan4racing had a stock GSR swap with a Peakboost turbo kit in a Civic that did DEEP 12's if not high 11's if I remember correctly.

[h22 jones]

I understand what your saying but look at it this way skunk2 is running 9s with what 330 all motor hp ? ive never seen a turbo car come close to that pro or not . I know thats not a fair comparison but my point is there is a difference same car set up the same a turbo car with the same hp will not run the same time as a all motor setup with the same hp . The reason is all motor is instant hp with a turbo you have to wait to get your hp. 185 all motor hatch vs 250 turboed power hatch at the eight i would be 5 car lengths in front of him at the quarter half a car length and he would trap 6 miles an hour faster then me. If the roads long enough the turbo will win but were talking quarter mile. if you raced from a role i could see were 250hp might just be 250 hp no matter were you get it from but from a dead stop at the track there is a difference and im sure somebody alot smarter then me will chime in and help explain why . Even right now i jump 2 or 3 car lengths on most high hp turboed cars coming off the line (I dont win the race with 450hp cars lol ) . my car feel slike it breaks in half man when it leaves . Ive seend a 600 hp turboed hatch seem slugish coming off the line but watch a 250hp all motor car leave .

I honestly figured some one would have a average percentage as to how much all motor hp would equal the same turboed hp. I also wanted the guys on here that dont know much to be able to see if they threw together a poor mans type r or just a nice budget build all motor ( because they didnt have the money to turbo) to see what kind of turbo cars they could run with . On this site all motor is kinda the red headed step child but its just because there are not alot of high hp all motor cars on this site. Take the crx from americas that kid has been running a b20vtec for years driving it everday ( so it cant be built for race gas) running mid 11s all motor for years thats pretty strong. lets say i finaly get around to putting together my motor which will make between 280 to 300 hp and it runs mid to low 11s i drive it everyday it gets good gas mileage and its dependable would you still feel like it was how the car was setup for the track. By the way my dads car has cut factory springs on cheap ass weapon are coilovers it would realy benifit from some nice suspension to but its not a race car we just havnt got around to looking for any lol. if you ever get on honda tech all motor is alot more appreciated and you cansee what you can realy do with them . Honestly whats suprising me is these damn turboed d sereis (dont get me wrong i think building a all motor d series is stupid just my opion lol ) making almost the same tourqe as hp . If somebody could figure out how to keep a head gasket on one at high boost there some bad little setups. bertas was just nasty and he never realy turned up the boost .

[h22 jones]

also the cars im talking about were on slicks set up realy nice. I understand what your saying catnip that you cant compare a bunch of turbo cars playing on street tires making all this power running slow times to a track ready all motor car. Thats not what im trying to do but on average ( you have your cars that just fall together and run like god for some reason ) if some body come on a turbo forum or a all motor forum gave the amount of hp they were trying to make and asked what times they would run about 60 percent of the people on here could give them a average time . With that being said the average time they got would be lower for a all motor with the same hp as a turboed car from what ive always seen.

[VTECxRoCKz]

All Motor baby, the power band is a consistant pull, as turbo has dramatic pull once spooled up

[Catnip]

I definitely understand what you're saying, Mike. The hatch I had did a 13.5 @ 92 mph with a stock JDM GSR (intake/exhaust), B16 trans, and ebay coilovers/tokico shocks. After riding in PT's stock H22 Civic, I can't even imagine how strong your car is.

To be honest, I think it comes down to if you like roll racing or drag racing. I never had a turbo car like my Sentra before b/c I didn't care about the trap or roll racing, just the ET, so I had cars like my hatch... now I have the challenge of getting my car to hook at the track and get off the line to run good ETs to match the trap, lol.

BTW, met your dad at SDR the weekend before last; very nice guy

[*EFilliated*]

Roll racing is not a race

[Catnip]

Roll racing is not a race

I still can't hook with street slicks in 1st and 2nd gear because my car is wrong wheel drive, shitty suspension, and makes around 330whp, roll racing is racing. LOL

[CaTcH22]

I know my car would only run 13.7-13.8 at the track with my old setup @ 250whp, but I could put 3 or 4 cars on a 12 sec car on the street, back to back runs. I think its got alot to due with turbo lag, bogging out of the launch and lag in between shifts. At least for me.

[Z0_o6]

a properly setup turbo car can make use of the extra power, once you add in anti-lag, flat foot shifting and a good driver, spool becomes a non-issue.

most people who build turbo honda's (myself included) know that hooking with any serious power is an expensive and difficult thing to do, and therefore don't really worry about it. I know with my civic, the first time it dead hooks on a launch it will probably rip the diff slam out of the transmission. I respect an all-motor build just the same as anything else with time and effort put into it.

[Catnip]

I know my car would only run 13.7-13.8 at the track with my old setup @ 250whp, but I could put 3 or 4 cars on a 12 sec car on the street, back to back runs. I think its got alot to due with turbo lag, bogging out of the launch and lag in between shifts. At least for me.

Like I said before, I understand what Mike is saying, but would you have not dropped a full second with anti-lag, good slicks, no lift shift, and boost by gear?

[*EFilliated*]

Catnip I like how u taking dis whole mod thing to ur head and deleting my post

[h22 jones]

I never read your post but i ask for any bashing comments to be deleted so if it was hating on turbo cars thats why it was deleted cause i asked for it. I appreciate your opion i mean your on my said lol but i dont want this to turn into a bashing session . I realy think give this a couple days to let people get on the computer and we will all learn a little something.

[h22 jones]

owk d16 your car made around 330 and you couldnt get good times at the track but like you said out run many 12 second cars on the street. I do beleive your car should have run a better time when berta run his hatch i think it was on around 18 pounds . It ran 12 flat with just a little more hp then you was making so i wouldnt compare your car as a mid 13 second car . Lets say you did run a mid 12 with your car would you say that is about were your car should be ? My point is im giving you a whole second and your car had 330hp and my all motor car only has 250 and were running low 12s see my point you would have 80 more hp but still wouldnt run as good of a time. If you look at my dads dyno you will see this car is realy a beast even though it doesnt have that 280hp dyno. Now my point by saying that is the power band if off the charts ive seen several h22 motors make a higher top number on the dyno but we make 20 more hp across the power band. Its all about usable hp i need to find a turbo dyno around 250hp and overlay our dyno so you can see what i mean or even another 250 all motor dyno would show the same thing. I been trying to put my pro2 cams in my dads motor that would give it 1000 more rpms on the top side probably make it close to 280hp. He want let me because if you read up the major difference is they change the primary lobes on pro2 cams were the stage 2 cams have stock primary lobes and thats why my dads car gets 35 miles to the gallon as long as he stays out of vtec its running on stock lobes and he loves his gas mileage. That motor is built so damn well i would love to see what it would do with a big set of cams in it. It pulls 22 pounds of vacum and probably has 15,000 miles on it.

[h22 jones]

qwk d16 i also stated that given enough road the turbo car would eventualy win but thats not racing . When people say role racing isnt racing its because most people set there cars up for the track they gear it for the track and getting off the line i would say is 70 percent of the race lol anybody can do the rest.

My dad said he meet a couple guys at the track i wasnt sure who it was but he said that b16 hatch was running pretty strong and well 12s is 12s so we know your car is running good. Whats your car weigh catnip?

[thundercatz1]

In my opinion all motor horsepower is reliale hp, not saying that a turbo cannot be a reliable with a good tune, but somehwere down the line in the near or distant future your gonna need some type of rebuild. With my car and mods and (SLICKS) I should be at a 13.9 and I have over 200hp the best I can get on stock street tires is a 14.3 given that the weather that nite at sdr was stuffy and hot and I'm 2800lbs and my sorry ass track driving lolol. O well hopefully I can get better.

Turbo cars thrive in roll racing and long distance so everyone knows it will beat an allmotor car, but all motor cars that makes decent power( cars that are kind of close in competition) will have a better chance in a 1/8 or 1/4 mile than a turbo car due to traction loss when that boost hit the tires and lag....

Just my two cent with intermediate knowledge and experience.

Me and h22 jones 30 roll lets experiment all motor to all motor one day....

[h22 jones]

Talking about ripping the diff out the trany when i leave the line like i said it feels like the car is breaking in half and im only leaving at 6000 rpms . I could get more out this car like you said flat foot shift there are a tone of things to do. I treat this car like a baby its not a race car we do nothing to take a chance on breaking it or over reving it. Now if i am at a real race and its gonna be close then yea ill pull out all the stops but its not worth it to me at test and tune just to try and nock a couple tenths off . I also keep just eough air in the slicks to let it spin just a little . The only time it has ever completely grabbed was at import show down and it was on drag radials so i never saw that coming. It broke a 450 hp axle flush with the trany so sometimes spinning a little coming off the line isnt a bad thing.

[h22 jones]

how about a 40 role i still have traction issues at 30 on the street . Does your car weigh that with you in it ? My accord weighed that and i ran 13.9 with 220hp so depending on if thats with you in it or not thats not that bad. The hatch weighs 2450 it probably weighs more now then when it was new lol. It realy pulls as hard at 100 as it does at 40 so what ever you want to do is fine just let me know . It has to be for atleast 5 dollars everybody else has some of your money i want to be able to say i do lol. Ill give that 5 dollars to rod and get them to hang it up up there at prestige so maurice and them can mess with you if you stop by lol.

[DarKStaR]

Roll racing is taking the launch out of the equation as well as the whole fwd vs rwd vs awd. For example an all motor car will want a dig race with a turbo car, but the turbo car will want a roll due to spinning real bad. Alot of people will say roll racing isnt racing because which ever car has more power will win. You still have to be able to "drive" the car, like if your turboed and going from a 40 roll. If you know its going to break loose, you have to know how to pedal it and be quick on the shifts. With my old all motor setup i raced a few cars that should have beat me to due being about 400-500lbs lighter with similar power, but with them granny shifting and me shifting the way i do i would beat them. With a turbo car the more power you have, it becomes a fight with traction and how to put that power to the ground. With an all motor car you are utilizing every horsepower and knowing what works and what doesnt. Power to weight comes in as a huge factor also on an all motor car.

[Catnip]

Catnip I like how u taking dis whole mod thing to ur head and deleting my post

The post I deleted from you wasn't needed. I responded as to why roll racing is used. It actually pertains to this thread. I wasn't looking for an arguement. Your post said "I'm not going to argue with you and ruin this thread."

If that's so, shut the fuck up unless you have something constructive to say. If you can't follow suit, I will delete your comments and ban you.

qwk d16 i also stated that given enough road the turbo car would eventualy win but thats not racing . When people say role racing isnt racing its because most people set there cars up for the track they gear it for the track and getting off the line i would say is 70 percent of the race lol anybody can do the rest.

My dad said he meet a couple guys at the track i wasnt sure who it was but he said that b16 hatch was running pretty strong and well 12s is 12s so we know your car is running good. Whats your car weigh catnip?

I know black4drek was there as well, so that may be who he met in addition.

The Sentra weighed out at 2640 with a 1/4 tank and no driver. Most times I run with around 3/4 tank and I weigh about 160. Power should be around 315whp REALISTICALLY considering I'm running out of injector. 315whp, 2800+ race weight, and only 2.0 60', 12.61 isn't bad. I was on the rev limiter in 4th b/c the tires are too small.

[CaTcH22]

Yeah the best 60ft I could ever get was a 2.5. lol. The car was not setup for drag racing and couldnt get it to work right, I would easily assume that I could get into the 12's with 109mph trap speeds I was puttin down. I love all motor cars, so either way is cool with me.

[thundercatz1]

how about a 40 role i still have traction issues at 30 on the street . Does your car weigh that with you in it ? My accord weighed that and i ran 13.9 with 220hp so depending on if thats with you in it or not thats not that bad. The hatch weighs 2450 it probably weighs more now then when it was new lol. It realy pulls as hard at 100 as it does at 40 so what ever you want to do is fine just let me know . It has to be for atleast 5 dollars everybody else has some of your money i want to be able to say i do lol. Ill give that 5 dollars to rod and get them to hang it up up there at prestige so maurice and them can mess with you if you stop by lol.

Lolol lets meet in the middle and do a 35 roll.... and we can do it for 5 hell I will just say i bought you lunch lolol. With me in it, it weighs 2845lbs.... It will be fun my little k series might surprise you lol

[DarKStaR]

I dont think you will surprise him lol. Let me know if this goes down haha

[thundercatz1]

I dont think you will surprise him lol. Let me know if this goes down haha

He might be buying me lunch lolol

[DarKStaR]

i HIGHLY doubt that. 110mph>99mph traps. He could give you the hit and a car or so and still come around you while granny shifting

[thundercatz1]

i HIGHLY doubt that. 110mph>99mph traps. He could give you the hit and a car or so and still come around you while granny shifting

but I have a k20 lol

[DarKStaR]

he has a h22. bigger motor fuck a k20 lulz

[thundercatz1]

he has a h22. bigger motor fuck a k20 lulz

BLASPHEMY LOL ASK FOR FORGIVENESS LOLOL

[thundercatz1]

So darkstar lets do a dig to a 1/8th mile lol and do the all motor turbo theory ? lol

[DarKStaR]

ok, at the track, both of us on slicks

[h22 jones]

lmao im sure your car runs strong top end and no offence but it will defently not suprise me . Honestly if you put a bull shit turbo kit on that motor and out run me i would be suprised then . Im going to tell you what you need to do total that car buy it back from the insurance company pull the motor and put it in a hatch . That will be a start but you will still have a tone to do to be fast lol.

[DarKStaR]

Mike when you gonna put my small ass in that car and see what it can do lol jk. And are you going tuesday?

Thunder-me and you have already talked about what to do to get you a little faster, just get some money lol

[thundercatz1]

Mike when you gonna put my small ass in that car and see what it can do lol jk. And are you going tuesday?

Thunder-me and you have already talked about what to do to get you a little faster, just get some money lol

Troof

[Z0_o6]

That will be a start but you will still have a tone to do to be fast lol.

Amen. It's stupid how much shit it takes.

[*EFilliated*]

Damn thundercatz and I thought my car was heavy at 2500

[thundercatz1]

Damn thundercatz and I thought my car was heavy at 2500

Yea Type-S are heavy as hell but there is one guy on clubrsx that got his down to 2300lbs

[*EFilliated*]

O damn, wonder Wat he cut?

[Catnip]

Yea Type-S are heavy as hell but there is one guy on clubrsx that got his down to 2300lbs

I'd be running 11's at the same power with that weight, lulz.

[thundercatz1]

O damn, wonder Wat he cut?

no interior,ac,ps,firewall,bumper support,sound deading,cf hood,hatch, lightweight windows,air bags and some more shit......lol

at catnip yea that would be nice, just imagine if our cars came from the factory weighing 2300lbs I bet the sticker price would be much higher lol

[h22 jones]

I realy expected to get more response on this thread i guess nobody realy knows lol. Most people either go boost or all motor not both and you would just about have to go both to figure out what im asking or get a ruff estrimate. post up some cars that you know are legit about what there running there weight ,hp,et and weither there all motor or boost . For example 2450 pounds , 252 hp all motor 12.3 at 110 . I have traped faster but that was my best pass. then look at the difference in the cars running boost and all motor and what it takes for them to run certain times.