Vteckidd vs OSUPatrick Vids

[BABY J]

Why is it that only ricers use 60' times for excuses about their ET's.

"I ran a 14.0 with 400 hp, but it was with a 3.0 60ft"

gay.

Not all FWD drivers are ricers. You'd be suprised what 'other' cars "ricers" have at home, or have owned.

And you said it right - we argue about our E.T. but often times can still mile-an-hour. So STFU

Common sense tells you that your short-track times are important. Every1 was building big end pro FWDs until a little lady named Stephanie Eggum shook shit up w/ short-track times. She didn't move outta the big end any better than any1 else in the class - but she left hard and that's where she won races (Seitsinger did the same thing, but not as well as she and Frank)

FWD doesn't work. Do not assume that us FWD guys do not know that. RWD guys seem to think that we don't - we do. It's still fun. Launching a FWD car correctly takes skill - do not downplay the driving ability of the 6 people (they're all dead) on the planet that can do it well. LOL

Trap speeds do not lie. That 14.0 w/ a 3.0 60 coming from a car that will still mile-an-hour tells you what the car is capable of in a perfect world. (yes - we know the world isn't perfect).

The "correct" tire, rear-suspension, and front suspension) to make FWD cars leave "hard" and push back on the front wheels is generally not streetable - you'd catch air out back if u run over a road reflector - LOL. Most people add power, add a tire and go racing... that is only half the puzzle. (but you already know that)


And finally...

[SmackedInATL]

Not all FWD drivers are ricers. You'd be suprised what 'other' cars "ricers" have at home, or have owned.

And you said it right - we argue about our E.T. but often times can still mile-an-hour. So STFU

Common sense tells you that your short-track times are important. Every1 was building big end pro FWDs until a little lady named Stephanie Eggum shook shit up w/ short-track times. She didn't move outta the big end any better than any1 else in the class - but she left hard and that's where she won races (Seitsinger did the same thing, but not as well as she and Frank)

FWD doesn't work. Do not assume that us FWD guys do not know that. RWD guys seem to think that we don't - we do. It's still fun. Launching a FWD car correctly takes skill - do not downplay the driving ability of the 6 people (they're all dead) on the planet that can do it well. LOL

Trap speeds do not lie. That 14.0 w/ a 3.0 60 coming from a car that will still mile-an-hour tells you what the car is capable of in a perfect world. (yes - we know the world isn't perfect).

The "correct" tire, rear-suspension, and front suspension) to make FWD cars leave "hard" and push back on the front wheels is generally not streetable - you'd catch air out back if u run over a road reflector - LOL. Most people add power, add a tire and go racing... that is only half the puzzle. (but you already know that)


And finally...

Dude, here is your fuck up:

And you said it right - we argue about our E.T. but often times can still mile-an-hour. So STFU

Who the cares if you can trap high if you still 60' damn 3 seconds. Races are won by ET, not trap. So there you go still making the damn excuses. Only ricers take roll racing seriously. Granted, it is fun but any real racer doesn't give a damn about a roll race, unlike most Honda/JDM fanboys.

[BABY J]

^^ If you wanna go there then I'll say any "real" racer doesn't callout FWD cars if they have RWD cars. Hmmm... now lets revisit some of your callouts.

~ stirs the pot

And personally I don't have to make excuses... it's fun for me... until racing and/or winning races determines if I have money for dinner it's FUN (for me) - nothing more. It's a great place to spend too much money. I have RWD cars and FWD cars.

[Vteckidd]

well in an NA Honda, if your 60ft isnt AT LEAST a 1.8, you are NOT going to run a good time, period.

Turbo Hondas have the top end power to make up for shitty 60fts. RWD Cars , its 10000 times easier to cut good 60fts pushing a car forward than pulling.

How come so many RWD cars with Drag radials cut 1.7-1.8 60 foots? FWD to do that you have to have slicks.

So i dont even care about final times really, i care more about my 60ft.

And smacked i think you are wrong, ALL I EVER used to do was Dig runs, but somewhere in the last 4-5 years everyone started to do roll races

[Lankhoss]

Why is it that only ricers use 60' times for excuses about their ET's.

"I ran a 14.0 with 400 hp, but it was with a 3.0 60ft"

gay.

I know what you're saying, but the 60' does actually have a lot to do with your trap speed.

The higher your 60' is, the worse your traction is. On really high 60' times, traction is REALLY bad and can be a telltale sign of spinning the entire length of the track, but a decently powered car cutting a 2.4 60' has either bogged to the point of almost shutting off, or is spinning so badly he won't grab until after the 1/8.

I can only trap 126.xx in my car, yet guys with a STOCK Z06 have trapped 127 - 128 (very few have hit the 129's). But these guys are usually cutting a 1.85 60' or better, which is getting them a couple mph faster in the 1/8 than me.

Once you get to where you have cars that are actually setup to race at the track, with slicks, suspension, and all that...it's the exact opposite. A slower ET will give you a better trap speed, and lower ET's also have lower trap speeds. But when traction IS an issue (street tires), usually the lower ET's are higher trap speeds as well.

[BABY J]

I know what you're saying, but the 60' does actually have a lot to do with your trap speed.

The higher your 60' is, the worse your traction is. On really high 60' times, traction is REALLY bad and can be a telltale sign of spinning the entire length of the track, but a decently powered car cutting a 2.4 60' has either bogged to the point of almost shutting off, or is spinning so badly he won't grab until after the 1/8.

I can only trap 126.xx in my car, yet guys with a STOCK Z06 have trapped 127 - 128 (very few have hit the 129's). But these guys are usually cutting a 1.85 60' or better, which is getting them a couple mph faster in the 1/8 than me.

Once you get to where you have cars that are actually setup to race at the track, with slicks, suspension, and all that...it's the exact opposite. A slower ET will give you a better trap speed, and lower ET's also have lower trap speeds. But when traction IS an issue (street tires), usually the lower ET's are higher trap speeds as well.

Are you from a planet where... like... they make sense? WOW!

I'm sure Smacked knew how it relates (i hope) and was just making a crack at FWD cars. I have a yard full of FWD (and a few RWD) and I make fun of FWD as well.

I feel sorry for the people who get so caught up in this shit that it's not fun for them anymore.

[b@d @pple]

i dont understand how anyone could say that 60' times dont matter...i would say with an n/a honda,the first 60' are going to dictate your race..2.2-up is fucking terrible..get a 60' at 1.7 or 1.8 and youd see a tremendous difference in the outcome

[oleblue]

I know going from a 2.4 60ft to a 2.2 60ft I trapped like 3 to 4 mph faster

[Lankhoss]

i dont understand how anyone could say that 60' times dont matter...i would say with an n/a honda,the first 60' are going to dictate your race..2.2-up is fucking terrible..get a 60' at 1.7 or 1.8 and youd see a tremendous difference in the outcome

I think these discussions get started when people start trying to compare their track times to roll racing.

When two cars are going from a roll, then their trap speed is ALL that matters. It doesn't matter if it takes them 14 seconds or 9 seconds to do so. This isn't something set in stone, but it's a very good rule of thumb to go by.

When drag racing, ET is ALL that matters...trap speed doesn't mean a thing. When you are heads up racing, there is only 1 goal.....get from the starting point to the finishing point in as little amount of time as possible. For someone trying to achieve this, the BEST thing they can do is get the best possible traction so they can use 100% of their power for a longer distance of the track.

There are exceptions to both of these rules in extreme cases. We've all seen cars where someone put gobs and gobs of money into their motor, and didn't take any measurements to make sure it goes to the ground. So yeah, it's POSSIBLE to have a car that can't get ouf the 13's yet traps 135+mph.....I actually had a friend with a built C5R block and STS twins on his Vette, and couldn't run better than really high 12's and low 13's (at Commerce), but always trapped over 136mph, even spinning and part-throttling the car the entire length of the track. The flip side of that, is if someone makes decent power and excellent traction, they can get a good ET AND mph. Thacker's Camaro is a good example of this. He "only" made 420rwhp (80 less than me), but was cutting a 1.6s 60' and trapping around 124mph I believe. I can only trap 126 at the track with low 2s 60's, but would actually pull Thacker much more than a 2mph difference on the highway. A high 9 second car would do better on a highway than a 12 second car with the same power, but the gap in differences on the highway would be SUBSTANTIALLY smaller than they would be at the track.

So GENERALLY SPEAKING......if you're going to do a roll race, trap speed is what you want to look at or talk about, and 60' times mean nothing. But that's not the Bible of speed or anything, it's just a good estimate that often times turns out to be an accurate guess to the outcome of a roll race. But there are a lot of factors to look at before coming to that conclusion.

So these blanket statements of "60' doesn't matter" and such.......well, there is good reasoning behind saying something like that, but it's not QUITE that simple. It seems like cars within the mid 11 to mid 13 second times follow these generalizations almost perfectly. Cars that are faster or slower than that, seem to start straying from those guesstimates more.....at least that's what I've seen in my experience.

[b@d @pple]

agreed if were talking about roll racing

[EmminoDaGreat]

Dude, here is your fuck up:



Who the cares if you can trap high if you still 60' damn 3 seconds. Races are won by ET, not trap. So there you go still making the damn excuses. Only ricers take roll racing seriously. Granted, it is fun but any real racer doesn't give a damn about a roll race, unlike most Honda/JDM fanboys.

It seems all you do is run your mouth, especially when people call you out and you're only willing to do runs how you want them. It is easy for a rwd guy to run his mouth about digs when its obvious they always have the advantage.

And the 60ft time is no excuse, its my driving error, also obvious that if you cut a 2.2 60ft instead of a higher one, your overall et will go down(assuming all runs are alike).Its obvious the car should be faster seeing as it has more power, but I need to learn the car again, as things have changed. What excuse was made btw? I am pretty sure the statement I made was to show you that mike runs 14.1's, I ran 14.2 and I put buses on mike all day. This was to clear up "mike has a 12 sec car bs".

As for your races are won by ET comment, that is 100% correct. If you look at a "FWD RICER" there traps will always be much higher than that of a "RWD GOD" Simply because they make more on the big end (assuming they are equal time cars).

Or how about TS240, his car should be an easy low 13 sec car. But he ran mid 14's this weekend, with a trap speed of 111mph. So you're saying that this car should run 14's and his trap speed doesnt indicate he has the ability to go faster, assuming he works on his short game. Nothing matters more on a dig/dragstrip than the short game.

[EmminoDaGreat]

I think these discussions get started when people start trying to compare their track times to roll racing.

When two cars are going from a roll, then their trap speed is ALL that matters. It doesn't matter if it takes them 14 seconds or 9 seconds to do so. This isn't something set in stone, but it's a very good rule of thumb to go by.

When drag racing, ET is ALL that matters...trap speed doesn't mean a thing. When you are heads up racing, there is only 1 goal.....get from the starting point to the finishing point in as little amount of time as possible. For someone trying to achieve this, the BEST thing they can do is get the best possible traction so they can use 100% of their power for a longer distance of the track.

There are exceptions to both of these rules in extreme cases. We've all seen cars where someone put gobs and gobs of money into their motor, and didn't take any measurements to make sure it goes to the ground. So yeah, it's POSSIBLE to have a car that can't get ouf the 13's yet traps 135+mph.....I actually had a friend with a built C5R block and STS twins on his Vette, and couldn't run better than really high 12's and low 13's (at Commerce), but always trapped over 136mph, even spinning and part-throttling the car the entire length of the track. The flip side of that, is if someone makes decent power and excellent traction, they can get a good ET AND mph. Thacker's Camaro is a good example of this. He "only" made 420rwhp (80 less than me), but was cutting a 1.6s 60' and trapping around 124mph I believe. I can only trap 126 at the track with low 2s 60's, but would actually pull Thacker much more than a 2mph difference on the highway. A high 9 second car would do better on a highway than a 12 second car with the same power, but the gap in differences on the highway would be SUBSTANTIALLY smaller than they would be at the track.

So GENERALLY SPEAKING......if you're going to do a roll race, trap speed is what you want to look at or talk about, and 60' times mean nothing. But that's not the Bible of speed or anything, it's just a good estimate that often times turns out to be an accurate guess to the outcome of a roll race. But there are a lot of factors to look at before coming to that conclusion.

So these blanket statements of "60' doesn't matter" and such.......well, there is good reasoning behind saying something like that, but it's not QUITE that simple. It seems like cars within the mid 11 to mid 13 second times follow these generalizations almost perfectly. Cars that are faster or slower than that, seem to start straying from those guesstimates more.....at least that's what I've seen in my experience.

Thank you. This sums it up.

[SmackedInATL]

It seems all you do is run your mouth, especially when people call you out and you're only willing to do runs how you want them. It is easy for a rwd guy to run his mouth about digs when its obvious they always have the advantage.

Run my mouth? Are your feelings hurt? When people call me out and ask me to run them for money and then put terms on the race? Get the fuck out of here. I've already been through this.

You going to call me out then run me heads up or shut the fuck up. Its really that simple, if you can't comprehend that then I'm really sorry.

[SpooL'DGsR]

Run my mouth? Are your feelings hurt? When people call me out and ask me to run them for money and then put terms on the race? Get the fuck out of here. I've already been through this.

You going to call me out then run me heads up or shut the fuck up. Its really that simple, if you can't comprehend that then I'm really sorry.

my 10 sec integra comprehends........ lolololol

[TheSnail]

I have only been to the track once, so Im confused on the track time stuff. I know that the lower the 60' the higher the trap. Though with Catnip said .4 off 60' is .8 off ET. I always thought if you ran lets say a 2.2 60' at 14.0, than ran a 1.8 it would just take off .4 off the 14.0 to a 13.6. With taking what Catnip stated I looked at my times again. I ran a 17.1 @ 98.9 3.7 60' and a 14.1 @ 101.2 2.3 60', thats a 1.4s diff in 60' and a 3s diff in ET. So 3/1.4 = 2.14. So for every .1s off the 60' is .2s off the ET? Also a friend of mine said spinning will lower ET but increase trap which makes absolutely no sense. Lack of traction, lack acceleration is how I see it.

[ls-r teg]

if mike let me drive his car at he track i bet i could get it in the 12's with my slicks

[SmackedInATL]

my 10 sec integra comprehends........ lolololol

Good, because I don't put you in a class with the rest of these FWD guy that use their 60' times as a crutch for shitty ETs...looking forward to the 9th, hope your boss is in a good mood when you ask him to get off early!

[Vteckidd]

if mike let me drive his car at he track i bet i could get it in the 12's with my slicks

yeah right.

Ill bet you and anyone else $100 ill give you 3 passes. Ill bring the slicks. If you can make my car run faster than a 13.2 you keep the money, you cant, you pay me.

Come on guys im not THAT bad of a driver

[Catnip]

I have only been to the track once, so Im confused on the track time stuff. I know that the lower the 60' the higher the trap. Though with Catnip said .4 off 60' is .8 off ET. I always thought if you ran lets say a 2.2 60' at 14.0, than ran a 1.8 it would just take off .4 off the 14.0 to a 13.6. With taking what Catnip stated I looked at my times again. I ran a 17.1 @ 98.9 3.7 60' and a 14.1 @ 101.2 2.3 60', thats a 1.4s diff in 60' and a 3s diff in ET. So 3/1.4 = 2.14. So for every .1s off the 60' is .2s off the ET? Also a friend of mine said spinning will lower ET but increase trap which makes absolutely no sense. Lack of traction, lack acceleration is how I see it.

Like I said, roughly .2 in the 1/4 per every .1 in the 60'.

I went from a 13.7 @ 103 (or 104, can't remember) w/ 2.2, to a 13.3 @103 w/ 2.0

[SmackedInATL]

yeah right.

Ill bet you and anyone else $100 ill give you 3 passes. Ill bring the slicks. If you can make my car run faster than a 13.2 you keep the money, you cant, you pay me.

Come on guys im not THAT bad of a driver

Now thats a good deal to shut up the shit talkers.

[Catnip]

yeah right.

Ill bet you and anyone else $100 ill give you 3 passes. Ill bring the slicks. If you can make my car run faster than a 13.2 you keep the money, you cant, you pay me.

Come on guys im not THAT bad of a driver

Not saying you're a bad driver, but a SICK launch with slicks will drop it considerably... What is your 1/8th mile time?

[On_Her_Face]

So either Commerce is SLOW or the other tracks are FAST (ie not accurate).

I have always wondered this myself. I know with NHRA tracks the grade on the track has to be under 1%. Does anybody know if SDR is under a 1% grade?

[AFSil80]

I have always wondered this myself. I know with NHRA tracks the grade on the track has to be under 1%. Does anybody know if SDR is under a 1% grade?

Being that they are an NHRA-sanctioned track, I believe so.

Off-topic: If anyone is ever down here from Atlanta, post it up so us local guys will come out and at least keep it from being entirely boring between passes. You might even find a few close matches, haha.

[SmackedInATL]

Being that they are an NHRA-sanctioned track, I believe so.

Off-topic: If anyone is ever down here from Atlanta, post it up so us local guys will come out and at least keep it from being entirely boring between passes. You might even find a few close matches, haha.

Will be there on the 9th.

[BABY J]

Good, because I don't put you in a class with the rest of these FWD guy that use their 60' times as a crutch for shitty ETs...looking forward to the 9th, hope your boss is in a good mood when you ask him to get off early!

You either

1) don't read well
2) read very well but have a problem w/ reading comprehension


Your FWD/60ft/ET argument/gripe/comment was all but debunked (in a rather nice way) by Lankhoss, myself and others. Get off of it.

[SmackedInATL]

You either

1) don't read well
2) read very well but have a problem w/ reading comprehension


Your FWD/60ft/ET argument/gripe/comment was all but debunked (in a rather nice way) by Lankhoss, myself and others. Get off of it.

LOL, anyways. The point of that first post that started this whole debate was that when SOME FWD guys post their ETs they are always like "but that was with a 2.7 60ft". No one gives a fuck that a FWD can't 60' for shit, they only care about the ET. The car runs what it runs. If the car runs 14.1 at the track, there is no "its a 12 second car if I could get it off the line". Its not a 12 second car until it runs 12 seconds.

[AFSil80]

Will be there on the 9th.

If I'm not in Miami, I'll try and make it out. I doubt I'll be in the 240, though.

[The Creeper]

whats up dude, havent seen you post in a while

Not much man. Same old shit. I moved out to the boonies even more so over the summer. Just going to school now, How's the vette coming along? I need to check it out in person...

[b@d @pple]

LOL, anyways. The point of that first post that started this whole debate was that when SOME FWD guys post their ETs they are always like "but that was with a 2.7 60ft". No one gives a fuck that a FWD can't 60' for shit, they only care about the ET. The car runs what it runs. If the car runs 14.1 at the track, there is no "its a 12 second car if I could get it off the line". Its not a 12 second car until it runs 12 seconds.

so you agree that mikes car runs 14s

[SmackedInATL]

so you agree that mikes car runs 14s

I could really care less what the car runs at the track. You haven't seen me in that debate other than me seeing the vids in the thread and stating that the car looks like a high 13 second car.

[b@d @pple]

I could really care less what the car runs at the track. You haven't seen me in that debate other than me seeing the vids in the thread and stating that the car looks like a high 13 second car.

ok

[ls-r teg]

what kind of suspention you running?

yeah right.

Ill bet you and anyone else $100 ill give you 3 passes. Ill bring the slicks. If you can make my car run faster than a 13.2 you keep the money, you cant, you pay me.

Come on guys im not THAT bad of a driver

[Vteckidd]

Tein 32 way adjustable REs, Function 7 R lower Control Arms, Beaks rear tie bar, ASR rear subrframe brace, usual strutbars and crap.

[ejohnson88]

On slicks its a 12sec car. My car alone is a low 13 on slicks and I weight 400lbs more than him and make the same power.

[Vteckidd]

On slicks its a 12sec car. My car alone is a low 13 on slicks and I weight 400lbs more than him and make the same power.

i HIGHLY doubt your car weighs 400lbs more than me. Mine is around 2150 WITHOUT me in it. Theres no way your EG weighs 2500-2600 lbs. Stock it weighed 2200lbs. Im sure you gained some weight from the K, but then you lose weight from the Carbon hood (dont you have one?) etc.

Maybe its 2300 without you in it i cant see it being that much heavier though.

Did your car actually run low 13s on slicks? If it did nice job, what was your 60ft, what was your MPH.

Lastly, you cannot compare your K Series to my B Series. You make significantly more power under the curve and significantly more TQ. They are 2 totally different engines.

Case in point i overlayed a prominent NA Honda guys graph with mine. He made 206whp, i made 202. Should be pretty evenly matched right?

WRONG

He was making as much as 20ft/lbs more TQ and up to 14whp more in whole sections of the RPM band. From 5000-6500 he had me by huge amounts.

Stop looking at peak numbers only

[allmotorcrx]

On slicks its a 12sec car. My car alone is a low 13 on slicks and I weight 400lbs more than him and make the same power.

Damn low 13s with slicks can none of y'all all motor guys run in the 12s that's sad

[Vteckidd]

running 12a all motor is not an easy feat in a FWD car, sorry pal

[allmotorcrx]

running 12a all motor is not an easy feat in a FWD car, sorry pal

He'll I do of all day long with a non built motor

[Vteckidd]

He'll I do of all day long with a non built motor

post a time slip and mods

[allmotorcrx]

post a time slip and mods

my best time is 12.6 @ 108 mods are cheap header,cheap intake,and exhaust