Rant @ IA photogs

[osnap]

alright listen, i can empathize with you guys when all these little bastards are getting their first DSLR's and running around calling themselves bonafide photographers, but hold on a sec. Most of the "new camera" crew aren't going around claiming to be God's gift to picturetaking, but are rather just interested in picking up a new hobby and taking some pictures, and were most likely inspired to do so by looking at y'alls material.

I really don't understand why a lot of you guys (speedminded, AP, etc) are so up-in-arms about people wanting to buy a D40 and have at it. Its not a "bandwagon", and don't act like you started it - automotive photography is by no means a new entity, and you guys had to start somewhere too - AND you were inspired by someone else's work, I'm sure. You guys seem to feel so threatened and insulted by people just dicking around with their first SLRs... let your experience speak for itself in the picture quality.

I can see how the sheer volume of the "what camera should i get" type threads would get annoying, but why not collaborate and make an FAQ thread or something and link all these threads to it, and maybe even go into some basic technique and tips from you guys, the "pro"s. Help out a bit. With talent like Nemesis, Chang, SpeedMinded, DinanM3, A.P., etc etc, this section could be invaluable to new photographers to really learn the trade, but instead its just a big collective eyeroll from some of you guys and it honestly comes off as a bit pompous, though i doubt thats your intention.

[Maniacc]

This is pretty fucking weak... I could eat alphabet soup and shit a better rant.

[osnap]

This is pretty fucking weak... I could eat alphabet soup and shit a better rant.

and this isn't an attempt at some lameass flame war, its just a fucking observation. whoreslounge is that way ----->

[Maniacc]

If you're going to rant at least post up some names of the so called photographers.

This is just a pathetic attempt at 'trying too hard' to prove a point. Everyone is going to get new cameras and take pictures. Who really gives a shit if they're adding a watermark to them or they come up with their own photography name? Others have done this already so why even bother wasting time on something that no one could give a shit about and something that people aren't going to take into consideration and actually say 'hey, he has a point.'

I'm not starting some flamewar with you because that would be pointless. I would win and completely ruin your moment of 'glory' with this 'impressive' rant.

[osnap]

...ok.

[A.P. Photography]

What it comes down to is this, it is a bandwagon trend. With the intro of entry level DSLR's people automatically think that a new camera will result in better photos. Fact is that a lot of high end point and shoots will deliver exactly what they need and will be more camera than they could ever want or be able to use.

It seems that every new "Help me choose a camera thread" that pops up is about which DSLR to get. Fact of the matter is that they rarely ever look at what "good" lenses cost or that you will need a lens for certain enviroments (i.e. wide angle, mid range zoom, tele photo). A point and shoot will handle 85% of the "camera upgrades" and they will spend less money in the long run and still be able to produce great photos. Speedminded is a perfect example of using a point and shoot to its full potential. The photos he took with the p&s still blow away most of what is posted now days on here from people with DSLR's.

If you want to get a DSLR then fine. RESEARCH the cameras in your price range on your own (www.dpreview.com, www.photography-on-the.net, www.nikonians.com) and when you narrow it down to the few you think you want, then go hold them in a store and see which ones fit your hand the best, have the menu layouts you feel comfortable with, etc. Also research what lenses costs when you want to upgrade. Figure out what you are going to shoot. If you are going to be a "car photographer" and you shoot at night then a high FPS and high ISO is not going to be of a concern to you since you will be on a tripod.


I rarely shoot cars so I am not worried about the influx of "car photographers".

[GGPIS3]

the only issue i see is when people go take some pictures and then call it a photoshoot. back in the day, when people would say photoshoot, you would assume its for some type of print, magazine, website, tv, newspaper... nowadays, everyone and their mom takes pics and then calls it a photoshoot.

just because a group of friends gets together for a few pics doesn't equate to a photoshoot imo. just title the damn thread, some pics of our cars, but no, everyone wants to think they are cool and type, photoshoot... thats lame as shit!

its even worse when they post up pictures that a 10 yr old with a 10 yr old camera could do better...

[james]

.....the only issue i see is when people go take some pictures and then call it a photoshoot..... think they are cool and type.....photoshoot

terminology isn't a problem at all. besides this has already been tackled before.


also,

What it comes down to is this, it is a bandwagon trend. With the intro of entry level DSLR's people automatically think that a new camera will result in better photos. Fact is that a lot of high end point and shoots will deliver exactly what they need and will be more camera than they could ever want or be able to use.

It seems that every new "Help me choose a camera thread" that pops up is about which DSLR to get. Fact of the matter is that they rarely ever look at what "good" lenses cost or that you will need a lens for certain enviroments (i.e. wide angle, mid range zoom, tele photo). A point and shoot will handle 85% of the "camera upgrades" and they will spend less money in the long run and still be able to produce great photos. Speedminded is a perfect example of using a point and shoot to its full potential. The photos he took with the p&s still blow away most of what is posted now days on here from people with DSLR's.

If you want to get a DSLR then fine. RESEARCH the cameras in your price range on your own (www.dpreview.com, www.photography-on-the.net, www.nikonians.com) and when you narrow it down to the few you think you want, then go hold them in a store and see which ones fit your hand the best, have the menu layouts you feel comfortable with, etc. Also research what lenses costs when you want to upgrade. Figure out what you are going to shoot. If you are going to be a "car photographer" and you shoot at night then a high FPS and high ISO is not going to be of a concern to you since you will be on a tripod.


I rarely shoot cars so I am not worried about the influx of "car photographers".

hits the nail on the head with this one.

[AirMax95]

I agree with the O.P., and A.P Photo. I ask DinanM3Atl all the time about what camera setup I should go with. I am not one of those guys who willk drop $800+ on a camera, then just "use" it to take random subpar pics. He linked me to a few websites that have more than enough information to start a hobby in photography.

I can see how DSLR cameras are a bandwagon trend, rather than "newer" technology. There are lots of people who will buy an expensive DSLR just to say they have one. Let them blow money on them! Personally, I want to buy one because I plan to make this a personal hobby. I want to spend for a good/decent setup once, perfect, and upgrade from there if I ever need to. My P&S that I got 3 years ago is cool, but I want more.

I borrowed my uncles Pentax SLR and went to the Santa run. Jamie was there with his baller ass camera, but took the time to give a noob a few pointers. I felt like a big ass kid, lol!

I think that some of you (or one) experienced photogs could make a sticky with the good links for information. All you can do from there is hope that people will have the brains to read it. Even better, make a sticky where you guys list what equipment you use and why. It's your call

[quickdodge®]

Fact is that a lot of high end point and shoots will deliver exactly what they need and will be more camera than they could ever want or be able to use.

This is me, right here. I use a Canon A540 (I know not high end), but it has most every feature a SLR has. Jaime has seen it and thought it was a badass PAS camera. It has a whole bunch of features that I don't mess with because it is too much for me. But it takes great pics and that's all I need. I'm not going to try to make money in photography so I don't see te need to spend $1,000+ on a camera just to have one. And that's why I think some of these folks are getting DSLRs. For bragging rights; to say they have one.

Below is a pic of my car taken by me (bottom pic) and by Puregroove (top pic). Although there is a big difference in pic quality, if I'm out just taking pics of my car (or even a group of friends' cars), then why do I need a $1,000 camera? The pic I took of my car shows everything just like Puregroove's pic. His is just a lot more precise and clear than mine. I'm just a picture taker, not a photographer. I spent $120 on my camera. That's all I need. Later, QD.

[Julio]

JM photography. don't hate..

[speedminded]

alright listen, i can empathize with you guys when all these little bastards are getting their first DSLR's and running around calling themselves bonafide photographers, but hold on a sec. Most of the "new camera" crew aren't going around claiming to be God's gift to picturetaking, but are rather just interested in picking up a new hobby and taking some pictures, and were most likely inspired to do so by looking at y'alls material.

I really don't understand why a lot of you guys (speedminded, AP, etc) are so up-in-arms about people wanting to buy a D40 and have at it. Its not a "bandwagon", and don't act like you started it - automotive photography is by no means a new entity, and you guys had to start somewhere too - AND you were inspired by someone else's work, I'm sure. You guys seem to feel so threatened and insulted by people just dicking around with their first SLRs... let your experience speak for itself in the picture quality.

I can see how the sheer volume of the "what camera should i get" type threads would get annoying, but why not collaborate and make an FAQ thread or something and link all these threads to it, and maybe even go into some basic technique and tips from you guys, the "pro"s. Help out a bit. With talent like Nemesis, Chang, SpeedMinded, DinanM3, A.P., etc etc, this section could be invaluable to new photographers to really learn the trade, but instead its just a big collective eyeroll from some of you guys and it honestly comes off as a bit pompous, though i doubt thats your intention.

It sounds like you just discovered owning a DSLR isn't what it's made out to be.

Feel free to remove my name since I've never once talked down to anyone owning an entry level DSLR, quote me if you have found otherwise. In case you forgot it wasn't that long ago I was still using point & shoot.

Nobody inspired me, individual photos I saw in magazines and online is what inspired me. I was still shooting with a point & shoot when Nemesis, AP, Jaime, etc. had DSLR's, 3 to 4+ years ago there were only a small handful of people producing quality car photos on here. As far a IA goes, THEY WERE the pioneers of automotive photography here and I am sure were an inspiration to many other members. I can't speak for them on who they were inspired by.

I don't recall ever using the term "bandwagon" for new DSLR owners but I will be glad to now. Yes owning a DSLR is jumping on the bandwagon for 90% of the people getting them. Only because someone else had one is why they got one, thinking there photos will be miraculously better, which leads to my only rants...


I've had 4 "rants" on this forum.

1) If you're buying a DSLR to shoot on auto then what is the point? Photos with a low to mid range point & shoot can look just as good as any consumer DSLR with a kit/generic lens, especially with cars. Every day I read it, "sorry the pictures are blurry, I need a better camera like a DSLR". No, they're blurry because someone was shooting 1/8" shutter speed hand held. People think they'll automatically have a better photo because they spent $400-1,000+ on a camera. A camera is just a tool, a disposable one at that, you just have to learn how to use it. A tripod and/or the time delay shutter is your friend, use it if you want crisp shots...whether it be with a P&S or DSLR. If you don't intend on investing in quality lenses then a point & shoot is the way to go.

2) Composition is something you have or you learn. No camera can make someones composition better. Rules are meant to be broken but the rule of 1/3rd's isn't always one of them. Be aware of your surroundings, background, foreground, etc. Power poles sticking out of the roof of a car is a distraction. Shooting through a fence with the car blurry in the background is not artistic, it's a picture of a fence.

3) HDR is not adjusting the levels or lighting & shadows. HDR does not look like a vector image that's been painted with Illustrator. HDR is a way to combine multiple shots to create a photo you couldn't normally take otherwise. It looks realistic like any normal photograph. I bet most people see HDR images everyday and don't even realize it only because the white areas don't look like toasted marshmallows.

4) A photo shoot only pertains to commercial advertising and fashion photography. Pictures of cars are snap shots, doesn't matter if it's a $200 or a $15,000 camera setup they are still snap shots. If you shoot a car for a newspaper or newsletter it's an editorial shoot. If you shoot a car for print advertisement advertising a product then it's a photo shoot. Shooting your gf isn't a photoshoot any more than a 4 year old blowing out their birthday candles, shooting your gf for a comp card is.

[WickedIXMR]

What it comes down to is this, it is a bandwagon trend. With the intro of entry level DSLR's people automatically think that a new camera will result in better photos. Fact is that a lot of high end point and shoots will deliver exactly what they need and will be more camera than they could ever want or be able to use.

It seems that every new "Help me choose a camera thread" that pops up is about which DSLR to get. Fact of the matter is that they rarely ever look at what "good" lenses cost or that you will need a lens for certain enviroments (i.e. wide angle, mid range zoom, tele photo). A point and shoot will handle 85% of the "camera upgrades" and they will spend less money in the long run and still be able to produce great photos. Speedminded is a perfect example of using a point and shoot to its full potential. The photos he took with the p&s still blow away most of what is posted now days on here from people with DSLR's.

If you want to get a DSLR then fine. RESEARCH the cameras in your price range on your own (www.dpreview.com, www.photography-on-the.net, www.nikonians.com) and when you narrow it down to the few you think you want, then go hold them in a store and see which ones fit your hand the best, have the menu layouts you feel comfortable with, etc. Also research what lenses costs when you want to upgrade. Figure out what you are going to shoot. If you are going to be a "car photographer" and you shoot at night then a high FPS and high ISO is not going to be of a concern to you since you will be on a tripod.


I rarely shoot cars so I am not worried about the influx of "car photographers".

I hope I'm not one of the guys jumping on the bandwagon

[james]

1) If you're buying a DSLR to shoot on auto then what is the point? Photos with a low to mid range point & shoot can look just as good as any consumer DSLR with a kit/generic lens, especially with cars. Every day I read it, "sorry the pictures are blurry, I need a better camera like a DSLR". No, they're blurry because someone was shooting 1/8" shutter speed hand held. People think they'll automatically have a better photo because they spent $400-1,000+ on a camera. A camera is just a tool, a disposable one at that, you just have to learn how to use it. A tripod and/or the time delay shutter is your friend, use it if you want crisp shots...whether it be with a P&S or DSLR. If you don't intend on investing in quality lenses then a point & shoot is the way to go.

yeah seriously....auto =

[Maniacc]

...ok.

Okay is fucking right. You ain't got shit to say...

Also, I'm fucking gonna buy a DSLR and start my own watermark and website just so all of you can call me a bandwagon jumper. All the kewl kids are doing it, might as well go out in style.

Fuckin weak ass rant.

[Dirty Octopus™]

P&S done deal

[james]

this thread is obviously going nowhere.

it is not even worthing stickying some kind of FAQ if you ask me.

noobs are noobs. and the noobs around here don't want to learn anything. they shoot on auto or program and learn nothing from it. then they ask for comments and critique and get all pissed off when the comments and critiques aren't positive remarks.

go get a book. read stuff. check out websites (IA is hardly a photography site.) join a fuckign photography forum.

it amazes me that people would rather spend 150 dollars on a fucking seminar than get a 20 dollar book and experiment on their own.

thats all i want to say. everything else i think has been said.

[quickdodge®]

P&S done deal

You need to show me how to do that, man. Seriously. Later, QD.

[osnap]

AP - well said and I understand your perspective.

It sounds like you just discovered owning a DSLR isn't what it's made out to be.

er... wha? No, not at all. I happen to have just gotten a D40 for Christmas, yes, but nobody has ever aimed any comments like these at me, and I've actually been quite pleased with my pictures so far, most of which have been taken in modes other than AUTO.

Feel free to remove my name since I've never once talked down to anyone owning an entry level DSLR, quote me if you have found otherwise. In case you forgot it wasn't that long ago I was still using point & shoot.

im not accusing anyone of talking down to anyone, relax. And im not even talking about low-end SLRs specifically, just people getting SLRs in general.

...And fair enough, I haven't seen you directly saying these things, I just thought I'd seen you associated with some of the threads im talking about. to be fair i havent paid THAT much attention to it, and this wasn't meant to be like a callout at you or anyone in particular, dont get all up in arms about it.

Nobody inspired me, individual photos I saw in magazines and online is what inspired me. I was still shooting with a point & shoot when Nemesis, AP, Jaime, etc. had DSLR's, 3 to 4+ years ago there were only a small handful of people producing quality car photos on here. As far a IA goes, THEY WERE the pioneers of automotive photography here and I am sure were an inspiration to many other members. I can't speak for them on who they were inspired by.

uh... i said you were inspired by other peoples work. and those individual photos in magazines and online? those were taken by other people... so i dont think my comment was inaccurate or unfair.

I don't recall ever using the term "bandwagon" for new DSLR owners but I will be glad to now. Yes owning a DSLR is jumping on the bandwagon for 90% of the people getting them. Only because someone else had one is why they got one, thinking there photos will be miraculously better

yeah, if thats someone's initiative, then sure, bandwagon is a valid term. but 90%, really? cmon, a good few of these people have got to be legitimately interested. My father owned a studio for 10 years and has been shooting for decades... I've always had the itch, and now I finally have a means of trying my hand.

I've had 4 "rants" on this forum.

Honestly I agree with all of these.

it is not even worthing stickying some kind of FAQ if you ask me.

noobs are noobs. and the noobs around here don't want to learn anything. they shoot on auto or program and learn nothing from it. then they ask for comments and critique and get all pissed off when the comments and critiques aren't positive remarks.

go get a book. read stuff. check out websites (IA is hardly a photography site.) join a fuckign photography forum.

it amazes me that people would rather spend 150 dollars on a fucking seminar than get a 20 dollar book and experiment on their own.

i mean frankly i agree, im just saying that rather than griping about threads like that, an FAQ would be a nice way of countering it and I'm sure could be a rich resource for some on here. I've done a fair amount of reading and photography forum browsing, but some may not know where to start, and im sure there are some on here who would appreciate the help from the locals whose photos they already know and appreciate. honestly i personally dont really care, i was just kinda throwing an idea out there.

Okay is fucking right. You ain't got shit to say...

Also, I'm fucking gonna buy a DSLR and start my own watermark and website just so all of you can call me a bandwagon jumper. All the kewl kids are doing it, might as well go out in style.

Fuckin weak ass rant.

...alright, congrats, your e-penis is clearly substantially larger than mine. what exactly is it that youd like me to say?

[IMPORTchic]

I lol'ed at this whole thread. No one in particular. I know nothing really about the whole photography end of things so not going to try and act like I do....
All I do know is it does seem that everyone is trying to go out and buy "decent" DSLR and get in with what everyone else is doing as far as photography. Gotta start somewhere though I guess. The question is who is actually going to show their true talent and take it to the next level, or who is just going to stick to the basics and not try.......and just whine about it when they get shot down on IA.

[boostedb16]

It sounds like you just discovered owning a DSLR isn't what it's made out to be.

Feel free to remove my name since I've never once talked down to anyone owning an entry level DSLR, quote me if you have found otherwise. In case you forgot it wasn't that long ago I was still using point & shoot.

Nobody inspired me, individual photos I saw in magazines and online is what inspired me. I was still shooting with a point & shoot when Nemesis, AP, Jaime, etc. had DSLR's, 3 to 4+ years ago there were only a small handful of people producing quality car photos on here. As far a IA goes, THEY WERE the pioneers of automotive photography here and I am sure were an inspiration to many other members. I can't speak for them on who they were inspired by.

I don't recall ever using the term "bandwagon" for new DSLR owners but I will be glad to now. Yes owning a DSLR is jumping on the bandwagon for 90% of the people getting them. Only because someone else had one is why they got one, thinking there photos will be miraculously better, which leads to my only rants...


I've had 4 "rants" on this forum.

1) If you're buying a DSLR to shoot on auto then what is the point? Photos with a low to mid range point & shoot can look just as good as any consumer DSLR with a kit/generic lens, especially with cars. Every day I read it, "sorry the pictures are blurry, I need a better camera like a DSLR". No, they're blurry because someone was shooting 1/8" shutter speed hand held. People think they'll automatically have a better photo because they spent $400-1,000+ on a camera. A camera is just a tool, a disposable one at that, you just have to learn how to use it. A tripod and/or the time delay shutter is your friend, use it if you want crisp shots...whether it be with a P&S or DSLR. If you don't intend on investing in quality lenses then a point & shoot is the way to go.

2) Composition is something you have or you learn. No camera can make someones composition better. Rules are meant to be broken but the rule of 1/3rd's isn't always one of them. Be aware of your surroundings, background, foreground, etc. Power poles sticking out of the roof of a car is a distraction. Shooting through a fence with the car blurry in the background is not artistic, it's a picture of a fence.

3) HDR is not adjusting the levels or lighting & shadows. HDR does not look like a vector image that's been painted with Illustrator. HDR is a way to combine multiple shots to create a photo you couldn't normally take otherwise. It looks realistic like any normal photograph. I bet most people see HDR images everyday and don't even realize it only because the white areas don't look like toasted marshmallows.

4) A photo shoot only pertains to commercial advertising and fashion photography. Pictures of cars are snap shots, doesn't matter if it's a $200 or a $15,000 camera setup they are still snap shots. If you shoot a car for a newspaper or newsletter it's an editorial shoot. If you shoot a car for print advertisement advertising a product then it's a photo shoot. Shooting your gf isn't a photoshoot any more than a 4 year old blowing out their birthday candles, shooting your gf for a comp card is.

i agree with the auto setting. my wife wanted a d40 and i bought her one. all she used was the auto setting. i tried to explain that her camera could do so much more. i ended up using it more than she did. if all your going to use is auto then your wasting your money.

[speedminded]

im not accusing anyone of talking down to anyone, relax. And im not even talking about low-end SLRs specifically, just people getting SLRs in general.

...And fair enough, I haven't seen you directly saying these things, I just thought I'd seen you associated with some of the threads im talking about. to be fair i havent paid THAT much attention to it, and this wasn't meant to be like a callout at you or anyone in particular, dont get all up in arms about it.

I really don't understand why a lot of you guys (speedminded, AP, etc) are so up-in-arms about people wanting to buy a D40 and have at it. Its not a "bandwagon", and don't act like you started it - automotive photography is by no means a new entity, and you guys had to start somewhere too - AND you were inspired by someone else's work, I'm sure. You guys seem to feel so threatened and insulted by people just dicking around with their first SLRs... let your experience speak for itself in the picture quality.

Where have I acted like or said I feel threatened? It's not my money so I could care less.

If someone wants to get into photography i've always suggested they start shooting with a point & shoot with manual modes. A point and shoot half the price of a entry DSLR will shoots cars and landscape just as well or better than a entry level to higher end consumer DSLR. If you want to shoot people you can get a point & shoot with a hot shoe for a flash and still be at half the price of an entry level DSLR and a flash. Using a onboard pop-up flash on a DSLR produces no better photos than any mid level point & shoot on portrait mode.


Reasons for getting a point and shoot and learning the basics first:

1) Composition is composition, doesn't matter what camera is used. Work on that then work on quality or being capable of larger prints. Most point & shoots have such high megapixels you can still do large prints. I've done 18x22 prints with a 5.0mp point & shoot before and turned out fine.

2) Getting a point & shoots still allows you to learn how to shoot manually.

3) If you want to pursue photography beyond that you have a backup camera. I see cars and random stuff driving down the road all the time, there is no possible way for me to simply pull my DSLR out of my camera bag and take a shot within seconds like I could with my Sony's, especially if I want to zoom.

4) Big camera's get you attention & harassment, whether positive or negative. If you don't have the experience to talk your way out of something then you can easily get knee deep in something you don't want to be involved with. Nobody thinks twice about people using a point & shoot, they aren't threatened by being around them.

[uproot]

^i agree with you jason, learning on a P&S is a must. and I mean pushing it to its limits...

[EJ_Allmota]

If someone wants to get into photography i've always suggested they start shooting with a point & shoot with manual modes. A point and shoot half the price of a entry DSLR will shoots cars and landscape just as well or better than a entry level to higher end consumer DSLR. If you want to shoot people you can get a point & shoot with a hot shoe for a flash and still be at half the price of an entry level DSLR and a flash. Using a onboard pop-up flash on a DSLR produces no better photos than any mid level point & shoot on portrait mode.


Reasons for getting a point and shoot and learning the basics first:

1) Composition is composition, doesn't matter what camera is used. Work on that then work on quality or being capable of larger prints. Most point & shoots have such high megapixels you can still do large prints. I've done 18x22 prints with a 5.0mp point & shoot before and turned out fine.

2) Getting a point & shoots still allows you to learn how to shoot manually.

3) If you want to pursue photography beyond that you have a backup camera. I see cars and random stuff driving down the road all the time, there is no possible way for me to simply pull my DSLR out of my camera bag and take a shot within seconds like I could with my Sony's, especially if I want to zoom.

4) Big camera's get you attention & harassment, whether positive or negative. If you don't have the experience to talk your way out of something then you can easily get knee deep in something you don't want to be involved with. Nobody thinks twice about people using a point & shoot, they aren't threatened by being around them.

QFT

[Maniacc]

what exactly is it that youd like me to say?

Post up the usernames of the people who are going around actin' like photographers.



Call 'em out.

[Jaimecbr900]

I think that some of you (or one) experienced photogs could make a sticky with the good links for information. All you can do from there is hope that people will have the brains to read it. Even better, make a sticky where you guys list what equipment you use and why. It's your call

That's actually not a bad idea actually.

[OG-Skinny]

"The equipment is only as good as the user."

[Alan®]

Where have I acted like or said I feel threatened? It's not my money so I could care less.

If someone wants to get into photography i've always suggested they start shooting with a point & shoot with manual modes. A point and shoot half the price of a entry DSLR will shoots cars and landscape just as well or better than a entry level to higher end consumer DSLR. If you want to shoot people you can get a point & shoot with a hot shoe for a flash and still be at half the price of an entry level DSLR and a flash. Using a onboard pop-up flash on a DSLR produces no better photos than any mid level point & shoot on portrait mode.


Reasons for getting a point and shoot and learning the basics first:

1) Composition is composition, doesn't matter what camera is used. Work on that then work on quality or being capable of larger prints. Most point & shoots have such high megapixels you can still do large prints. I've done 18x22 prints with a 5.0mp point & shoot before and turned out fine.

2) Getting a point & shoots still allows you to learn how to shoot manually.

3) If you want to pursue photography beyond that you have a backup camera. I see cars and random stuff driving down the road all the time, there is no possible way for me to simply pull my DSLR out of my camera bag and take a shot within seconds like I could with my Sony's, especially if I want to zoom.

4) Big camera's get you attention & harassment, whether positive or negative. If you don't have the experience to talk your way out of something then you can easily get knee deep in something you don't want to be involved with. Nobody thinks twice about people using a point & shoot, they aren't threatened by being around them.

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said in this thread in one way or another. I got into photography because I got tired of not going to meets because of my car. I'm shooting with a Panasonic DMC-FZ30 and its nothing a but a P&S with a SLR style body.

Everything that speedminded has said in this post. and to prove it here are a few examples.

These are from the first time I started shooting



Among the million things wrong with these shots, there is also the fact that composition is largely lacking, subject isnt very interesting, . So I decided to educate myself by using that photography forum that chad posts up all the time. And I have to say it's incredibly informative.I still havent read everything but there are 40+ pages of information in a word document on my computer and the only thing I have actually sat down and read was the article on composition. With that said, here are some shots from Hawaii that I took.




With just the new information that I had on composition and a few other things that I had realized about the way I was shooting, I feel I was able to make significant improvements. The shots are damn near crystal clear, they are interesting, the composition is MUCH better.

The problem I feel with most people jumping into this is that they don't take the time to go out and actually educate themselves. They figure its just like anything else technology related. They feel they can go out plunk some money on a SLR and be able to take AMAZING shots. But the truth of the matter is that it isn't. While like anything else having good gear always helps you still need to be able to know how to handle it. Let me put it this way. Having a 8 second supra is great. But if you don't know how to launch it and get it down the track the way it should be done will mean you will consistently run 9's or 10's or crash and burn.

[DinanM3atl]

Geesh.

My opinion on the matter

On the side of the 'new photographers' I welcome them. It is entertaining for me to attempt to provide help and guidance to them. Hopefully they will catch on and improve. With that being said most get frustrated and fall to the wayside and end up selling the camera when they want a set of wheels. The true photogs will be born our of those newbs. So why worry about it?

Let them get their new cameras and sell them. Canon and Nikon still made their money and it let them know people still want to buy them so keep making them! There have been more times than I remember that producing high quality photos for a client or someone here or there has netted me some extra 'income'. You will shine above the 'competition' and I would hope that no one is just worried that someone is going to pass them. Having more and more subpar photogs just makes me wait and lust for photos from you that much more

[changaroo]

I think what needed to be said has been already said. I dont know where you are getting the whole some photographers are coming off as elitist, but I dont think it is anyones intention to be like that.

Honestly, 99% of the ones I've talked to are really down to earth and are more than likely willing to help you out. But please understand that when the same question arises over and over, whether it is one of the "what camera should i get" threads or something along those lines, it really does get old.

Please dont confuse getting help with getting spoon fed. I've had PM's of people asking me exactly what settings / gear / PP techniques I used, and expected me to give them step by step instructions on how to replicate my photos. I gave them as much info was in the exif and let it be. That would be like me asking your grandma for her secret chocolate chip cookie recipe, or your signature sex move in bed... both big no no's.

With that being said... google is a great resource. You can find almost anything you need / want to know on there. Thats where I learned most of my stuff. Just sit there and play around. Theres no magic formula to photography.

[CHADbee]

im one of the n00bs but i still have an asshole, er, i mean opinion on this, everybody was a n00b once and 2 things happen, they get better or quit. the ones that quit or lose interest really didnt have a passion for it anyways. the ones that get better do nothing but push people to better their skills or be left behind.

while everybody is ranting let me get something out, taking a photo that has bad composition and lighting and running it through a program to make it look fake and HDR-ish does not fawking make it a good picture, your not going to save it. yes, IA might go "oooh ahhhh" but it still sucks. also if your a photographer i hope your on some real photography forums cause i have seen some people only post their photos here to get the "nice photos dude" comments, which dont do jack shit for you. most of the photographers on this forum, me included suck and if we dont have people critiquing our pictures they will stay sucking. if you hear nothing but "nice pictures man" you have no reason to progress and then whats the point? it could just be me but i dont see the point in doing something unless i can progress and get better at it.

i suck, you suck, lets get better instead of doing the same fucking thing.

[DeutscheBAG!]

[CHADbee]

notice the white duck is shooting canon

[A.P. Photography]

Ok, let me say that there are some noobs on here that actually have an interest and want to get into photography. I have no problem with any of you doing this and I will give feedback and help when warranted. I am very blunt when it comes to feedback but that is what helps you get better. When I started shooting, I posted my photos on the big photog forums and got ripped apart. A shot I thought was great and well executed, they tore apart like a fat woman at an all you can eat buffet. So it was either get better or sell the gear. I didn't get upset but took what they told me and pushed myself to get better.

It takes time to devlop your skill and style. Remeber this, "You can't just jump in the ring with Ali cause you think you can box?" Same thing with photography, you can't just jump in with a camera and expect perfect images, it takes time and training.


Hey Chad, that white duck must have been a Pron photographer.

[DinanM3atl]

I post on a photo forum for C&C if I think I got a really exceptional photo Then I hear that it is not so exceptional...

roflmao



As Mr.A.P. just said... getting torn apart is part of the game. You either man up and learn and become better or sell the gear and quit.


On top of that it is asked OVER AND OVER about how did you edit it. What settings did you use. That is a rant all in its own.

No one is going to simply spoon feed you a DIY On how to get this 'feel' or that 'feel. It is a STYLE. As I have said before you can look at a photo and say "Jason took that" or "Chang took that" or "Halston took that...damn it sucks hard". That is what I think you want to go for. Your style means it is your niche.

Learn to read the exif data and what it means. You can answer your own question before you even ask.

[A.P. Photography]

I have heard that a ton before. lol

[DinanM3atl]

notice the white duck is shooting canon

And notice the awesome shot he must have just gotten while busting someone for cheating.

[Jaimecbr900]

Based on the idea that Airmax posted on here, I'm going to start a reference thread where we can all share ideas and tips on how to shoot better pictures. Notice I said PICTURES, and NOT "photoshoot" or advocating DSLR vs P&S.

I'm going to dig up some of the books I've read and liked. I've got literally a mini-library of books and magazines that helped me realize the nuts and bolts of things. It does NOT tell you how to reproduce someone's work, as Changaroo stated. It does teach you techniques and more importantly theories/reasoning behind some shots. The Ansel Adams quote is exactly right, but HOW do YOU know WHERE to stand????? By reading and practicing. No other way around it. Just like weight loss, there is no real magic pill. People always telling everyone "great pics" to get some pos reps is a false sense of security. Much like actually PLAYING Golf, which for some reason people think is "easy", posting your work on an actual photography site is a humbling experience. You'll either pack up your equipment and sell it or get better. No real in-between. You have to have thick skin because they will tear down even pics you thought were great. I personally don't totally agree with that approach myself, but it does work for some.

I'll leave everyone with this:

You don't just walk into a Hospital or Police station and start using lingo or phrases you HEARD on some TV show and think YOU are somehow at their same level simply because you TALK like them. Right?

This is why some people take offense to trendy people who have no idea what comes out of their mouth any more than the guy that walks into the Hospital thinking he's a Surgeon because he watches Grey's Anatomy on TV.

[A.P. Photography]

Great idea Jaime. Also include some of the bigger websites like www.photography-on-the.net and the Nikon one www.nikonians.org as they have some very valuable info on them.

[DinanM3atl]

Wait I thought Nikon's site was www.noinks.com